Announcement

Collapse

The Rules of Pacers Digest

Hello everyone,

Whether your are a long standing forum member or whether you have just registered today, it's a good idea to read and review the rules below so that you have a very good idea of what to expect when you come to Pacers Digest.

A quick note to new members: Your posts will not immediately show up when you make them. An administrator has to approve at least your first post before the forum software will later upgrade your account to the status of a fully-registered member. This usually happens within a couple of hours or so after your post(s) is/are approved, so you may need to be a little patient at first.

Why do we do this? So that it's more difficult for spammers (be they human or robot) to post, and so users who are banned cannot immediately re-register and start dousing people with verbal flames.

Below are the rules of Pacers Digest. After you have read them, you will have a very good sense of where we are coming from, what we expect, what we don't want to see, and how we react to things.

Rule #1

Pacers Digest is intended to be a place to discuss basketball without having to deal with the kinds of behaviors or attitudes that distract people from sticking with the discussion of the topics at hand. These unwanted distractions can come in many forms, and admittedly it can sometimes be tricky to pin down each and every kind that can rear its ugly head, but we feel that the following examples and explanations cover at least a good portion of that ground and should at least give people a pretty good idea of the kinds of things we actively discourage:

"Anyone who __________ is a liar / a fool / an idiot / a blind homer / has their head buried in the sand / a blind hater / doesn't know basketball / doesn't watch the games"

"People with intelligence will agree with me when I say that __________"

"Only stupid people think / believe / do ___________"

"I can't wait to hear something from PosterX when he/she sees that **insert a given incident or current event that will have probably upset or disappointed PosterX here**"

"He/she is just delusional"

"This thread is stupid / worthless / embarrassing"

"I'm going to take a moment to point and / laugh at PosterX / GroupOfPeopleY who thought / believed *insert though/belief here*"

"Remember when PosterX said OldCommentY that no longer looks good? "

In general, if a comment goes from purely on topic to something 'ad hominem' (personal jabs, personal shots, attacks, flames, however you want to call it, towards a person, or a group of people, or a given city/state/country of people), those are most likely going to be found intolerable.

We also dissuade passive aggressive behavior. This can be various things, but common examples include statements that are basically meant to imply someone is either stupid or otherwise incapable of holding a rational conversation. This can include (but is not limited to) laughing at someone's conclusions rather than offering an honest rebuttal, asking people what game they were watching, or another common problem is Poster X will say "that player isn't that bad" and then Poster Y will say something akin to "LOL you think that player is good". We're not going to tolerate those kinds of comments out of respect for the community at large and for the sake of trying to just have an honest conversation.

Now, does the above cover absolutely every single kind of distraction that is unwanted? Probably not, but you should by now have a good idea of the general types of things we will be discouraging. The above examples are meant to give you a good feel for / idea of what we're looking for. If something new or different than the above happens to come along and results in the same problem (that being, any other attitude or behavior that ultimately distracts from actually just discussing the topic at hand, or that is otherwise disrespectful to other posters), we can and we will take action to curb this as well, so please don't take this to mean that if you managed to technically avoid saying something exactly like one of the above examples that you are then somehow off the hook.

That all having been said, our goal is to do so in a generally kind and respectful way, and that doesn't mean the moment we see something we don't like that somebody is going to be suspended or banned, either. It just means that at the very least we will probably say something about it, quite possibly snipping out the distracting parts of the post in question while leaving alone the parts that are actually just discussing the topics, and in the event of a repeating or excessive problem, then we will start issuing infractions to try to further discourage further repeat problems, and if it just never seems to improve, then finally suspensions or bans will come into play. We would prefer it never went that far, and most of the time for most of our posters, it won't ever have to.

A slip up every once and a while is pretty normal, but, again, when it becomes repetitive or excessive, something will be done. Something occasional is probably going to be let go (within reason), but when it starts to become habitual or otherwise a pattern, odds are very good that we will step in.

