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Thread: Luck vs Griffin - let it begin.

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    Default Luck vs Griffin - let it begin.

    I'm going to start out by going way out on a limb and say that neither of these guys will turn into the next Ryan Leaf. Fair enough ??

    #1 & #2. These guys will be linked thru their entire career. Comparisons will always be made. Stats, wins, Super Bowls ........ everything. And yes - it is certainly quite early in their NFL careers, but it's not too early to start.

    Luck - 26-41 (63%), 363 yards, 8.9 yds per attempt, 2 TDs, 2 INTs, 87.8 rating.

    Griffin - 9-14 (64%), 119 yards, 8.5 yds per attempt, 1 TD, 0 INT, 114.8 rating.

    Stretch Griffin's numbers out and all the numbers are really similar. In Luck's defense, one of those picks should really be a TD (a completion at the worst), but things are what they are and it goes down as an INT for Luck.

    I guess at this point my only question is why Griffin hasn't played that much and Cousins is getting as many reps as Luck is. I haven't read or heard anything about it, but if they're calling him the starter already, shouldn't / wouldn't he be getting a little more time ?? No, I'm pretty sure he doesn't have it all figured out and doesn't need the reps. Hell, Manning still needs reps at this point of the season. Anyone know what the deal is ??

    We can add more fuel to this after Saturday's game.

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    Default Re: Luck vs Griffin - let it begin.

    I was a bit shocked that RG3 got so little playing time in the first game, but it seemed he played the right amount last week.

    I think we see him play 2....maybe 3 quarters this weekend, and then we see Grossman et al play Wednesday. Wednesday will be a junk game where I doubt the starters play more then 1 series, if that.

    To be 100% honest I think part of why they are not playing RG3 much is because A. He seems to be grasping the system pretty well and is progressing at a rate they like. and B. perhaps more importantly, and especially against a good Bears defense, our line was crap. To be fully fair we got hit with some injuries, but the line was beat on every series. RG3 was forced to tuck the ball and run way more then I cared to see, granted that is why I was happy he "fell" to us. I think that bad O-line will be a problem he will have to face for a season, or two, though maybe Heyer and some of the higher draft picks prove me wrong.

    Cousins has played well, and I dont think you were implying it, but Cousins will not start over RG3.

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    Default Re: Luck vs Griffin - let it begin.

    Quote Originally Posted by PacerDude View Post
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    Luck vs. Griffin - let it begin.
    No, don't.
    "I had to take her down like Chris Brown."

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    Default Re: Luck vs Griffin - let it begin.

    I could see RG3 turning into Ryan Leaf. Instead of studying the game, he is out there making commercials. Doesn't seem dedicated to me
    David "And One" West

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    Default Re: Luck vs Griffin - let it begin.

    I don't think RG3 will be Leaf 2.0, but I still don't think he's on the same level as Luck, been saying that for months, while most of America bought into the RG3 hype. I see RG3 being.... Randall Cunningham 2.0, which is still not a bad thing.
    There are two types of quarterbacks in the league: Those whom over time, the league figures out ... and those who figure out the league.

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    Default Re: Luck vs Griffin - let it begin.

    Here's an article from the Washington Post.

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports...s=rss_homepage

    Reading that, it almost seems like the RG3 honeymoon is already starting to dwindle... pretty nuts when a writer in your own city writes this:

    Yet while Griffin is seemingly everywhere, endorsing everything, Luck has yet to star in his first commercial as a professional. He is considered the surest quarterback prospect in more than a decade, but his efficient throws, superb footwork and cerebral approach to the game often draw a ho-hum response — a marked contrast to the Griffin mania in Washington.
    Sound a lil' somewhat like envy?

    The entire article, written by a Washington writer, does nothing but glow about Luck.

    Here's another Washington Post article, documenting RG3's "struggles" thus far:

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports...l?tid=obinsite

    Not a very glowing review.

    Very curious the utilization of RG3 vs Kirk Cousins, can't quite figure that one out.
    Last edited by Kid Minneapolis; 08-23-2012 at 10:17 AM.
    There are two types of quarterbacks in the league: Those whom over time, the league figures out ... and those who figure out the league.

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    Default Re: Luck vs Griffin - let it begin.

    Redskins fans want so badly for RG3 to be better than Luck. They, like SD years ago, actually believe that they got the better guy. I'm really hoping this debate ends emphatically on Saturday
    David "And One" West

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    Default Re: Luck vs Griffin - let it begin.

    Took a few years for the Manning/Leaf thing to shake out, 'geek, and the gulf between those two was wider than the one off Mexico. Probly not happening in the 3rd preseason game.
    There are two types of quarterbacks in the league: Those whom over time, the league figures out ... and those who figure out the league.

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    Default Re: Luck vs Griffin - let it begin.

    Quote Originally Posted by vapacersfan View Post
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    I was a bit shocked that RG3 got so little playing time in the first game, but it seemed he played the right amount last week.

    I think we see him play 2....maybe 3 quarters this weekend, and then we see Grossman et al play Wednesday. Wednesday will be a junk game where I doubt the starters play more then 1 series, if that.

    To be 100% honest I think part of why they are not playing RG3 much is because A. He seems to be grasping the system pretty well and is progressing at a rate they like. and B. perhaps more importantly, and especially against a good Bears defense, our line was crap. To be fully fair we got hit with some injuries, but the line was beat on every series. RG3 was forced to tuck the ball and run way more then I cared to see, granted that is why I was happy he "fell" to us. I think that bad O-line will be a problem he will have to face for a season, or two, though maybe Heyer and some of the higher draft picks prove me wrong.

    Cousins has played well, and I dont think you were implying it, but Cousins will not start over RG3.

    I could be wrong, but after watching the first two preseason games, It didn't seem like Griffin was grasping the offense much at all. The Skins were running pretty basic plays, screens, deep ins, and curls. Also, I didn't see Griffin directing people at the line, etc. Now obviously he is a rookie so he shouldn't be expected to do so many things so early. And with that O-Line, they may not be able to run many exotic plays simply because Griffin wont have the time to scan down field.

    Cousins has looked very impressive to me. I was surprised he lasted as long as he did in the draft, and he seems pretty NFL ready so far. Yes he was working against 2nd and 3rd stringers, BUT he was still throwing the ball on time, to the right receivers, etc.

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    Default Re: Luck vs Griffin - let it begin.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pacergeek View Post
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    I could see RG3 turning into Ryan Leaf. Instead of studying the game, he is out there making commercials. Doesn't seem dedicated to me
    Is this a joke?

    Dude was working out all summer, was studying the Redskins playbook, and came to every voluntary workout....even the ones the coaches told him he really did not need to show up for.

    Lord forbid he have a life and make a commercial, or 3.

    P.S. I have seen a few Luck endorsements since he was drafted. Surely this is a red flag as he should be spending 200% of his time studying the game
    _________________________________

    As for him, I think he has a lot of work to do, but he is also better then anything we have had in a long, long, long, long, long time. The fact he is mobile is a huge bonus, especially considering our crappy o-line (that is what happens when you ignore the link for 4-5 years of drafts). Of course, all of this is ignoring Luck also ran a pro system in college for 4 years. Luck has more experience running a pro system, and IMP so far has shown that
    Last edited by vapacersfan; 08-23-2012 at 10:36 AM.

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    Default Re: Luck vs Griffin - let it begin.

    What commercials would those be, va? I've seen a single one, the Nike one from before the draft.

    And don't get mad at us -- your own Washington writer is the one who turned up the heat on this discussion.
    There are two types of quarterbacks in the league: Those whom over time, the league figures out ... and those who figure out the league.

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    Default Re: Luck vs Griffin - let it begin.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pacergeek View Post
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    Redskins fans want so badly for RG3 to be better than Luck. They, like SD years ago, actually believe that they got the better guy. I'm really hoping this debate ends emphatically on Saturday
    Two points.

    1. What Redskins fans do you talk to? Most fans I know (and since I live in DC I know quite a few....) respect Luck, hell must woulda loved to draft him. However, they want RG3 to pan out because guess what......we havent had a QB is over 2 decades. Lord forbid fans want a QB to pan out. I have yet to hear anyone say RG3 is better then Luck, though I imagine that debate is going on somewhere.

    2. If you think pre-season success (by either QB) is the end all be all......then I do not know what to tell you. I would rather have a rookie QB win a few regular season games and progress and possible even make the playoffs, then have him go balls to the walls in pre season and look amazing and dwindle during the season

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    Default Re: Luck vs Griffin - let it begin.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ace E.Anderson View Post
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    I could be wrong, but after watching the first two preseason games, It didn't seem like Griffin was grasping the offense much at all. The Skins were running pretty basic plays, screens, deep ins, and curls. Also, I didn't see Griffin directing people at the line, etc. Now obviously he is a rookie so he shouldn't be expected to do so many things so early. And with that O-Line, they may not be able to run many exotic plays simply because Griffin wont have the time to scan down field.

