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Thread: So who was the worst coach in Pacer history?

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    Member WhoLovesYaBaby?'s Avatar
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    Default So who was the worst coach in Pacer history?

    We recently had a well meaning poster wanting to end the JOB hate. And some excellent points were made.

    But was he the worst coach in Pacer history?

    Here's a little linky-poo so you don't have to look it up: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...s_head_coaches

    If you go on only winning % then it is no contest, Irvine is by far the worst. Bird by far the best.

    And for those of us who remember the forgettable Irvine reign, we concur. Irvine had some good players in Kellogg, Stipo, Fleming, and others. Of course he had duds also, plenty of them. But he simply couldn't win much. Had a totally confusing rotation and insisted on playing guys that shot at the wrong basket and threw the ball out of bounds whenever they touched it or fouled for the fun of it. Not that he can control everything a player does, but he didn't seem to have an issue with poor play.

    JOB was a poor coach. He used a style of hard nosed coaching that no longer fits in todays NBA. He might do better in college or High School. I never really understood his handling of players (like TJ and Murphy).

    But JOB is a recent memory. Irvine is not, in fact he is not even a memory to most on this board.

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    Boom Baby! QuickRelease's Avatar
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    Default Re: So who was the worst coach in Pacer history?


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    Default Re: So who was the worst coach in Pacer history?

    Quote Originally Posted by QuickRelease View Post
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    didn't versace get in some kind of 'high school girl fight' [not a PC name, open to a better suggestion] with the IndyStar guys. I remember something about him using practice time to sit in a circle with the team and talk about not talking to the press.

    It sounded pretty silly, but so did the Star's coverage.

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    Default Re: So who was the worst coach in Pacer history?

    Its not really fair to say JOB was the worst coach. His teams had the worst talent on them and he really didn't have much to work with. Clearly Isiah was the worst. He had talented teams every season, yet did nothing in the playoffs. There was no excuse to lose to Boston in 2003. We had a prime JO, prime Ron Artest, an All Star Brad Miller, a young and productive Al Harrington, and a still effective Reggie Miller. The 02-03 Pacers team you could argue was the most talented team we ever assembled. All Boston had was Paul Pierce and Antwoine Walker. The next season under Carlisle, even with losing Brad Miller, we went to the ECF.
    David "And One" West

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    Default Re: So who was the worst coach in Pacer history?

    Quote Originally Posted by QuickRelease View Post
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    He certainly had the worst hair.

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    Default Re: So who was the worst coach in Pacer history?

    George Irvine was the worst, by a country mile.

    His roster was bad, but he was even worse. 52-130 over 2+ seasons.

    And think about his roster, both of his starting forwards and his backup C all played together at Ohio State, and managed to go a whopping 9-9 against the Big Ten. Talk about an unimpressive NBA front court. So George didn't have much to work with, but those teams were wretched.

    And even then, rumor has it that when George was "fired" to the front office, that he was the one pushing for the Rifleman-Williams for A piece of Pooh and Spare Change trade.

    Just awful.
    Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
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    pacer fan since 88-89 Mr_Smith's Avatar
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    Default Re: So who was the worst coach in Pacer history?

    Dick Versace didn't coach long enough to be the worst.
    BUILT, NOT BOUGHT

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    Administrator Unclebuck's Avatar
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    Default Re: So who was the worst coach in Pacer history?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr_Smith View Post
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    Dick Versace didn't coach long enough to be the worst.
    Only coach Walsh fired mid season. It was 1 week before Christmas

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    Default Re: So who was the worst coach in Pacer history?

    Quote Originally Posted by WhoLovesYaBaby? View Post
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    JOB was a poor coach. He used a style of hard nosed coaching that no longer fits in todays NBA. He might do better in college or High School.
    if NBA players won't listen to him, what makes you think teenagers would? he's a terrible coach in any setting, thus getting my vote for worst in pacers history.

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    Default Re: So who was the worst coach in Pacer history?

    Mel Daniels 0-2 gets my vote ;-)

    GRANGER!! FOR THE WIN.............. IT'S GOOD!!!!!

