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Thread: Luck vs Griffin - let it begin.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OlBlu View Post
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    Well, I thought Green Bay was better but I wonder now. Aaron Rogers seemed to think that game was over at the half.... Farve would not have done that.... ...
    Not really a"thanks" per say but I notice you didn't run away until something bad happens this time. GB may not be playing like a 15-1 team this year, but the colts(and luck) are far better than you will admit. Has to burn you up to be proven wrong on your predictions a quarter of the way through the season.

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    Default Re: Luck vs Griffin - let it begin.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kid Minneapolis View Post
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    Imo, RG3 doesn't have higher potential than Luck, not even close actually. He has a lot, but not like Luck.
    I agree, I have no idea what people are talking about with RGIII and this "unlimited" potential. He is a great QB prospect no doubt, but what is it he does so well, other than run and throw a pretty deep ball? It takes a lot more than that, to be great. Plus, Griffin will always struggle to stay healthy if he uses his great physical gifts as a runner, and he's not much better than Luck in that area anyways.

    It reminds me of Manning vs. Leaf all over again. Griffin obviously isn't Leaf and Luck isn't Manning, but the argument is the same. Better arm, more athletic, etc. Even if Leaf wasn't a complete tool, he would of never been as good as Manning. Mannings intangibles were his strength as a player, and I think Luck is from the same cloth. The difference is, Luck is a great athlete too.

    The thing people are missing about Luck is his rare feel for the game, and his physical toughness. Those things can't be taught, and his feel will only get sharper as he gets older and more experienced. RGII doesn't really have that, at least to that degree. Plus, Andrew has the size and athleticism to be just as effective as a runner, maybe even moreso. He made 4-5 great plays with his feet in the game vs GB. And he runs with the ball like a TE. His deep ball will definitely improve in time, as will everything else.

    Remember, Luck is quite possibly replacing the GOAT at the QB position. He also has been under tremendous pressure playing behind a patchwork offensive line, and he also has the youngest supporting cast in the league with 6 other rookies on offense who play regularly. So anyone who hasn't been impressed with the kid clearly has some pretty lofty expectations. He has been even better than advertised, and it's scary to think how good he'll be with a better supporting cast and more experience.

    If the Colts had taken Griffin, Oldblu would be scolding Jim Irsay for passing on the best QB prospect ever. Guaranteed.

    Quote Originally Posted by OlBlu View Post
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    He may be a very solid dude but he can't keep taking the pounding that he is and survive unscathed. RGIII is very solid too but a concussion can happen to anyone and it will....... ...
    So you don't think some players are more prone to concussions than others? Or the fact that Luck is significantly bigger than RGIII might help him avoid minor, nagging injuries? I disagree.

    The hit RGIII took wasn't a a brutal one, so if I were the Redskins I would be very worried.
    Last edited by Taterhead; 10-10-2012 at 03:58 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Indra View Post
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    From all of the numbers I can find, Manning is listed at 230 pounds and Luck is listed at 234. So Luck is actually 1" shorter, but 4 or 5 pounds heavier. They say that for every inch in height it's equal to 10 pounds, so for Luck to be an inch shorter and 5 pounds heavier is like being 15 pounds heavier than Manning as far as build goes. And I think that's right. Luck has bigger everything. Arms, chest, legs, core. He's a very solid dude.
    I'm not saying Luck is small, lol, don't get all up in arms. Last I knew Luck was 10 lbs lighter, just saying. Joe said he was physically bigger, and I get what he's saying, he's just not using the right phrase because technically being 1 inch taller and 10 lbs heavier does mean you're bigger, lol. That said Manning has never been a strength freak or very athletic. They obviousky have different builds and carry their weight differently. Hell I bet Bob Sanders could own Manning in a brawl but that doesn't mean he's physically bigger.

    Luck is just much stronger and athletic.

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    Last edited by Kid Minneapolis; 10-10-2012 at 04:13 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ace E.Anderson View Post
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    That's all there is to go off of at this point.
    Not true, lol.

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    Default Re: Luck vs Griffin - let it begin.

