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Thread: Why the Pacers will NOT compete for a championship in the next 5 years

  1. #101
    Step aside, King James BlueNGold's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why the Pacers will NOT compete for a championship in the next 5 years

    Quote Originally Posted by OlBlu View Post
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    Well, lets see. Paul Pierce better than any player the Pacers have, KG better than any player the Pacers have, Jason Terry better than any player the Pacers have and Rondo, WAY better than any player the Pacers have. They are also deeper with the draft, players returning from injury and other aquisitions. If it was a playoff series, I pick the Celtics in four games.....

    If any one here sets homerism aside, they will easily see the same thing. You are not going to get enough improvement in PG, Hibbert and Lance to make up for that.
    Hmmm. Maybe we should trade Hibbert or Granger for Jason Terry. Of course, the Celtics wouldn't do that, right? That's too funny.

    This isn't 1998 OlBlu. That green on those Celtic jersey is mold. You are about to witness a changing of the guard and if it doesn't happen this year, it will next. The fact the Pacers may not contend for a championship anytime soon doesn't mean the Celtics are either. The Sixers about shot them down. The Heat let up on the gas when it became apparent in the first quarter of that series that the Celtics were finished. The rest was WWF and at no time should anyone have thought Boston could beat Miami. Miami knew after the Pacers series and after the first 10 minutes against Boston that they were headed to the finals and you could see it on LeBron's face.

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    Default Re: Why the Pacers will NOT compete for a championship in the next 5 years

    Quote Originally Posted by QuickRelease View Post
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    That's funny! I keep captioning it in my head..."NO, Pacers!....NO, Boston!....NO, Pacers!...NO, Boston!..."

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    Default Re: Why the Pacers will NOT compete for a championship in the next 5 years

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
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    Hmmm. Maybe we should trade Hibbert or Granger for Jason Terry. Of course, the Celtics wouldn't do that, right? That's too funny.

    This isn't 1998 OlBlu. That green on those Celtic jersey is mold. You are about to witness a changing of the guard and if it doesn't happen this year, it will next. The fact the Pacers may not contend for a championship anytime soon doesn't mean the Celtics are either. The Sixers about shot them down. The Heat let up on the gas when it became apparent in the first quarter of that series that the Celtics were finished. The rest was WWF and at no time should anyone have thought Boston could beat Miami. Miami knew after the Pacers series and after the first 10 minutes against Boston that they were headed to the finals and you could see it on LeBron's face.
    No, I don't think Boston makes that deal, those two players, especially granger are way overpaid and they already have better players at those positions. They would not trade him for Hill either for the same reason. Now, they might consider PG but probably not. Terry is a star the Pacers players are not....

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    Default Re: Why the Pacers will NOT compete for a championship in the next 5 years

    Quote Originally Posted by Eleazar View Post
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    Good thing we have three stars, and someone most people believe is a future star, possibly even a superstar.
    Are you talking about the Pacers or the Lakers

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    Default Re: Why the Pacers will NOT compete for a championship in the next 5 years

    In my opinion,Bostons entire future depends on how Jeff Green comes back from his heart condition.
    You can't get champagne from a garden hose.

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    Default Re: Why the Pacers will NOT compete for a championship in the next 5 years

    Quote Originally Posted by graphic-er View Post
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    In my opinion,Bostons entire future depends on how Jeff Green comes back from his heart condition.
    I don't think it makes any difference but if does come back strong, they be even better......

  8. #107
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    Default Re: Why the Pacers will NOT compete for a championship in the next 5 years

    Quote Originally Posted by OlBlu View Post
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    Silliness. Stars win championships not good teams with midlevel players. As soon as you realize that you will see how hopeless the Pacer situation really is. The Pacers lost ground to several teams this off season. They will have to fight to be as high as a sixth seed from what I see. They have NO chance against Miami or Boston. None. You can believe anything you want but that is just homerism.....
    Smash you will see that mostly I agree with where you are coming from. Like you I also believe that this off season has been anything but a success.