    Cousins has looked very impressive to me. I was surprised he lasted as long as he did in the draft, and he seems pretty NFL ready so far. Yes he was working against 2nd and 3rd stringers, BUT he was still throwing the ball on time, to the right receivers, etc.
    Cousins has impressed me. Very much so. But like you said he is working against 2nd and 3rd stringers.

    This new "vanilla" offense is part of Shannys plan to not show our hand. Most fans I know seem to hate it so far. Open it up and get the kid experience.

    Though to be fair, our line plain as day stinks. Not sure you can open the playbook when your line cant pass block to save their lives.

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    Default Re: Luck vs Griffin - let it begin.

    'Geek is probly just a tad annoyed because, frankly, Indy and it's fans have taken a lot of heat for drafting Luck, believe it or not. I'd say 60% of the nation believed we should've drafted RG3 before the pre-season started. Lotta idiots out there. But anyway, we've had to hear it a lot. Probly a bit of an overreaction on 'geeks part, but hey we're human.

    Go to any Luck article or YouTube video from before the pre-season started, and you'll see mostly "shoulda taken RG3" comments. It's stupid. Tunes are changing quickly since they've actually seen Luck in action in the pre-season however. Even the "experts" who predicted Luck would struggle mightily this year and predict RG3 would have a strong campaign are starting to reverse course in the past two weeks.
    Last edited by Kid Minneapolis; 08-23-2012 at 10:42 AM.
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    Default Re: Luck vs Griffin - let it begin.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kid Minneapolis View Post
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    'Geek is probly just a tad annoyed because, frankly, Indy and it's fans have taken a lot of heat for drafting Luck, believe it or not. I'd say 60% of the nation believed we should've drafted RG3 before the pre-season started. Lotta idiots out there. But anyway, we've had to hear it a lot. Probly a bit of an overreaction on 'geeks part, but hey we're human.
    Which is understandable, but IMO it was a close call but most people saw Luck was better.

    Even if everyone was calling to draft RG3 over Luck, no need to bash him because others called you idiots. People said we shouldnt have drafted Reggie.....yet we know how that turned out.

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    Default Re: Luck vs Griffin - let it begin.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kid Minneapolis View Post
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    What commercials would those be, va? I've seen a single one, the Nike one from before the draft.

    And don't get mad at us -- your own Washington writer is the one who turned up the heat on this discussion.
    I swear I saw him in a few. Maybe I saw print ads. Regardless I edited my post.

    Dude, you realize the WAPO is HUGE. I have not read the sports section lately (I can only handle so much ra ra its our year crap year after year) but it is not uncommon for the Post to bash every Redskins from time to time. Hell, Snyder has a decade long fued with the WAPO and especially its sports department

    Just like after Lucks first bad game writers will be calling him out. Not sure I put much stock in any one (or two article). And after looking at your links, especially not one from Jason Reid looking for ratings...

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    Default Re: Luck vs Griffin - let it begin.

    It all goes to show that a large majority of fans don't know what the hell to look for. I told folks months ago that Luck was the superior player, and that the difference was actually enormous, but 9 out of 10 fans I talked to right here in Indiana said the exact opposite. Just goes to show that majority opinion doesn't make it truth... means that most people make uneducated decisions based on emotion or highlight reels or whatever... instead of actual thorough observation and understanding of what to look for.

    Reggie was another classic example. That draft occurred before I was a fan of the Pacers, but I can just imagine how it would have gone on these forums --- half the board would've blown up and quit being Pacer fans, and there would be 16 20-page threads with 35 "thanks" started with "WTF is our management doing", "REGGIE MILLER??? WTF???!?!?!?"

    The wrong people are also usually the loudest, that's the scary part. In those types of threads, you'll usually see a smattering of even-keeled, well-thought-out people stating "I like it, good move", and not a single thanks.
    Last edited by Kid Minneapolis; 08-23-2012 at 10:57 AM.
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    Default Re: Luck vs Griffin - let it begin.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kid Minneapolis View Post
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    'Geek is probly just a tad annoyed because, frankly, Indy and it's fans have taken a lot of heat for drafting Luck, believe it or not. I'd say 60% of the nation believed we should've drafted RG3 before the pre-season started. Lotta idiots out there. But anyway, we've had to hear it a lot. Probly a bit of an overreaction on 'geeks part, but hey we're human.

    Go to any Luck article or YouTube video from before the pre-season started, and you'll see mostly "shoulda taken RG3" comments. It's stupid. Tunes are changing quickly since they've actually seen Luck in action in the pre-season however. Even the "experts" who predicted Luck would struggle mightily this year and predict RG3 would have a strong campaign are starting to reverse course in the past two weeks.
    More of a reason to ignore ESPN

    and dear lord you read the youtube comments? I dont handle even listening to half off the ignorant crap people say in those.

