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Thread: Luck vs Griffin - let it begin.

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    Default Re: Luck vs Griffin - let it begin.

    Quote Originally Posted by Trader Joe View Post
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    The price we paid to get him? What price did we pay to get him? Do you really think this team is winning games with Peyton Manning before?

    I forgot that Peyton was never ever blown out by the Jets....oh wait....41-0.
    I think this team with some vets back and a whole boat load of draft picks that we don't have would be a winner with Peyton. I think they would be wining ten games this year and might even make the playoffs...... Sure, Peyton had bad games. I agreed with you that you just write off the Jets game and try to win the games you should win.....

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    Default Re: Luck vs Griffin - let it begin.

    RG3 isn't half the runner that Vick was when he entered the league. He might be a faster straight-line runner, but even then I doubt it. Vick was faster in acceleration, was dynamic in his lateral shiftiness and stop-and-go, and then when he lit up the afterburners, was a 4.2-4.3 runner. RG3 is fast, but I've watched them both --- he's no Vick. Vick is maybe the 2nd most dynamic runner I've ever seen in this league, behind Barry Sanders. And Vick still throws an absolutely beautiful laser. To the right person and accurately? Debatable.

    That's why I've said that if Mike Vick can't find any deep playoff success in this league, what makes anyone think RG3 will? He's behind Vick in both running and passing. I do see similarities on the whole between the two, however; they are both electrifying players. They have a similar throwing style, and can absolutely wing it. But that play style is not conducive to post-season success, because flash and electricity get absolutely shut down in the playoffs. Kordell Stewart, Randall Cunningham... I'm not saying this because they all were black, I'm saying it because they all played a very similar style of ball. You *never* see those guys pull off in the playoffs what they do in the regular season. Those types of players are regular season show-offs, and then get blasted in the playoffs, if they even make it in to the playoffs. You only make those plays against half-baked defenses, and there are no half-baked defenses in the playoffs.

    I still think Washington is absolutely playing with fire with how much they let the kid run.... he's gonna get blasted again. I'm not saying that with glee, I'm saying it with concern, they need to not simplify the playbook just because he's not picking it up as fast. They need to challenge him and keep him in the pocket and grow him as a passer, not just dumb things down and make it simple for him to have success as a rookie. They're hurting his long-term growth.
    Last edited by Kid Minneapolis; 10-15-2012 at 09:54 AM.
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    Default Re: Luck vs Griffin - let it begin.

    That was weird?? I was trying to quote Ol Blu and Trader's name came up instead....
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    Default Re: Luck vs Griffin - let it begin.

    Quote Originally Posted by OlBlu View Post
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    He is a superstar but as another poster correctly mentioned, they have pared the playbook down for him and added plays that give him familiar options. As he progresses and he is certainly doing that, he will have a more complex playbook to work with. The Colts would do well to do the same thing for Luck...... Might become better than a 50% passer that way.....
    Passing percentage of Peyton Manning through week 6 of his NFL rookie season...53.8% oh and for funsies...Peyton had 6 TDS and 14 picks at this time as well. He had thrown for 1364 yards (In 6 starts)

    Passing percentage of Andrew Luck through week 6 of his NFL rookie season...53.4%....also for funsies...Luck has 7 TDs and 7 picks at this time. Luck has thrown for 1488 yards (in 5 starts)

    Luck is playing maybe the most complicated downfield offense we have ever seen a rookie run in addition to this. Keep ripping on Luck's completion percentage all you want, just know that it is another area where you look silly since Peyton struggled with the exact same thing.

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    Default Re: Luck vs Griffin - let it begin.