    Quote Originally Posted by Taterhead View Post
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    I agree, I have no idea what people are talking about with RGIII and this "unlimited" potential. He is a great QB prospect no doubt, but what is it he does so well, other than run and throw a pretty deep ball? It takes a lot more than that, to be great. Plus, Griffin will always struggle to stay healthy if he uses his great physical gifts as a runner, and he's not much better than Luck in that area anyways.

    It reminds me of Manning vs. Leaf all over again. Griffin obviously isn't Leaf and Luck isn't Manning, but the argument is the same. Better arm, more athletic, etc. Even if Leaf wasn't a complete tool, he would of never been as good as Manning. Mannings intangibles were his strength as a player, and I think Luck is from the same cloth. The difference is, Luck is a great athlete too.

    The thing people are missing about Luck is his rare feel for the game, and his physical toughness. Those things can't be taught, and his feel will only get sharper as he gets older and more experienced. RGII doesn't really have that, at least to that degree. Plus, Andrew has the size and athleticism to be just as effective as a runner, maybe even moreso. He made 4-5 great plays with his feet in the game vs GB. And he runs with the ball like a TE. His deep ball will definitely improve in time, as will everything else.

    Remember, Luck is quite possibly replacing the GOAT at the QB position. He also has been under tremendous pressure playing behind a patchwork offensive line, and he also has the youngest supporting cast in the league with 6 other rookies on offense who play regularly. So anyone who hasn't been impressed with the kid clearly has some pretty lofty expectations. He has been even better than advertised, and it's scary to think how good he'll be with a better supporting cast and more experience.

    If the Colts had taken Griffin, Oldblu would be scolding Jim Irsay for passing on the best QB prospect ever. Guaranteed.



    So you don't think some players are more prone to concussions than others? Or the fact that Luck is significantly bigger than RGIII might help him avoid minor, nagging injuries? I disagree.

    The hit RGIII took wasn't a a brutal one, so if I were the Redskins I would be very worried.
    If Luck has such a great feel for the game, why is his completion percentage barely over 54%?

    Yes he has impressed, and he has put us in a position to win the last 3 games. BUT there are plenty of times where he hasn't produced, in key situations. (pretty much most of the Bears game, 3rd qtr's against the Vikings and the Jags, the INT against GB, the 3 and out against GB where they went down and scored)

    I mean we talk about him as if he is already the best QB in the league or an MVP candidate or something. He's done very very well, but there are still many times when he misfires on a simple crossing route, misfires on a deep ball, has silly turnover's, etc. Of course he'll improve on these things with more time and experience, but I just feel the talk of him being this great QB is a bit premature. Maybe I'm cynical for the sake of being cynical lol but Luck is right about where I figured he would be, and is playing the way a number one overall draft pick SHOULD play.

    However, I still don't think it's fair when we compare him to RGIII at all. We try and make it seem like he's light years ahead of RGIII, when Griffin has better stats in key departments, and up until last week was receiving most of the media hype. (maybe doesn't mean a whole lot, but he had a lot of NFL fans buzzing about his skills)

    I agree that RGIII has a smaller grasp of the playbook, and is only throwing to half the field, etc. But I've watched their games, and the kid is accurate in the pocket. Most of his runs are ENGINEERED runs, and not him simply escaping the pocket. Yes he does escape, but not nearly as much as one is led to believe on this board.

    If it weren't for Josh Morgan's boneheadedness, the Skins could very easily be 3-2. Had he not gotten hurt, maybe they beat the Falcon's. And yes, you could say if Sergio Brown could have kept the WR from JAX in front of him, the colts could be 3-1. That's the name of the game.

    Bottom line, I agree to disagree with a few of you guys. Each player has their strengths (RGIII--explosive deep-play ability, accuracy, "swag"; Luck-- no huddle offense, playbook comprehension, size, "toughness") and weaknesses (RGIII--size, playbook comprehension, Mike Shannahan lol; Luck--consistency, deep ball accuracy, "locking onto" receivers)

    All in all; I think think they're are neck and neck, potentially giving Luck an edge in playbook comprehension. But should we be worried that Luck understands our entire playbook but cant complete 60% of his passes, whereas RGIII has a limited understanding of the playbook and has a much higher completion %?