    I didnt realize it was even that close of a debate. I thought it was a clear Luck 1 RG3 2, but clearly I was wrong. Regarldess both can, and IMO will, turn out to be good QB's (barring injuries)

    Time will tell

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    Default Re: Luck vs Griffin - let it begin.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kid Minneapolis View Post
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    Reggie was another classic example. That draft occurred before I was a fan of the Pacers, but I can just imagine how it would have gone on these forums --- half the board would've blown up and quit being Pacer fans, and there would be 16 20-page threads started with "WTF is our management doing", "REGGIE MILLER??? WTF???!?!?!?"
    Before my time as well, but agreed.

    I think Shade would have sworn off the Pacers and Tim would have driven striaght into Burlington Coat Factory again

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    Default Re: Luck vs Griffin - let it begin.

    I only read the comments for a chuckle, there's a ton of stupidity... but it's a general way to get a feel for opinion in some cases.
    There are two types of quarterbacks in the league: Those whom over time, the league figures out ... and those who figure out the league.

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    Default Re: Luck vs Griffin - let it begin.

    I am annoyed with the RG3 hype. A year ago, nobody knew who he was except Big 12 football fans. After one great college season, the media has pushed him to ridiculous levels. Sorry, but I just don't like the guy. I hate his stupid socks, and his cocky smirk on his face. This hype machine even won RGIII the Heismann, which Luck clearly deserved to win. RGIII has Luck's Heismann just like Charles Woodson has Peyton's.
    David "And One" West

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    Default Re: Luck vs Griffin - let it begin.

    Did you see they're selling a t-shirt for this weeks Luck-RG3 match up?
    http://www.indystar.com/article/2012...ts-own-T-shirt

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    Default Re: Luck vs Griffin - let it begin.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kid Minneapolis View Post
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    'Geek is probly just a tad annoyed because, frankly, Indy and it's fans have taken a lot of heat for drafting Luck, believe it or not. I'd say 60% of the nation believed we should've drafted RG3 before the pre-season started. Lotta idiots out there. But anyway, we've had to hear it a lot. Probly a bit of an overreaction on 'geeks part, but hey we're human.

    Go to any Luck article or YouTube video from before the pre-season started, and you'll see mostly "shoulda taken RG3" comments. It's stupid. Tunes are changing quickly since they've actually seen Luck in action in the pre-season however. Even the "experts" who predicted Luck would struggle mightily this year and predict RG3 would have a strong campaign are starting to reverse course in the past two weeks.
    There were some draft experts (Merill Hoge, Skip Bayless) who thought that RG3 were better. They even had tape, facts, etc to prove their points to be at least debatable. With something like the draft, everyone is going to have their opinions. And the fact that a lot of people were mad that we chose Luck over RG3 really means nothing. You know as well as I know that Luck was the right choice. BUT there are a few things (arm strength, straight line mobility, "charisma") that makes RG3 seem more attractive to the casual fan.

    I would say that "60% of the nation" is a little bit of an overraction. If anything, it was probably closer to 40-45%. But that was AFTER hearing about Luck being the consensus #1 pick for two straight years. People got tired of hearing about him, and talking about him, so they moved on to something newer and more exciting. Doesn't matter though, we ended up with a very good young QB who will look to impress for the next 10-12 years.

    Don't let the ignorance of others get to ya Kid Minneapolis ;-)

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    Default Re: Luck vs Griffin - let it begin.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pacergeek View Post
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    Redskins fans want so badly for RG3 to be better than Luck. They, like SD years ago, actually believe that they got the better guy. I'm really hoping this debate ends emphatically on Saturday
    Will Luck and RG3 be playing corner against one another or something?

    Why do you so badly want RG3 to fail?

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    Default Re: Luck vs Griffin - let it begin.

    It wasn't even close to 40%. Pretty much everyone agreed that Luck should go number one. I'd say maybe 20% of people would say RG3 should have gone first. Luck was an overwhelming favorite to go to the Colts.

    And Pacergeek, just because people slept on RG3 doesn't mean he doesn't deserve the hype. I knew who RG3 was 4 years ago because he was damn good then. His freshman season he had a 5-1 TD to INT ratio. People just didn't pay attention to Baylor because its historically one of the worst football programs in the nation. And outside of ESPN, the media did give him attention. He was the pick to win the Heisman by SI Writer and Dan Patrick co host Andrew Perloff.

    You seem awful angry at him for having an outstanding senior year.

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