    Quote Originally Posted by RWB View Post
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    That was weird?? I was trying to quote Ol Blu and Trader's name came up instead....
    For some reason that always happens when you try to quote OlBlu. I always have to go in and fix it, because in the post above it quoted OlBlu as you

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    Default Re: Luck vs Griffin - let it begin.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kid Minneapolis View Post
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    RG3 isn't half the runner that Vick was when he entered the league. He might be a faster straight-line runner, but even then I doubt it. Vick was dynamic in his lateral shiftiness and stop-and-go,a nd then when he lit up the afterburners, was a 4.2-4.3 runner. RG3 is fast, but I've watched them both --- he's no Vick. I do see similarities on the whole between the two, however; they are both electrifying players. They have a similar throwing style, and can absolutely wing it. But that play style is not conducive to post-season success, because flash and electricity get absolutely shut down in the playoffs. Kordell Stewart, Randall Cunningham... I'm not saying this because they all were black, I'm saying it because they all played a very similar style of ball. You *never* see those guys pull off in the playoffs what they do in the regular season. Those types of players are regular season show-offs, and then get blasted in the playoffs, if they even make it in to the playoffs. You only make those plays against half-baked defenses, and there are no half-baked defenses in the playoffs.

    I still think Washington is absolutely playing with fire with how much they let the kid run.... he's gonna get blasted again. I'm not saying that with glee, I'm saying it with concern, they need to not simplify the playbook just because he's not picking it up as fast. They need to challenge him and keep him in the pocket and grow him as a passer, not just dumb things down and make it simple for him to have success as a rookie. They're hurting his long-term growth.
    I actually ready RG3 ran a 4.2 40, and even a 4 flat. But he kept looking back on that last TD run. Maybe he did not have the afterburners on, IDK.

    Regardless, I agree. I actually think Vick was faster coming into the league.

    I still think Washington is absolutely playing with fire with how much they let the kid run.... he's gonna get blasted again. I'm not saying that with glee, I'm saying it with concern, they need to not simplify the playbook just because he's not picking it up as fast. They need to challenge him and keep him in the pocket and grow him as a passer, not just dumb things down and make it simple for him to have success as a rookie. They're hurting his long-term growth.
    [/quote]

    I agree. I hate how Kyle is using him.

    I disagree with dumbing it down. I think you need to simlify things to grow confidence, but there is a fine line of when to try to progress and accept growing pains

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    Default Re: Luck vs Griffin - let it begin.

    RGIII ran a 4.41 at the combine. Luck ran a 4.6 and also did incredibly well in the agility tests, which RGIII chose not to take part in for whatever reason.

    Vick ran a 4.33 in 2001 and also skipped the agility tests.

    All three of these guys have mind numbing athletic numbers for a QB. The fact that Luck and RGIII were in the same draft is even more mind numbing. The fact that we can't even enjoy the greatness of both players without being bludgeoned to death is the most mind numbing thing of all.

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    Default Re: Luck vs Griffin - let it begin.

    The fact that Luck moves as well as he does at his size is amazing. Tim Tebow has made a living in this league running the ball, and Luck is actually bigger and more athletic than him, and I'm basing that off actual combine results. Luck topped him in almost every category.

    The highlights of him plowing defenders over after his team turned it over, or his 1-handed catch on the sidelines... makes you think there's no skill position he couldn't play with some success in this league. I could see him playing tight end very well. I could maybe even see him playing linebacker. The tackles he's made after his team turned the ball over are textbook.... lowers/squares his shoulder, drives his legs, and goes through guys. His tackles look very natural, as if he's not getting jarred. When he's made those tackles, you think that it was someone else, a natural tackler, and then you see him get up and you think "OMG that was the quarterback!" He's just an all-around footballer.

    When he's off the field in street clothes, he looks goofy, a lil awkward, doesn't even really seem that athletic, has that disheveled hair that is just bad. But then he dons that football helmet and jersey and it's like "Okay, football player." And then you see him move and throw like he does, and you think "Okay, wasn't expecting that." It's like he just enters a whole different mode once it's game time. He sort of reminds me of Jeff Foster athletically, in that you're just not expecting it. Foster looked so pedestrian. But the guy was a strength freak, and could dunk from the free throw line.
    Last edited by Kid Minneapolis; 10-15-2012 at 10:11 AM.
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    Default Re: Luck vs Griffin - let it begin.

    Quote Originally Posted by OlBlu View Post
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    It is my opinion that RGIII will put a lot of distance between himself and Luck over the next three years and Colts management will not be effective at putting a team around him as they are currently constructed. The coaches illness doesn't help this but even good coaches rarely survive a complete rebuild......
    This is just a bias claim made by a biased man. You say you haven't seen good results from a teams that drafted their franchise QB before they had a good offensive line. At this point there is little difference between the Redskins line vs. the Colts line when it comes to pass protection. They now have the same number of QB hits and sacks although the Colts had their bye week and RG3 didn't play an entire game already. The Colts have also faced better pass rushers than the Redskins as well.

