Page 9 of 11 FirstFirst ... 567891011 LastLast
Results 201 to 225 of 252

Thread: Why the Pacers will NOT compete for a championship in the next 5 years

  1. #201
    Believe in Roy! boombaby1987's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Bloomington
    Posts
    4,187

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Why the Pacers will NOT compete for a championship in the next 5 years

    Quote Originally Posted by Ace E.Anderson View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Why would Roy and Hill's agent wait any longer to be signed though? Yeah itd be nice to put off signing them for as long as possible so that we can try and make other deals, but this is a biz and they probably wanted to get signed ASAP. Hell they already waited a week into FA before signing with other teams. The pacers let it be known that they has till Friday to make their other moves before they needed to sign Roy and Hill back.

    Also, how are people going to make gripes about the Pacers only looking toninpeove their bench, and then be mad because they didn't get old, slow, amnestied players that would have played off the bench. Neither Brand nor Scola would be too much of a fit for our team defensively Our frontline is already slow and unathletic as it is, why add another shorter, slower PF that can only play C against certain teams. The pacers are trying to get younger and more athletic, signing either of these guys would have only been the opposite.

    Sorry, but I dont understand the first part of your argument at all. It just sounds like your making non-exisitent excuses for why we signed Hill so soon. Why would the team want them signed ASAP, when Hibbert was going to get a max deal, and there was no significant interest for Hill, not to mention, they were both restricted, so there was really no hurry.

    Second part of your argument sounds like you think any player over 30 is horrible. "We dont want Scola and Brand because their old, and because they are old, they can't contribute anything whatsoever. Thats just incorrect. Also, its important to know that very few championship teams win with younger players. The vast majority of championship teams have mostly veteran players.

  2. #202
    Member Ace E.Anderson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Indiana
    Posts
    5,118

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Why the Pacers will NOT compete for a championship in the next 5 years

    Quote Originally Posted by boombaby1987 View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Sorry, but I dont understand the first part of your argument at all. It just sounds like your making non-exisitent excuses for why we signed Hill so soon. Why would the team want them signed ASAP, when Hibbert was going to get a max deal, and there was no significant interest for Hill, not to mention, they were both restricted, so there was really no hurry.

    Second part of your argument sounds like you think any player over 30 is horrible. "We dont want Scola and Brand because their old, and because they are old, they can't contribute anything whatsoever. Thats just incorrect. Also, its important to know that very few championship teams win with younger players. The vast majority of championship teams have mostly veteran players.
    Whether you like it or not, Hill was a top priority for the franchise. They wanted to get him signed. If one wants to argue whether that was smart or not, I'd understand but it's not something I "made up" by any means.

    I didn't say we shouldn't get them because they're old. I said they shouldn't get them because they don't fill a particular need on this team, and simply adds to a weakness (slow, unathletic frontcourt) that we already had. The fact that they're over 30, and are on the decline only adds to reasons why we may not have attempted to sign them, but it's not the ONLY reason.

    And yes veteran teams normall win in the playoffs, but adding these players do not make us championship contenders regardless so that quells that argument. If we are going to get an older player, it should be someone that's going to come in and improve our starting 5 the way West did. If not then I don't have a problem with adding younger and more athletic guys to a bench when the team lacks athletes.

  3. The Following User Says Thank You to Ace E.Anderson For This Useful Post:


  4. #203
    Member Ace E.Anderson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Indiana
    Posts
    5,118

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Why the Pacers will NOT compete for a championship in the next 5 years

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    All they had to do was wait another day and get either player for free, I would also like to point out that many here were giving those who were "desperate" crap because "the Pacers had the whole summer to make something happen".


    VERY good point and I honestly didn't think about that lol.

    If you have an opportunity to ad high quality players to your team for free you do it not matter what.

    Don't trade for Ian and give him that long contract, don't sign Green, keep DJ/DC/Barbosa and only sign Scola and Brand and the bench would have been better than the new bench.

