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Thread: Luck vs Griffin - let it begin.

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    Default Re: Luck vs Griffin - let it begin.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bball View Post
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    If he was to win the MVP then it would mean his rookie season has surpassed Luck. It SHOULD also mean RG3's team has improved considerably because I think the MVP should be reserved for a player that markedly makes his team much, much better than they already would be. While that doesn't preclude it going to a team with a mediocre or worse record, it should certainly come close to doing that.
    It won't happen. That team is probably a .500 team at best. MVP goes to a winning team. He might get offensive player of the year to go with the rookie of the year he will surely win.

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    Default Re: Luck vs Griffin - let it begin.

    If Andrew Luck wins MVP, OlBlu would still find a way to minimize his accomplishments. Don't misconstrue this situation: The unreasonable and totally irrational side of this is anything OlBlu is arguing. The RGIII backlash on here is almost solely Blu's production. Bravo, troll.

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    Default Re: Luck vs Griffin - let it begin.

    Ace,

    Griffin winning MVP is about as likely as pigs flying but sure, in that case I'd say he had a better SEASON than Luck. Obviously he'd have to in order to get the award. I wouldn't go so far as to say his career is guaranteed to be better than Luck's career.

    On flip side, do you think Olblu would give Luck any credit if Luck were to win MVP? More likely Olblu would be shouting conspiracy theories and stats to try to show why Luck is undeserving.

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    Default Re: Luck vs Griffin - let it begin.

    Quote Originally Posted by Swingman View Post
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    Ace,

    Griffin winning MVP is about as likely as pigs flying but sure, in that case I'd say he had a better SEASON than Luck. Obviously he'd have to in order to get the award. I wouldn't go so far as to say his career is guaranteed to be better than Luck's career.

    On flip side, do you think Olblu would give Luck any credit if Luck were to win MVP? More likely Olblu would be shouting conspiracy theories and stats to try to show why Luck is undeserving.
    Mark me down as someone who does not think that Luck will ever win an MVP but would not be surprised at all if Peyton Manning won another one (probably not this sure but it could happen)....

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    Default Re: Luck vs Griffin - let it begin.

    RG3 is playing better currently, no idea how anyone can debate that.

    That said, he's got more support. That's going to help. Common sense dictates that if Luck wasn't throwing 40+ times per game his efficiency would go up because teams weren't playing so geared up for stopping the pass. Yet, we don't have a choice, he's the best chance we have at getting the ball down the field. If he was passing 27 times per game like RG3, I would bet he'd be quite a bit more efficient. However that's not how things are playing out, so RG3 is playing better. He's passing better and running better no matter the reason.

    In the long run though, the Redskins need to tone down his carries. He's on pace for 150 carries. Michael Vick's career high? 123. Randall Cunningham? He broke 100 carries only twice in his career. Steve Young? RG3 will probably pass Steve Young's career high for rushes in a season in the next week or two. He's already had a concussion just a few games into his career and as we know, those things get easier to get as you keep having them. That's at least 2 for RG3 that I know of. RG3 just isn't big enough to sustain that kind of beating in the way Michael Vick hasn't been.

    Even though RG3 is playing better at the moment, I just don't see it sustaining itself over the course of a career. Running QB's in the NFL have a very sketchy track record in NFL history, and pocket passers are well proven. While RG3 looks like a superstar in the making, so did Cam Newton last year. The real test is when the NFL has time to learn tendencies and make the young guys adjust to them and what they're doing to take away what they're good at. Ask Cam Newton.

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    Default Re: Luck vs Griffin - let it begin.

    RGIII is having a great season so far no doubt, but anyone who thinks a member of a losing team is going to win the MVP is smoking some serious stuff that I want to get my hands on.

    “WE NEVER SURRENDER, WE NEVER GIVE UP, WE KEEP ATTACKING”- Frank Vogel
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    Default Re: Luck vs Griffin - let it begin.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ace E.Anderson View Post
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    I doubt it does too. I hadn't even thought bout that till I read something about it online and then heard it again on ESPN. At some point he has to hit that rookie wall, and have a bad game or two
    RG3 season depends on the games coming up against tough competition. If he does well against the steelers and baltimore then I think he has a good shot at being rookie of the year. I wouldn't consider it a lock though for him to make the pro bowl considering the qbs with better
    Records overall.

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    Default Re: Luck vs Griffin - let it begin.