    Of course not, because he'll improve. But we shouldn't claim that Luck's strengths are superior to RGIII's strengths; because i think those ideas are simply in the eye of the beholder.

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    Default Re: Luck vs Griffin - let it begin.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ace E.Anderson View Post
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    All in all; I think think they're are neck and neck, potentially giving Luck an edge in playbook comprehension. But should we be worried that Luck understands our entire playbook but cant complete 60% of his passes, whereas RGIII has a limited understanding of the playbook and has a much higher completion %?
    Completion percentage is a 2 way street. A player like Hilton or Coby Fleener can kill your drive if they drop the ball. In part it is the learning curve but its not just for the QB but also for the rookie WR's and TE's. This is why I go back to the 3rd down conversions. Luck completes a high percentage and that helps in field adavantage even if you don't sustain a drive let alone scoring on a drive.

    The scheme of the Redskins is effective. They will kill you with the play action and if the safeties stay back they will kill you on the run plays. ITs a dumb down system to make it easier for the rookie Qb and if the roles were reversed I would say RG3 is having a better season and Luck is not based on the pro style offense that is sustainable in the NFL.

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    Default Re: Luck vs Griffin - let it begin.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ace E.Anderson View Post
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    If Luck has such a great feel for the game, why is his completion percentage barely over 54%?

    Yes he has impressed, and he has put us in a position to win the last 3 games. BUT there are plenty of times where he hasn't produced, in key situations. (pretty much most of the Bears game, 3rd qtr's against the Vikings and the Jags, the INT against GB, the 3 and out against GB where they went down and scored)

    I mean we talk about him as if he is already the best QB in the league or an MVP candidate or something. He's done very very well, but there are still many times when he misfires on a simple crossing route, misfires on a deep ball, has silly turnover's, etc. Of course he'll improve on these things with more time and experience, but I just feel the talk of him being this great QB is a bit premature. Maybe I'm cynical for the sake of being cynical lol but Luck is right about where I figured he would be, and is playing the way a number one overall draft pick SHOULD play.

    However, I still don't think it's fair when we compare him to RGIII at all. We try and make it seem like he's light years ahead of RGIII, when Griffin has better stats in key departments, and up until last week was receiving most of the media hype. (maybe doesn't mean a whole lot, but he had a lot of NFL fans buzzing about his skills)

    I agree that RGIII has a smaller grasp of the playbook, and is only throwing to half the field, etc. But I've watched their games, and the kid is accurate in the pocket. Most of his runs are ENGINEERED runs, and not him simply escaping the pocket. Yes he does escape, but not nearly as much as one is led to believe on this board.

    If it weren't for Josh Morgan's boneheadedness, the Skins could very easily be 3-2. Had he not gotten hurt, maybe they beat the Falcon's. And yes, you could say if Sergio Brown could have kept the WR from JAX in front of him, the colts could be 3-1. That's the name of the game.

    Bottom line, I agree to disagree with a few of you guys. Each player has their strengths (RGIII--explosive deep-play ability, accuracy, "swag"; Luck-- no huddle offense, playbook comprehension, size, "toughness") and weaknesses (RGIII--size, playbook comprehension, Mike Shannahan lol; Luck--consistency, deep ball accuracy, "locking onto" receivers)

    All in all; I think think they're are neck and neck, potentially giving Luck an edge in playbook comprehension. But should we be worried that Luck understands our entire playbook but cant complete 60% of his passes, whereas RGIII has a limited understanding of the playbook and has a much higher completion %?

    Of course not, because he'll improve. But we shouldn't claim that Luck's strengths are superior to RGIII's strengths; because i think those ideas are simply in the eye of the beholder.
    Because he has been under constant pressure, and playing with 6 other rookies on offense.

    Beyond that he is asked to make much tougher throws than Griffin typically is.