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    Default Re: So who was the worst coach in Pacer history?

    Probably Dick Versace...
    Everybody ride the Scola train! WHOO WHOO

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    Default Re: So who was the worst coach in Pacer history?

    Not that I think he would qualify but thought for sure we'd get at least an Isaiah Thomas mention by this point.

    I think "frustrating to remember" and bad coaching aren't quite the same. Thomas isn't the worst, but because of the high potential and the knowledge that we could have had Carlise several years early bugs me.

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    Default Re: So who was the worst coach in Pacer history?

    seeing as i was maybe 2 years old when versace was canned......

    still JOB.
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    Default Re: So who was the worst coach in Pacer history?

    I've heard some horror stories about how Bob Hill treated players and pitted one against another....but in my book, it's George Irvine with Versace a close second.
    If you get to thinkin’ you’re a person of some influence, try orderin’ somebody else’s dog around..

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    Default Re: So who was the worst coach in Pacer history?

    I didn't care for Versace...or maybe it was his hair that irritated me. Anyway, clearly a bad coach. He makes JOb look like John Wooden.

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    Default Re: So who was the worst coach in Pacer history?

    just cause im tired of some ppl trying to defend JOB and making countless numbers of threads on basically the same thing im going to say..........

    JIM O'BRIEN!!

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    Default Re: So who was the worst coach in Pacer history?

    I'm sure that I'm in the minority, but I didn't think Versace was a bad coach. He had a terrible team that wasn't going anywhere but at least he played his young players. Det and Michael Williams really played well for him.
    I'm old enough to remember the ABA but to young to know what I'm talking about in regards to players or coaches. For my money JOB has been the worse coach we've had in the NBA.

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    Default Re: So who was the worst coach in Pacer history?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pacerized View Post
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    I'm sure that I'm in the minority, but I didn't think Versace was a bad coach. He had a terrible team that wasn't going anywhere but at least he played his young players. Det and Michael Williams really played well for him.
    I'm old enough to remember the ABA but to young to know what I'm talking about in regards to players or coaches. For my money JOB has been the worse coach we've had in the NBA.
    Not to nitpick too much, but Versace was fired 25 games into the 1990-91 season, Micheal Willams' first season with the Pacers. Micheal appeared in 21 of those 25 games for a total of about 250 minutes for Versace. Vern got hurt in January of that season, after Bo Hill took over, and that's when Micheal moved into the starting lineup and blossomed. He did play his young players. The season before, Versace's full season on the job, Reggie was third in the league in minutes played, but really faded down the stretch as the Pacers limped into the playoffs and got slaughtered by the Pistons.
    Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
    Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
    Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
    Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
    And life itself, rushing over me
    Life itself, the wind in black elms,
    Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you


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    Default Re: So who was the worst coach in Pacer history?

    Quote Originally Posted by ChicagoJ View Post
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    Not to nitpick too much, but Versace was fired 25 games into the 1990-91 season, Micheal Willams' first season with the Pacers. Micheal appeared in 21 of those 25 games for a total of about 250 minutes for Versace. Vern got hurt in January of that season, after Bo Hill took over, and that's when Micheal moved into the starting lineup and blossomed. He did play his young players. The season before, Versace's full season on the job, Reggie was third in the league in minutes played, but really faded down the stretch as the Pacers limped into the playoffs and got slaughtered by the Pistons.
    I'm not bothering to look up minutes or stats, just going off memory. Due to the company I worked for I was able to attend most games for free back then. I remember watching Williams and Det playing some good games under Versace. Versace came in to where I worked several times and it was good to talk Pacers with him. There weren't a lot of fans at that point. He was a good guy and I don't think a bad coach. He just had a bad team that hadn't came together and got on the wrong side of the media.
    Like I said, I know I'm in the minority. I can't remember anyone from that era liking Versace.