    DC,Barbosa,DJ,Scola and Brand >> DJ,Lance,Green,Tyler,Ian in my opinion.
    The only thing about the above bench is its lack of size and athleticism. Pretty darn good bench offensively, but only 2 of those players are average defensive players

  5. #204
    Professional Beachcomber mildlysane's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Port Charlotte, Florida
    Age
    43
    Posts
    1,263
    Mood

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Why the Pacers will NOT compete for a championship in the next 5 years

    We can only speculate, but maybe Roy and GHill wanted to sign when they did or they were going to sign somewhere else (for MAYBE more money), thus making us match whatever team signed them (and/or jump through hoops). It would seem a bit greedy, but during free agency (and restricted free agency) it is acceptable and expected that a player be greedy to "get his." I know we think that GHill had no other suitors, but do we know that for certain? I guess what I am saying is that perhaps the front office felt like that if they didn't sign them when they did, they may have risked costing themselves more or losing out on the players altogether. Again, all speculation on my part. Could be that our billionaire owner sat on his wallet so that he could "get his."
    Last edited by mildlysane; 08-19-2012 at 11:20 AM.

  6. The Following User Says Thank You to mildlysane For This Useful Post:


  7. #205
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Dillon, Co
    Posts
    3,900

    Default Re: Why the Pacers will NOT compete for a championship in the next 5 years

    Quote Originally Posted by mildlysane View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    We can only speculate, but maybe Roy and GHill wanted to sign when they did or they were going to sign somewhere else (for MAYBE more money), thus making us match whatever team signed them (and/or jump through hoops). It would seem a bit greedy, but during free agency (and restricted free agency) it is acceptable and expected that a player be greedy to "get his." I know we think that GHill had no other suitors, but do we know that for certain? I guess what I am saying is that perhaps the front office felt like that if they didn't sign them when they did, they may have risked costing themselves more or losing out on the players altogether. Again, all speculation on my part. Could be that our billionaire owner sat on his wallet so that he could "get his."

    The fact that we can only speculate is a real problem. Mavs fans don't have to speculate, they know that Cuban made a run for Williams and failed. They have nothing to complain about.
    Our F.O. needs to be more transparent with what they're doing for the fans sakes.

    Regarding Wells, why don't we all send him a request to get us some answers as to why the team didn't wait on Hill and Hibbert. You can't argue that Scola wasn't available to bid on. He was amnestied before the signings of Hill and Hibbert so they had the money if they just chose to wait a few days on the signings. If the reason was due to Hill and Hibbert wanting to sign earlier I guess we'd have to live with that but it's hard to believe that they wouldn't want to wait a few days to sign for their guaranteed money if it meant returning to a better team.
    My experience with asking Wells anything that might appear negative is that he blows it off. I've posted on his blog several times looking for a response and he won't respond.

  8. The Following User Says Thank You to Pacerized For This Useful Post:


  9. #206

    Default Re: Why the Pacers will NOT compete for a championship in the next 5 years

    IIRC, the deal with getting Roy to sign with the Pacers directly instead of going to Portland and having the Pacers match was the agreement to sign Roy to the exact same contract terms as Portland. That seems to indicate that the Pacers were on the clock with Roy and didn't have the opportunity to delay the signing.

    Don't think there was any news released on the Hill signing one way or the other. and not sure if the Pacers had cap space if they signed Roy and not Hill.

    Quote Originally Posted by mildlysane View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    We can only speculate, but maybe Roy and GHill wanted to sign when they did or they were going to sign somewhere else (for MAYBE more money), thus making us match whatever team signed them (and/or jump through hoops). It would seem a bit greedy, but during free agency (and restricted free agency) it is acceptable and expected that a player be greedy to "get his." I know we think that GHill had no other suitors, but do we know that for certain? I guess what I am saying is that perhaps the front office felt like that if they didn't sign them when they did, they may have risked costing themselves more or losing out on the players altogether. Again, all speculation on my part. Could be that our billionaire owner sat on his wallet so that he could "get his."

  10. The Following User Says Thank You to xIndyFan For This Useful Post:


  11. #207
    The Last Great Pacer BlueNGold's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Indianapolis
    Posts
    15,009

    Default Re: Why the Pacers will NOT compete for a championship in the next 5 years

    Quote Originally Posted by King Tuts Tomb View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    What teams qualify as small market? I usually see Minnesota listed as a small market team, but I've been there and that's a big area. Oakland as well. What criteria are we using?

    I googled around but couldn't find anything too definitive. I'd be interested in seeing where exactly we split the lines between big/medium/small markets.
    Big market isn't the same as big population. It's about exposure/fame/endorsements. For example, Toronto is huge but it's not a place players go to get more exposure. Same with Houston, which is enormous and has won NBA championships. It's tucked away in Texas and just not a place players flock to for exposure. They do kind of flock to San Antonio, but that's out of respect for the franchise and the chance to win.

