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Thread: Upset about Mahimni's contract? Consider this...

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    Default Re: Upset about Mahimni's contract? Consider this...

    Listed numbers being whatever they may, you will easily notice the difference in height and length between Lou and Ian when you see him play. It's a significant difference.

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    Default Re: Upset about Mahimni's contract? Consider this...

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks View Post
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    Listed numbers being whatever they may, you will easily notice the difference in height and length between Lou and Ian when you see him play. It's a significant difference.
    I know the whole NBA "listed" height is a mystery to me, but (to me at least) Lou looked very small against many C's and even some PF's. Ian is definitely a legit 6'11

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    Default Re: Upset about Mahimni's contract? Consider this...

    Lou was 6'7 1/4" at the combine. 6'8 with shoes. Can't find anything but the team measurements for Mahinmi, which are always questionable.

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    Default Re: Upset about Mahimni's contract? Consider this...

    Quote Originally Posted by ballism View Post
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    re the general point - i agree, there's no reason to be upset about the contract.

    the trade was the upsetting part.

    the contract size is fine.
    obviously, he'll have to live up to it. Brendan Haywood could've been had for 2 mil per, and Mahinmi didn't exactly outplay him last year.
    but it's a solid bet. Mahinmi's young and solid.
    Trade upset me too, but heard it might have been done to help free up space for green and augustin? Been trying to give the FO some benefit of the doubt on that one.

    Was also bothered that Landry was 2 year 8 mill. I'm not even a Landry fan, but for that I think he would have been a great addition.
    Danger Zone

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    Default Re: Upset about Mahimni's contract? Consider this...

    Lou always looked a bit short to me (and, I know this is a weird way to say this, Hans looks really short for his size.)
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    Default Re: Upset about Mahimni's contract? Consider this...

    Quote Originally Posted by wintermute View Post
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    Of your list, Haywood, Andersen, Gomes are already amnestied, Brad Miller is already bought out, and the Kwame Brown and Nazr Mohammed info is outdated. Kwame and Nazr are now on much cheaper contracts, as listed below.

    That list reads like a who's who of overpaid backup bigs in the NBA. I'm not at all proud that our new signing seems to fit right in with that bunch. The only names I like on the list are Hayes and Amir Johnson, but even I realize that their production don't match their contracts. Hayes especially has been disappointing on the Kings.

    A fairer comparison would be to see how much other similar bigs signed for this offseason. Here's a (more or less) comprehensive list of such signings (ordered by annual salary):

    Omer Asik, 3 years $25m, Rockets
    Brandon Bass, 3 years $20m, Celtics
    Spencer Hawes, 2 years $13m, Sixers
    Jason Thompson, 5 years $30m, Kings
    Robin Lopez, 3 years $15m, Hornets
    Boris Diaw, 2 years $9m, Spurs
    Marreese Speights, 2 years $9m, Grizzlies
    Marcus Camby, 3 years $13m, Knicks
    Ian Mahinmi, 4 years $16m, Pacers
    Jordan Hill, 2 years $8m, Lakers
    Carl Landry, 2 years $8m, Warriors
    JJ Hickson, 1 year $4m, Blazers
    Mirza Teletovic, 3 years $9m, Nets
    Kwame Brown, 2 years $6m, Sixers
    Lavoy Allen, 2 years $6m, Sixers
    Greg Stiemsma, 2 years $5m, TWolves
    Anthony Randolph, 3 years $6m, Nuggets
    Reggie Evans, 3 years $5m, Nets
    Vyacheslav Kravtsov, 2 years $3m, Pistons
    Hamed Haddadi, 2 years $2.3m, Grizzlies
    Hasheem Thabeet, 2 years $2m, Thunder
    Nazr Mohammed, 1 year vet min, Bulls
    Jason Collins, 1 year vet min, Celtics
    Joel Przybilla, 1 year vet min, Bucks
    Ronny Turiaf, 1 year vet min, Clippers
    Chris Wilcox, 1 year vet min, Celtics

    (I'm probably missing some vet min guys)

    I've leave it up to the reader to judge for himself/herself whether Mahinmi's contract is good value in light of other teams' signings. I will point out though that his 4 year contract stands out - only Jason Thompson of the Kings got a longer contract. In terms of annual salary, the guys at the top are expected to start, while the guys at the bottom are obvious backups. Mahinmi's $4m annual salary would fall somewhere in the middle.

