Page 3 of 3 FirstFirst 123
Results 51 to 59 of 59

Thread: DJ Augustin Playing Time

  1. #51
    Member CableKC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    San Jose, CA ( 1123, 6536, 5321 )
    Age
    41
    Posts
    24,789

    Sports Logo

    Default Re: DJ Augustin Playing Time

    Quote Originally Posted by BRushWithDeath View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    We just signed George Hill to a 5 year, $8 million per contract. D.J. Augustin is not playing 30 mintues a night.
    DJ is a Starting Quality PG and now the only true PG in the lineup. Given our likely 5 man Guard and SF rotation of GHill / PGeorge / DGranger / DJ Augustin / GGreen .....I don't see why he can't command anywhere between 21 to 28 mpg.....which is pretty much "1st Guard off the bench" to 6th Man rotational minutes. I can see Lance getting minutes...but I don't see him getting it at the expense of DJ.
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

  2. #52

    Default Re: DJ Augustin Playing Time

    Quote Originally Posted by D0NT SH0OT ME View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    What exactly are you saying here? Please clarify.
    Collison and Hibbert defending the pick and roll, it never bothered you?
    I thought the combination of a poor defending PG and a very slow footed big man was the main door to enter our house of defense and I think we will get the same if players like DJ or Nash would be our starting PG.



    Quote Originally Posted by D0NT SH0OT ME View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Or run Paul George off some screens and kick it to him. All four of our other starters are heavily involved in our offense, which is an extremely thing rare to find in the NBA. The reason it is so rare is because you can only have so many offensive options on the floor before they begin to disrupt each others play.

    We don't need another scorer to disrupt the play of our other four scorers. We need a facilitator that can compliment our four scorers on offense by getting them the ball in advantageous positions.
    If it were people like Jason Terry and Manu Ginobili would start every game for their respective teams. They do not, however, because unless one of those 5 scorers is also a talented facilitator a la Steve Nash, that unit will be unable to move the ball effectively, and the bench will suffer a drop in scoring from not having enough offensive options present.
    There are disadvantages to having 5 scorers on the court as only 1 guy can score the ball, but you can also use it as a strength. If all 5 players can score the ball, you can run a play for the player who is defended by the worst defender. Most teams always have a bad or below average defender on the court, but like you said, it is rare that a team has 5 good offensive players, so that the bad defender is usually covering the bad offensive player. Opponents will think twice if they want to double team one of our players. Because every Pacer on the court can be dangerous.




    Quote Originally Posted by D0NT SH0OT ME View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    D.J Augustin and Darren Collison are vastly different players. Like Hill, Darren was primarily a scorer. Augustin is primarily a distributor.

    Let me ask you a question. Why do you feel like Darren struggled? Going off of statistics, Darren had a very good season, so why do you believe he struggled
    He struggled to play defense, he struggled to find teammates. I am the last one to put much weight into stats, but the stats he produced in New Orleans as a starter didn't just come falling out of the sky. In a better suited offensive system, he can do better.
    If he had a very good season(good enough), we wouldn't have traded him.



    Quote Originally Posted by D0NT SH0OT ME View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Augustin cannot be as good of a sixth man as Hill is. The concept of a sixth man involves someone that is versatile in what positions they can play, and is able to effectively mesh with both the starting and second unit. Augustin fits neither of those parameters. He cannot play any other position than point guard, and he will not be an effective player with our bench unit
    The concept of a sixth man involves but just one thing: provide an offensive spark. Wether he scores or facilitates scoring, doesn't make much difference to me.
    It doesn't matter for us that Augustin is strictly a PG as Hill or George can (continue to) play the SG position.
    Quote Originally Posted by D0NT SH0OT ME View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    What so many people seem to not understand is that a basketball lineup is all about combining players that maximize each others abilities. While putting five scorers on the floor at one time might seem like a good idea, in reality all it does is minimize each player's skill set. They cannot all score the ball at the same time, so all of their shot attempts per minute are going to go down, which in turn minimizes their effectiveness. The same thing happens to our bench. With only one efficient scorer left on our bench our opponent's defense will focus on him, which will reduce his and our entire second unit's effectiveness.
    I agree partly. If you have a player like Durant or Westbrook, I would also keep Harden on the bench and use Sefolosha to provide the defense. When you have Melo playing for you, you can put a player like Dahntay Jones next to him. If you have Wade and Lebron, Chalmers is almost perfect. But the Pacers don't have that luxury. They are also combining players, in a different way. Maximize team offense in the starting lineup and use good distributors (Augustin and Stephenson) in combination with athletic, quick players (Green, Plumlee, Mahinmi) and a player who can shoot but needs time to do it (Hansbrough). We had only one bench player who could score last year, it seems to me our FO learned from it and added more offense to our bench this offseason. It is not like DJ can't score.
    Last edited by MvPlumlee; 08-23-2012 at 02:22 PM.