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    Default Re: So who was the worst coach in Pacer history?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pacerized View Post
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    I'm not bothering to look up minutes or stats, just going off memory. Due to the company I worked for I was able to attend most games for free back then. I remember watching Williams and Det playing some good games under Versace. Versace came in to where I worked several times and it was good to talk Pacers with him. There weren't a lot of fans at that point. He was a good guy and I don't think a bad coach. He just had a bad team that hadn't came together and got on the wrong side of the media.
    Like I said, I know I'm in the minority. I can't remember anyone from that era liking Versace.
    See, that's what I don't get. When those two guys were together, they got off to a 3-1 start, then went 6-15 over the next 21. With a team that Versace had led to the playoffs the year before. They made no roster moves after firing Versace and Bo Hill got them back to 0.500 by going 32-25 (56%) the rest of the way. You sure you're talking about Versace?
    Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
    Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
    Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
    Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
    And life itself, rushing over me
    Life itself, the wind in black elms,
    Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you


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    Default Re: So who was the worst coach in Pacer history?

    The memories this thread brings back are making me nauseous. I think I need a drink.

    Zeke if I hafta choose.
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    Default Re: So who was the worst coach in Pacer history?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pacerized View Post
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    I'm not bothering to look up minutes or stats, just going off memory. Due to the company I worked for I was able to attend most games for free back then. I remember watching Williams and Det playing some good games under Versace. Versace came in to where I worked several times and it was good to talk Pacers with him. There weren't a lot of fans at that point. He was a good guy and I don't think a bad coach. He just had a bad team that hadn't came together and got on the wrong side of the media.
    Like I said, I know I'm in the minority. I can't remember anyone from that era liking Versace.
    I too met Versace and actually knew him well. My dad built his house, my mom decorated his house, they knew his young wife.

    I went to a closed training camp practice up at Purdue and after went to dinner with Versace, Bob Hill and Bob Ocepka. So it was just me, my dad, and the three coaches. It was an interesting experience. I was 19 years old at the time.

    General impressions of the three coaches - just as people. To be clear Versace invited me and my dad up to practice and then to dinner afterward. He knew I was a big Pacers fan so he was being very nice inviting us - so I wanted to like him.

    Ocepka - one of the nicest guys you will ever meet. He was seemingly interested in me and my dad.

    Bob Hill - while there might be legitimate reasons, he came across as a jerk. Like he didn't want to be there, didn't say much. But I'll give him some credit he didn't act like Versace. (didn't seem Hill and Versace got along well)

    Versace - He was a big personality and I used to love his call in radio show and later when he hosted a radio show in Chicago he was excellent.

    But my impression from that dinner is hard to describe. He seemed very fake to me, like he'd ask me a question a legitimate basketball question and then obviously not listen to anything I said. But he wasn't mean to me, he wasn't horrible at all, but I think what bothered me more than anything is he hated the team and players he was coaching. Some of his comments: Tank is as dumb as a box of rocks. Versace hated Mel Daniels, he went on a rant about him. I forget some of his other comments, but he was critical of almost all the players.

    More than anything Dick just talked and talked and while he was very articulate he just has that personality where he thinks he is the smartest person in the room. The more you are around him, the less you like him.

    We did get some great tickets though.
    Last edited by Unclebuck; 08-23-2012 at 09:27 AM.

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    Default Re: So who was the worst coach in Pacer history?

    Irvine
    Versace
    Thomas
    JOB
    Hill

    In that order.

    The two that I personally despised the most and respected the least...
    Thomas
    JOB

    In that order.

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  29. #24

    Default Re: So who was the worst coach in Pacer history?

    since everyone for some reason wants to defend Jim O'brien then Im gonna defend Dirk Versace. yea he helped the pacers stay in indiana:your argument is invalid

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    Step aside, King James BlueNGold's Avatar
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    Default Re: So who was the worst coach in Pacer history?

    I have a painful question to ask. If you had to sign a coach to a 4 year guaranteed contract...and only Jim O'Brien and Isaiah Thomas were the options....who would be coach? Both are bad, but I think I'd prefer Zeke. Jim was just too frustrating and at least the players like Zeke (or at least JO).

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