View Poll Results: Joe Johnson or Lebron James in the last 5 minutes of a game

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  • Lebron James

    23 48.94%
  • Joe Johnson

    3 6.38%
  • Kill me now

    9 19.15%
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Thread: Last 5 minutes of a game who ya got?

  1. #1
    DIET COKE! Trader Joe's Avatar
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    Default Last 5 minutes of a game who ya got?

    It's that time of year again!

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    I have a group of player that I rather give the ball to on the clutch than Lebron and JJ is included, I take Kobe, Melo, Durant, Pierce, JJ and Wade over Lebron in the last five minutes
    Forgetting the rest of the list for a second, last 5 minutes of a close game, who would you rather have on the wing, Joe Johnson or Lebron James?

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    George Hill Apologist mattie's Avatar
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    Default Re: Last 5 minutes of a game who ya got?

    Popular opinion doesn't prove anything. But this probably does: LBJ has outperformed every other player in the NBA in the last 5 minutes of a game when the game is within 5 points. That is a fact that cannot be disputed.
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    Default Re: Last 5 minutes of a game who ya got?

    DJ/GH/Granger/West/Hibbert

    EDIT - Oh wait...you're asking about Players not on the Pacers roster.

    I'll go with Lebron. He's a total mismatch for the entire NBA.
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    Default Re: Last 5 minutes of a game who ya got?

    I cannot believe that this is even in question......

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    Default Re: Last 5 minutes of a game who ya got?

    Monta Ellis

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    Default Re: Last 5 minutes of a game who ya got?

    this is actually worse than, "Is Brandon Rush a consistent 3 point threat" thread.

    Lebron gets so much **** for not taking the last second shot, when 90% of the time, he is making the right basketball play. And in the last 5 minutes, there is no better player than LeBron to rely on. He can do it all.

    vnzla, if you really would take Joe Johnson in the last 5 minutes of the game over LeBron James, I am never going to take another word you say seriously. Even Skip Bayless would take LeBron over JJ.

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    Default Re: Last 5 minutes of a game who ya got?

    Once again TraderJoe is trying to get all the attention, I guess I'm going to open a thread anytime I disagree with somebody so the other people can make me feel better by giving me a pat on the back

    Either way here are the 2011-2012 clutch numbers: http://www.82games.com/CSORT11.HTM

    1 - Irving

    2- Melo (the one who many here think Danny is equal to )

    3- CP3

    4- Lebron

    5- Westbrook (the one that many here think is a choker)

    6- Bargnani

    7- Kobe

    8- Monta Ellis ( yes that guy)

    9- Pierce

    10- Joe Johnson



    and Danny is rated 14th, so just because somebody prefers a player over another player in crunch time doesn't mean that that player is better than the other player or is so ridiculous that somebody has to open a new thread to try to ridicule that other person, great try TJ and big fail in your part.

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    The Last Great Pacer BlueNGold's Avatar
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    Default Re: Last 5 minutes of a game who ya got?

    LeBron has become a great player down the stretch, but he had to learn that from DWade...

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    Default Re: Last 5 minutes of a game who ya got?

    Here is also a nice article that explains JJ's numbers in "clutch time"(five minutes or less with less than five points)

    http://www.peachtreehoops.com/2012/2...nson-is-clutch

    Piggybacking off of Tom Haberstroh's Twitter Timeline, we checkout NBA.com Advanced Stats to look at how clutch Joe Johnson has been so far this year.

    My uneducated guess before looking? Seems like Joe has been better because the end of games have been less forced and multiple folks getting the ball later, though it hasn't ignored Joe either. Not every possession goes into Iso-Joe, making the times that he does slightly more effective. Or does it?

    What did we find? (Hint: click that link to see the data for yourself)

    This season, so far, Joe Johnson has indeed been clutch.

    Clutch, as defined by NBA.com, is player performance in the last five minutes of games when the score margin is within five points.

    For Joe, everything in the scoring area has gone up, from traditional shooting percentage (49 percent from 43) to all advanced metrics, Joe improves in the last five minutes of games.

    His usage goes up, from 27 percent to 36 percent and his offensive rating increases also (113.8 from 101.8), without any incline in defensive rating (96.5 from 96.7), leaving his net efficiency even higher in the clutch.

    Turnovers down, as is everything that is not associated with scoring -- apparently clutch time is Joe's time with the ball as rebounding and assist rate drop as his scoring/offensive efficiency increase.

    So Joe's been clutch this season -- how does he compare to last season, a noted down year for Joe? Well, he was not as clutch as this year -- his shooting percentages all around went down and usage went up to the same level as this season, though his +/- and overall efficiency margin improved.

    Even if he is taking approximately the same amount per 36 minutes (18.8 this season to 19.2 last), maybe he is taking better shots in the clutch than last season, because he is making more (9.1 vs 6.7). Though consider also that he is making more threes this year than last, likely making everything look better.

    Looking deeper into the stats, we see that compared to last year Joe is getting more clutch minutes per "clutch game played", presumably because the Hawks are locked in more tight games late, including overtimes games. To date, Joe has played 67 clutch minutes in 12 games compared to 107 clutch minutes in 34 games last season.

    As far as location stats, Joe is actually shooting slightly fewer shots from mid-range and closer in clutch time than last season (72% last season to 66% this season), but more successful this season (52% this season to 37% last season).

    Exit Question: What do you think -- do the stats lie regarding Joe? Or is he -- gasp! -- clutch?

  13. #10
    George Hill Apologist mattie's Avatar
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    Default Re: Last 5 minutes of a game who ya got?

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
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    LeBron has become a great player down the stretch, but he had to learn that from DWade...
    Wade: "hey LBJ, play better in late games ok?"

    LBJ: "Oh yeah?? Ok! Good idea!"

    *LBJ players better*

    LBJ has put up MUCH better stats in late games in Cleveland than he has in Miami. I'd argue Wade hurt LBJ because the media pulled a narrative out of their *** that suggested Wade was better in late games than LBJ.
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    Read it and weep:

    When George Hill is above 15% usage we won 73.5% of games. Below 15% usage we won 61.9%

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    Default Re: Last 5 minutes of a game who ya got?

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    Once again TraderJoe is trying to get all the attention, I guess I'm going to open a thread anytime I disagree with somebody so the other people can make me feel better by giving me a pat on the back

    Either way here are the 2011-2012 clutch numbers: http://www.82games.com/CSORT11.HTM

    1 - Irving

    2- Melo (the one who many here think Danny is equal to )

    3- CP3

    4- Lebron

    5- Westbrook (the one that many here think is a choker)

    6- Bargnani

    7- Kobe

    8- Monta Ellis ( yes that guy)

    9- Pierce

    10- Joe Johnson



    and Danny is rated 14th, so just because somebody prefers a player over another player in crunch time doesn't mean that that player is better than the other player or is so ridiculous that somebody has to open a new thread to try to ridicule that other person, great try TJ and big fail in your part.
    why are you changing the subject? Why are you talking about Danny? This is about LeBron vs JJ. And what you just posted supports that LeBron > JJ.

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    Default Re: Last 5 minutes of a game who ya got?

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    Here is also a nice article that explains JJ's numbers in "clutch time"(five minutes or less with less than five points)

    http://www.peachtreehoops.com/2012/2...nson-is-clutch
    all this says is that JJ is clutch. Doesn't say he is better than LBJ.

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    Default Re: Last 5 minutes of a game who ya got?

    Quote Originally Posted by ilive4sports View Post
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    why are you changing the subject? Why are you talking about Danny? This is about LeBron vs JJ. And what you just posted supports that LeBron > JJ.
    But Joe Johnson is in the picture and that is significant...... ...

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    Default Re: Last 5 minutes of a game who ya got?

    Quote Originally Posted by ilive4sports View Post
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    why are you changing the subject? Why are you talking about Danny? This is about LeBron vs JJ. And what you just posted supports that LeBron > JJ.
    I said that I prefer JJ over Lebron and then everybody started to freak out like it was so ridiculous, the numbers I posted prove my point that JJ is not as far of a clutch player from Lebron as many think here.

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    Default Re: Last 5 minutes of a game who ya got?

    Quote Originally Posted by ilive4sports View Post
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    all this says is that JJ is clutch. Doesn't say he is better than LBJ.
    Apparently you didn't read the comment. He said that all of these players were close enough that the choice on who to select in the last five minutes is a personal choice of the selector. I pick LBJ over JJ but I would take Kobe over LBJ even though LBJ is rated higher.... ...

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    Default Re: Last 5 minutes of a game who ya got?

    Quote Originally Posted by ilive4sports View Post
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    all this says is that JJ is clutch. Doesn't say he is better than LBJ.
    You are late to the party, it looks to me like you don't know wtf I'm talking about, go ahead and read what I posted on the other thread that made TJ open up this thread and come back to me.

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    Default Re: Last 5 minutes of a game who ya got?

    I want Deron Williams.
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    Default Re: Last 5 minutes of a game who ya got?

    Also look at more of those stats. You have highlighted points scored only. So they shoot pretty similarly. LeBron scores more in the last 5 mins. LeBron scores more on his own in the last 5 mins. LeBron rebounds at a way higher rate in the last 5 mins. LeBron dishes way more assists in the last 5 mins. LeBron blocks way more shots in the last 5 mins. Lebron gets more steals in the last 5 mins.

    What i see is one player that is far superior on both offense and defense in the last 5 mins of the game. Lebron is that player.

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    Default Re: Last 5 minutes of a game who ya got?

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    I said that I prefer JJ over Lebron and then everybody started to freak out like it was so ridiculous, the numbers I posted prove my point that JJ is not as far of a clutch player from Lebron as many think here.
    Except JJ isn't close to LeBron. Thats why people freaked out. Its a ridiculous statement to say. You can't say something like that and not expect people to jump on it. Its a stupid thing to say. And it doesn't help your argument at all.