There's always a small minority that like to push people's buttons and/or test their own boundaries with regards to the administrators, and in the case of someone acting like that, please be aware that this is not a court of law, but a private website run by people who are simply trying to do the right thing as they see it. If we feel that you are a special case that needs to be dealt with in an exceptional way because your behavior isn't explicitly mirroring one of our above examples of what we generally discourage, we can and we will take atypical action to prevent this from continuing if you are not cooperative with us.

Also please be aware that you will not be given a pass simply by claiming that you were 'only joking,' because quite honestly, when someone really is just joking, for one thing most people tend to pick up on the joke, including the person or group that is the target of the joke, and for another thing, in the event where an honest joke gets taken seriously and it upsets or angers someone, the person who is truly 'only joking' will quite commonly go out of his / her way to apologize and will try to mend fences. People who are dishonest about their statements being 'jokes' do not do so, and in turn that becomes a clear sign of what is really going on. It's nothing new.

In any case, quite frankly, the overall quality and health of the entire forum's community is more important than any one troublesome user will ever be, regardless of exactly how a problem is exhibiting itself, and if it comes down to us having to make a choice between you versus the greater health and happiness of the entire community, the community of this forum will win every time.

Lastly, there are also some posters, who are generally great contributors and do not otherwise cause any problems, who sometimes feel it's their place to provoke or to otherwise 'mess with' that small minority of people described in the last paragraph, and while we possibly might understand why you might feel you WANT to do something like that, the truth is we can't actually tolerate that kind of behavior from you any more than we can tolerate the behavior from them. So if we feel that you are trying to provoke those other posters into doing or saying something that will get themselves into trouble, then we will start to view you as a problem as well, because of the same reason as before: The overall health of the forum comes first, and trying to stir the pot with someone like that doesn't help, it just makes it worse. Some will simply disagree with this philosophy, but if so, then so be it because ultimately we have to do what we think is best so long as it's up to us.

If you see a problem that we haven't addressed, the best and most appropriate course for a forum member to take here is to look over to the left of the post in question. See underneath that poster's name, avatar, and other info, down where there's a little triangle with an exclamation point (!) in it? Click that. That allows you to report the post to the admins so we can definitely notice it and give it a look to see what we feel we should do about it. Beyond that, obviously it's human nature sometimes to want to speak up to the poster in question who has bothered you, but we would ask that you try to refrain from doing so because quite often what happens is two or more posters all start going back and forth about the original offending post, and suddenly the entire thread is off topic or otherwise derailed. So while the urge to police it yourself is understandable, it's best to just report it to us and let us handle it. Thank you!

All of the above is going to be subject to a case by case basis, but generally and broadly speaking, this should give everyone a pretty good idea of how things will typically / most often be handled.

Rule #2

If the actions of an administrator inspire you to make a comment, criticism, or express a concern about it, there is a wrong place and a couple of right places to do so.

The wrong place is to do so in the original thread in which the administrator took action. For example, if a post gets an infraction, or a post gets deleted, or a comment within a larger post gets clipped out, in a thread discussing Paul George, the wrong thing to do is to distract from the discussion of Paul George by adding your off topic thoughts on what the administrator did.

The right places to do so are:

A) Start a thread about the specific incident you want to talk about on the Feedback board. This way you are able to express yourself in an area that doesn't throw another thread off topic, and this way others can add their two cents as well if they wish, and additionally if there's something that needs to be said by the administrators, that is where they will respond to it.

B) Send a private message to the administrators, and they can respond to you that way.

If this is done the wrong way, those comments will be deleted, and if it's a repeating problem then it may also receive an infraction as well.

Rule #3

If a poster is bothering you, and an administrator has not or will not deal with that poster to the extent that you would prefer, you have a powerful tool at your disposal, one that has recently been upgraded and is now better than ever: The ability to ignore a user.

When you ignore a user, you will unfortunately still see some hints of their existence (nothing we can do about that), however, it does the following key things:

A) Any post they make will be completely invisible as you scroll through a thread.

B) The new addition to this feature: If someone QUOTES a user you are ignoring, you do not have to read who it was, or what that poster said, unless you go out of your way to click on a link to find out who it is and what they said.