    Newton is not comparable to RG3, RG3 is mentally stable just the same way Luck is, Newton to me has the same mentality as TO, great talent but has nothing in his brain.

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    Default Re: Luck vs Griffin - let it begin.

    RG3 just isn't big enough to sustain that kind of beating in the way Michael Vick hasn't been.
    RG3 is bigger than Vick, Vick is like what 5'11" 210 pounds? RG3 is like 6'3" 225 pounds and I expect him to get bigger, he'll be fine.

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    Default Re: Luck vs Griffin - let it begin.

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    RG3 is bigger than Vick, Vick is like what 5'11" 210 pounds? RG3 is like 6'3" 225 pounds and I expect him to get bigger, he'll be fine.
    It's about how you carry that weight, not just the numbers. Watch him on the field. He doesn't look any bigger than Vick.

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    Default Re: Luck vs Griffin - let it begin.

    Quote Originally Posted by xBulletproof View Post
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    It's about how you carry that weight, not just the numbers. Watch him on the field. He doesn't look any bigger than Vick.
    But he is a whole lot faster with an even better arm and a brain to go with it. Graduated from college in three years. A military family with his mother and father. He is used to discipline and hard work. Barring major injury, RGIII is superstar in the NFL for the next 15 years. He has to run too much now but when they get some more help around him and his receivers are healthy, RGIII will do just fine as a pocket passer who runs on occasion. I read and listen to lots of comments and that is the concensus around the NFL except for a small pocket of Luck enthusiasts in Indy. I hear good things about Luck out there too but not like RGIII..... I hear mumblings out there about Luck not being as good as advertised but I have never heard that about RGIII unless it was from an Indy fan. Open your eyes folks, you have been had......

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    Default Re: Luck vs Griffin - let it begin.

    Quote Originally Posted by xBulletproof View Post
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    RG3 is playing better currently, no idea how anyone can debate that.

    That said, he's got more support. That's going to help. Common sense dictates that if Luck wasn't throwing 40+ times per game his efficiency would go up because teams weren't playing so geared up for stopping the pass. Yet, we don't have a choice, he's the best chance we have at getting the ball down the field. If he was passing 27 times per game like RG3, I would bet he'd be quite a bit more efficient. However that's not how things are playing out, so RG3 is playing better. He's passing better and running better no matter the reason.

    In the long run though, the Redskins need to tone down his carries. He's on pace for 150 carries. Michael Vick's career high? 123. Randall Cunningham? He broke 100 carries only twice in his career. Steve Young? RG3 will probably pass Steve Young's career high for rushes in a season in the next week or two. He's already had a concussion just a few games into his career and as we know, those things get easier to get as you keep having them. That's at least 2 for RG3 that I know of. RG3 just isn't big enough to sustain that kind of beating in the way Michael Vick hasn't been.

    Even though RG3 is playing better at the moment, I just don't see it sustaining itself over the course of a career. Running QB's in the NFL have a very sketchy track record in NFL history, and pocket passers are well proven. While RG3 looks like a superstar in the making, so did Cam Newton last year. The real test is when the NFL has time to learn tendencies and make the young guys adjust to them and what they're doing to take away what they're good at. Ask Cam Newton.
    You are right that the defenses will adjust and they are going to take things away from Luck to and force him to run more and pass under even more pressure. Newton is off to a rough start but there is a lot of talent there. I don't like his attitude after a loss either. That has to be eating at him since he has won at every other level. I think he will come back and be more like the Newton of last year. He may struggle all of this year but he is just too good not to eventually do well.......

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    Default Re: Luck vs Griffin - let it begin.

    Quote Originally Posted by xBulletproof View Post
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    RG3 is playing better currently, no idea how anyone can debate that.

    That said, he's got more support. That's going to help. Common sense dictates that if Luck wasn't throwing 40+ times per game his efficiency would go up because teams weren't playing so geared up for stopping the pass. Yet, we don't have a choice, he's the best chance we have at getting the ball down the field. If he was passing 27 times per game like RG3, I would bet he'd be quite a bit more efficient. However that's not how things are playing out, so RG3 is playing better. He's passing better and running better no matter the reason.