    You are quoted in the OP saying you would take JJ over LeBron in the clutch. I don't care what the other argument was about. Thats what we are discussing in this thread.

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    Default Re: Last 5 minutes of a game who ya got?

    Quote Originally Posted by ilive4sports View Post
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    Except JJ isn't close to LeBron. Thats why people freaked out. Its a ridiculous statement to say. You can't say something like that and not expect people to jump on it. Its a stupid thing to say. And it doesn't help your argument at all.

    You are quoted in the OP saying you would take JJ over LeBron in the clutch. I don't care what the other argument was about. Thats what we are discussing in this thread.
    Yes I said that I rather take JJ over Lebron in the last five minutes so what is the big effing deal? why the crying and whining? You prefer Danny over Melo and do you see me opening a new thread about that ridiculous thought? It's your opinion and if I disagree I tell you but I'm not going to freakout as many of you are doing at this moment.

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    The Last Great Pacer BlueNGold's Avatar
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    Default Re: Last 5 minutes of a game who ya got?

    Quote Originally Posted by mattie View Post
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    Wade: "hey LBJ, play better in late games ok?"

    LBJ: "Oh yeah?? Ok! Good idea!"

    *LBJ players better*

    LBJ has put up MUCH better stats in late games in Cleveland than he has in Miami. I'd argue Wade hurt LBJ because the media pulled a narrative out of their *** that suggested Wade was better in late games than LBJ.
    Lol. LeBron had a bad reputation for choking down the stretch before this year and even early in the playoffs people were doubting him. He played scared until Wade taught him. It was Wade, after playing terrible and arguing with his coach, who got the Heat cranked up during the Indiana series...and LeBron followed suit and started playing at a very high level...even down the stretch. Better than he ever has played and that's why they won it all.

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    Default Re: Last 5 minutes of a game who ya got?

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
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    Lol. LeBron had a bad reputation for choking down the stretch before this year and even early in the playoffs people were doubting him. He played scared until Wade taught him. It was Wade, after playing terrible and arguing with his coach, who got the Heat cranked up during the Indiana series...and LeBron followed suit and started playing at a very high level...even down the stretch. Better than he ever has played and that's why they won it all.




    This one was on the playoffs two months ago, remember the game where he choked and Lance was doing the sign?



    Last edited by vnzla81; 08-13-2012 at 07:16 PM.

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    Default Re: Last 5 minutes of a game who ya got?

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    Yes I said that I rather take JJ over Lebron in the last five minutes so what is the big effing deal? why the crying and whining? You prefer Danny over Melo and do you see me opening a new thread about that ridiculous thought? It's your opinion and if I disagree I tell you but I'm not going to freakout as many of you are doing at this moment.
    Find a quote of me saying I prefer Danny over Melo and go ahead and open the thread.

    I even went back and read the thread where this started. I don't see how it helps your point at all. All you sound like is Skip Bayless by calling him LeChoke. Thats not a good thing btw.

    This is what you always do. This is why people jump on you. You make an outlandish claim like saying JJ is better than LeBron in the clutch (and then provide stats to prove your point except they prove that LeBron is far superior...). Then you go on to twist your argument into something else and blame others for doing so. The entire thread was trying to get back to talking about clutch performances while you were dodging. This all happens often.

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  29. #24
    George Hill Apologist mattie's Avatar
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    Default Re: Last 5 minutes of a game who ya got?

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
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    Lol. LeBron had a bad reputation for choking down the stretch before this year and even early in the playoffs people were doubting him. He played scared until Wade taught him. It was Wade, after playing terrible and arguing with his coach, who got the Heat cranked up during the Indiana series...and LeBron followed suit and started playing at a very high level...even down the stretch. Better than he ever has played and that's why they won it all.
    Yes. I know what ESPN told you. I also know they were wrong. and I can prove it. Go to 82games.com and check everyone season prior to 10-11. James had by far the best performance out of everyone every year and it wasn't even close.

    Scared? LBJ didn't play scared when he scored 29 points straight against Detroit. The only time LBJ ever really played bad was the 10-11 Finals. An anomaly. That same playoffs the series prior he dominated the leagues MVP by himself.

    The whole "LBJ isn't clutch" was always an absurd ridiculous narrative that had absolutely no evidence in support of it.
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    Read it and weep:

    When George Hill is above 15% usage we won 73.5% of games. Below 15% usage we won 61.9%

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  31. #25
    George Hill Apologist mattie's Avatar
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    Default Re: Last 5 minutes of a game who ya got?

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    This one was on the playoffs two months ago, remember the game where he choked and Lance was doing the sign?



    Haha did you even watch that game? LBJ was a beast late in that game. You should probably rewatch it.
    Find me on the internets @mattiecolin

    Read it and weep:

    When George Hill is above 15% usage we won 73.5% of games. Below 15% usage we won 61.9%

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