To utilize this feature, from any page on Pacers Digest, scroll to the top of the page, look to the top right where it says 'Settings' and click that. From the settings page, look to the left side of the page where it says 'My Settings', and look down from there until you see 'Edit Ignore List' and click that. From here, it will say 'Add a Member to Your List...' Beneath that, click in the text box to the right of 'User Name', type in or copy & paste the username of the poster you are ignoring, and once their name is in the box, look over to the far right and click the 'Okay' button. All done!

Rule #4

Regarding infractions, currently they carry a value of one point each, and that point will expire in 31 days. If at any point a poster is carrying three points at the same time, that poster will be suspended until the oldest of the three points expires.

Rule #5

When you share or paste content or articles from another website, you must include the URL/link back to where you found it, who wrote it, and what website it's from. Said content will be removed if this doesn't happen.

An example:

If I copy and paste an article from the Indianapolis Star website, I would post something like this:

http://www.linktothearticlegoeshere.com/article
Title of the Article
Author's Name
Indianapolis Star

Rule #6

We cannot tolerate illegal videos on Pacers Digest. This means do not share any links to them, do not mention any websites that host them or link to them, do not describe how to find them in any way, and do not ask about them. Posts doing anything of the sort will be removed, the offenders will be contacted privately, and if the problem becomes habitual, you will be suspended, and if it still persists, you will probably be banned.

The legal means of watching or listening to NBA games are NBA League Pass Broadband (for US, or for International; both cost money) and NBA Audio League Pass (which is free). Look for them on NBA.com.

Rule #7

Provocative statements in a signature, or as an avatar, or as the 'tagline' beneath a poster's username (where it says 'Member' or 'Administrator' by default, if it is not altered) are an unwanted distraction that will more than likely be removed on sight. There can be shades of gray to this, but in general this could be something political or religious that is likely going to provoke or upset people, or otherwise something that is mean-spirited at the expense of a poster, a group of people, or a population.

It may or may not go without saying, but this goes for threads and posts as well, particularly when it's not made on the off-topic board (Market Square).

We do make exceptions if we feel the content is both innocuous and unlikely to cause social problems on the forum (such as wishing someone a Merry Christmas or a Happy Easter), and we also also make exceptions if such topics come up with regards to a sports figure (such as the Lance Stephenson situation bringing up discussions of domestic abuse and the law, or when Jason Collins came out as gay and how that lead to some discussion about gay rights).

However, once the discussion seems to be more/mostly about the political issues instead of the sports figure or his specific situation, the thread is usually closed.

Rule #8

We prefer self-restraint and/or modesty when making jokes or off topic comments in a sports discussion thread. They can be fun, but sometimes they derail or distract from a topic, and we don't want to see that happen. If we feel it is a problem, we will either delete or move those posts from the thread.

Rule #9

Generally speaking, we try to be a "PG-13" rated board, and we don't want to see sexual content or similarly suggestive content. Vulgarity is a more muddled issue, though again we prefer things to lean more towards "PG-13" than "R". If we feel things have gone too far, we will step in.

Rule #10

We like small signatures, not big signatures. The bigger the signature, the more likely it is an annoying or distracting signature.

Rule #11

Do not advertise anything without talking about it with the administrators first. This includes advertising with your signature, with your avatar, through private messaging, and/or by making a thread or post.
See more
See less

Luck vs Griffin - let it begin.

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Re: Luck vs Griffin - let it begin.

    Originally posted by OlBlu View Post
    I am not talking about Luck making mistakes, I am talking about the adjustments the other teams are going to make against him since the Colts can't move the ball on the ground. Double teaming Wayne will become routine, they are already slowing him down. Even more pressure and better coverage will lead to more INTs, not mistakes, just lousy situations and receivers who can't get open. I expect more Chicago type games. That is not a slam on Luck, it is a comment on taking a franchise QB when you don't have the right pieces to put around him....RGIII would have the same problems with Indy but he would negate some of it by being his own running game..... I note that no one ever mentions that RGIII has he most rushing TDs in the entire NFL.....
    certainly teams are going to start game planning for him, I completely agree with you that if we can not develop some type of run game that Luck is going to struggle, anyone would, but we have seen a few games this year where our run game has looked good (Green Bay, Cleveland) also with our O-line playing together more it should help them improve, but if we can just get an even average run game, I can see us going anywhere from 7-9 to 9-7 maybe (this is a long shot, a VERY long shot) 10-6, which would make this season a success

    Comment


    • Re: Luck vs Griffin - let it begin.