  12. #208
    Running with the Big Boys BillS's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Danberry
    Age
    54
    Posts
    11,485

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Why the Pacers will NOT compete for a championship in the next 5 years

    Quote Originally Posted by Peck View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    To me I think that is the single most frustrating thing about this off season. One day, one lousy day and we could have had Elton Brand for a little more than 2 million dollars or if we would have waited about a week we could have had Louis Scola for even less. Either of them would have been better than either of the backups we have now.
    :
    :
    That is the one thing I just can't understand why did they have to sign both of them on that day and not wait till the amnestied players could be had on the cheap.
    I agree with some of this because of the way it is stated here vs. saying we CHOSE SPECIFICALLY NOT to get Scola.

    The mistake seems to have been in not scheduling the signing of Hill and Roy for after the amnesty period was complete. I suspect EITHER a lot of consensus from the owners was that no one big was going to be amnestied (everyone was pretty surprised about Scola) - which really isn't a very good excuse, they should have waited just for prudence sake - OR there was some pretty heavy pressure from Falk regarding the signing date for Roy - which might be more of a reason than we give it credit for.
    BillS

    "Every time I pitched it was like throwing gasoline on a fire. Pkkw! Pkkw! Pkkw! Pkkw!"
    - Ebby Calvin "Nuke" LaLoosh

  13. #209
    Banned
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Everywhere. I live in a big motorhome and I travel the entire country
    Age
    67
    Posts
    3,288
    Mood

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Why the Pacers will NOT compete for a championship in the next 5 years

    One of the main reasons the Pacers will not compete for a championship has been left out of this conversation. Their coach simply is not experience or good enough to lead them there........ I like Vogel but he is with the only team in the NBA who would consider using him as a head coach. Yes, I am rooting for a slow start so that he can be replaced by a coach who can win. The one sitting right next to him will do fine.... ...

  14. #210

    Default Re: Why the Pacers will NOT compete for a championship in the next 5 years

    Quote Originally Posted by BillS View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    . . . there was some pretty heavy pressure from Falk regarding the signing date for Roy - which might be more of a reason than we give it credit for.


    This seems so obvious an answer. Didn't the Pacers agree to the terms and timeline of the Portland deal to get Roy to sign directly with Indy? Thought I read something like that. Has anyone seen anything different?

  15. #211
    Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    South Side
    Posts
    4,134

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Why the Pacers will NOT compete for a championship in the next 5 years

    Question for Pacer fans.

    If the Pacers lose in the Eastern Conference Finals in 6 games to Miami, do you consider the Pacers as having contended for the championship?

    I don't consider this a completely unlikely scenario this season.

  16. The Following User Says Thank You to shags For This Useful Post:


  17. #212
    Professional Beachcomber mildlysane's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Port Charlotte, Florida
    Age
    43
    Posts
    1,263
    Mood

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Why the Pacers will NOT compete for a championship in the next 5 years

    Quote Originally Posted by shags View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Question for Pacer fans.

    If the Pacers lose in the Eastern Conference Finals in 6 games to Miami, do you consider the Pacers as having contended for the championship?

    I don't consider this a completely unlikely scenario this season.
    Yes and I agree that this is very possible. I think you could say that we competed for a Championship last year as well, as we performed pretty well verses the eventual Champs as well as how we did during the regular season.

  18. The Following User Says Thank You to mildlysane For This Useful Post:


  19. #213
    Intuition over Integers McKeyFan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Free Lance!
    Posts
    8,063

    Default Re: Why the Pacers will NOT compete for a championship in the next 5 years

    Quote Originally Posted by shags View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Question for Pacer fans.

    If the Pacers lose in the Eastern Conference Finals in 6 games to Miami, do you consider the Pacers as having contended for the championship?

    I don't consider this a completely unlikely scenario this season.
    That's a good question, and I think we were close to contending.

    But I wouldn't call it contending until it looks less like Lebron and DWade were playing cat and mouse with us and simply turned on the jets when they decided to make toys of us.
    .

    .

    .

    .


    “People talk about how quiet he [McKey] is, but he’s really been helpful. He gives a lot of insight to players in how to guard certain teams and what their weaknesses are. The whole team listens to him, and it makes my job a lot easier. Having players like him is what pro basketball is all about for me.” —Larry Brown

  20. #214
    It is ka Thankee sai Major Cold's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Garrett, IN
    Posts
    9,042
    Mood

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Why the Pacers will NOT compete for a championship in the next 5 years

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    SA got Duncan because they decided to tank to get him, they didn't say "hey less stay in the middle for a long time to see what happens" they were also pretty good at picking good players later in the draft.
    Boston also tanked to get him and they got Billups (who took years to develop).

