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Thread: Luck vs Griffin - let it begin.

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    Default Re: Luck vs Griffin - let it begin.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kid Minneapolis View Post
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    Weird, I think the same thing about you!
    That is very wierd. Perhaps you need to see a doctor??? I worry about your health....

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    Default Re: Luck vs Griffin - let it begin.

    Here is a pretty good article from the NY Times website that sums it up pretty well for me. Luck has been fantastic, IMO.

    http://fifthdown.blogs.nytimes.com/2...al-comparison/

    "Luck has thrown only 11 percent of his passes at or behind the line of scrimmage, while Griffin is in an offense that has let him throw 44 passes at or behind the line, accounting for 23 percent of his attempts."

    "Luck‘s average pass attempt has traveled 10.2 yards past the line of scrimmage, the longest average pass distance in the league (this was before “Monday Night Football”; Jay Cutler was second at 9.9 entering the game). Griffin averages 7.9 yards down field per pass attempt, slightly below the league average of 8.2."

    "And Luck’s long average pass distance isn’t simply a product of throwing lots of incomplete passes down the field. His average pass distance on completions is 8.6 yards past the line of scrimmage, also highest in the N.F.L. (Cutler was fourth at 8.3 entering Monday night). Griffin’s completions come an average of 5.8 yards from the line of scrimmage, well below the league average of 6.5."

    "Colts running backs have been targeted on just 7 percent of all Indianapolis passes, the lowest mark in the league. Conversely, Colts receivers have been targeted on 72 percent of Indianapolis attempts, the highest mark in the N.F.L."

    "In the same vein, much of Griffin’s production has come via yards after the catch. On average, passers in 2012 have gained 56 percent of their yards through the air and 44 percent on yards after the catch by their receivers. For Griffin, 51.4 percent of his yards have come via his receivers after the catch, the fifth-highest mark in the league. Luck, in large part because of his downfield passing, has gained 68.9 percent of his yards through the air, the highest percentage in the league, and therefore has been helped the least in terms of yards after the catch."

    Here is some interesting info on their running ability.......

    "Luck has only 18 true carries this season, with 2 of his 20 carries coming on kneel-downs. Luck doesn’t run very often, choosing his spots carefully. Despite only 18 true rushes, Luck has 10 first-down runs on scrambles, most in the league (Griffin and Michael Vick each have nine). Seven of those 10 have come on third down; no other quarterback more than 4 scrambles for 1st downs on 3rd down this year. Over all, 12 of his 18 runs have gone for first downs, while Griffin has gained first downs on only 41 percent of his 61 runs (excluding kneel-downs)."

    And this is their summary of the two......

    Conclusion

    "Both Andrew Luck and Robert Griffin III have been excellent this year, but only Griffin looks great when examining traditional metrics. The above analysis isn’t intended to denigrate Griffin; if anything, it should raise questions about why the coaches in Indianapolis are making things so difficult for Luck. He has being asked to throw more deep passes and has made fewer check downs than just about any quarterback in the league, despite an extremely inexperienced set of targets after Reggie Wayne. He has also being asked to throw the ball frequently — he ranks third in pass attempts per game, the cost of doing business when paired with a below-average defense and an anemic running game. As a result, his completion percentage and yards per attempt averages are underwhelming, but it’s tough to say how well Griffin would do if the players switched teams. Griffin may have the highlight reel runs and the showy statistics, but Luck has arguably been even more impressive under considerably more challenging circumstances."

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    Default Re: Luck vs Griffin - let it begin.

    I can't believe this is being allowed to go on here....

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    Default Re: Luck vs Griffin - let it begin.

    Quote Originally Posted by ilive4sports View Post
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    I can't believe this is being allowed to go on here....
    What, exactly is going on here? I am a disenchanted Colts fan who doesn't care much for Andrew Luck. Learn to live with it, there are going to be lots more like me.... Take your censorship talk somewhere else....

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    Default Re: Luck vs Griffin - let it begin.

    [QUOTE=Taterhead;1514232]Here is a pretty good article from the NY Times website that sums it up pretty well for me. Luck has been fantastic, IMO.

    http://fifthdown.blogs.nytimes.com/2...al-comparison/

    "Luck has thrown only 11 percent of his passes at or behind the line of scrimmage, while Griffin is in an offense that has let him throw 44 passes at or behind the line, accounting for 23 percent of his attempts."