      Looks like people are starting to come to their senses:

      http://espn.go.com/espn/story/_/id/8550792/andrew-luck-better-qb-robert-griffin-iii


      QBR or RG3?

      Updated: October 25, 2012, 5:53 PM ET
      By Rick Reilly | ESPN.com



      Getty Images, AP PhotoAndrew Luck, left, makes fewer errors when scrambling than Robert Griffin III.

      Stop the engraver. Hold up on the parade. Tell the sculptor to take a coffee break.
      Before the whole world gives Washington Redskins QB Robert Griffin III the NFL Rookie of the Year, and the MVP award, and maybe the election, let's all just wake up and smell the sanity.
      Yes, he's electric. Yes, Bob has been unBoblievable. Yes, he's cuddly and handsome and the son every mother wants.
      There's only one problem: He's not even the best rookie QB in the league.
      The two-word rebuttal:
      Andrew Luck.
      You don't know this because RG3 works in Washington, D.C., the media magnet where people like my friend Michael Wilbon work and watch every Redskins game and then get lightheaded and say things like what he said on radio this week, which was "RG3 is the best player in the whole league."
      Whoa. We've GOT to get you DIRECTV, Mike.


      Sam Riche/MCT via Getty Images
      Andrew Luck, left, posted a QBR of 68.2 compared to Aaron Rodgers' 54.7 QBR in the Colts 30-27 victory over the Packers in September.


      If you had it, you'd know that Luck has been just a tablespoon better than RG3. He's thrown consistently deeper than RG3. He's been more clutch and less mistake-prone. He's scrambled better than RG3 and has run just fine. He's practically been RG4.
      What is it, Mike, RG3's cute sock collection?
      "It's like they're not watching Andrew Luck," says a man who analyzes quarterbacks for a living, Jeff Bennett, the curator of the most comprehensive QB stat ever invented, ESPN's QBR (total quarterback rating). "One is being called a savior. But the other is just as successful and no one seems to notice."
      If you want a stat that considers everything a QB does, and when he does it, and what was at stake when he did it, then Bennett's QBR stat is for you. Going into Week 8, it had the Mannings at 1 and 2 (Peyton, then Eli), with Tom Brady third. Sound about right? In the QBR rankings, Luck is sixth and Griffin eighth.
      But it tells you more than that. For instance, it tells you:
      • Luck runs more successfully than Griffin. He's had 10 scrambles for first downs. Griffin has had nine.
      • Luck is asked to do more than Griffin and is doing it. His average pass completion travels 8.6 yards in the air, highest in the NFL. Griffin's is 5.8, one of the lowest.
      • Luck is more valuable to his team than Griffin. Sixty-nine percent of the Colts' passing yards are gained while the ball is in the air, the rest after the catch. Only 49 percent of the Skins' passing yards come through the air. In other words, Griffin still has his training wheels on. Luck has his license.

      What is it, Mike, all of RG3's Subway ads?
      Wait! I'm clairvoyant! I know exactly what you're going to say next!

      Reilly, you single-celled organism. Griffin leads the NFL in completion percentage! He's third in the league in passer rating! Luck is second to last! Oh, you mean NFL passer rating, the most useless stat in football? The 41-year-old fossil that was invented, literally, on a slide rule? The one that doesn't even consider running or fumbles or time of game or score? Yeah, I know that stat. That stat is the whole problem.
      RG3 kills in that stat because he's nibbled his way to a league-leading 70.4 percent completion rating. Given the way the Redskins have babied him, Katy Perry in heels could throw for 60 percent. More than 20 percent of RG3's passes this season haven't even traveled across the line of scrimmage. Only 6 percent of Luck's haven't. If you do a cannonball and I do a triple backflip with a McTwist and we both get straight 9s, whose dive was better?