    However calling people who think they have a chance against the Heat or Boston homers is not only wrong it is insulting.

    First and foremost you vastly over rate the Celtics. Are they better than us? Probably but to say they would take us in a sweep is implying that they are better than the Bulls were two seasons ago and better than the Heat were this year. Neither of those teams could sweep us. Now did we have a chance against either team? Not really but they couldn't sweep us.

    The Celtics, even as well coached as they are, are not that much better than us. Yes Rondo's better, yes Pierce is still better for the most part & yes K.G. can be better but none of them are LeBron James better than us.

    The Heat are just on another level & believe me I take no pleasure in saying that if I learned any one thing from these playoffs it is that a team of good players can not beat superstar players. They could have beaten a team with stars but LeBron & Wade are just not in the same level of player.

    If you pay close attention you will see that I'm not really any different from you & Vnzla81 in the thinking for the off season it's just that I don't insult everyone else here with my differing opinion.

    It was a great year by the team and hey who's to say something couldn't happen to make things go the Pacers way so that is why I'm not on here night in and night out giving everyone the stink eye for being optimistic when I feel like (for lack of a better analogy) we are shuffling the deck chairs on the Titanic. That's really not a good analogy at all because this is not a sinking ship but you get my point, we did IMO useless movements to the backups when IMO this would have been the time to use that cap space, make a bold move and try & get a top tier player or even two upper tier players.

    Someone is going to say who & I'm going to reply that I don't know for sure but I do know that trades can be made when you have assets & space (at least that's what you all kept telling me when I used to ask why cap space was so important) and the Pacers had both.

    I say all of that to say this, stop telling anyone who disagrees with you that they are a homer. You don't like it whenever anyone calls you a troll and yes we have told a few of them to stop but if you are going to fire off the homer insult then I feel a lot less compelled to say anything to someone who chooses to call you a troll or other names.


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    Default Re: Why the Pacers will NOT compete for a championship in the next 5 years

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
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    It's not that bad. Boston is done. Jason Terry isn't going to help change the fact that Pierce and Garnett have already aged well past their primes. Every day that passes is a day they weaken and the Pacers get stronger.
    Haven't people been beating the "Boston is done" drum since like 2009? Yet they keep winning and going on deep playoff runs. They had the opportunity to play a game 6 at home that would have put them in the NBA Finals had they won. Unfortunately for them, one of the greatest players of all time played what was probably the greatest game of his career. Then in game 7 on the road, they led for a good chunk of the game before finally wearing out in the fourth.

    Post-All Star break Boston was a better team than the Pacers last year because they had three players who were better than any single player on the Pacers with Rondo, KG, and Pierce. I don't see how you can be better than a team that has three players that are better than anyone on your roster. Pierce often looked sluggish against Miami, but that was mostly because chasing Lebron around wore him out. There is no player on the Pacers who would come close to exhausting him like that, which means that he would light us up on the offensive end.

    It all comes down to KG and Pierce. If age causes them to take a significant step backward, then the Pacers are probably a better team. But if those two can come close to equaling their production of last year then they are an even better team than the one that was a hair away from the Finals. Jason Terry is better than Ray Allen at this point and is two years younger. Bradley was a huge contributor down the stretch for them last season and stole Ray's spot, but he missed the Miami series. If Jeff Green can give them something then that will be a very nice addition. Plus they drafted well.

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  12. #109

    Default Re: Why the Pacers will NOT compete for a championship in the next 5 years

    Are the Pacers going to be favored like Miami and the Lakers are this year to win a title anytime in the next five years?

    Without Paul George having a miraculous breakout along with an unlikely blossom of Hibbert, no.

    Could the Pacers take advantage of a down year where injuries and luxury tax takeout some of the teams led by superstars?

    Yes.