  3. The Following User Says Thank You to MvPlumlee For This Useful Post:

    J7F

  4. #53
    Member D0NT SH0OT ME's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Secret
    Posts
    455

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: DJ Augustin Playing Time

    Quote Originally Posted by MvPlumlee View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Collison and Hibbert defending the pick and roll, it never bothered you?
    I thought the combination of a poor defending PG and a very slow footed big man was the main door to enter our house of defense and I think we will get the same if players like DJ or Nash would be our starting PG.
    Darren Collison allowed an average 0.74 points per play when defending the ball handler in a pick and roll situation. This ranked 69th in the league. George Hill averaged the exact same thing. Roy Hibbert allowed an average of 0.82 points per play when defending the roll man in a pick and roll situation. This ranked 39th in the league.

    These numbers by no means indicate a fault in our defense.

    D.J Augustin allowed an average of 0.82 points per play when defending the ball handler in a pick and roll situation. This ranked 133rd in the league. While this is without a doubt a lower number, is it by no means a glaring weakness. I'm confident that this number would get lower playing with our team compared to the Bobcats.

    Quote Originally Posted by MvPlumlee View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    There are disadvantages to having 5 scorers on the court as only 1 guy can score the ball, but you can also use it as a strength. If all 5 players can score the ball, you can run a play for the player who is defended by the worst defender. Most teams always have a bad or below average defender on the court, but like you said, it is rare that a team has 5 good offensive players, so that the bad defender is usually covering the bad offensive player. Opponents will think twice if they want to double team one of our players. Because every Pacer on the court can be dangerous.

    You are not getting my point. Yes, having five efficient offensive players on the floor at the same time will stretch a defense, but this slight benefit is not worth the huge negative impact it has on a bench's scoring ability nor the decrease in production from each individual scorer.

    More scorers in the starting lineup = less shots for each player = decrease in production from each player.

    Fewer scorers on the bench = less efficient scoring from the bench = decrease in overall production from the bench.

    Quote Originally Posted by MvPlumlee View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    He struggled to play defense, he struggled to find teammates.
    If I am following this right, you are essentially saying you think Augustine will not be able to find teammates in our offense because Collison was unable to? That's like comparing apples to oranges. Darren Collison struggled to find teammates because he is a poor facilitator. D.J Augustin is a good facilitator, and therefore your comparison is moot.

    Quote Originally Posted by MvPlumlee View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    The concept of a sixth man involves but just one thing: provide an offensive spark. Wether he scores or facilitates scoring, doesn't make much difference to me.
    It doesn't matter for us that Augustin is strictly a PG as Hill or George can (continue to) play the SG position.
    Entirely not true. The concept of a sixth man having to be able to provide an offensive spark is not even close to being mutually exclusive.

  5. #54

    Default Re: DJ Augustin Playing Time

    Quote Originally Posted by D0NT SH0OT ME View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    You are not getting my point. Yes, having five efficient offensive players on the floor at the same time will stretch a defense, but this slight benefit is not worth the huge negative impact it has on a bench's scoring ability nor the decrease in production from each individual scorer.

    More scorers in the starting lineup = less shots for each player = decrease in production from each player.

    Fewer scorers on the bench = less efficient scoring from the bench = decrease in overall production from the bench.
    There is only one way to find out, no?

    For me, the positive things about Hill starting and Augustin sixth man seem to outweigh the negative ones, that's all.

  6. #55
    Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Indy
    Posts
    8,134

    Default Re: DJ Augustin Playing Time

    Quote Originally Posted by D0NT SH0OT ME View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    It makes no sense to start Hill and bring D.J off the bench. George Hill is primarily a scorer. D.J Augustine is primarily a facilitator. The only thing that starting Hill and benching Augustine accomplishes is to diminish both players skill sets. Hill's scoring will be overshadowed by our other more efficient options, while D.J's passing will be wasted on inefficient offensive players. Our starting unit needs a point guard that can get them the ball in advantageous positions, not another scorer to take shots away from them, while our bench needs an efficient scorer that can take over the game for a stretch, and not a facilitator to pass to low efficiency offensive players.