    You didn't think the Colts should draft Luck then why should have the Redskins drafted RG3? You do this a lot and its quite funny to me. You say I believe this...... and then make an argument against your own opinion.

    You say the Colts won't be as effective at putting a team around Luck as THEY ARE CURRENTLY CONSTRUCTED... How laughable is that comment.. So if the Colts make no improvements to the team then they still will be bad? No WAY!

    The Colts will have more money and more picks than the Redskins and considering there is no big track record of Grigson to go off of then I just chalk these type of comments up to a jaded Peyton fan that can't accept change.
    Last edited by Gamble1; 10-15-2012 at 11:16 AM.

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    Default Re: Luck vs Griffin - let it begin.

    Quote Originally Posted by Trader Joe View Post
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    I don't know if you're exactly going to help RGIII by comparing him to Vick. Vick has had a pretty "Meh" career for a first round draft pick. No conference champ appearances, lots of turnovers, and lots of injuries. RGIII will have to be more of a pocket QB as his career wears on. He is built more like Vick, not like Steve McNair for example.
    Vick actually led the Falcons to the conference championship against the Eagles in 2004

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    Default Re: Luck vs Griffin - let it begin.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ace E.Anderson View Post
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    Vick actually led the Falcons to the conference championship against the Eagles in 2004
    Good call.

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    Default Re: Luck vs Griffin - let it begin.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gamble1 View Post
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    This is just a bias claim made by a biased man. You say you haven't seen good results from a teams that drafted their franchise QB before they had a good offensive line. At this point there is little difference between the Redskins line vs. the Colts line when it comes to pass protection. They now have the same number of QB hits and sacks although the Colts had their bye week and RG3 didn't play an entire game already. The Colts have also faced better pass rushers than the Redskins as well.

    You didn't think the Colts should draft Luck then why should have the Redskins drafted RG3? You do this a lot and its quite funny to me. You say I believe this...... and then make an argument against your own opinion.

    You say the Colts won't be as effective at putting a team around Luck as THEY ARE CURRENTLY CONSTRUCTED... How laughable is that comment.. So if the Colts make no improvements to the team then they still will be bad? No WAY!

    The Colts will have more money and more picks than the Redskins and considering there is no big track record of Grigson to go off of then I just chalk these type of comments up to a jaded Peyton fan that can't accept change.
    I believe the Redskins line is light years ahead of the Colts line. They actually make a pocket for RGIII to pass in. Yes, he has taken sacks but that was more because he needed to spot his receivers a little quicker and get rid of the ball a little faster. He will do that, he has a quick release. He isn't doing as much running all over the field to avoid be sacked. I am a jaded Peyton fan and so is my small extended family (my brother and his grown children). We used to have four season tickets to the Colts games. When it was clear that Irsay was lying to the fans about keeping Peyton, we let those tickets go and the rest of my family has found other things to do with their Sunday afternoons. I bought those tickets and I field a call or two per month from the Colts wanting to sign me back up. We had those tickets for more than 15 years. I always ask them if we have a new owner that won't lie to the fans. That ends that conversation. So, yes, they lost my financial support over all of that. I would have maintained interest if they had taken all of the wild offers for Luck and used that to replace some talent around Peyton and resign some of the vets like Saturday and Garcon'. I think they would have won ten plus games and they could have taken a QB later in the first round to develop. Several are doing quite well, better than Luck for instance. I might have even been a fan of using some of the picks to take RGIII and develop him over a couple of years and still have more draft picks left over. I think that is what New England might have done given the same circumstances. Brady will be ending his career in the next five or so years and I'm willing to bet the Pats don't miss a beat... The difference between a great owner and a very poor one an the difference between a great front office and coach and a bunch of newbies working.... But, Ol Jim saved a lot of money with the purge and he is laughing all the way to the bank with it.....

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    Default Re: Luck vs Griffin - let it begin.

    The fact you want Saturday back says it all. I love the guy to death, but he is so bad now it is not even funny.

    Please tell us about all these rookie QBs doing much better than Luck.