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  14. #110
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    Default Re: Why the Pacers will NOT compete for a championship in the next 5 years

    IMO we will never ever see a ring it's just way to hard to win one if you are small market one bad move and it could set you back years. I think i will just enjoy winning for winning seems to be the way to go for me

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    Default Re: Why the Pacers will NOT compete for a championship in the next 5 years

    Quote Originally Posted by Hypnotiq View Post
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    IMO we will never ever see a ring it's just way to hard to win one if you are small market one bad move and it could set you back years. I think i will just enjoy winning for winning seems to be the way to go for me
    That is they way I look at it too and if they got to the Eastern Finals or the Championship game, I would be very excited indeed. We might get the chance to play the "spoiler" role against a good team once in a great while.......

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    Default Re: Why the Pacers will NOT compete for a championship in the next 5 years

    Anytime somebody uses the "small market bs" as an excuse somebody in the Pacers front office smiles, they have done a good job in making people believe that.

    The more People believe that bs the less pressure the Pacers FO has to deliver a championship.

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    Default Re: Why the Pacers will NOT compete for a championship in the next 5 years

    The small market excuse is definitely BS, I agree with you there Vnzla, that is not a reason for why you cannot win a title.

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    Default Re: Why the Pacers will NOT compete for a championship in the next 5 years

    Quote Originally Posted by Sollozzo View Post
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    Haven't people been beating the "Boston is done" drum since like 2009? Yet they keep winning and going on deep playoff runs. They had the opportunity to play a game 6 at home that would have put them in the NBA Finals had they won. Unfortunately for them, one of the greatest players of all time played what was probably the greatest game of his career. Then in game 7 on the road, they led for a good chunk of the game before finally wearing out in the fourth.

    Post-All Star break Boston was a better team than the Pacers last year because they had three players who were better than any single player on the Pacers with Rondo, KG, and Pierce. I don't see how you can be better than a team that has three players that are better than anyone on your roster. Pierce often looked sluggish against Miami, but that was mostly because chasing Lebron around wore him out. There is no player on the Pacers who would come close to exhausting him like that, which means that he would light us up on the offensive end.

    It all comes down to KG and Pierce. If age causes them to take a significant step backward, then the Pacers are probably a better team. But if those two can come close to equaling their production of last year then they are an even better team than the one that was a hair away from the Finals. Jason Terry is better than Ray Allen at this point and is two years younger. Bradley was a huge contributor down the stretch for them last season and stole Ray's spot, but he missed the Miami series. If Jeff Green can give them something then that will be a very nice addition. Plus they drafted well.
    I'm on that bandwagon, but now I just feel like Peter Vecsey. If I keep saying it, eventually I'll be right.

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  22. #115
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    Default Re: Why the Pacers will NOT compete for a championship in the next 5 years

    Quote Originally Posted by Peck View Post
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    Smash you will see that mostly I agree with where you are coming from. Like you I also believe that this off season has been anything but a success.

    However calling people who think they have a chance against the Heat or Boston homers is not only wrong it is insulting.

    First and foremost you vastly over rate the Celtics. Are they better than us? Probably but to say they would take us in a sweep is implying that they are better than the Bulls were two seasons ago and better than the Heat were this year. Neither of those teams could sweep us. Now did we have a chance against either team? Not really but they couldn't sweep us.

    The Celtics, even as well coached as they are, are not that much better than us. Yes Rondo's better, yes Pierce is still better for the most part & yes K.G. can be better but none of them are LeBron James better than us.

    The Heat are just on another level & believe me I take no pleasure in saying that if I learned any one thing from these playoffs it is that a team of good players can not beat superstar players. They could have beaten a team with stars but LeBron & Wade are just not in the same level of player.

    If you pay close attention you will see that I'm not really any different from you & Vnzla81 in the thinking for the off season it's just that I don't insult everyone else here with my differing opinion.