    You saw the difference pressure can make when it comes to QB play in the GB game. Rodgers looked like an MVP in the first half with time to throw, but under pressure in the second half he looked more like Blaine Gabbert at times. I have watched Griffin a lot this year as well and he hasn't been under the consistent pressure that Andrew Luck has, not even close. He's also not replacing Peyton Manning. So it's not fair to pretend that they have been playing under the same circumstances.

    Luck has always been regarded as the better QB prospect and Griffin has done nothing to change that.
    Last edited by Taterhead; 10-10-2012 at 05:31 PM.

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    Default Re: Luck vs Griffin - let it begin.

    Luck just out played the MVP. If he isn't an elite QB, then he isn't too far behind. RG3 doesn't have a signature win. Luck gets drilled, and gets right back up like a man. Griffen gets popped, and he is out of the game. Luck is tougher and a better leader than RG3
    David "And One" West

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    Default Re: Luck vs Griffin - let it begin.

    Leadership- Luck
    Toughness- Luck
    Decision making- Luck
    Accuracy-Luck
    Arm strength-even
    Foot speeed- RG3
    David "And One" West

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    Luck has no run game either, so the defenses just throw defenders back in coverage. Skins like lead the league in rushing.

    Luck has also faced 4 top fifteen pass defenses, while skins have faced one in five.

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    Last edited by Kid Minneapolis; 10-10-2012 at 06:33 PM.
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    Default Re: Luck vs Griffin - let it begin.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pacergeek View Post
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    Luck just out played the MVP. If he isn't an elite QB, then he isn't too far behind. RG3 doesn't have a signature win. Luck gets drilled, and gets right back up like a man. Griffen gets popped, and he is out of the game. Luck is tougher and a better leader than RG3
    This is plain stupid, idiotic, and ignorant at best.

    RG3 has been hit a **** ton this season, and the one time he doesnt get up (when he had a....you know....concussion) he is all of the sudden not tough and not a leader.

    RG3 is one of the best leaders this organization has had in a long time (when the last time you saw a rookie QB get as much respect from teammates as both RG3 and Luck do? Its atestameny to both of the you g men) and frankly i am surprised Rober hasnt fumbled/gotten hurt on some of te brutal blind side hots he has taken.

    I have no problem with some homerism here and there (hell i know i do it) bit effing JC what you just said well beyond homerism and well into pure hatred. Its an ugly luck, and to ve blunt it makes you look really uneducated

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    Default Re: Luck vs Griffin - let it begin.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pacergeek View Post
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    Leadership- Luck
    Toughness- Luck
    Decision making- Luck
    Accuracy-Luck
    Arm strength-even
    Foot speeed- RG3
    I am glad you are a big fan of Luck. To say they are even in arm strength is absurd. It looks like RGIII makes enough good decisions while Luck, well, not so much. I will give you that Luck is a more accurage short passer. Toughness? Too little data yet. Yes, RGIII got concussed and Luck is taking a beating. Luck's next big hit could be his last so who would be the toughest then? I think Luck was great this week but RGIII is way ahead of him on the season except for yards because he doesn't make 50 passes per game.... ... Leadership? I don't think there is enough data to determine that yet. Both teams believe in their QB....

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    Default Re: Luck vs Griffin - let it begin.

    Quote Originally Posted by vapacersfan View Post
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    This is plain stupid, idiotic, and ignorant at best.

    RG3 has been hit a **** ton this season, and the one time he doesnt get up (when he had a....you know....concussion) he is all of the sudden not tough and not a leader.

    RG3 is one of the best leaders this organization has had in a long time (when the last time you saw a rookie QB get as much respect from teammates as both RG3 and Luck do? Its atestameny to both of the you g men) and frankly i am surprised Rober hasnt fumbled/gotten hurt on some of te brutal blind side hots he has taken.

    I have no problem with some homerism here and there (hell i know i do it) bit effing JC what you just said well beyond homerism and well into pure hatred. Its an ugly luck, and to ve blunt it makes you look really uneducated
    For one, I want to commend you for being irritated enough with that silly post to post a message from your phone, errors and all. Bravo, sir.