      Harry E. Walker/MCT/Getty Images
      Robert Griffin III has seven fumbles this year. Five happened when he was rushing.


      I don't blame the Skins for babying Griffin. Why wouldn't they? He's America's baby. Mike Shanahan (283 games as a head coach in the NFL) has a good enough team to do that. It beat the New York Giants twice last year.
      But under Bruce Arians (three games as a head coach in the NFL), Luck inherited a team that would pass nicely for a Salvation Army drop off box. The Colts have Luck and Reggie Wayne and just about nobody else. Their running backs couldn't get through a wall of Gillette Foamy. And they've already won more games this year (three) than last year (two).
      What is it, Mike, RG3's fabulous hair?
      If people would just look at these two guys, they'd see Luck has been even more heroic than Mr. Superhero Action Figure Guy.
      Luck beat the Green Bay Packers with a TD pass with 35 seconds left. The Green. Bay. Packers. He beat the Vikings after getting the ball on his own 20 with 30 seconds left and drove downfield for the winning field goal. Against the Jags, he pulled off a miraculous game-winning march in the last minute, only to watch the Jags complete an 80-yard stunner at the end.

      Don't get me wrong. If you made me choose, I'd rather watch RG3. He swerves and curves as though his hips were removed at birth. But he doesn't seem to care much about the football when he's doing it. He's fumbled five times on runs already this season, and two of them potentially cost the Redskins games. Give me Luck, who hasn't fumbled on a run once.

      Look, I love both these guys. Both have been twice as good as advertised, great leaders, and kick-the-dirt humble.

      But only one of them is getting any attention.
      And that socks.
      There are two types of quarterbacks in the league: Those whom over time, the league figures out ... and those who figure out the league.

      Comment


      • Re: Luck vs Griffin - let it begin.

        Originally posted by BlueCollarColts View Post
        certainly teams are going to start game planning for him, I completely agree with you that if we can not develop some type of run game that Luck is going to struggle, anyone would, but we have seen a few games this year where our run game has looked good (Green Bay, Cleveland) also with our O-line playing together more it should help them improve, but if we can just get an even average run game, I can see us going anywhere from 7-9 to 9-7 maybe (this is a long shot, a VERY long shot) 10-6, which would make this season a success
        This may be the worst offensive line in the NFL. Most of them are castoffs from other teams. I can't see them getting any better at all. I don't see the Colts getting close to any of those records you quote. They should be 1-5 right now and that one win should have been against the Jags..... They are not going to keep being that fortunate but I hope you are right. I think this season is a success if they win as many as five games. There just are not enough real NFL football players on this team......

        Comment


        • Re: Luck vs Griffin - let it begin.

          Yea, they do suck (the oline), and Luck has won half of his games behind that sieve. Yet another sign of what this kid is actually doing.
          There are two types of quarterbacks in the league: Those whom over time, the league figures out ... and those who figure out the league.

          Comment


          • Re: Luck vs Griffin - let it begin.

            Look, I love both these guys. Both have been twice as good as advertised, great leaders, and kick-the-dirt humble.
            Ahem......

            Comment


            • Re: Luck vs Griffin - let it begin.

              Originally posted by vapacersfan View Post
              Ahem......
              Ha, ha..... well said....

              Comment


              • Re: Luck vs Griffin - let it begin.

                Originally posted by Kid Minneapolis View Post
                Yea, they do suck (the oline), and Luck has won half of his games behind that sieve. Yet another sign of what this kid is actually doing.
                Imagine how good he's going to be with more protection, more experience and a better set of weapons. He's already good with a pretty poor team around him.

                Comment


                • Re: Luck vs Griffin - let it begin.