    It was a great year by the team and hey who's to say something couldn't happen to make things go the Pacers way so that is why I'm not on here night in and night out giving everyone the stink eye for being optimistic when I feel like (for lack of a better analogy) we are shuffling the deck chairs on the Titanic. That's really not a good analogy at all because this is not a sinking ship but you get my point, we did IMO useless movements to the backups when IMO this would have been the time to use that cap space, make a bold move and try & get a top tier player or even two upper tier players.

    Someone is going to say who & I'm going to reply that I don't know for sure but I do know that trades can be made when you have assets & space (at least that's what you all kept telling me when I used to ask why cap space was so important) and the Pacers had both.

    I say all of that to say this, stop telling anyone who disagrees with you that they are a homer. You don't like it whenever anyone calls you a troll and yes we have told a few of them to stop but if you are going to fire off the homer insult then I feel a lot less compelled to say anything to someone who chooses to call you a troll or other names.
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    Default Re: Why the Pacers will NOT compete for a championship in the next 5 years

    Quote Originally Posted by Trader Joe View Post
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    The small market excuse is definitely BS, I agree with you there Vnzla, that is not a reason for why you cannot win a title.
    This was all you heard on the Colts boards about 10 years ago also.... small market blah blah blah, and then the Colts went on a decade-long domination of the entire league and a Super Bowl and yea.
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    Default Re: Why the Pacers will NOT compete for a championship in the next 5 years

    I mean even without the Colts the San Antonio Spurs have pretty much murdered that excuse for the past 15 years.

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    Default Re: Why the Pacers will NOT compete for a championship in the next 5 years

    When people bring up the small market, it's not that it's impossible, but rather that it's a lot harder to do. Which is completely 100% true.

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    Default Re: Why the Pacers will NOT compete for a championship in the next 5 years

    Quote Originally Posted by Trader Joe View Post
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    I mean even without the Colts the San Antonio Spurs have pretty much murdered that excuse for the past 15 years.
    Can you name 3 other small market teams from the last 15 years that have won a championship though? No it's not IMPOSSIBLE, but it's definitely unlikely if not improbable. You can't argue with the history of the NBA over the past 15-20 years or so and the fact that the championship has mostly gone to teams within a larger market. Obviously there are a variety of factors that go into these numbers, but I don't think its a total coincidence that most times the teams from the larger markets win championships.

  28. #120
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    Default Re: Why the Pacers will NOT compete for a championship in the next 5 years

    In NBA 2k I traded Darren Collison and future picks for Al Horford. Even then I managed to just win a championship, it was only because of my godgiven talented gameplay. Al Horford is not the solution. Sometimes the best move, is to make no move at all.
    yay, we're going back to the play-offs!

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    Default Re: Why the Pacers will NOT compete for a championship in the next 5 years

    Troll.
    Last edited by 1984; 08-17-2012 at 02:46 PM.

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    Default Re: Why the Pacers will NOT compete for a championship in the next 5 years

    Far be it from me to tell others how to be a fan, but I would never devote so much time to something that I only focused on the negatives. Sports are great, but unless you enjoy taking the wind out of others' sails and being "right" with the abject failure of your favorite team I'd recommend additional hobbies.

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    Default Re: Why the Pacers will NOT compete for a championship in the next 5 years

    Quote Originally Posted by Ace E.Anderson View Post
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    Can you name 3 other small market teams from the last 15 years that have won a championship though? No it's not IMPOSSIBLE, but it's definitely unlikely if not improbable. You can't argue with the history of the NBA over the past 15-20 years or so and the fact that the championship has mostly gone to teams within a larger market. Obviously there are a variety of factors that go into these numbers, but I don't think its a total coincidence that most times the teams from the larger markets win championships.
    The Colts, Green Bay, Tampa Bay Bucaneers, the Florida Marlins, yes the NBA has been rewarding big markets lately, but by the same token it's a bit of a chicken or an egg scenario can't you also just say the big market teams have been well run?