    Second, I think that particular poster is just prone to extremes in some of his posts. I believe it was he who was convinced the Colts were going 0-16 after the first game, so calling him a homer may be a tad off base. Just a sensationalist.

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    Default Re: Luck vs Griffin - let it begin.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ace E.Anderson View Post
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    If Luck has such a great feel for the game, why is his completion percentage barely over 54%?
    Did you ask this when Peyton threw 55% in his first 4?

    Besides that defenses know Luck is going to throw more. He's thrown 177 passes in 4 games. RGIII has thrown 139 in 5 games. Teams don't gear up to stop the pass as much as they do with us. They can actually run the ball.

    Besides that I would love to see where the Colts stand in the NFL in drops.

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    Default Re: Luck vs Griffin - let it begin.

    I am sitting in bumper to bumper rush hour traacking moving 1 inch every hour. :P

    yeah, i still need to get usedto my virtual keyboard. Lol

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    Default Re: Luck vs Griffin - let it begin.

    Quote Originally Posted by xBulletproof View Post
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    Did you ask this when Peyton threw 55% in his first 4?

    Besides that defenses know Luck is going to throw more. He's thrown 177 passes in 4 games. RGIII has thrown 139 in 5 games. Teams don't gear up to stop the pass as much as they do with us. They can actually run the ball.

    Besides that I would love to see where the Colts stand in the NFL in drops.
    I would also. Only caught a few Colts games, but it sure seems the Skins can drop wide open passes w the best of them (of course thats true for our O and D

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    Default Re: Luck vs Griffin - let it begin.

    So you don't think some players are more prone to concussions than others? Or the fact that Luck is significantly bigger than RGIII might help him avoid minor, nagging injuries? I disagree.

    The hit RGIII took wasn't a a brutal one, so if I were the Redskins I would be very worried.[/QUOTE]

    The hit that Luck took that was incorrectly called for a penalty was also brutal. The fact is that Luck is taking more punishing hits than RGIII. It will catch up with him before the season is over..... ...

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    Default Re: Luck vs Griffin - let it begin.

    Quote Originally Posted by vapacersfan View Post
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    This is plain stupid, idiotic, and ignorant at best.

    RG3 has been hit a **** ton this season, and the one time he doesnt get up (when he had a....you know....concussion) he is all of the sudden not tough and not a leader.

    RG3 is one of the best leaders this organization has had in a long time (when the last time you saw a rookie QB get as much respect from teammates as both RG3 and Luck do? Its atestameny to both of the you g men) and frankly i am surprised Rober hasnt fumbled/gotten hurt on some of te brutal blind side hots he has taken.

    I have no problem with some homerism here and there (hell i know i do it) bit effing JC what you just said well beyond homerism and well into pure hatred. Its an ugly luck, and to ve blunt it makes you look really uneducated
    Can you imagine Andrew Luck complaining about guys taking "cheap shots" at him? Neither can I. That hit Luck received I would consider a cheap shot and was correctly called as a penalty. Luck actually said it was his own fault and apologized to his teammates for getting sacked. He didn't cry or point the finger at his offensive line. This, my friend, is leadership.

    C dash, I predicted the Colts to get 10 wins
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    Default Re: Luck vs Griffin - let it begin.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pacergeek View Post
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    Can you imagine Andrew Luck complaining about guys taking "cheap shots" at him? Neither can I. That hit Luck received I would consider a cheap shot and was correctly called as a penalty. Luck actually said it was his own fault and apologized to his teammates for getting sacked. He didn't cry or point the finger at his offensive line. This, my friend, is leadership.

    C dash, I predicted the Colts to get 10 wins
    You are the only person who has said that was a cheap shot and deserved a penalty that I have heard. All of the commentators said it was a bad penalty and just a good hit to Luck's chest. However, a couple of more like that or if it had been a head shot and Luck would be done. It is only a matter of time taking that much punishment. Many rookie QBs have been there. Carr, Couch and many others..... ...

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    Default Re: Luck vs Griffin - let it begin.

    It was a little too much helmet. Still, it's football. You have to be more aware of the pass rush. I suspect he will get better at that. He's already shown improvement in a short period of time. I think the guy is destined for greatness.