    In the long run though, the Redskins need to tone down his carries. He's on pace for 150 carries. Michael Vick's career high? 123. Randall Cunningham? He broke 100 carries only twice in his career. Steve Young? RG3 will probably pass Steve Young's career high for rushes in a season in the next week or two. He's already had a concussion just a few games into his career and as we know, those things get easier to get as you keep having them. That's at least 2 for RG3 that I know of. RG3 just isn't big enough to sustain that kind of beating in the way Michael Vick hasn't been.

    Even though RG3 is playing better at the moment, I just don't see it sustaining itself over the course of a career. Running QB's in the NFL have a very sketchy track record in NFL history, and pocket passers are well proven. While RG3 looks like a superstar in the making, so did Cam Newton last year. The real test is when the NFL has time to learn tendencies and make the young guys adjust to them and what they're doing to take away what they're good at. Ask Cam Newton.
    I agree 100%

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    Default Re: Luck vs Griffin - let it begin.

    Quote Originally Posted by Trader Joe View Post
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    RGIII is having a great season so far no doubt, but anyone who thinks a member of a losing team is going to win the MVP is smoking some serious stuff that I want to get my hands on.
    Again, this was from the words of a few writers/columnist's from the media. I doubt he'll win the MVP award myself.

    As someone else said however, I could see him potentially getting the offensive player of the year award.

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    Default Re: Luck vs Griffin - let it begin.

    Quote Originally Posted by Swingman View Post
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    Ace,

    Griffin winning MVP is about as likely as pigs flying but sure, in that case I'd say he had a better SEASON than Luck. Obviously he'd have to in order to get the award. I wouldn't go so far as to say his career is guaranteed to be better than Luck's career.

    On flip side, do you think Olblu would give Luck any credit if Luck were to win MVP? More likely Olblu would be shouting conspiracy theories and stats to try to show why Luck is undeserving.
    Honestly, idc what OlBlu would do or say. Lol not a knock on the polarizing poster at all , I'm just not interested in making statements to get a rise out of people. I'm just calling things how I see them--and RIGHT NOW I think RGIII is playing better than our rookie QB.

    If somehow he goes on to have a better career than Luck, I would be disappointed that the Colts didn't pick him up when they had the chance. And if Luck were to end up surpassing RGIII and ends up having a better career, I'll look back at these discussions and say that Kid Minneapolis and other posters proved to be right.

    EITHER WAY Griffin has played better thus far. We still have an entire half of season left to see things play out--and I'm excited to see what happens.

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    Default Re: Luck vs Griffin - let it begin.

    Quote Originally Posted by xBulletproof View Post
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    RG3 is playing better currently, no idea how anyone can debate that.
    Check this out from the New York Times.

    http://fifthdown.blogs.nytimes.com/2...al-comparison/

    Luck vs. Griffin, a Statistical Comparison
    By CHASE STUART
    Chase Stuart writes about the historical and statistical side of football at his site, FootballPerspective.com

    After seven weeks, Robert Griffin III of the Redskins has exceeded even the most optimistic expectations. He leads the N.F.L. with a 70.4 completion percentage, and could become the first rookie to lead the league in that category since Parker Hall with the Rams in 1939.

    Griffin also ranks first in yards per attempt with an 8.5 average, and could become the first rookie since another Ram, Bob Waterfield in 1945, to lead the N.F.L. in that statistic. Only two rookies in professional football history have ever led the league in both completion percentage and yards per attempt. The first was another Redskin, Sammy Baugh, in 1937; the last was Greg Cook, in the American Football League in 1969 (his career was ruined by a shoulder injury that year).

    Griffin’s statistical domination of the record book has been astounding. And that’s before we get to the fact that he has 468 rushing yards and 6 touchdowns in seven games, putting Cam Newton’s rookie rushing records in both categories (706 and 14) in jeopardy.

    Griffin will always be compared to the man selected one spot before him in the 2012 draft, Andrew Luck. And on the surface, there’s no comparison. Luck ranks 32nd in completion percentage (53.6) and 25th in yards per attempt (6.7). Whereas Griffin ranks third in traditional passer rating (101.8) behind Aaron Rodgers and Peyton Manning, Luck is tied with Brandon Weeden (72.3) and ahead of only Matt Cassel for last place.

    But traditional statistics don’t always tell the full story, especially when we’re dealing with a sample size that’s smaller than half a season. Those watching Luck have usually come away thinking that he’s the next great quarterback, despite the raw numbers. Fortunately, there’s a way to fill in the rather large gap between perception and statistical production. One of those tools is ESPN’s Total QBR, which ranks Luck as the sixth-best quarterback in the N.F.L. this season. That’s even ahead of Griffin, who is eighth in QBR.