    Don't all passes have to be made at or behind the line of scrimmage? What game are you playing?

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    Default Re: Luck vs Griffin - let it begin.

    That is where the pass landed blu.

    RGIII throws the shortest passes in the league, hence the gaudy %.

    Luck throws the longest passes in the league, hence the subpar %.

    It is really pretty easy stuff.

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    Default Re: Luck vs Griffin - let it begin.

    Quote Originally Posted by Taterhead View Post
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    That is where the pass landed blu.

    RGIII throws the shortest passes in the league, hence the gaudy %.

    Luck throws the longest passes in the league, hence the subpar %.

    It is really pretty easy stuff.

    Silliness........ How about he just isn't a very good QB. If what you say is true, why isn't the coaching staff giving him other options to be more efficient? Could it be because they know it wouldn't make any difference......

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    Default Re: Luck vs Griffin - let it begin.

    Quote Originally Posted by ilive4sports View Post
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    I can't believe this is being allowed to go on here....
    Yep. I was told a couple weeks back they had their eye on him. Yeah obviously. All he's done since I was told that was get caught making up lies to support his "facts", accuse people who don't like RGIII of being racist, claim he's waiting on the Colts owner to croak, bash Dale Davis for no reason, out himself as a non Colts fan, and basically do everything he can to disrupt the forum.

    I was told to stop responding to him and to stop "backseat moderating". I tell you what guys, as soon as I see a little FRONT SEAT MODERATING, I'll stop.
    Last edited by travmil; 10-24-2012 at 05:49 PM.

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    Default Re: Luck vs Griffin - let it begin.

    Quote Originally Posted by OlBlu View Post
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    Silliness........ How about he just isn't a very good QB. If what you say is true, why isn't the coaching staff giving him other options to be more efficient? Could it be because they know it wouldn't make any difference......
    RG3 pretty much runs the same exact offense he ran at Baylor besides the bombs. He throws screen passes all day. He doesn't throw deep balls ever. Luck does and completes the majority of them.
    Smothered Chicken!

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    Default Re: Luck vs Griffin - let it begin.

    What?

    It is true blu. Those numbers from the article are easily verifiable facts.

    Bruce Arians offense is very difficult for a rookie QB. There are these things called routes, and the type of route determines the difficulty of the throw. Tossing it to a RB out of the backfield is a lot different than a 15 yard out, or a post. The reads are harder, the throw is harder, the pass rush has more time to get to you, etc.

    And the fact that they are ALLOWING him to throw those passes says the opposite of what you claim.

    Luck is our only chance to win a game. That tells me he is pretty good.

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    Default Re: Luck vs Griffin - let it begin.

    Quote Originally Posted by travmil View Post
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    Yep. I was told a couple weeks back they had their eye on him. Yeah obviously. All he's done since I was told that was get caught making up lies to support his "facts", accuse people who don't like RGIII of being racist, claim he's waiting on the Colts owner to croak, bash Dale Davis for no reason, out himself as a non Colts fan, lie about his location, and basically do everything he can to disrupt the forum.

    I was told to stop responding to him and to stop "backseat moderating". I tell you what guys, as soon as I see a little FRONT SEAT MODERATING, I'll stop.
    If he takes his show over to the main forum, he will get castrated.

    The issue is that this is PacersDigest and many here are only Pacer fans. The Colts forum does deserve some moderation though. Maybe they'll give you or some of the others a deputy badge for this forum. OlBlu wouldn't last a day.

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    Default Re: Luck vs Griffin - let it begin.

    LOL no there won't be a deputy badge. I know that. It's obvious at this point they don't want him gone, so I doubt if they would give anyone anything like that when the first thing that would happen is their pet troll getting hit with a 2 ton ban hammer.

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    Default Re: Luck vs Griffin - let it begin.

    Quote Originally Posted by OlBlu View Post
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    Silliness........ How about he just isn't a very good QB. If what you say is true, why isn't the coaching staff giving him other options to be more efficient? Could it be because they know it wouldn't make any difference......
    You know, it's one thing to post articles/stats to try and support your argument but if this weak **** is all you have then just do everyone and yourself a favor and leave the board.


    But before you leave, please share with us how you are able to drive an RV all around the country but still manage to make dozens of posts each day for week after week. I've wondered about that for awhile.

