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Thread: Luck vs Griffin - let it begin.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pacer4ever View Post
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    No way, Luck has been ok for a QB great for a rookie. However RG and hell even Russel Wilson have had much better rookie seasons. RG is clearly the rookie of the year it really shouldn't even be a debate.
    Game is more than stats. Just sayin statistically RG3 is having an amazing year...but no one has been more clutch than luck...

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    Default Re: Luck vs Griffin - let it begin.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kid Minneapolis View Post
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    I've always said that Cousins is a baller. I think he's not as far behind RG3 as people think, and RG3 isn't all that he's cracked up to be. THe good news for Washington is... they have two pretty good quarterbacks. If RG3 was to miss extended time, I think they'd be pretty damn happy with Cousins, and you know what? They might be better.
    LOL not all he is cracked upped to be? What are you watching?The dude is easily a top 5 QB this year and arguably a top 3 QB.

    Brady and Rodgers are the only two who are defiantly better than him this year(you could debate Manning should be in with Brady and Rodgers).


    But statements like these just make the Colts fan base look LOL I hear this kind of stuff from Colts fans all the time. Same thing they all use to say about Brady, The dude is over hyped and overrated its just lol.

    If you take the blinders off you would realize how good that kid is in Washington DC is and respect what he did this year.

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    Default Re: Luck vs Griffin - let it begin.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dgreenwell3 View Post
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    Game is more than stats. Just sayin statistically RG3 is having an amazing year...but no one has been more clutch than luck...
    so which is it Colts fans stats who more clutch?

    Especially for awards it has always been about who has the best numbers.

    During the Manning years it was always "Brady doesn't have Manning stats"


    RG3 has been clutch too there is more to clutch than game winning drives BTW. I don't look at stats primary I watched RG play with Wilson and they were both better than Luck this year.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pacer4ever View Post
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    LOL not all he is cracked upped to be? What are you watching?The dude is easily a top 5 QB this year and arguably a top 3 QB.

    Brady and Rodgers are the only two who are defiantly better than him this year(you could debate Manning should be in with Brady and Rodgers).


    But statements like these just make the Colts fan base look LOL I hear this kind of stuff from Colts fans all the time. Same thing they all use to say about Brady, The dude is over hyped and overrated its just lol.

    If you take the blinders off you would realize how good that kid is in Washington DC is and respect what he did this year.
    K we'll see.

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    Default Re: Luck vs Griffin - let it begin.

    Quote Originally Posted by pacer4ever View Post
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    No way, Luck has been ok for a QB great for a rookie. However RG and hell even Russel Wilson have had much better rookie seasons. RG is clearly the rookie of the year it really shouldn't even be a debate.
    If all you look at is passer rating and then call it a day based on that, then yeah, I guess it's no debate. But there is far more too it than that.

    Luck has thrown the ball 200 more times than RGIII. He has been asked to do far more things with his arm than RGIII. Luck also hasn't had the benefit of having a 1200 yard rusher on his team like RGIII has with Morris. The success of Morris shows that RGIII has had a good line in front of him all year long. Same with Russell Wilson. Yeah he has been awesome too, but he has Marshawn Lynch on his team. The success of Lynch shows that they have a solid O-Line too. True Luck has Wayne, but I was losing those two backs as evidence of how Wilson and RGIII have better lines.

    Luck took over a franchise that had completely revolved around one of the greatest players in NFL history. Most thought we were going to be near the bottom of the NFL this season. He has completely given the Colts a whole new swagger as a rookie. He has six come from behind wins. He's doing this with a bunch of dead cap, a poor O-Line, and a bunch of other rookies around him. Seriously, the O-Line is atrocious. Luck has been able to compensate a lot this year by making plays on his feet and throwing good balls, but sometimes it's just too much to overcome. For Manning's sake, I'm glad he didn't have to play behind that line this year because he couldn't dodge bullets with his feet like Luck can. That's one thing people don't consider when they say that the Colts should have kept Manning. Sure Manning looks great, but it would have been rough watching him behind that line this year since he can't make plays on his feet like Luck can.

    Any rookie that has to throw the ball as much as Luck behind a poor O-Line is likely going to have a bad passer rating. But there is far more too it than that.

    I'm not saying you can't make a very compelling case for RGIII. He clearly deserves any vote he gets. But it's not an open and shut case like you make it out to be.
    Last edited by Sollozzo; 12-17-2012 at 12:52 AM.

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    Default Re: Luck vs Griffin - let it begin.

    Quote Originally Posted by pacer4ever View Post
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    LOL not all he is cracked upped to be? What are you watching?The dude is easily a top 5 QB this year and arguably a top 3 QB.

    Brady and Rodgers are the only two who are defiantly better than him this year(you could debate Manning should be in with Brady and Rodgers).