    It is mostly about the luck of the draw....unless you can over something to FA. Like Miami, LA, NY, or even Dallas.

  21. #215
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Dillon, Co
    Posts
    3,900

    Default Re: Why the Pacers will NOT compete for a championship in the next 5 years

    This is off the topic, but it irks me a little when I see the recognition given to the Spurs as a class organization. Yes, they are extremely well ran but it's like everyone forgets the tank job they did to land Duncan. Of course luck played a factor but Robinson could have returned and Elliot may have been ready as well late in the season. The foundation of everything they've built has been on a tank job. I won't lie, I'd be o.k. if we had 4 championships built on a tank job but their would be a small asterisks beside them.

  22. #216
    It is ka Thankee sai Major Cold's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Garrett, IN
    Posts
    9,042
    Mood

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Why the Pacers will NOT compete for a championship in the next 5 years

    I think for the most part the taste of 4 championships would wipe the bitterness of tanking. It is a rarity in that the "ends justify the means".

  23. #217
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Indianapolis
    Age
    33
    Posts
    28,142

    Default Re: Why the Pacers will NOT compete for a championship in the next 5 years

    Quote Originally Posted by Pacerized View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    This is off the topic, but it irks me a little when I see the recognition given to the Spurs as a class organization. Yes, they are extremely well ran but it's like everyone forgets the tank job they did to land Duncan. Of course luck played a factor but Robinson could have returned and Elliot may have been ready as well late in the season. The foundation of everything they've built has been on a tank job. I won't lie, I'd be o.k. if we had 4 championships built on a tank job but their would be a small asterisks beside them.
    Yes they tanked and yes they are a class organization, just because they tanked doesn't put an asterisk next to their championships, that's the way the NBA system is, if you tank you have a possibility to get the highest pick and they were smart enough to tank.

    As an example the Colts tanked for Luck last year, does that make them less of an organization compared to other teams? nope, as soon as they start winning SB's nobody would even care to talk about the tanking year.

  24. #218
    It is ka Thankee sai Major Cold's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Garrett, IN
    Posts
    9,042
    Mood

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Why the Pacers will NOT compete for a championship in the next 5 years

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    As an example the Colts tanked for Luck last year, does that make them less of an organization compared to other teams? nope, as soon as they start winning SB's nobody would even care to talk about the tanking year.
    Kerry Collins=JOB


  25. #219
    Member Ace E.Anderson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Indiana
    Posts
    5,118

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Why the Pacers will NOT compete for a championship in the next 5 years

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Yes they tanked and yes they are a class organization, just because they tanked doesn't put an asterisk next to their championships, that's the way the NBA system is, if you tank you have a possibility to get the highest pick and they were smart enough to tank.
    what happens when you tank, but don't end up with the first pick in the draft? Yes the Spurs were lucky enough to get Duncan, but the Celtics who also tanked, ended up with Billups. Big difference in caliber of player there. If you tank and don't end up with the right pick, you're not going to get that franchise altering player.

  26. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Ace E.Anderson For This Useful Post:


  27. #220
    Running with the Big Boys BillS's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Danberry
    Age
    54
    Posts
    11,485

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Why the Pacers will NOT compete for a championship in the next 5 years

    Quote Originally Posted by Ace E.Anderson View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    what happens when you tank, but don't end up with the first pick in the draft? Yes the Spurs were lucky enough to get Duncan, but the Celtics who also tanked, ended up with Billups. Big difference in caliber of player there. If you tank and don't end up with the right pick, you're not going to get that franchise altering player.
    This.

    The other thing is that probably the most recent franchise player to prove out, Derrick Rose, was gotten by Chicago moving up from a non-tank lottery position. Never mind that they didn't score as good a player in years they did much worse, imagine if THAT had been the year the Pacers tanked and then got leapfrogged by #10.

    Before clearing the decks and playing for a draft pick becomes anything even close to an option (as opposed to a gamble), the forecast of the actual pick needs to be easier to determine. The other side of the coin from making the first pick harder to get with a single-season tank would also be that teams would know pretty much exactly where they were going to fall and could plan accordingly.
    BillS

    "Every time I pitched it was like throwing gasoline on a fire. Pkkw! Pkkw! Pkkw! Pkkw!"
    - Ebby Calvin "Nuke" LaLoosh

  28. #221
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Indianapolis
    Age
    33
    Posts
    28,142

    Default Re: Why the Pacers will NOT compete for a championship in the next 5 years

    =Ace E.Anderson;1494627]what happens when you tank, but don't end up with the first pick in the draft?
    Nothing, you just pick the best player available and keep rebuilding, an smart FO could find ways to get multiple picks and players if they don't like their position, just because you don't get the number one pick doesn't mind that you have failed, every year multiple good players are drafted after the number one pick.

    Yes the Spurs were lucky enough to get Duncan, but the Celtics who also tanked, ended up with Billups. Big difference in caliber of player there. If you tank and don't end up with the right pick, you're not going to get that franchise altering player.
    Or if you don't tank and you are an "small market team" you don't get that franchise altering player either, tanking gives you a better chance to get that player that staying in mediocrity waiting for a player to come here or the front office to try to get that player.

  29. #222
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Indianapolis
    Age
    33
    Posts
    28,142

    Default Re: Why the Pacers will NOT compete for a championship in the next 5 years

    Quote Originally Posted by BillS View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    This.

    The other thing is that probably the most recent franchise player to prove out, Derrick Rose, was gotten by Chicago moving up from a non-tank lottery position. Never mind that they didn't score as good a player in years they did much worse, imagine if THAT had been the year the Pacers tanked and then got leapfrogged by #10.

    Before clearing the decks and playing for a draft pick becomes anything even close to an option (as opposed to a gamble), the forecast of the actual pick needs to be easier to determine. The other side of the coin from making the first pick harder to get with a single-season tank would also be that teams would know pretty much exactly where they were going to fall and could plan accordingly.
    Chicago was pretty good at drafting before Rose they just didn't know what to do with the pieces, they are still pretty good without Rose, they got the best record in the east without him for most of the season.

  30. #223

    Default Re: Why the Pacers will NOT compete for a championship in the next 5 years

    ITT: A lot of people who are clearly smarter than every NBA GM but for some reason don't have a FO job.

  31. The Following User Says Thank You to PacersHomer For This Useful Post:

    J7F

  32. #224
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Indianapolis
    Age
    33
    Posts
    28,142

    Default Re: Why the Pacers will NOT compete for a championship in the next 5 years

    Quote Originally Posted by PacersHomer View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    ITT: A lot of people who are clearly smarter than every NBA GM but for some reason don't have a FO job.
    And then Orlando's front office destroys this thinking.........

  33. #225
    Play McRoberts and Price! BRushWithDeath's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Johnson's Bay, Lake Wawasee
    Age
    28
    Posts
    5,273

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Why the Pacers will NOT compete for a championship in the next 5 years

    Quote Originally Posted by xIndyFan View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote


    This seems so obvious an answer. Didn't the Pacers agree to the terms and timeline of the Portland deal to get Roy to sign directly with Indy? Thought I read something like that. Has anyone seen anything different?
    Why were we so worried about Hibbert or Hill signing on offer sheet? What is the harm in it? We were already paying at market price for Hibbert and probably above market price for Hill. They were restricted free agents. If re-signing both of them was our priority, which clearly it was, their choosing to sign with another team would not effect that one iota. If the timeline got to the point that Hibbert and Hill were tired of waiting, which is certainly their right, them signing an offer sheet just gives us three days to decide to match.

    Which, unless my understanding of the situation is completely wrong, is also three additional days of huge cap flexibility which could have been used to actually improve the team rather than just alter it.
    "I had to take her down like Chris Brown."

    -Lance Stephenson

  34. The Following User Says Thank You to BRushWithDeath For This Useful Post:


Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 1
    Last Post: 04-06-2011, 07:31 AM
  2. Replies: 0
    Last Post: 02-17-2011, 09:20 PM
  3. Kobe Bryant and Pau Gasol think FC Barcelona could compete [ESPN]
    By RoboHicks in forum NBA Headlines (RSS Feeds)
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 10-07-2010, 09:40 PM
  4. Replies: 0
    Last Post: 02-04-2010, 06:20 PM
  5. Pacers 100-1 to win next years NBA championship.
    By Will Galen in forum Indiana Pacers
    Replies: 15
    Last Post: 07-03-2009, 09:08 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •