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  1. #1
    FREE LANCE MillerTime's Avatar
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    Default Upset about Mahimni's contract? Consider this...

    Big men in this league are always overpaid...look at the comparables...


    Consider this...
    Johan Petro $3,500,000
    Mirza Teletovic $3,090,000
    DeSagana Diop $7,372,200
    Brendan Haywood $7,624,500
    Chris Andersen $4,234,000
    Jason Maxiell $5,000,000
    Ryan Gomes $4,000,000
    Joel Anthony $3,600,000
    Kwame Brown $6,750,000
    Brad Miller $4,752,000
    Nazr Mohammed $3,750,000
    Hakim Warrick $4,000,000
    Chuck Hayes $5,250,000
    Amir Johnson $5,500,000

    looking back at it, his contact isnt that bad.
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    Default Re: Upset about Mahimni's contract? Consider this...

    I want to thank this 1,000 times.
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    Default Re: Upset about Mahimni's contract? Consider this...

    Short, sweet, to the point. I like it!
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    Default Re: Upset about Mahimni's contract? Consider this...

    And to think we could have had Mirza Teletovic for only $3M/year...

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    Default Re: Upset about Mahimni's contract? Consider this...

    Quote Originally Posted by Pingu View Post
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    And to think we could have had Mirza Teletovic for only $3M/year...
    Isn't he going to be something like Murphleavy without the rebounding and horrendous contract?
    yay, we're going back to the play-offs!

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    Default Re: Upset about Mahimni's contract? Consider this...

    Quote Originally Posted by pacersgroningen View Post
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    Isn't he going to be something like Murphleavy without the rebounding and horrendous contract?
    i think a copy of Tyler. a bit more range.

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    Default Re: Upset about Mahimni's contract? Consider this...

    Quote Originally Posted by MillerTime View Post
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    Big men in this league are always overpaid...look at the comparables...


    Consider this...
    Johan Petro $3,500,000
    Mirza Teletovic $3,090,000
    DeSagana Diop $7,372,200
    Brendan Haywood $7,624,500
    Chris Andersen $4,234,000
    Jason Maxiell $5,000,000
    Ryan Gomes $4,000,000
    Joel Anthony $3,600,000
    Kwame Brown $6,750,000
    Brad Miller $4,752,000
    Nazr Mohammed $3,750,000
    Hakim Warrick $4,000,000
    Chuck Hayes $5,250,000
    Amir Johnson $5,500,000

    looking back at it, his contact isnt that bad.
    Of your list, Haywood, Andersen, Gomes are already amnestied, Brad Miller is already bought out, and the Kwame Brown and Nazr Mohammed info is outdated. Kwame and Nazr are now on much cheaper contracts, as listed below.

    That list reads like a who's who of overpaid backup bigs in the NBA. I'm not at all proud that our new signing seems to fit right in with that bunch. The only names I like on the list are Hayes and Amir Johnson, but even I realize that their production don't match their contracts. Hayes especially has been disappointing on the Kings.

    A fairer comparison would be to see how much other similar bigs signed for this offseason. Here's a (more or less) comprehensive list of such signings (ordered by annual salary):

    Omer Asik, 3 years $25m, Rockets
    Brandon Bass, 3 years $20m, Celtics
    Spencer Hawes, 2 years $13m, Sixers
    Jason Thompson, 5 years $30m, Kings
    Robin Lopez, 3 years $15m, Hornets
    Boris Diaw, 2 years $9m, Spurs
    Marreese Speights, 2 years $9m, Grizzlies
    Marcus Camby, 3 years $13m, Knicks
    Ian Mahinmi, 4 years $16m, Pacers
    Jordan Hill, 2 years $8m, Lakers
    Carl Landry, 2 years $8m, Warriors
    JJ Hickson, 1 year $4m, Blazers
    Mirza Teletovic, 3 years $9m, Nets
    Kwame Brown, 2 years $6m, Sixers
    Lavoy Allen, 2 years $6m, Sixers
    Greg Stiemsma, 2 years $5m, TWolves
    Anthony Randolph, 3 years $6m, Nuggets
    Reggie Evans, 3 years $5m, Nets
    Vyacheslav Kravtsov, 2 years $3m, Pistons
    Hamed Haddadi, 2 years $2.3m, Grizzlies
    Hasheem Thabeet, 2 years $2m, Thunder
    Nazr Mohammed, 1 year vet min, Bulls
    Jason Collins, 1 year vet min, Celtics
    Joel Przybilla, 1 year vet min, Bucks
    Ronny Turiaf, 1 year vet min, Clippers
    Chris Wilcox, 1 year vet min, Celtics

    (I'm probably missing some vet min guys)

    I've leave it up to the reader to judge for himself/herself whether Mahinmi's contract is good value in light of other teams' signings. I will point out though that his 4 year contract stands out - only Jason Thompson of the Kings got a longer contract. In terms of annual salary, the guys at the top are expected to start, while the guys at the bottom are obvious backups. Mahinmi's $4m annual salary would fall somewhere in the middle.

    To me anyway, I think Mahinmi's contract comes up with raised expectations. He's being paid like a core rotation player, so I'm expecting him to be able to hold down a rotation spot at least.
    Last edited by wintermute; 08-15-2012 at 06:03 AM.

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    Default Re: Upset about Mahimni's contract? Consider this...

    Quote Originally Posted by wintermute View Post
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    Of your list, Haywood, Andersen, Gomes are already amnestied, Brad Miller is already bought out, and the Kwame Brown and Nazr Mohammed info is outdated. Kwame and Nazr are now on much cheaper contracts, as listed below.

    That list reads like a who's who of overpaid backup bigs in the NBA. I'm not at all proud that our new signing seems to fit right in with that bunch. The only names I like on the list are Hayes and Amir Johnson, but even I realize that their production don't match their contracts. Hayes especially has been disappointing on the Kings.

    A fairer comparison would be to see how much other similar bigs signed for this offseason. Here's a (more or less) comprehensive list of such signings (ordered by annual salary):

    Omer Asik, 3 years $25m, Rockets
    Brandon Bass, 3 years $20m, Celtics
    Spencer Hawes, 2 years $13m, Sixers
    Jason Thompson, 5 years $30m, Kings
    Robin Lopez, 3 years $15m, Hornets
    Boris Diaw, 2 years $9m, Spurs
    Marreese Speights, 2 years $9m, Grizzlies
    Marcus Camby, 3 years $13m, Knicks
    Ian Mahinmi, 4 years $16m, Pacers
    Jordan Hill, 2 years $8m, Lakers
    Carl Landry, 2 years $8m, Warriors
    JJ Hickson, 1 year $4m, Blazers
    Mirza Teletovic, 3 years $9m, Nets
    Kwame Brown, 2 years $6m, Sixers
    Lavoy Allen, 2 years $6m, Sixers
    Greg Stiemsma, 2 years $5m, TWolves
    Anthony Randolph, 3 years $6m, Nuggets
    Reggie Evans, 3 years $5m, Nets
    Vyacheslav Kravtsov, 2 years $3m, Pistons
    Hamed Haddadi, 2 years $2.3m, Grizzlies
    Hasheem Thabeet, 2 years $2m, Thunder
    Nazr Mohammed, 1 year vet min, Bulls
    Jason Collins, 1 year vet min, Celtics
    Joel Przybilla, 1 year vet min, Bucks
    Ronny Turiaf, 1 year vet min, Clippers
    Chris Wilcox, 1 year vet min, Celtics

    (I'm probably missing some vet min guys)

    I've leave it up to the reader to judge for himself/herself whether Mahinmi's contract is good value in light of other teams' signings. I will point out though that his 4 year contract stands out - only Jason Thompson of the Kings got a longer contract. In terms of annual salary, the guys at the top are expected to start, while the guys at the bottom are obvious backups. Mahinmi's $4m annual salary would fall somewhere in the middle.

    To me anyway, I think Mahinmi's contract comes up with raised expectations. He's being paid like a core rotation player, so I'm expecting him to be able to hold down a rotation spot at least.
    I just used the numbers available at Shamsports
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    Default Re: Upset about Mahimni's contract? Consider this...

    Quote Originally Posted by MillerTime View Post
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    I just used the numbers available at Shamsports
    Shamsports gets updated about once or twice a year, as far as i've seen they aren't up to date now.

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    Default Re: Upset about Mahimni's contract? Consider this...

    The way I look at it is that we traded DC and DJ for Ian and DJ. I think we upgraded two rotation positions. Do I think we could have gotten more "value" in trading DC, possibly, but "value" is in the eye of the beholder. I think we were doing DC a favor as much as anything since we knew we wanted to go in a different direction.

    Ian is a well worth what we gave him. The thing I notice from that list are the people who have as much talent as Ian are either paid more or are head cases. Ian has a ton of raw talent that he has proven that he can grow as a player. I think we prioritize, when evaluating a player, their ability to grow. The four years is the most important part of the deal. We get stability from him and a chance to help him continue to grow. He is paid like a rotation player, but he also gets the security of a fourth year. I think the deal was brilliant and that made me go from scratching my head a little with that trade (from a cap standpoint) to being thrilled about.

    Ian was a vastly improved player last year over previous years.
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    Default Re: Upset about Mahimni's contract? Consider this...

    Quote Originally Posted by wintermute View Post
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    To me anyway, I think Mahinmi's contract comes up with raised expectations. He's being paid like a core rotation player, so I'm expecting him to be able to hold down a rotation spot at least.
    Yep. We're out on a limb somewhat here. Yes, he's regarded as a Mr. P. But, now he has to realize it at least to the level of a regular second - line contributor. Otherwise, we'll have some egg on our face, at least in terms of contract length.

    Along the same lines, this seemed to be the main strategy for our three offseason (non-draft) acquisitions. Go for potential types and hope we get larger than expected returns. Mahinmi and Green both could feasibly develop pretty far beyond their established baseline performance. Agustin could recoup pre-injury, pre-abjectly awful Bobcats performance.

    Only issue is, as we know, the "P" game is always a crap shoot. But, it's probably a good philosophy for us assuming that we were unfortunately never legit players for the FA big names.
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    Default Re: Upset about Mahimni's contract? Consider this...

    Quote Originally Posted by wintermute View Post
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    Of your list, Haywood, Andersen, Gomes are already amnestied, Brad Miller is already bought out, and the Kwame Brown and Nazr Mohammed info is outdated. Kwame and Nazr are now on much cheaper contracts, as listed below.

    That list reads like a who's who of overpaid backup bigs in the NBA. I'm not at all proud that our new signing seems to fit right in with that bunch. The only names I like on the list are Hayes and Amir Johnson, but even I realize that their production don't match their contracts. Hayes especially has been disappointing on the Kings.

    A fairer comparison would be to see how much other similar bigs signed for this offseason. Here's a (more or less) comprehensive list of such signings (ordered by annual salary):

    Omer Asik, 3 years $25m, Rockets
    Brandon Bass, 3 years $20m, Celtics
    Spencer Hawes, 2 years $13m, Sixers
    Jason Thompson, 5 years $30m, Kings
    Robin Lopez, 3 years $15m, Hornets
    Boris Diaw, 2 years $9m, Spurs
    Marreese Speights, 2 years $9m, Grizzlies
    Marcus Camby, 3 years $13m, Knicks
    Ian Mahinmi, 4 years $16m, Pacers
    Jordan Hill, 2 years $8m, Lakers
    Carl Landry, 2 years $8m, Warriors
    JJ Hickson, 1 year $4m, Blazers
    Mirza Teletovic, 3 years $9m, Nets
    Kwame Brown, 2 years $6m, Sixers
    Lavoy Allen, 2 years $6m, Sixers
    Greg Stiemsma, 2 years $5m, TWolves
    Anthony Randolph, 3 years $6m, Nuggets
    Reggie Evans, 3 years $5m, Nets
    Vyacheslav Kravtsov, 2 years $3m, Pistons
    Hamed Haddadi, 2 years $2.3m, Grizzlies
    Hasheem Thabeet, 2 years $2m, Thunder
    Nazr Mohammed, 1 year vet min, Bulls
    Jason Collins, 1 year vet min, Celtics
    Joel Przybilla, 1 year vet min, Bucks
    Ronny Turiaf, 1 year vet min, Clippers
    Chris Wilcox, 1 year vet min, Celtics

    (I'm probably missing some vet min guys)

    I've leave it up to the reader to judge for himself/herself whether Mahinmi's contract is good value in light of other teams' signings. I will point out though that his 4 year contract stands out - only Jason Thompson of the Kings got a longer contract. In terms of annual salary, the guys at the top are expected to start, while the guys at the bottom are obvious backups. Mahinmi's $4m annual salary would fall somewhere in the middle.

    To me anyway, I think Mahinmi's contract comes up with raised expectations. He's being paid like a core rotation player, so I'm expecting him to be able to hold down a rotation spot at least.
    I think looking at past contracts as well as current contracts are the only way to judge this contract. How does his contract compare to recent contracts of comparable players and also how does it compare to current peers.

    Any way you look at it - his contract is not too bad. Now he just has to perform.
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    Default Re: Upset about Mahimni's contract? Consider this...

    wintermute and I agree, plus he's using more recent contracts, and not last year's numbers.

    Ian got a pretty fair contract to me.

    The only thing I'm not too happy about is that he isn't a strong rebounder. West isn't a strong rebounder, Tyler isn't a strong rebounder, Ian not a strong rebounder. Hibbs, while not elite, is an above average rebounder.

    I guess Plumlee is a strong rebounder, but he certainly didn't show it at Summer League.

    Vogel has his work cut out for him and so he better be preaching and teaching guys to box out. Lack of rebounders could hurt.

    Also, Hibbs and Ian are both foul prone. I could see Plumlee getting some minutes this year. If the Pacers don't bring in another PF, I would hope that Plumlee work his way into the backup PF if Tyler continues to struggle.
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    Default Re: Upset about Mahimni's contract? Consider this...

    re the general point - i agree, there's no reason to be upset about the contract.

    the trade was the upsetting part.

    the contract size is fine.
    obviously, he'll have to live up to it. Brendan Haywood could've been had for 2 mil per, and Mahinmi didn't exactly outplay him last year.
    but it's a solid bet. Mahinmi's young and solid.

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    Default Re: Upset about Mahimni's contract? Consider this...

    Quote Originally Posted by ballism View Post
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    re the general point - i agree, there's no reason to be upset about the contract.

    the trade was the upsetting part.

    the contract size is fine.
    obviously, he'll have to live up to it. Brendan Haywood could've been had for 2 mil per, and Mahinmi didn't exactly outplay him last year.
    but it's a solid bet. Mahinmi's young and solid.
    Trade upset me too, but heard it might have been done to help free up space for green and augustin? Been trying to give the FO some benefit of the doubt on that one.

    Was also bothered that Landry was 2 year 8 mill. I'm not even a Landry fan, but for that I think he would have been a great addition.
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    Default Re: Upset about Mahimni's contract? Consider this...

    The OP and wintermute's post is an example of relativity.

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    Default Re: Upset about Mahimni's contract? Consider this...

    Greg Stiemsma, 2 years $5m, TWolves

    One of the best value contracts in the league if you ask me, and that should have been about where Mahinmi landed.
    You can't get champagne from a garden hose.

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    Default Re: Upset about Mahimni's contract? Consider this...

    Quote Originally Posted by graphic-er View Post
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    Greg Stiemsma, 2 years $5m, TWolves

    One of the best value contracts in the league if you ask me, and that should have been about where Mahinmi landed.
    Stiemsma: 3pts, 2 rebs, 13 mpg regular season
    1pt, 2 rebs, 7.5 min postseason

    Mahinmi: 6pts, 5 rebs, 19 mpg regular season
    7pts, 4 rebs, 17 mpg postseason

    I don't think their production warrants a similar contract

    Quote Originally Posted by wintermute
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    To me anyway, I think Mahinmi's contract comes up with raised expectations. He's being paid like a core rotation player, so I'm expecting him to be able to hold down a rotation spot at least.
    Mahinmi WAS a core rotational player for the Mavs the past two years. He's improved every year he was there. I don't see why he wouldn't be able to put up similar if not increased production for the Pacers.

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    Default Re: Upset about Mahimni's contract? Consider this...

    Really, what is so bad about his contract? He is a solid young big with potential. Those don't come cheap these days.

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    Default Re: Upset about Mahimni's contract? Consider this...

    As the moment of the trade happened, I was and still thrilled we got him. Only he will disappoint now and I don't see that happening. Pacers have everything for paint presence that didn't have last year. Fantastic job FO.
    .

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    Default Re: Upset about Mahimni's contract? Consider this...

    Quote Originally Posted by Pacer Fan View Post
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    As the moment of the trade happened, I was and still thrilled we got him. Only he will disappoint now and I don't see that happening. Pacers have everything for paint presence that didn't have last year. Fantastic job FO.
    Agreed, I feel real good about our big men rotation.

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    Default Re: Upset about Mahimni's contract? Consider this...

    I didn't know people were upset about his contract.

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    Default Re: Upset about Mahimni's contract? Consider this...

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    I didn't know people were upset about his contract.
    After signing a combo guard to be our starting point for the next 5 years at double the annual cost, I'm not sure how Mahnimi's contract would generate much vitriol.
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    Default Re: Upset about Mahimni's contract? Consider this...

    He's a better defender than anyone we had last year coming off the bench at Center or PF. He's proven he can be productive in limited minutes. He also has playoff experience.

    In a lot of ways he's a poor man's Serge Ibaka.

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    Default Re: Upset about Mahimni's contract? Consider this...

    Quote Originally Posted by naptownmenace View Post
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    He's a better defender than anyone we had last year coming off the bench at Center or PF. He's proven he can be productive in limited minutes. He also has playoff experience.

    In a lot of ways he's a poor man's Serge Ibaka.
    Is he really better than Lou? I'm actually just asking because honestly I have no idea but for a backup I always thought Lou was pretty good.


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