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    Default Re: Luck vs Griffin - let it begin.

    Please don't ban oldblu, some of us enjoy coming here and arguing with "idiots" or "trolls" or whatever. It makes us feel smart. Besides, This board gets a little too damn friendly sometimes and it's hard to get a descent discussion going.

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  23. #840
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    Default Re: Luck vs Griffin - let it begin.

    Quote Originally Posted by LuckSwagger View Post
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    You know, it's one thing to post articles/stats to try and support your argument but if this weak **** is all you have then just do everyone and yourself a favor and leave the board.


    But before you leave, please share with us how you are able to drive an RV all around the country but still manage to make dozens of posts each day for week after week. I've wondered about that for awhile.
    The work that I do usually requires actual work of 4.5 to 6 hours per week making a presentation and interview to see if a prospect and my company is a good fit. Now, sometimes I travel 1500 miles to see these people I park the RV in the middle of an area where I am scheduled to work and then I drive the Jeep Commander that I pull behind the RV to go and see them. I am currently in the Washington D.C. area and I will run appointments from Pittsburgh, PA to Dover Delaware and down to the NC border. I have an appointment in Maryland tomorrow (close to Annapolis) and Friday, I will be in Virgnina Beach, VA. I will have the weekend off (I usually do my big traveling then) as we continue to see people in this area. I think you will see that I average 6.5 posts per day or so. More when I am off. Sometimes I can't get on for three or four days if I am running appointments and covering lots of miles. I have been in 32 states in the last year from Seattle to Miami. I have no intention of leaving the board and I post lots of stats to back up what I say. You can always find another set of stats that contradict any set of stats. That is the voodoo in stats... I don't see how it is weak to suggest that the coaching staff (that has already cost the Colts one game and just about did another) to find shorter release points for him to make him more efficient if they believe that would work. I don't believe it would because he over throws, underthrows and routinely throws behind receivers. I think he will do that at any distance but that is just me.....

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    Default Re: Luck vs Griffin - let it begin.

    Quote Originally Posted by Taterhead View Post
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    Please don't ban oldblu, some of us enjoy coming here and arguing with "idiots" or "trolls" or whatever. It makes us feel smart. Besides, This board gets a little too damn friendly sometimes and it's hard to get a descent discussion going.
    We all have a place in keeping the forum active and interesting..... I just don't call people idiots and trolls even though I think they are exactly that..... I am a nice guy.... I am just disenchanted about this Colts team and management. I am afraid they set it up so that I can really not be a Luck fan. But, this too shall pass when they are gone in three or four years and we move on to the next "most NFL ready player in NFL history."

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    Default Re: Luck vs Griffin - let it begin.

    Quote Originally Posted by travmil View Post
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    LOL no there won't be a deputy badge. I know that. It's obvious at this point they don't want him gone, so I doubt if they would give anyone anything like that when the first thing that would happen is their pet troll getting hit with a 2 ton ban hammer.
    Calling names again? Haven't you been talked to about that? Oh, well, call all the names you want, you won't bait me into doing that....

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    Default Re: Luck vs Griffin - let it begin.

    Is there anyone in the media or the pro football landscape calling Luck a bust or his performance disappointing? All I've heard are accolades. Not just from the Colts' front office, coaches, or players either. Fox and CBS game commentators have gushed about him.
    Nuntius was right. I was wrong. Frank Vogel has retained his job.

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    Default Re: Luck vs Griffin - let it begin.

    Quote Originally Posted by Coopdog23 View Post
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    RG3 pretty much runs the same exact offense he ran at Baylor besides the bombs. He throws screen passes all day. He doesn't throw deep balls ever. Luck does and completes the majority of them.
    If he completed the majority of them, his completion percentage would be better than 53%.

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    Default Re: Luck vs Griffin - let it begin.

    Quote Originally Posted by travmil View Post
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    Yep. I was told a couple weeks back they had their eye on him. Yeah obviously. All he's done since I was told that was get caught making up lies to support his "facts", accuse people who don't like RGIII of being racist, claim he's waiting on the Colts owner to croak, bash Dale Davis for no reason, out himself as a non Colts fan, and basically do everything he can to disrupt the forum.

    I was told to stop responding to him and to stop "backseat moderating". I tell you what guys, as soon as I see a little FRONT SEAT MODERATING, I'll stop.
    I have never called anyone who didn't like RGIII of being a racist. I did ask if ONE post had racial overtones or if it was just me. I got an answer from Trader Joe telling me that I was wrong and I thanked him and dropped it. I know I am oversensitive to racism because when I was in college I joined in civil rights marches in several areas. So, what you just said is a lie.

    I haven't made up any lies. I was wrong about a site I found in Washington talking about coming to this forum. I thought they did, it was another Colts forum in Indy. I have been waiting for Jim Irsay to croak ever since he took over the team. He is a drug addict, liar and a general nincumpoop who has no idea how to run this team. He gave up control to the Polians and they drafted Peyton and made us winners. Look at Irsay's record before that. It was a horrible thing to watch. I didn't bash Dale Davis for no reason, I said that he wasn't good enough to coach our big men and that he had no offensive game when he played. A correct statement. The Davis boys may be Hoosier legends but in reality they were roles players who were not that great. Good, but not great. I have never said I was not a Colts fan and I have been for 50+ years long before they came to Indy. I am disenchanted with the current version of the team and its management. I have done nothing to disrupt the forum and if you don't like what I have to say, put me on ignore. You seem to refuse to do that. It looks to me like you were warned. I would listen to the moderators if I were you. I try my best to do so. Now as to your little diatribe on guidelines, I have not been belligerent, hostile or rude although I would think you are guilty of all of those things but I am not a moderator and I can take care of myself. I discuss without taking shots with anyone and I don't have an "attitude" nor am I unpleasant. I take lots of crap with good nature and just point out reasons for my positions. Once again, in my opinion, you do all of those things but I haven't asked the mods to ban you or even complained to them at all about your attacks... Grow up and lets get along. Try saying something intelligent about the Colts or Pacers and I will agree with you, I am sure......

  29. #846

    Default Re: Luck vs Griffin - let it begin.

    here is what I have to say to Ol'blue, The Colts let go of Manning, they got Andrew Luck, so forget about Manning you don't need to sit here and hate on Luck because you can't get over your crush on Manning, even Manning knows that the Colts drafted a great QB in Luck with a high upside, do you think Manning would want his biggest fans back in Indy to sit here and hate on everything Luck does because he replaced Manning? It is good that you like Manning and its not a bad thing that you miss him, it shows you were a dedicated fan when he was here, but sitting here and hating on everything Luck does even though he has played pretty well this year is just plain stupid, and if you are that hurt by the Colts getting rid of Manning then you should not call yourself a Colts fan.
    Last edited by BlueCollarColts; 10-24-2012 at 06:47 PM.

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  31. #847
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    Default Re: Luck vs Griffin - let it begin.

    Quote Originally Posted by OlBlu View Post
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    If he completed the majority of them, his completion percentage would be better than 53%.
    53% would be a majority....
    Nuntius was right. I was wrong. Frank Vogel has retained his job.

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    Default Re: Luck vs Griffin - let it begin.

    Quote Originally Posted by OlBlu View Post
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    What, exactly is going on here? I am a disenchanted Colts fan who doesn't care much for Andrew Luck. Learn to live with it, there are going to be lots more like me.... Take your censorship talk somewhere else....
    Gimme a heads up on the next name you pick out.

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    Default Re: Luck vs Griffin - let it begin.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bball View Post
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    53% would be a majority....
    Ha, ha.... yes, it is...... It is also a lousy percentage and he is currently 32nd among NFL QBs. Only Sanchez is rated below him and it my a fraction of a point. I think there is a great chance that Luck ends the season as the NFL QB with the lowest completion percentage. You can make any excuses you want to make but that is a lousy stat. Sanchez may lose is starting job to TEBOW if his doesn't improve.

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    Default Re: Luck vs Griffin - let it begin.

    I'm just not seeing tons of bad passes from Luck. I'm seeing receivers with the dropsies though. And it's hard to blame those on Luck because Wayne isn't dropping balls when he is targeted.

    Luck has also thrown away a few balls.

    I just don't see Luck's 53% completion percentage all the result of bad play on his part. And some of the dropsies might be cured by game experience. Lucks passes are tight spirals so they aren't hard passes for the receivers to catch.

    Road games aren't going to be his friend. Especially early road games. What is Luck's percentage when he's at home? I'd like to see that stat for comparison.
    Nuntius was right. I was wrong. Frank Vogel has retained his job.

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