    Let's look at some of the small market NBA teams that have been successful, the Pacers of the 90's, the Nets of the early 2000s, the Utah Jazz of the 80s and 90s, the Oklahoma City Thunder currently, the Spurs for the last 15 years. Yes, the Spurs are the only team that won a title but all of those squads made the finals. Making the finals is a pretty good start to winning a title.

    At what point do we accept that the Lakers are in a good market, but maybe, just maybe they have also been very well run? If being in a big market was all it took how do you explain New York, the Bulls from 1998 to 2008, the Clippers forever, the Warriors (they have Oakland AND San Francisco to draw from), Toronto (a HUGE market), being in a big market might mean something but it definitely doesn't mean everything. Management matters and whether anyone here wants to admit it or not, the Lakers, the Celtics, the Heat, all these teams have been very well run to get where they have been recently. Look at the Celtics specifically KG didn't even WANT to go there until Ainge made the move to bring Ray Allen in, it's not like KG was like ZOMG ZOMG THE CELTICS WANT ME AND I'M STUCK IN MINNY I MUST GO NOW. No, until they got Ray, KG was like, Boston is a cool city, but you know what I'm all good in Minnesota unless they get better.
    Last edited by Trader Joe; 08-17-2012 at 03:00 PM.

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  33. #124
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    Default Re: Why the Pacers will NOT compete for a championship in the next 5 years

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    When people bring up the small market, it's not that it's impossible, but rather that it's a lot harder to do. Which is completely 100% true.
    I kind of agree with this but at the same time I see San Antonio winning multiple Championships, I see teams like Cleveland and Orlando making it to the finals at least one time(like the Pacers in 30 years?), Utah in their time at least made it to the finals twice, Seattle made it one time.

    I guess what I'm trying to say is that many posters in PD and fans in general love to give the Pacers front office the longest leash available, anytime something doesn't happen it's because "we are an small market team", or "we couldn't get X player because we are an small market team", that's when I feel that the excuse is overuse, people try to make themself feel better by repeating the same BS over and over again.

    To me having a competent front office and good ownership triumphs over some fake "small market team complex", to me players are not signing with Indy for other reasons than just been "an small market team" and nope I'm not talking about the weather either.

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    Default Re: Why the Pacers will NOT compete for a championship in the next 5 years

    Quote Originally Posted by Trader Joe View Post
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    The Colts, Green Bay, Tampa Bay Bucaneers, the Florida Marlins, yes the NBA has been rewarding big markets lately, but by the same token it's a bit of a chicken or an egg scenario can't you also just say the big market teams have been well run?

    Let's look at some of the small market NBA teams that have been successful, the Pacers of the 90's, the Nets of the early 2000s, the Utah Jazz of the 80s and 90s, the Oklahoma City Thunder currently, the Spurs for the last 15 years. Yes, the Spurs are the only team that won a title but all of those squads made the finals. Making the finals is a pretty good start to winning a title.

    At what point do we accept that the Lakers are in a good market, but maybe, just maybe they have also been very well run? If being in a big market was all it took how do you explain New York, the Bulls from 1998 to 2008, the Clippers forever, the Warriors (they have Oakland AND San Francisco to draw from), Toronto (a HUGE market), being in a big market might mean something but it definitely doesn't mean everything. Management matters and whether anyone here wants to admit it or not, the Lakers, the Celtics, the Heat, all these teams have been very well run to get where they have been recently. Look at the Celtics specifically KG didn't even WANT to go there until Ainge made the move to bring Ray Allen in, it's not like KG was like ZOMG ZOMG THE CELTICS WANT ME AND I'M STUCK IN MINNY I MUST GO NOW. No, until they got Ray, KG was like, Boston is a cool city, but you know what I'm all good in Minnesota unless they get better.
    Funny that I was typing something similar at the same time, yep a lot of people don't want to admit that well run franchises like the Lakers attract players because they are "well run franchises" the same thing happens in SA, Boston, Miami, etc, you can have the biggest market in the world(see NY) but if you don't have an smart owner and a good FO you are screwed.

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