    Jeff Bennett of ESPN Stats & Information, in a telephone interview, was able to help explain why Luck was not only the best rookie quarterback this season, but also perhaps the most underrated quarterback in the N.F.L.

    Difficulty of Throws

    It’s a gross generalization, but Luck plays in a vertical offense while Griffin plays in a horizontal one. Griffin ranks first in completion percentage while Luck ranks 32nd, but that has as much to do with the throws they’re asked to make as each quarterback’s accuracy. Luck‘s average pass attempt has traveled 10.2 yards past the line of scrimmage, the longest average pass distance in the league (this was before “Monday Night Football”; Jay Cutler was second at 9.9 entering the game). Griffin averages 7.9 yards downfield per pass attempt, slightly below the league average of 8.2.

    And Luck’s long average pass distance isn’t simply a product of throwing lots of incomplete passes down the field. His average pass distance on completions is 8.6 yards past the line of scrimmage, also highest in the N.F.L. (Cutler was fourth at 8.3 entering Monday night). Griffin’s completions come an average of 5.8 yards from the line of scrimmage, well below the league average of 6.6.

    Those numbers agree with Brian Burke’s data at Advanced NFL Stats, which show that Griffin has thrown only 14 percent of his passes 15-plus yards past the line of scrimmage, the lowest rate in the league. Luck has thrown only 11 percent of his passes at or behind the line of scrimmage, while Griffin is in an offense that has let him throw 44 passes at or behind the line, accounting for 23 percent of his attempts. Coach Mike Shanahan and his offensive coordinator, Kyle Shanahan, deserve credit for molding an offense that fits Griffin’s strengths. Unfortunately for Luck, nothing is being made easy for him in Indianapolis.

    Yards After the Catch

    Casting Luck as a downfield thrower is true, but only half the story. Unlike many rookie quarterbacks, whether through design or lack of talent, Luck rarely has a running back as a checkdown option. According to Footballguys.com, Colts running backs have been targeted on just 7 percent of all Indianapolis passes, the lowest mark in the league. Conversely, Colts receivers have been targeted on 72 percent of Indianapolis attempts, the highest mark in the N.F.L.

    In the same vein, much of Griffin’s production has come via yards after the catch. On average, passers in 2012 have gained 56 percent of their yards through the air and 44 percent on yards after the catch by their receivers. For Griffin, 51.4 percent of his yards have come via his receivers after the catch, the fifth-highest mark in the league. Luck, in large part because of his downfield passing, has gained 68.9 percent of his yards through the air, the highest percentage in the league, and therefore has been helped the least in terms of yards after the catch.

    However, simply putting the stats in this context does not mean that Luck has been a better passer than Griffin; rather, it is to simply close the extraordinary gap created by traditional statistics. Griffin’s completion percentage and yards per attempt average are still more impressive even after adjusting for the difficulty of his throws. If we looked simply at their passing numbers, even ESPN’s Total QBR would rank Griffin ahead of Luck, by a score of 68.7 to 60.7. And while you know there is more to being a quarterback than just passing, you might be surprised to learn that looking at those things actually vaults Luck ahead of Griffin.

    Running for Purpose

    Griffin has rushed for 468 yards, averaged 7.6 yards per carry and scored six touchdowns, while Luck has rushed for only 115 yards on 5.8 yards per carry and scored three touchdowns. But according to ESPN, Luck has been the more valuable runner this year. How can that be?

    Luck has only 18 true carries this season, with 2 of his 20 carries coming on kneel-downs. Luck doesn’t run very often, choosing his spots carefully. Despite only 18 true rushes, Luck has 10 first-down runs on scrambles, most in the league (Griffin and Michael Vick each have nine). Seven of those 10 have come on third down; no other quarterback more than 4 scrambles for 1st downs on 3rd down this year. Over all, 12 of his 18 runs have gone for first downs, while Griffin has gained first downs on only 41 percent of his 61 runs (excluding kneel-downs).

    Another reason Griffin’s rushing value is depressed in ESPN’s system is that he has five fumbles this season and has only recovered one (his teammates have recovered two). Luck has yet to fumble on a running play this year. Add it all up, and Luck has a near-perfect rating of 99.8 on runs this season, while Griffin has an impressive but less stellar 62.0 rating.

    Still, because rushing isn’t a large component of Luck’s game, that wasn’t enough to vault him over Griffin. What was?

    Clutch performances

    According to Bennett, even accounting for rushing, Griffin still edges Luck in QBR, 75.7 to 65.8. However, ESPN also adds an element to its calculation that gives quarterbacks more credit (or blame) for their performance in high-leverage plays. This is designed to quantify a player’s performance in the clutch. As a general rule, statisticians agree that clutch performance is not predictable or repeatable, but no one doubts its impact in explaining what happened. So while Luck may not continue to be a particularly clutch quarterback, he certainly has played well in crucial situations so far in his early career. By applying this clutch weight, Griffin’s QBR dips slightly to 71.8 while Luck’s rating improves to 73.0.

    Luck led a memorable fourth-quarter comeback against the Green Bay Packers, and he also led a game-winning drive against the Vikings in the final 31 seconds. He nearly had a third memorable performance: against the Jaguars, He led a fourth-quarter comeback, giving the Colts a the lead with one minute to go. After a quick Jacksonville touchdown, he nearly led Indianapolis back to victory.

    Hidden Factors

    Another metric that traditional individual stats ignore is penalties. Luck has added more value to his team on called penalties, like defensive pass interference and defensive holding, than any other quarterback in the league. Griffin has also been drawing key flags — he ranks third in value added via penalty — a sign that both quarterbacks are putting stress on defenses.

    Technically, ESPN does not take into account the strength of opposing defenses, but Bennett and his team have come up with a “defense-adjusted” QBR. Luck has faced tougher defenses this season (Chicago in particular, along with Green Bay and the Jets), and his opponent-adjusted Total QBR is 76.1. While Griffin’s schedule hasn’t been full of cupcakes, it has been below average, and the opponent-adjustment brings him down to 67.2.

    Conclusion

    Both Andrew Luck and Robert Griffin III have been excellent this year, but only Griffin looks great when examining traditional metrics. The above analysis isn’t intended to denigrate Griffin; if anything, it should raise questions about why the coaches in Indianapolis are making things so difficult for Luck. He has being asked to throw more deep passes and has made fewer checkdowns than just about any quarterback in the league, despite an extremely inexperienced set of targets after Reggie Wayne. He has also being asked to throw the ball frequently — he ranks third in pass attempts per game, the cost of doing business when paired with a below-average defense and an anemic running game. As a result, his completion percentage and yards per attempt averages are underwhelming, but it’s tough to say how well Griffin would do if the players switched teams. Griffin may have the highlight reel runs and the showy statistics, but Luck has arguably been even more impressive under considerably more challenging circumstances.
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    Default Re: Luck vs Griffin - let it begin.

    Luck's offense may be difficult for him now, but I think it will pay huge dividends down the road. It is exactly how Peyton learned to play the position. Now Luck is ahead of RGIII in terms of learning offenses, this isn't to say RGIII won't pick up a vertical offense quickly if/when the Skins let him do that, but it is to say that Luck is further ahead of RGIII in terms of learning an offense that has traditionally won a lot of football games in the NFL. Let's say the Skins decide to get more vertical or "pro style" this offseason, isn't that kind of like having to be a rookie all over again for RGIII? It will be interesting to see without a doubt. Peyton started to really come online about 8 games into his rookie year, I look for Luck to do the same.

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    Default Re: Luck vs Griffin - let it begin.

    I'm just willing to believe that Luck quits wearing his wristband with the plays on it before RGIII does. We have already seen how proficient Luck is at running the no-huddle offense and the 2-minute drill.
    "I've got an idea--an idea so smart that my head would explode if I even began to know what I'm talking about." - Peter Griffin

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    Default Re: Luck vs Griffin - let it begin.

    This is what I was saying. People want to use the old measuring system but they fail to realize that statistics can tell you more if you include more measurements. Thats the total QBR rating and it includes many things that goes ignored by poster heres. How many false starts by linemen that make a 1 and 10 a 1st and 15. Holding calls, 3rd and short vs 3rd and long all of this matters and goes into figuring out total QBR.

    Right now Luck is ahead of RG3 and thats with playing a tougher schedule against better pass defenses.

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    Default Re: Luck vs Griffin - let it begin.

    Quote Originally Posted by BRushWithDeath View Post
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    Check this out from the New York Times.
    I think I can faintly hear the furious pounding of a keyboard preparing his response. If only there was a way to get everyone's predictions on the excuse beforehand...

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    Default Re: Luck vs Griffin - let it begin.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gamble1 View Post
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    This is what I was saying. People want to use the old measuring system but they fail to realize that statistics can tell you more if you include more measurements. Thats the total QBR rating and it includes many things that goes ignored by poster heres. How many false starts by linemen that make a 1 and 10 a 1st and 15. Holding calls, 3rd and short vs 3rd and long all of this matters and goes into figuring out total QBR.

    Right now Luck is ahead of RG3 and thats with playing a tougher schedule against better pass defenses.
    OB will just skip over that post though and tell us how the stat doesn't punish completion percentage and ignores sacks.

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    Default Re: Luck vs Griffin - let it begin.

    Quote Originally Posted by bunt View Post
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    I think I can faintly hear the furious pounding of a keyboard preparing his response. If only there was a way to get everyone's predictions on the excuse beforehand...
    Copy and paste pretty much any of his posts form the past 2 months and you'll have a pretty good idea.

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    Default Re: Luck vs Griffin - let it begin.

    Quote Originally Posted by Trader Joe View Post
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    Luck's offense may be difficult for him now, but I think it will pay huge dividends down the road. It is exactly how Peyton learned to play the position. Now Luck is ahead of RGIII in terms of learning offenses, this isn't to say RGIII won't pick up a vertical offense quickly if/when the Skins let him do that, but it is to say that Luck is further ahead of RGIII in terms of learning an offense that has traditionally won a lot of football games in the NFL. Let's say the Skins decide to get more vertical or "pro style" this offseason, isn't that kind of like having to be a rookie all over again for RGIII? It will be interesting to see without a doubt. Peyton started to really come online about 8 games into his rookie year, I look for Luck to do the same.
    I could be wrong, but I'd think the Skins would simply add more to RGIII's plate, as opposed to completely changing their offensive strategy. Their offense isn't too much different than what DEN used to run with Jake Plummer back in the day, or what the Texans run now. As long as the running game is consistently moving the chains, that play-action/rollout game is a staple of the game plan. All they would need to do is give him the option to look to the opposite side of the field. RGIII played in a spread offense and college and seems sharp enough to be able to run system where he's not only looking to throw to half the field.

    I definitely think that Griffin is in a system that suits him the best. I think that type of system would've done wonders for Luck and his numbers.

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    Default Re: Luck vs Griffin - let it begin.

    I think RGIII is too talented to be limited to a system that Jake Plummer or Matt Schaub run personally. I would try to open it up if I was Washington.

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  30. #675

    Default Re: Luck vs Griffin - let it begin.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ace E.Anderson View Post
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    I could be wrong, but I'd think the Skins would simply add more to RGIII's plate, as opposed to completely changing their offensive strategy. Their offense isn't too much different than what DEN used to run with Jake Plummer back in the day, or what the Texans run now. As long as the running game is consistently moving the chains, that play-action/rollout game is a staple of the game plan. All they would need to do is give him the option to look to the opposite side of the field. RGIII played in a spread offense and college and seems sharp enough to be able to run system where he's not only looking to throw to half the field.

    I definitely think that Griffin is in a system that suits him the best. I think that type of system would've done wonders for Luck and his numbers.
    I think this is true. But I also think the Colts have made it clear that they aren't as much concerned with Luck having pretty numbers this year as they are with him gaining a complete understanding of both the Colts offense and opposing defenses. Which means growing pains. Luck and the Colts could care less about him winning the rookie of the year. I'm guessing most everyone's seen the articles about Luck learning and digesting the entire playbook from the very beginning. And the Colts using the no-huddle offense throughout some games and Luck's work in two minute offense attests to this. This strategy will pay huge dividends later this year, next year, and the coming years especially. Again, the goal isn't rookie of the year, it's about winning in the playoffs and winning super bowls. And that starts with the quarterback.

    But this isn't to say what the Colts coaches are doing is perfect. Why they're not incorporating their tight ends and running backs more often, and not using more slants and other short passes that move the ball and move the chains, I have no idea. I mean the lack of a running game, the sometimes shaky protection, and inexperienced receivers contribute to this, but incorporating some of this is common sense. Some of these plays are just an extended handoff for guys like Peyton and Brady.

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