    To me anyway, I think Mahinmi's contract comes up with raised expectations. He's being paid like a core rotation player, so I'm expecting him to be able to hold down a rotation spot at least.
    I think looking at past contracts as well as current contracts are the only way to judge this contract. How does his contract compare to recent contracts of comparable players and also how does it compare to current peers.

    Any way you look at it - his contract is not too bad. Now he just has to perform.
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    Default Re: Upset about Mahimni's contract? Consider this...

    If they didn't give it to him I wouldn't have made these, so there's that




    He just seems like a fun, good natured dude, I think he's going to be a nice fit culturally at least.

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    Default Re: Upset about Mahimni's contract? Consider this...

    The way I look at it is that we traded DC and DJ for Ian and DJ. I think we upgraded two rotation positions. Do I think we could have gotten more "value" in trading DC, possibly, but "value" is in the eye of the beholder. I think we were doing DC a favor as much as anything since we knew we wanted to go in a different direction.

    Ian is a well worth what we gave him. The thing I notice from that list are the people who have as much talent as Ian are either paid more or are head cases. Ian has a ton of raw talent that he has proven that he can grow as a player. I think we prioritize, when evaluating a player, their ability to grow. The four years is the most important part of the deal. We get stability from him and a chance to help him continue to grow. He is paid like a rotation player, but he also gets the security of a fourth year. I think the deal was brilliant and that made me go from scratching my head a little with that trade (from a cap standpoint) to being thrilled about.

    Ian was a vastly improved player last year over previous years.
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    Default Re: Upset about Mahimni's contract? Consider this...

    Quote Originally Posted by Heisenberg View Post
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    Lou was 6'7 1/4" at the combine. 6'8 with shoes. Can't find anything but the team measurements for Mahinmi, which are always questionable.
    Making Tyler Hansbrough a full inch taller than Lou, which is pretty damning for Lou. Tyler is 6'8.25".

    Ian is pretty clearly superior to both of them in terms of height. I see him listed in shoes at 6'10 or 6'11 depending on where you look. I can't pin down his measurements, but when Googling I did notice references to him having a good wingspan, which given his height and position I'm assuming that means it's probably no less than 7'2" or so.

    Height certainly isn't everything, but typically more is better in this case. Physically speaking, I'd rather have an athletic 6'10/6'11 guy with a 7'2+" wingspan at backup 5 than an athletic 6'8 guy with a 6'11.5" wingspan.

    I'll add that after watching Ian on SynergySports the other night, I'm confident he's more offensively skilled than Lou. A low bar to cross, but nonetheless he does cross it by a couple of notches. He's pretty rough himself, but compared to Lou he's Roy Hibbert.

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    Default Re: Upset about Mahimni's contract? Consider this...

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks View Post
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    Making Tyler Hansbrough a full inch taller than Lou, which is pretty damning for Lou.
    I think Tyler looks so much smaller than his listed height because of posture more than anything. Meaning, he seems to actually be hunched over 95% of the time on the court. It's like he's slouching. It almost reminds me of a turtle or something.

    It's why he can be an inch taller than Lou in a combine measurement but still look smaller in real life.
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    Default Re: Upset about Mahimni's contract? Consider this...

    This just occurred to me, but it makes sense that Rick Carlisle would pick up the phone and call Larry if a solid potential player was available.

    What I don't know, because I don't follow caps and LT and stuff, is whether Dallas was in some kind of position where Cuban was telling Rick that Ian would probably have to be sacrificed. If so, Rick calls his bud Larry and tips him off. Larry goes for it, because who knows better than the guy's actual coach if the "potential" thing is real or just idle talk?
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    Default Re: Upset about Mahimni's contract? Consider this...



    All I know is that Lou was responsible for 3 of the top 10 plays of the year & was in there for another one. I just hope we didn't lose anything for 2" of height. I've watche Ian on mysyngy as well and right now I think he is going to be a better offensive player than Lou but I don't think he will be nearly as physical.

    I don't mind a better backup big man but I guess IMO we upgraded the wrong backup. I'd rather have Ian & Lou than Ian & Tyler.


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    Default Re: Upset about Mahimni's contract? Consider this...

    Quote Originally Posted by Peck View Post
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    All I know is that Lou was responsible for 3 of the top 10 plays of the year & was in there for another one. I just hope we didn't lose anything for 2" of height. I've watche Ian on mysyngy as well and right now I think he is going to be a better offensive player than Lou but I don't think he will be nearly as physical.

    I don't mind a better backup big man but I guess IMO we upgraded the wrong backup. I'd rather have Ian & Lou than Ian & Tyler.
    The only thing I have against that lineup is the lack of frontcourt scoring/finishing ability. As much as we dislike Hans on this board, he still netted 8pts a game, and had been a double digit scoring season in the past. He at least provides a threat of being able to score. Lou is a complete nonfactor offensively and when he's struggling on defense as well, he's basically useless to have in the game. Also it's more than just 2" of height. It's length, and athleticism which we desperately lacked up front. He gives us a presence of size in the paint when Roy is on the bench, or potentially gives a twin towers type look when he plays alongside Roy.

    I get your point Peck and I like Lou a lot and we will miss his energy, but he hamstrung us a few times because of his shortcomings.
    Last edited by Ace E.Anderson; 08-15-2012 at 05:33 PM.

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    Default Re: Upset about Mahimni's contract? Consider this...

    Quote Originally Posted by McKeyFan View Post
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    This just occurred to me, but it makes sense that Rick Carlisle would pick up the phone and call Larry if a solid potential player was available.

    What I don't know, because I don't follow caps and LT and stuff, is whether Dallas was in some kind of position where Cuban was telling Rick that Ian would probably have to be sacrificed. If so, Rick calls his bud Larry and tips him off. Larry goes for it, because who knows better than the guy's actual coach if the "potential" thing is real or just idle talk?
    It woudn't surprise me if something like that happened. Although it helped the Mavs were still looking for a decent starting PG.

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    Default Re: Upset about Mahimni's contract? Consider this...

    Quote Originally Posted by BRushWithDeath View Post
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    I think Tyler looks so much smaller than his listed height because of posture more than anything. Meaning, he seems to actually be hunched over 95% of the time on the court. It's like he's slouching. It almost reminds me of a turtle or something.

    It's why he can be an inch taller than Lou in a combine measurement but still look smaller in real life.
    Add in that Hansbrough doesn't have much of a vertical leap....it doesn't help him on the offensive or defensive end.

    If he could learn to play more like Glen Davis, then that would be better. Hansbrough is strong.....but can't really leap very high. If he was able to establish very good positioning...it may help his defense.
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    Default Re: Upset about Mahimni's contract? Consider this...

    Quote Originally Posted by CableKC View Post
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    Add in that Hansbrough doesn't have much of a vertical leap....it doesn't help him on the offensive or defensive end.

    If he could learn to play more like Glen Davis, then that would be better. Hansbrough is strong.....but can't really leap very high. If he was able to establish very good positioning...it may help his defense.
    Davis has great feet though and is pretty quick and nimble, obviously Tyler has none of that. It'd be great, and Hans could learn a lot from watching tape of guys like Davis, he just doesn't have the physical advantages that Davis has.

    Yes. Tyler Hansbrough doesn't have the physical advantages of Glen Davis. I just said that.

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    Default Re: Upset about Mahimni's contract? Consider this...