    This really shouldn't even be up for debate. Everything about George Hill screams sixth man. He has the offensive skills to play both guard positions, is a good scorer, and has the length and quickness to adequately defend just about any guard in the league. We might as well just start calling him Jason Terry.
    I've been saying this ever since I have been here, it is exactly the reason I always supported starting McBob over Tyler, and why I wanted to see how Price would perform with the starters. Your best 5 man group isn't always your best 5 players. You best 5 man group is the 5 players who play the best together. Sometimes, in fact often, that is the best 5 players (or at least the best player at each position), but a decent amount of time you are better off playing your second best player at the position because his skill set compliments the other players on the court.

    I firmly believe the ideal realistic situation your 6th man is your 4th best player.

  7. The Following User Says Thank You to Eleazar For This Useful Post:


  8. #56
    Gotta Play Big BlueNGold's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Indianapolis
    Posts
    15,396

    Default Re: DJ Augustin Playing Time

    I think DJ should be given the opportunity to show his game works better with the starting unit...and earn the spot. But from what I've heard, he's not the facilitator some seem to the think.

    BTW, I visited the Dallas Mavericks forum just a few days ago. They were saying Darren Collison is a pure PG who should be able to facilitate their offense better than the alternatives.

    So, what I'm saying is that assuming you have even a cheap version of Jason Kidd, doesn't mean you have that. It's easy to assume the new guy has those skills, but you would be surprised at how difficult those players really are to find.

  9. The Following User Says Thank You to BlueNGold For This Useful Post:


  10. #57
    Member Ace E.Anderson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Indiana
    Posts
    5,428

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: DJ Augustin Playing Time

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    I think DJ should be given the opportunity to show his game works better with the starting unit...and earn the spot. But from what I've heard, he's not the facilitator some seem to the think.

    BTW, I visited the Dallas Mavericks forum just a few days ago. They were saying Darren Collison is a pure PG who should be able to facilitate their offense better than the alternatives.

    So, what I'm saying is that assuming you have even a cheap version of Jason Kidd, doesn't mean you have that. It's easy to assume the new guy has those skills, but you would be surprised at how difficult those players really are to find.
    The difference is that Augustin has the numbers (6+ assists pr/gm) to back up the claim. Now obviously stats don't always show true value and skill, but the fact that DJ could average that many assists on THAT team definitely screams pure PG. Also, though DJ is a player that looks to take some shots, he has the vision that someone like DC lacked. Most scouting reports I've read on Augustin described him as a pass first type of guy.

    NOBODY should expect the second coming of J Kidd lol, but a guy that can pass to the open man both in half court sets and on the break is something we have lacked.

  11. #58
    Gotta Play Big BlueNGold's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Indianapolis
    Posts
    15,396

    Default Re: DJ Augustin Playing Time

    Quote Originally Posted by Ace E.Anderson View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    The difference is that Augustin has the numbers (6+ assists pr/gm) to back up the claim. Now obviously stats don't always show true value and skill, but the fact that DJ could average that many assists on THAT team definitely screams pure PG. Also, though DJ is a player that looks to take some shots, he has the vision that someone like DC lacked. Most scouting reports I've read on Augustin described him as a pass first type of guy.

    NOBODY should expect the second coming of J Kidd lol, but a guy that can pass to the open man both in half court sets and on the break is something we have lacked.
    I must say that I do expect more natural PG skills than either DC or Hill. There is nothing natural about their PG skills. What position did Hill play at IUPUI. Wasn't it shooting guard?

    I do think with DJ he's a more natural PG....but that's not what I've read from people closer to his game. I hope what I read was wrong...

  12. #59
    THE WITCH IS DEAD!!! Coopdog23's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Da Bank
    Posts
    3,018

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: DJ Augustin Playing Time

    He and Stevenson will have equal playing time
    Smothered Chicken!

Similar Threads

  1. Brandon Rush Playing Time
    By Rogco in forum Indiana Pacers
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 04-22-2011, 02:51 PM
  2. Judicious playing time for Warriors' Jasikevicius
    By RoboHicks in forum NBA Headlines (RSS Feeds)
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 02-07-2007, 10:00 AM
  3. NBDL (playing time) vs. NBA (bench)
    By imawhat in forum Indiana Pacers
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 10-19-2006, 12:59 PM
  4. Quis playing time??
    By Strany in forum Indiana Pacers
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 10-13-2006, 12:33 AM
  5. Replies: 48
    Last Post: 03-30-2005, 03:24 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •