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Thread: Luck vs Griffin - let it begin.

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    Default Re: Luck vs Griffin - let it begin.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kid Minneapolis View Post
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    Luck is actually smaller physically, but not by much. Their athleticism and strength is nothing alike, though. Luck is a freak.


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    Luck is shorter, but would you say he is smaller physically? I think he has wider shoulders and a much more developed lower body.

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    Yea, he's 1 inch shorter and 10 lbs lighter lol... but like I said he's athletically superior.

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    There are two types of quarterbacks in the league: Those whom over time, the league figures out ... and those who figure out the league.

  3. #278

    Default Re: Luck vs Griffin - let it begin.

    Quote Originally Posted by cdash View Post
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    The real misnomer here that needs to be addressed is that scrambling QBs=higher upside.
    I think people fall in love with the idea of extending plays and adding another weapon to the offensive arsenal by a running QB. The problem is that in the majority of scrambling QB's its a crutch that is lean upon and gets them hurt or hinders their growth.

    This isn't just with the player but as you see in coaching staffs as well. The play book becomes more involved if you have designed runs and naked boot legs in there. The playbook is more involved but also more dumb down too if that makes sense. A naked boot leg is an easier read than just sitting in the pocket and the same goes for a play action passes as well. So if you have an offensive game plan that involves 60 some plays many of which can have slight adjustments to them based on the defensive coverage and a coaching staff that encourages you to run rather than throwing into row 8 then I think guys like that don't develop as quickly and run the risk of injury.
    Last edited by Gamble1; 10-09-2012 at 06:06 PM.

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    Default Re: Luck vs Griffin - let it begin.

    Quote Originally Posted by HickeyS2000 View Post
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    I wouldn't say they automatically have higher upside, but I also don't think we know yet. If you have two players with similar talent, one is truly a pocket passer, the other does both very very well, why can't the one that does both have higher upside? Absolutely so far the NFL always catches up to them (Vick, Newton). Like I said, it will take the right coaching and system to get them there, but how can you outright dismiss it? Griffin has the tools to be the first. I don't think it's just a gimmick like the wildcat, and I think coaches and teams understand that, which is why so many people invest so much trying to be the first to make it work. The NFL used to be a run first league, now it's a pass first league. I could see having someone that excels freakishly at both could be the next big thing, as so many are trying. And for the record, I would classify Griffin as a pocket QB that is forced to scramble. It's his size that makes everyone assume he is a scrambler first.
    Luck is more of a scrambler than RGIII. He is always running for his life.... ...

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    Default Re: Luck vs Griffin - let it begin.

    Quote Originally Posted by OlBlu View Post
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    Luck is more of a scrambler than RGIII. He is always running for his life.... ...

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  8. #281

    Default Re: Luck vs Griffin - let it begin.

    Quote Originally Posted by OlBlu View Post
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    Luck is more of a scrambler than RGIII. He is always running for his life.... ...
    Blah blah blah
    Don't ask Marvin Harrison what he did during the bye week. "Batman never told where the Bat Cave is," he explained.

  9. #282

    Default Re: Luck vs Griffin - let it begin.

    Quote Originally Posted by Suaveness View Post
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    Blah blah blah
    well he kind of does have a point

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    Default Re: Luck vs Griffin - let it begin.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kid Minneapolis View Post
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    Yea, he's 1 inch shorter and 10 lbs lighter lol... but like I said he's athletically superior.

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    Height and weight are not the only things that determine the physical size of your body. There are other important factors to consider. Like where most of you weight is. Luck has a much larger core than Peyton IMO.

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    Default Re: Luck vs Griffin - let it begin.

    I guess I really dont see how after a handful of games its THAT obvious that Luck is so much better than Griffin. You can only play the teams on your schedule, so I dont think that Griffin should be penalized for putting up good numbers against bad teams.

    This is definitely not an argument I'll win on this site however lol.

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    Default Re: Luck vs Griffin - let it begin.

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueCollarColts View Post
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    well he kind of does have a point
    No, he really doesn't. Griffin has been sacked more than Luck so far, and was the first of the two to get injured.

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    Default Re: Luck vs Griffin - let it begin.

    I'm not basing it off a handful of games.
    There are two types of quarterbacks in the league: Those whom over time, the league figures out ... and those who figure out the league.

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    Default Re: Luck vs Griffin - let it begin.

    Quote Originally Posted by Trader Joe View Post
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    Height and weight are not the only things that determine the physical size of your body. There are other important factors to consider. Like where most of you weight is. Luck has a much larger core than Peyton IMO.
    I think you're agreeing with me. He's not taller, and he's not heavier, but he is stronger and more..... athletic. He's got a perfect football build.
    Last edited by Kid Minneapolis; 10-09-2012 at 11:15 PM.
    There are two types of quarterbacks in the league: Those whom over time, the league figures out ... and those who figure out the league.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cdash View Post
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    The real misnomer here that needs to be addressed is that scrambling QBs=higher upside.
    I agree. To me, it's not detrimental, but it does tend to foster a certain quarterbacking mindset, and not one that lends itself to deep playoff runs.

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    Default Re: Luck vs Griffin - let it begin.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kid Minneapolis View Post
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    I agree. To me, it's not detrimental, but it does tend to foster a certain quarterbacking mindset, and not one that lends itself to deep playoff runs.

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    From all of the numbers I can find, Manning is listed at 230 pounds and Luck is listed at 234. So Luck is actually 1" shorter, but 4 or 5 pounds heavier. They say that for every inch in height it's equal to 10 pounds, so for Luck to be an inch shorter and 5 pounds heavier is like being 15 pounds heavier than Manning as far as build goes. And I think that's right. Luck has bigger everything. Arms, chest, legs, core. He's a very solid dude.

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    Default Re: Luck vs Griffin - let it begin.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kid Minneapolis View Post
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    I'm not basing it off a handful of games.
    That's all there is to go off of at this point. College play no longer matters. Yes it gives us a basis of what a player COULD be, but there have been many superstar college players that didn't amount to much in the NFL.

  19. #291
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    Default Re: Luck vs Griffin - let it begin.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gamble1 View Post
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    Let me argue the point then.

    The Colts defense is better since they have faced better opponents and have given up less points per game than the Redskins. I especially think this is true since the Colts are -4 on the turn over differential and the Redskins are +7. Thats normally not a good indicator of how a defense is performing but despite that fact the Colts have allowed less points.

    Do they still suck at stopping the run? Sure but they are a 100 yards better per game at stopping the pass when compared to the Redskins which is what makes them better overall IMO.

    In any case I think Luck is performing at a higher more mature level than RG3 and this can be seen in third down conversions. Luck is tied at 10th with 42% and RG3 is last in the NFL 32nd at 23%. THey both have seen over 60 3rd downs and that too big of a differential to ignore IMO. Maybe Garcon being hurt is a reason but that shouldn't put someone dead last in the NFL.

    IF anything RG3 should have a better conversion rate since his running game should give him less 3rd and longs which are typically harder to convert.

    So what do we have with RG3 and Luck? Well I would argue despite olblu's post is that we have exactly what we thought we had in both of them. One being a more mature player and the other being a more dynamic athlete who still has a lot to learn.

    FWIW I think Luck needs to learn alot but I think he has proven that he understands the game much better than RG3 at this point.
    I don't really think the Colts have played teams with better offenses than than the Redskins have.
    Why so SERIOUS

  20. #292

    Default Re: Luck vs Griffin - let it begin.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ace E.Anderson View Post
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    That's all there is to go off of at this point. College play no longer matters. Yes it gives us a basis of what a player COULD be, but there have been many superstar college players that didn't amount to much in the NFL.
    This goes back to my #245 post.

    Luck is the more mature NFL player and he has shown that with 3rd down conversions and expanded playbook trust by the coaches and the ability to run a 2 minute offense at a high level in multiple games.

    RG3 is still not sure when to run and when to throw it away. He has a less expanded playbook and has put up his best performances against bad pass defenses. Yes you have to play the schedule but the games that he has lost it was to a moderate pass defenses by NFL standards. I wouldn't count to much against him if he played a top 5 defense since most rookie QB's are going to look bad against those teams.

    RG3 has played well it just that Luck with his performance against the Packers put himself above him at the moment. As far as the college play doesn't matter anymore comment well thats how KM and I came up with RG3 limitations that are being exposed in the NFL. IT validates are concerns of RG3 and proves that Luck is performing at a more mature level despite having a much worse running game to lean upon.

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    Default Re: Luck vs Griffin - let it begin.

    Quote Originally Posted by Really? View Post
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    I don't really think the Colts have played teams with better offenses than than the Redskins have.
    Well, I thought Green Bay was better but I wonder now. Aaron Rogers seemed to think that game was over at the half.... Farve would not have done that.... ...