    Lou was terrible against Miami, completely useless. He's a decent regular season big when teams don't plan for him, but in the postseason his weaknesses can be exploited much easier. I'd rather have Lou/Ian as well but Tyler is negative value atm. They wouldn't have done this deal for Ian, had they been able to get rid of Tyler for anything, a 2nd but they needed the roster spots to get Green and Augustin.
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    Default Re: Upset about Mahimni's contract? Consider this...

    Quote Originally Posted by CableKC View Post
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    Add in that Hansbrough doesn't have much of a vertical leap....it doesn't help him on the offensive or defensive end.
    Griffin’s 35.5 inches
    Hansbrough's 34 inches
    Westbrook's 36.5 inches

    What was that about vertical leap again? Dude has T-Rex arms. Vertical and athleticism is not a crutch of Tyler's.

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    Default Re: Upset about Mahimni's contract? Consider this...

    Quote Originally Posted by Noodle View Post
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    Griffin’s 35.5 inches
    Hansbrough's 34 inches
    Westbrook's 36.5 inches

    What was that about vertical leap again? Dude has T-Rex arms. Vertical and athleticism is not a crutch of Tyler's.
    Terrible defense and being a complete black hole on offense are, unfortunately.

    Didn't your avatar have some crazy vertical number?

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    Default Re: Upset about Mahimni's contract? Consider this...

    TBH the only thing about the Mahinmi contract that would bother me as a Pacers fan is the fact that Indy could have signed him outright to an identical deal without trading away Collison and Inferno. As a Mavs fan, I'm glad that the FO didn't go that route.

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    Default Re: Upset about Mahimni's contract? Consider this...

    Quote Originally Posted by cdash View Post
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    Terrible defense and being a complete black hole on offense are, unfortunately.

    Didn't your avatar have some crazy vertical number?
    40.5" I believe. Why?

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    Default Re: Upset about Mahimni's contract? Consider this...

    Quote Originally Posted by Noodle View Post
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    40.5" I believe. Why?
    I was just curious. You always hear all the "amazing measurables" chatter surrounding Plumlee, but that number alone doesn't mean much to me unless it is lined up against others. Impressive number.

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    Default Re: Upset about Mahimni's contract? Consider this...

    Quote Originally Posted by Peck View Post
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    All I know is that Lou was responsible for 3 of the top 10 plays of the year & was in there for another one. I just hope we didn't lose anything for 2" of height. I've watche Ian on mysyngy as well and right now I think he is going to be a better offensive player than Lou but I don't think he will be nearly as physical.

    I don't mind a better backup big man but I guess IMO we upgraded the wrong backup. I'd rather have Ian & Lou than Ian & Tyler.
    I rather have Lou for 2mil a year than Ian for that contract, the upgrade is not that big I don't think, not only that but they gave DC away to get him.

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    Default Re: Upset about Mahimni's contract? Consider this...

    The only fair comparison for Ian's contract would be to other new cba contracts and as such I think we overpaid somewhat and didn't have to offer so many years. He's been in the league for 5 years now and has been able to work with 2 of the best big men in the game in Duncan and Dirk yet hasn't really done much yet so I think a 4 year commitment is a stretch.
    Having said that I'm not highly upset over his contract, the trade upsets me more. We had cap space and so did Cuban. I think it says something that Cuban would rather have Kaman and DC then Ian. We didn't use all our cap space anyway so I'd much rather have signed Kaman for 8 mil then Ian for 4 mil. especially when looking at the length of their contracts.

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    Default Re: Upset about Mahimni's contract? Consider this...

    Quote Originally Posted by spreedom View Post
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    TBH the only thing about the Mahinmi contract that would bother me as a Pacers fan is the fact that Indy could have signed him outright to an identical deal without trading away Collison and Inferno. As a Mavs fan, I'm glad that the FO didn't go that route.
    They did so in order to free up a roster space and cap room to sign Green and DJ.

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