    But statements like these just make the Colts fan base look LOL I hear this kind of stuff from Colts fans all the time. Same thing they all use to say about Brady, The dude is over hyped and overrated its just lol.

    If you take the blinders off you would realize how good that kid is in Washington DC is and respect what he did this year.
    Manning is better than RGIII and I don't see how that's even debatable. Manning has 12 more touchdowns, over 1000 more yards, 9 straight wins, and has transformed the Broncos from borderline playoff team to Super Bowl contender. And in what world has Rodgers had a better season than Manning? What has Rodgers done better than Manning this year? I can't think of anything.
    Last edited by Sollozzo; 12-17-2012 at 01:08 AM.

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    Default Re: Luck vs Griffin - let it begin.

    Alex Smith has a 104.1 passer rating, but was benched. It's a lot easier to have a high passer rating when you don't throw the ball that much. Russell Wilson has the luxury of having Marshawn Lynch on his team and that is who the defenses plan for when they face Seattle. If he had to throw the ball 200 more times this year (which would put him where Luck is), then I guarantee you his stats wouldn't be as pretty.

    Going into this week, RGIII had a 104.2 passer rating, which ties him with Brady. Has RGIII had an equal season to Brady? Absolutely not. Brady has thrown it 495 times compared to RGIII's 351. If RGIII had about 100 more attempts on the season with the same passer rating, then I would agree that it's no debate between RGIII and Luck. But Luck has been asked to do more with his arm. 537 attempts for Luck. The Colts are practically running him into the ground.

    Again, none of this is meant to say that RGIII doesn't deserve the ROY award. He deserves any vote he gets. But this isn't some open and shut case.
    Last edited by Sollozzo; 12-17-2012 at 01:09 AM.

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    Default Re: Luck vs Griffin - let it begin.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sollozzo View Post
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    Manning is better than RGIII and I don't see how that's even debatable. Manning has 12 more touchdowns, over 1000 more yards, 9 straight wins, and has transformed the Broncos from borderline playoff team to Super Bowl contender. And in what world has Rodgers had a better season than Manning? What has Rodgers done better than Manning this year? I can't think of anything.
    I agree I kind of forgot him writing the post and added him last second. Manning and Rodgers are in the same class this year a notch just below Brady. RG to me has been the 4th best QB this year a tier slightly below them. Passer rating has nothing to do with it just watch RG play and you see why he is a top 5 qb this year. That Thanksgiving game for example the dude was unstoppable.
    Last edited by pacer4ever; 12-17-2012 at 01:14 AM.

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    Default Re: Luck vs Griffin - let it begin.

    Quote Originally Posted by Trader Joe View Post
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    Like I've been saying, the first time these two dudes meet in a super bowl, is going to be absolutely insane.
    Quote Originally Posted by pacer4ever View Post
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    No way, Luck has been ok for a QB great for a rookie. However RG and hell even Russel Wilson have had much better rookie seasons. RG is clearly the rookie of the year it really shouldn't even be a debate.
    That is inaccurate, I can agree with you on most basketball related stuff, but honestly your tripping right now with that statement.
    Why so SERIOUS

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    Default Re: Luck vs Griffin - let it begin.

    Quote Originally Posted by pacer4ever View Post
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    I agree I kind of forgot him writing the post and added him last second. Manning and Rodgers are in the same class this year a notch just below Brady. RG to me has been the 4th best QB this year a tier slightly below them. Passer rating has nothing to do with it just watch RG play and you see why he is a top 5 qb this year. That Thanksgiving game for example the dude was unstoppable.
    There is no way I could put RG ahead of Matt Ryan or Drew Brees.

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    Default Re: Luck vs Griffin - let it begin.

    A couple of things, so when you listen to P4E you have to realize first that he is a Bears fan, lol that helps put stuff in context, j/p j/p.

    But in all honesty there are vast differences in how the Qb's are being used, and that is neither Lucks fault or RGIII's, I felt like they went to the best teams for their talents, I don't think either would have been as successful had the teams been switched, well Luck possibly, but I doubt that as well. Luck has had some bad accuracy issues at times this year, and would not have Wayne to help out make fantastic catches, but would also have a better line and a running game which would not cause him to force passes as much as he has to in Indy right now which would improve his accuracy situation.

    Anyways I always feel it is a combination of stats and in game play as well, as I have said before stats do not tell much of what goes on during the game, all of these awards are about perception anyways, who is perceived to be better, some will say Luck, some will say RGIII a few will say Wilson, this is why no matter what you go by I could see this turning out to end up being a 2 way tie, and possibly 3 way with the strides that Wilson has made throughout the season, he started off pretty slow, and there was talks of him being benched, but when they just let him play he started showing up.

    For me looking at both RGIII and Luck I feel that a dual ROY would be the best way to go, what both have done has been remarkable in their own ways, and at this point Wilson sliding in would not be out of the question, but I think he is a step behind both, you have to remember his defense has been playing lights out, and his running game is ridiculous, he has not had the weight on his shoulders that either has had and I believe that is a big factor especially for rookie QB's.
    Why so SERIOUS

  16. #1662

    Default Re: Luck vs Griffin - let it begin.

    ITs an asinine comment plan and simple. I think he will be good but its completely premature and the mere fact that he hasn't played in one game and finished 2 sort of puts a damper on all of that talk. Now I think RG is better than Wilson because I can understand that the Seahawks D is much better and I highly doubt either one would be as efficient without their top 5 running game.

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    Default Re: Luck vs Griffin - let it begin.

    You really have to consider the teams they play on. Indy had the worst team last year and this year have a bunch of piecemeal parts and rookies playing. The Redskins have a terrific running game and a defense that can actually help his team. The Seahawks also have a very good running game and a terrific defense that gives the offense a ton of opportunities. The Colts do no have any of these things. In addition, we play a heavy vertical offense with very few easy throws and lots of opportunities with for mistakes. Not to mention, our offensive line is horrendous and AL is getting beat up every week. In addition to the heavy throw load, the dude is wearing down. In spite of that, we are 9-5 and will get into the playoffs.

    That being said, if the Redskins do make the playoffs, then RG3 deserves ROY. But all 3 have been terrific, I think we can all just agree on that.
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    Default Re: Luck vs Griffin - let it begin.

    Quote Originally Posted by Suaveness View Post
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    You really have to consider the teams they play on. Indy had the worst team last year and this year have a bunch of piecemeal parts and rookies playing. The Redskins have a terrific running game and a defense that can actually help his team. The Seahawks also have a very good running game and a terrific defense that gives the offense a ton of opportunities. The Colts do no have any of these things. In addition, we play a heavy vertical offense with very few easy throws and lots of opportunities with for mistakes. Not to mention, our offensive line is horrendous and AL is getting beat up every week. In addition to the heavy throw load, the dude is wearing down. In spite of that, we are 9-5 and will get into the playoffs.

    That being said, if the Redskins do make the playoffs, then RG3 deserves ROY. But all 3 have been terrific, I think we can all just agree on that.
    My God, can you imagine if Luck had Marshawn Lynch and the O-Line that Russel Wilson enjoys in Seattle?

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    Default Re: Luck vs Griffin - let it begin.

    I don't know how much this matters, nor how much RGIII or Wilson benefit. But the one thing I wonder about is how much better could Luck be/look if our defense ever gave him short fields to work with from turnovers. I think I heard during yesterday's game that we have the worst defense since like 1950 in terms of creating turnovers. And trust me its freaking terrible this year. But it seems like Luck never gets to have the ball starting in enemy territory. Not to mention that 2 of the 10 takeaways we have were returned for touchdowns.

    Edit: I decided to look up some stats.

    The Colts have 10 takeaways, The Seahawks have 28, and the Redskins have 26.

    Trying to find average starting position for the offense, but can't find one that's not kick return exclusive.
    Last edited by Richard_Skull; 12-17-2012 at 02:29 PM.
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    Default Re: Luck vs Griffin - let it begin.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gamble1 View Post
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    I think he will be good but its completely premature and the mere fact that he hasn't played in one game and finished 2 sort of puts a damper on all of that talk.
    This. I've always thought that missed games should make it much harder to win these season-ending awards. You've got to be there when it counts.
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    Default Re: Luck vs Griffin - let it begin.

    Quote Originally Posted by Richard_Skull View Post
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    I don't know how much this matters, nor how much RGIII or Wilson benefit. But the one thing I wonder about is how much better could Luck be/look if our defense ever gave him short fields to work with from turnovers. I think I heard during yesterday's game that we have the worst defense since like 1950 in terms of creating turnovers. And trust me its freaking terrible this year. But it seems like Luck never gets to have the ball starting in enemy territory. Not to mention that 2 of the 10 takeaways we have were returned for touchdowns.

    Edit: I decided to look up some stats.

    The Colts have 10 takeaways, The Seahawks have 28, and the Redskins have 26.

    Trying to find average starting position for the offense, but can't find one that's not kick return exclusive.
    Yup, that would help out as well, our defense has gotten a lot better verse the run, not so much in the passing game, but our biggest problem is that we have no playmakers, Mathis possibly, but Freeney, I think he is just about average at this point in his career, Redding when healthy, and Butler possibly but he has a lot of weaknesses.

    Honestly there are 4 major aspects I think to creating turnovers, scheme, pressure from the front 7, playmakers and Luck. Right now we are lacking in all of those areas, I will say this and I know many won't agree, but I was in the boat of taking Janoris Jenkins in the 2nd instead of Fleener, I understood the reasoning behind making one decision and not making the other, but we had a guy that was at a big position of need, and he was a playmaker, and if not for off the field issues he would have been a top 10 pick.