                  Originally posted by vapacersfan View Post
                  Ahem......
                  I'll give you that RG3 has mostly kept his cool, but he lets slip with some doozies sometimes, like:

                  http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/85...rookie-mindset

                  Originally posted by RG3
                  “I've done it through the first seven games, and now I don't think there's a player on this team that has any doubt that I'm a leader of a football team, and that every time we step on the football field we have a chance to win, not only because I'm their quarterback, but because they're out there with me.”
                  Some more:

                  http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports...-race/1653303/

                  Originally posted by RG3
                  People have called me 'Superman' my whole life.
                  Originally posted by RG3
                  I don't picture myself as a normal person when I play football. I like to think I can do things that normal people can't.
                  Yea, that's pretty "humble". Could you imagine Luck saying anything like that?
                  Last edited by Kid Minneapolis; 10-25-2012, 09:38 PM.
                  There are two types of quarterbacks in the league: Those whom over time, the league figures out ... and those who figure out the league.

                  Comment


                  • Re: Luck vs Griffin - let it begin.

                    Originally posted by OlBlu View Post
                    Why do you like a mediocre QB so much? Except for on method that no one I can see uses, Luck is the worst or next to worst QB in the NFL. What is there to like. By the way, I didn't think the Colts should have cut Manning to draft Luck but putting that aside and you can look it up, I thought that RGIII was much better and he was going to be a star. I pointed out that some experts had said that they have never seen Luck thrown an NFL pass in college and they had questions about his arm strength.... So, if we were going to take a QB, I was pretty sure they were taking the wrong one. I think I hit a homerun on that one....

                    No you pretty much struck out. Luck is not worst than Brandon Weeden, Tannehill, Cassel, Palmer, Gabbert, Bradford, RG3 Freeman, Alex Smith, Russell Wilson. Luck makes better decisions, better pocket presence, reads defense better than your golden boy griffin. Colts should have cut Manning because of the $28 million and he wasn't going to be the same as he was before and he's gonna last 3 more years anyways. Why waste that money when you can go draft the next great QB in Luck? Luck will be a star. He has a 1 or 2 win team at 3-3. Don't think RG3 could have comeback from 18 down to beat Green Bay. Losses for RG3, @ STL (awful), vs CIN (bad), vs ATL (got knocked out), and @ NYG (choke). Luck losses: @ CHI (poor defenisve effort, few mistakes, top 3 team in NFL, Bears), vs Jags (bad loss all around, defense choke), @ NYJ (terrible defense, poor offensive performance, running and catching). Stats: Redskins are #1 in the league in rushing yards. That means RG3 doesn't have to much because he hands the ball off more than he throws and he runs almost 10 times a game. He throws the most screen passes in the NFL as well. That's why his completion % is 70.4%. Luck is one of the last statistically in QB rating, because he's had two bad games throwing, last week they ran the ball for 146 yards, and he had their 2 rushing TDs. Luck has a 26.4% completion of balls thrown 25+ yards while RG3 has a rate of 13.8%. Luck has completed more 20 and 40 yard passes than RG3. Luck has more passing yards than RG3, Luck is #13 in the league in passing yards, while Griffin is 21st. Luck has attempted 250 passes this season, RG3 has only 189. RG3 has rushed for 468 yards this year, which limits his passes, which doesn't make you a good QB, on mostly designed runs. Luck has 115 yards rushing on almost all scrambles. Stats never lie, Luck is a better QB, not a better runner or athlete than RG3 is, but a better QUARTERBACK. RG3 is just an athlete with a canon of an arm.
                    Smothered Chicken!

                    Comment


                    • Re: Luck vs Griffin - let it begin.

                      Another saying he'd take Luck over RG3:

                      http://www.indystar.com/article/2012...nclick_check=1

                      Bob Kravitz: Despite statistics, I like Andrew Luck over Robert Griffin III

                      6:52 PM, Oct 25, 2012


                      Purchase Image


                      Robert Griffin III (left) and Andrew Luck (right). / Associated Press and Star file photos


                      Written by

                      Bob Kravitz


                      The kid is everywhere. I see Washington Redskins quarterback Robert Griffin III on my TV hawking Subway. I put on "Pardon the Interruption" and Michael Wilbon is talking about him as an MVP candidate. I go to usatoday.com, and there's an exclusive Q-and-A with Griffin in which he talks about how he views himself as a superman on the football field.
                      Robert Griffin III has become Tim Tebow with braids.
                      He's this year's model, America's new sports superstar.
                      I can just imagine being in an ESPN producer meeting: Tebow is old news. We've got to mention Griffin six times an hour. That comes from the top.
                      And good for him. He's a smart, young, electric player with a great personality, a highlight reel for a franchise that hasn't had much luck at the quarterback position in recent years. You will not here a negative word from here about Griffin, who has been everything Washington wanted and more.
                      All of that said, I'll take the Indianapolis Colts' Andrew Luck.
                      Lest you think I'm being a homer who is wearing blue-and-white blinders, let me remind you, I always took New England's Tom Brady over former Colt Peyton Manning in that particular debate.
                      Let me steal -- not semi-plagiarize, but flat-out steal -- some advanced statistics that were shared in a recent New York Times Fifth Down blog by Chase Stuart.
                      (Columnist's note: This involves a lot of math. I don't like math. I took Physics for Poets at Indiana University to fulfill my math and science obligation. I don't know what a lot of these numbers mean, but they look like they mean something, so here goes.)
                      Griffin exceeds Luck in most traditional statistical categories: His 70.4 completion percentage is the best in the league; Luck is 32nd at 53.1. Griffin is averaging 8.5 yards per attempt, Luck 6.7. Griffin is third in traditional quarterback rating; Luck is second to last.
                      But look at the stats that Stuart considered, advanced metrics that tell the fuller story, and you come away believing that Luck is having a very good year, an underrated season.
                      Essentially, the Colts have put a lot more pressure on Luck than Washington has on Griffin.
                      Luck's average pass attempt is the longest in the league at 10.2 yards. Griffin is at 7.9, below the league average of 8.2.
                      Luck's average pass distance on his completions is 8.6 yards, also the highest in the league; Griffin is at 5.8.
                      Only 7 percent of Luck's passes have been targeted to running backs, one of the lowest ratios in the league. He throws to his wide receivers a league-high 72 percent of the time. Griffin, by contrast, has checked down with far more frequency. He is last in the league in passes thrown 15 yards or more down the field.
                      "Is that right?" Luck said when I shared those numbers. "I didn't know any of that."
                      Interim coach Bruce Arians said it's all part of the grand design: "If you go back and look at my history, I throw it deep more than anybody in the league. We do spread people out and throw it quickly; we think we have everything, but we also use our tight ends and backs to help the offensive line. We want to throw it to the guys who are paid to catch it, and hand it off to the guys who are paid to run it. We're not a West Coast offense by any means."
                      Look, numbers can tell any story you want them to tell. We know this to be especially true in a political season, when candidates are casually tossing out numbers -- some of them accurate -- to buttress their cases.
                      But I think a reasonable conclusion can be reached: The Colts are relying more on Luck to throw the ball downfield than Washington is with Griffin. There's a good reason Luck's completion percentage is so low; he's always putting pressure on a defense by going intermediate and deep.
                      This isn't from the Times, but ESPN ranks Luck sixth in its quarterback rating, behind Denver's Peyton Manning, the Giants' Eli Manning, Brady, Atlanta's Matt Ryan and Pittsburgh's Ben Roethlisberger. Griffin is eighth.
                      The bottom line being, they've both been very good given the talent around them and given what their teams ask them to do. It has always seemed foolish to me to build up one player and denigrate another to make a point. Both have been worth the investment as Nos. 1 and 2 picks. Both have walked into difficult situations and produced. And as my old friend and former Colts executive Bill Polian said recently, someday, we may be seeing the pair match up in an early-February Super Bowl down the road.
                      This will not be a Peyton Manning-Ryan Leaf kind of draft.
                      Not a chance.
                      So, I asked the question of Luck, knowing the answer before it was asked: "Does it bother you that ESPN can't go five minutes without mentioning RGIII?"
                      He smiled. "I'll be honest, when I watch ESPN, it's to watch news about other sports," he said. "When they talk about football, I tend to change the station. I put up a little bit of a blockade when it comes to that stuff. I don't even read what you guys write."
                      He laughed. "Even you, Mr. Kravitz."
                      Mr. Kravitz.
                      Man, I'm old.
                      But with age comes wisdom.
                      Last edited by Kid Minneapolis; 10-26-2012, 09:56 AM.
                      There are two types of quarterbacks in the league: Those whom over time, the league figures out ... and those who figure out the league.

                      Comment


                      • Re: Luck vs Griffin - let it begin.

                        Originally posted by BlueNGold View Post
                        Imagine how good he's going to be with more protection, more experience and a better set of weapons. He's already good with a pretty poor team around him.
                        Where and win do you think that is going to come from? It takes year to develop a good offensive line and right now, you only have one player who will be sure to stay barring injury. Perhaps he center too but drafting linemen is an iffy proposition and a 50% success rate with them is really good. You won't get them in free agency because the only ones available will be other teams castoffs. That is why I said it was silly to draft a franchise QB. You have no offensive line, no sign of one building and you need to draft six to eight players there to maybe get four.... I don't like the odds. It adds up to years and years of futility and Luck being pounded into hamburger.....

                        Comment


                        • Re: Luck vs Griffin - let it begin.

                          Originally posted by OlBlu View Post
                          Where and win do you think that is going to come from? It takes year to develop a good offensive line and right now, you only have one player who will be sure to stay barring injury. Perhaps he center too but drafting linemen is an iffy proposition and a 50% success rate with them is really good. You won't get them in free agency because the only ones available will be other teams castoffs. That is why I said it was silly to draft a franchise QB. You have no offensive line, no sign of one building and you need to draft six to eight players there to maybe get four.... I don't like the odds. It adds up to years and years of futility and Luck being pounded into hamburger.....
                          The Colts have an entire draft and almost $40 million in dead money comin' off the books this off-season. You can bet your *** that the o-line will be addressed, along with running back and some spots on defense. Sure it'll take some time to gel, but they should see an immediate improvement in training camp alone, once they've shuffled some guys.

                          The 'Skins... on the other hand..... they are missing some upcoming draft picks.....

                          Like.... the next two first-rounders...
                          Last edited by Kid Minneapolis; 10-25-2012, 09:40 PM.
                          There are two types of quarterbacks in the league: Those whom over time, the league figures out ... and those who figure out the league.

                          Comment


                          • Re: Luck vs Griffin - let it begin.

                            That sounds like a confident person to me.

                            Love how you source his aeticle, but when something soesnt fit your agenda you just discount it, even if its from the same source.

                            Damn the facts, i feel this way so its correct

                            Comment


                            • Re: Luck vs Griffin - let it begin.

                              Of course you perceive it as confidence.

                              And huh?
                              There are two types of quarterbacks in the league: Those whom over time, the league figures out ... and those who figure out the league.

                              Comment


                              • Re: Luck vs Griffin - let it begin.

                                Originally posted by Kid Minneapolis View Post
                                The Colts have an entire draft and almost $40 million in dead money comin' off the books this off-season. You can bet your *** that the o-line will be addressed, along with running back and some spots on defense. Sure it'll take some time to gel, but they should see an immediate improvement in training camp alone, once they've shuffled some guys.

                                The 'Skins... on the other hand..... they are missing some upcoming draft picks.....

                                Like.... the next two first-rounders...
                                You only have so many draft picks and teams just haven't been built on free agents. Washington is a good example of that although they are going to try again. They will find a way. Free agents are always players their previous team no long want. That is because while they once may have been stars, they are declining and not worth free agent money. So, you are left to the draft. That is 50-50 and you need 15 to 25 players to replace deadwood and castoffs you already have. They won't get it done. Washington may not either but I think their management is much better than the Colts. They were smart enough, afterall, to select the right QB in the draft who could really play right now..... Reggie, Wayne, Freeney and Mathis only have a season or two left so they will have to be replaced too...

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X