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    Default Re: Luck vs Griffin - let it begin.

    Quote Originally Posted by Trader Joe View Post
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    The fact you want Saturday back says it all. I love the guy to death, but he is so bad now it is not even funny.

    Please tell us about all these rookie QBs doing much better than Luck.
    I think the one in Seattle is better. I think the one in Phoenix is better but he has been hurt. I even think the one in Miami is better and you better get ready to defend one coming in from Cleveland because he might be better too.....

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    Default Re: Luck vs Griffin - let it begin.

    Quote Originally Posted by Trader Joe View Post
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    The fact you want Saturday back says it all. I love the guy to death, but he is so bad now it is not even funny.

    Please tell us about all these rookie QBs doing much better than Luck.
    I agree with you about Saturday but he would only have been brought back because Peyton was comfortable with him. It was certainly time to replace him....

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    Default Re: Luck vs Griffin - let it begin.

    Quote Originally Posted by OlBlu View Post
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    I think the one in Seattle is better. I think the one in Phoenix is better but he has been hurt. I even think the one in Miami is better and you better get ready to defend one coming in from Cleveland because he might be better too.....
    I would have a hard time remembering their names too if I was just pulling it out of my *** and flinging it against the wall. Are you talking about John Skelton in Arizona?
    Last edited by Trader Joe; 10-15-2012 at 12:42 PM.

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    Default Re: Luck vs Griffin - let it begin.

    Yes, but he has been injured. I think the one in Seattle is Wilson and he has been very good. Tannehill has done well but it is a bad team. Weems will be coming in and he will play very well against the Colts (who doesn't)......

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    Default Re: Luck vs Griffin - let it begin.

    Quote Originally Posted by OlBlu View Post
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    Yes, but he has been injured. I think the one in Seattle is Wilson and he has been very good. Tannehill has done well but it is a bad team. Weems will be coming in and he will play very well against the Colts (who doesn't)......
    I can't believe you just fell for my John Skelton bait. He's not even a rookie.

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    Default Re: Luck vs Griffin - let it begin.

    Phoenix, I'm assuming you mean Arizona. Ryan Lindley is their rookie backup QB, and he hasn't played not because he's hurt but because he's not good. When Kolb went down, he didn't get the snaps, John Skelton did.

    If you're going to make things up, atleast pick out rookie QBs that have played.

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    Default Re: Luck vs Griffin - let it begin.

    Can't wait to watch that Weems fellow from Cleveland this weekend! You can really tell OlBlu has done a lot of homework on these rookie QBs.

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    Default Re: Luck vs Griffin - let it begin.

    Quote Originally Posted by Trader Joe View Post
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    I can't believe you just fell for my John Skelton bait. He's not even a rookie.
    I thought he was..... Sorry... That kid in Seattle is definitely a rookie and a very good one with some quality wins....

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    Default Re: Luck vs Griffin - let it begin.

    Quote Originally Posted by Trader Joe View Post
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    Can't wait to watch that Weems fellow from Cleveland this weekend! You can really tell OlBlu has done a lot of homework on these rookie QBs.
    I have watched Weems a little bit and I like what I see. I think he will play very well against the Colts... We will see.....

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    Default Re: Luck vs Griffin - let it begin.

    Quote Originally Posted by OlBlu View Post
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    I thought he was..... Sorry... That kid in Seattle is definitely a rookie and a very good one with some quality wins....
    Oh yeah Russell Wilson has been tearing it up for that team. I mean when you have one of the best defenses in the NFL and one of the best rushing offenses in the NFL. It's pretty hard not to do well. Just ask Matt Schaub and Joe Flacco.


    Speaking of Schaub, last night proved my point on him. He was complete garbage trying to lead the Texans back last night.

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    Default Re: Luck vs Griffin - let it begin.

    Quote Originally Posted by OlBlu View Post
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    I have watched Weems a little bit and I like what I see. I think he will play very well against the Colts... We will see.....
    His name isn't Weems.

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    Default Re: Luck vs Griffin - let it begin.

    Quote Originally Posted by Trader Joe View Post
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    His name isn't Weems.
    OK, however he spells it..... Half of the Colts fans could never spell "Peyton" either..

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