    Even though we did not go that route last year I would like to see us take a shot at Tyrann Mathieu in the later part of the draft possibly 4th rd, I think at that point he will be a steal, not much money invested, and even though he is not as good of corner as Jenkins, well atleast at the NFL level, he still has tons of potential.... AND HE IS A PLAYMAKER....
    Why so SERIOUS

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    Default Re: Luck vs Griffin - let it begin.

    Quote Originally Posted by pacer4ever View Post
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    RG3 has been clutch too there is more to clutch than game winning drives BTW. I don't look at stats primary I watched RG play with Wilson and they were both better than Luck this year.
    Luck went to a 2-14 team with the worst offensive line in the league. His starting RB, TEs, and #2 WR are rookies.

    Wilson and RGIII went to teams with competent rosters, excellent running games, and more than respectable defenses. Luck has none of that yet still is 9-5 and has the Colts on the verge of a playoff berth.

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    Default Re: Luck vs Griffin - let it begin.

    Luck will be practically be unstoppable once he gets three things:

    1) Experience to fix the rookie mistakes. The overthrows, not knowing when to throw the ball away, etc etc.

    2) A good O-Line like Manning had in the mid 2000's. One that won't hang him out to dry like yesterday.

    3) A running game like the Redskins have right now. If opponents have to respect our running attack like they did back in the Edge days then watch out. I really like what Ballard has shown recently. It would be nice if he morphed into something. Looks like another excellent Grigson addition.
    Last edited by Sollozzo; 12-17-2012 at 09:07 PM.

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    Default Re: Luck vs Griffin - let it begin.

    An o-line would solve a lot of stuff.
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    Default Re: Luck vs Griffin - let it begin.

    Quote Originally Posted by Trader Joe View Post
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    Like I've been saying, the first time these two dudes meet in a super bowl, is going to be absolutely insane.
    Quote Originally Posted by hoosierguy View Post
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    Luck went to a 2-14 team with the worst offensive line in the league. His starting RB, TEs, and #2 WR are rookies.

    Wilson and RGIII went to teams with competent rosters, excellent running games, and more than respectable defenses. Luck has none of that yet still is 9-5 and has the Colts on the verge of a playoff berth.
    I mean a lot of the Redskins offense is new, they also have a rookie RB, and played a lot of the year without their #1 WR, and many of the WR's on their team were new to the team. One thing I will give Redskinds is their defense had playmakers, and their o-line and scheme is built for RB's be successful.

    But looking past that RGIII has done a marvelous job no matter what he was given, nothing that he has can take that away.....
    Why so SERIOUS

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    Default Re: Luck vs Griffin - let it begin.

    Quote Originally Posted by Really? View Post
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    I mean a lot of the Redskins offense is new, they also have a rookie RB, and played a lot of the year without their #1 WR, and many of the WR's on their team were new to the team. One thing I will give Redskinds is their defense had playmakers, and their o-line and scheme is built for RB's be successful.

    But looking past that RGIII has done a marvelous job no matter what he was given, nothing that he has can take that away.....

    True, losing Garcon hurt. I always was big on Garcon here.

    I agree that you can't take anything away from RGIII and I have no trouble with him winning the award. I just completely disagree with people who say that it's an open and shut debate for RGIII.

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    Default Re: Luck vs Griffin - let it begin.

    I don't disagree either that RG3 has put in an impressive year... I just don't think it's equalled Luck's.
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    Default Re: Luck vs Griffin - let it begin.

    Quote Originally Posted by hoosierguy View Post
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    Luck went to a 2-14 team with the worst offensive line in the league. His starting RB, TEs, and #2 WR are rookies.

    Wilson and RGIII went to teams with competent rosters, excellent running games, and more than respectable defenses. Luck has none of that yet still is 9-5 and has the Colts on the verge of a playoff berth.
    I keep hearing this, I just dont buy it

    If Peyton does not go down, the Colts are a sure playoff team, probably a SB contender.

    No doubt Luck has had a great year, but I think the 2-14 just showed how great Peyton was and how crappy the old management team was.

    The Colts are better then a lot of people here like to give credit IMO, hell if the Colts have a decent QB last year I honestly think they area .500 team

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    Default Re: Luck vs Griffin - let it begin.

    Quote Originally Posted by Really? View Post
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    I mean a lot of the Redskins offense is new, they also have a rookie RB, and played a lot of the year without their #1 WR, and many of the WR's on their team were new to the team. One thing I will give Redskinds is their defense had playmakers, and their o-line and scheme is built for RB's be successful.

    But looking past that RGIII has done a marvelous job no matter what he was given, nothing that he has can take that away.....
    And we have D. Hall.

    I could burn D. Hall on a double move.......

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