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    Default Re: Luck vs Griffin - let it begin.

    Everything OlButt has predicted has turned out be complete and utter NONSENSE as we all knew it would.

    Luck has led his team to game winning scores in each of the last three games and has wins over the 4-1 Vikings and the Green Bay Packers. RGIII has beaten two 1-4 teams.

    Luck is #4 in the league in QBR.

    So much of the Colts starting 0-8 and taking five years to be competitive.

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    Default Re: Luck vs Griffin - let it begin.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pacergeek View Post
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    Can you imagine Andrew Luck complaining about guys taking "cheap shots" at him? Neither can I. That hit Luck received I would consider a cheap shot and was correctly called as a penalty. Luck actually said it was his own fault and apologized to his teammates for getting sacked. He didn't cry or point the finger at his offensive line. This, my friend, is leadership.

    C dash, I predicted the Colts to get 10 wins


    Your right. How dare a NFL player (esp a QB) take offense to players intentionally trying to injure him, and the incompetent replacement referees who had no control of the game

    RG3 went out and took blame for all his bad throws after week one, after everyone was ready to anoint him kind of the world. This, my friend, is leadership.

    I believe RG3 also wipes his on ***.

    He also apologized for getting knocked out of the game and for not making a smart football play.

    Of course I am wasting my time because if the roles were reserved you would be riding RG3's jock hard core and blasting Luck.

    P.S. You better hope to whoever you belive in that I never get a quote of Luck complaining about anything....lest I be forced to bump this thread. Of course I will also be able to write your reply on how he is showing leadership and anyone who doesn't believe you isnt a real fan because Luck is the GOAT, even if it is only 5 games in..... or some stupid ish like that

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    Default Re: Luck vs Griffin - let it begin.

    Quote Originally Posted by hoosierguy View Post
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    Everything OlButt has predicted has turned out be complete and utter NONSENSE as we all knew it would.

    Luck has led his team to game winning scores in each of the last three games and has wins over the 4-1 Vikings and the Green Bay Packers. RGIII has beaten two 1-4 teams.

    Luck is #4 in the league in QBR.

    So much of the Colts starting 0-8 and taking five years to be competitive.
    RG3 has played out of this world.

    Our GD defense has embarrassed themselves, especially our secondary.

    A actually applied for a position as a LB or in the secondary, but I got a note from TPTB asking me to "lets please move on"

  30. #324
    Member Ace E.Anderson's Avatar
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    Default Re: Luck vs Griffin - let it begin.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pacergeek View Post
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    Can you imagine Andrew Luck complaining about guys taking "cheap shots" at him? Neither can I. That hit Luck received I would consider a cheap shot and was correctly called as a penalty. Luck actually said it was his own fault and apologized to his teammates for getting sacked. He didn't cry or point the finger at his offensive line. This, my friend, is leadership.

    C dash, I predicted the Colts to get 10 wins
    That was def a clean hit, and a BS penalty.

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    Default Re: Luck vs Griffin - let it begin.

    Quote Originally Posted by xBulletproof View Post
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    Did you ask this when Peyton threw 55% in his first 4?

    Besides that defenses know Luck is going to throw more. He's thrown 177 passes in 4 games. RGIII has thrown 139 in 5 games. Teams don't gear up to stop the pass as much as they do with us. They can actually run the ball.

    Besides that I would love to see where the Colts stand in the NFL in drops.
    If you read my past posts, I said that I think tha Luck will be great--ONE DAY. I think he's performing as a number one pick should, but no he's not elite yet. Hasn't played long enough nor consistently enough.

    We do drop A LOT of passes, but there have been plenty of times where Luck has missed an open receiver. In fact there have been times when Luck threw behind Reggie only to have Reggie make a ridiculous catch. Again I'm not saying Luck isn't good--he's very good. But some posters act as if he's perfect and that Griffin is having a horrible or even an average season thus far, and that's not the case.
    Last edited by Ace E.Anderson; 10-11-2012 at 10:56 AM.

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