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    Default Re: Luck vs Griffin - let it begin.

    Quote Originally Posted by Indra View Post
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    From all of the numbers I can find, Manning is listed at 230 pounds and Luck is listed at 234. So Luck is actually 1" shorter, but 4 or 5 pounds heavier. They say that for every inch in height it's equal to 10 pounds, so for Luck to be an inch shorter and 5 pounds heavier is like being 15 pounds heavier than Manning as far as build goes. And I think that's right. Luck has bigger everything. Arms, chest, legs, core. He's a very solid dude.
    He may be a very solid dude but he can't keep taking the pounding that he is and survive unscathed. RGIII is very solid too but a concussion can happen to anyone and it will....... ...

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    Default Re: Luck vs Griffin - let it begin.

    Quote Originally Posted by Indra View Post
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    From all of the numbers I can find, Manning is listed at 230 pounds and Luck is listed at 234. So Luck is actually 1" shorter, but 4 or 5 pounds heavier. They say that for every inch in height it's equal to 10 pounds, so for Luck to be an inch shorter and 5 pounds heavier is like being 15 pounds heavier than Manning as far as build goes. And I think that's right. Luck has bigger everything. Arms, chest, legs, core. He's a very solid dude.
    Yep, this is what I was getting at. When you look at Luck in the pocket he has a larger presence than Peyton.

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    Default Re: Luck vs Griffin - let it begin.

    Quote Originally Posted by OlBlu View Post
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    Well, I thought Green Bay was better but I wonder now. Aaron Rogers seemed to think that game was over at the half.... Farve would not have done that.... ...
    Rodgers should have blocked Freeney, Redding and Mathis as well as pass the football.

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    Default Re: Luck vs Griffin - let it begin.

    Quote Originally Posted by OlBlu View Post
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    He may be a very solid dude but he can't keep taking the pounding that he is and survive unscathed. RGIII is very solid too but a concussion can happen to anyone and it will....... ...
    RGIII is actually built more like a WR than a QB.

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  26. #298

    Default Re: Luck vs Griffin - let it begin.

    Quote Originally Posted by Really? View Post
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    I don't really think the Colts have played teams with better offenses than than the Redskins have.
    Even if you don't think the opponents are better or just even then points allowed by both teams still favors the Colts. The turn over differential is a crtical stat IMO. IF you have lose that badly and still give up less points per game I think you have to say that the defense is better.

    Comparing the two.

    Packers (minus greg jennings still have more weapons) vs the Saints (with no coaching staff?)

    Vikings (good run game one stud wr) vs Rams (not much of a running game and some number 2 wrs)

    Jags (this is the only team that is worse offensively) vs. TB ( clear winner in thism mathcup)

    Bears ( good running game and good passing game) vs. Cincy (good passing game with a marginal running game)

    These comparisions are always flawed given that you have teams playing a different number of games and the schedule of the teams vary greatly. For example the Packers are ranked 15th in total points offensively but they also played the 3 top defenses in the league (49ers, Seahawks and the Bears).

    You just have to factor in those type of things when you do those comparisons but at worse you could consider the schedule equal in competition and Colts have still have given up less points overall.

    Edit: The rams are ranked 30th in passing and 22 in rushing. The jags are 32 in passing and 18th in rushing offensively speaking. Those could be consider a wash IMO but you still have Atlanta that the Redskins have played without RG3. The Falcons at this point have a marginal running game with a great passing game.
    Last edited by Gamble1; 10-10-2012 at 12:36 PM.

  27. #299

    Default Re: Luck vs Griffin - let it begin.

    Quote Originally Posted by OlBlu View Post
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    He may be a very solid dude but he can't keep taking the pounding that he is and survive unscathed. RGIII is very solid too but a concussion can happen to anyone and it will....... ...
    There are only 2 types of hits that worry me concerning a QB. One is the hit to the head on scramble or just a unblocked guy like Luck had against GB. The other is a hit from a defensive lineman where the right arm is trapped low and the QB is lifted up driven down on his right shoulder which separates (see Matthew Stafford).

    You also have your leg injuries but by in large I see the NFL protecting QB's much more in the pocket than on a extended play where the QB is trying to scramble and is considered a runner. This is how Aaron Rodgers was hurt in years past.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trader Joe View Post
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    RGIII is actually built more like a WR than a QB.
    And lucks built like a tight end.

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