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Thread: Should the Pacers make another move?

  1. #151

    Default Re: Should the Pacers make another move?

    Quote Originally Posted by OlBlu View Post
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    I don't have any problem with it. Homers are homers and they don't pay attention to what other teams are doing or where their own team is weak. I am a fan, not a homer. I can see where the Pacers need work and I am watching several teams add significant starters who will move ahead of them. This isn't last year. The East is significantly stronger and the Pacers remained about the same, perhaps a little better on the bench. That translates into less wins and a lower seed in my view. But, it is just my view and I am glad their are avid fans who don't do any thinking at all, they just watch the games. There is nothing wrong with either one of us in that regard..... ...
    You know you are a doubter when you think your own team will finish behind teams that Vegas Odds puts your team ahead of.

    To Win East:
    Heat (-175)
    Bulls (+450)
    Celtics (+1000)
    Pacers (+1200)
    Knicks, Sixers, Nets (+1500)

    Just saying. Atleast have a little faith and put your team where the actual experts have us.

  2. #152
    It is ka Thankee sai Major Cold's Avatar
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    Default Re: Should the Pacers make another move?

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    Lebron chocked on many games last year, winning the Championship has made people forget about it or look the other way, yes he is less Lechoke but I don't think he is out of the woods yet, remember the game of the "good job good effort kidd'?
    No. It is clear that Lebron has gotten better this year. He took over games in the finals. And no I don't think he is better than Jordan. But this is clearly not the same Lebron as last year. And game 4 against us was the coming out party. I am not a fan of him, because of his antics. But he has grown up a lot. And winning the gold and the championship is prove. It isn't a mask.

    Will he be a legend on Jordan's level? If you asked me last year I would say no. But this year he grew up. Developed a nice step back mid-range jumper. Was able to take two dribbles on the open three and hit the corner spot up shooter. Last year he would have taken the open three.

    Lebron is blossoming. He was always had the skill. Now he has the maturation.

  3. #153
    George Hill Apologist mattie's Avatar
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    Default Re: Should the Pacers make another move?

    Back to the thread:

    Pacers trade two future first rounds and West for Josh Smith.

    The result:

    8 Championships.

    Do it Kevin!
    Find me on the internets @mattiecolin

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  5. #154
    Member Miller_time04's Avatar
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    Default Re: Should the Pacers make another move?

    Quote Originally Posted by mattie View Post
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    Back to the thread:

    Pacers trade two future first rounds and West for Josh Smith.

    The result:

    8 Championships.

    Do it Kevin!
    No.

  6. #155
    future dragon trainer Heisenberg's Avatar
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    Default Re: Should the Pacers make another move?

    Quote Originally Posted by mattie View Post
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    Back to the thread:

    Pacers trade two future first rounds and West for Josh Smith.

    The result:

    8 Championships.

    Do it Kevin!
    Bit steep but I could be talked into it. If Smith weren't a FA next summer. Guess we would inherit his Bird rights though. Not sure ATL'd be all that interested though.

  7. #156
    George Hill Apologist mattie's Avatar
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    Default Re: Should the Pacers make another move?

    Quote Originally Posted by Heisenberg View Post
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    Bit steep but I could be talked into it. If Smith weren't a FA next summer. Guess we would inherit his Bird rights though. Not sure ATL'd be all that interested though.
    Obviously I have no idea at all, but I was thinking they might go for it because they're sort of in rebuilding mode. So they may not even resign Josh Smith. So I figure since both West and Smith are both expiring, than ATL nets because I'm sure loading up on draft picks might be a real attractive goal for them.

    I might seem crazy for us to just donate draft picks like that, but having Josh Smiths size and athleticism and defensive prowess would probably make the Pacers be able to truly compete with anyone. 4 long athletic shot blockers, and great rebounding? Sounds good on paper.

    I have no idea what ATL's plans are but loading up on picks seems like a good one.

    I also think the Pacers wouldn't have to worry to much about Smith. playing on at least an E/C Finals team would probably be enough to convince him to resign.
    Find me on the internets @mattiecolin

  8. #157
    future dragon trainer Heisenberg's Avatar
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    Default Re: Should the Pacers make another move?

    If Atlanta wants to dump players then give up the West + the farm for Horford. It'd never happen, but it was fun dreaming about a Horford/Hibbert frontline before they signed him to that ridiculously team friendly extension.

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  10. #158
    George Hill Apologist mattie's Avatar
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    Default Re: Should the Pacers make another move?

    They ought to give up one of them. I think both Horford and Smith's best position are at the 4. It's probably one reason why ATL never really peaked as a team.
    Find me on the internets @mattiecolin

  11. #159

    Default Re: Should the Pacers make another move?

    I'm hoping the Hawks will finally realize it this season and keep Josh Smith to make a nice attempt to lure Howard.

  12. #160
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    Default Re: Should the Pacers make another move?

    Get scalabrine we need a comedic 15th man on the team

  13. #161
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    Default Re: Should the Pacers make another move?

    Quote Originally Posted by Heisenberg View Post
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    If Atlanta wants to dump players then give up the West + the farm for Horford. It'd never happen, but it was fun dreaming about a Horford/Hibbert frontline before they signed him to that ridiculously team friendly extension.
    Man, I'd love that. I'd trade West, 2 future unprotected firsts, Augustin for Horford + Teague (i'm not sure how high Atlanta really is on Teague).

    Not sure how that would work for the Pacers cap. I guess OJ might not get signed then.
    Lance + Starting SG = Awesome

    Now really free Lance!

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    Running with the Big Boys BillS's Avatar
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    Default Re: Should the Pacers make another move?

    Quote Originally Posted by OlBlu View Post
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    Disagreeing with some of the posters here is frowned upon and some of them are insulted when someone does disagree.
    The problem is that you imply that anyone who disagrees with you only does so because they are a homer and don't pay any attention to anyone else in the NBA like wise people such as yourself would do.

    There's a long range between claiming every player on the Pacers is better than LBJ and defending the idea that the Pacers have a legitimate shot at 2nd in the East this year. The former is ridiculous, the latter is not completely out of line, and just being able to point out a counter-argument doesn't prove anyone who fails to accept that argument is blindly mislead.

    We seem to have two extremes - people who disagree on the side of the Pacers are blind homers while people who disagree on the side against the Pacers are trolls. Neither of these is true, and everyone needs to just back off and remember why we are here.
    BillS

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  16. #163
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    Default Re: Should the Pacers make another move?

    Quote Originally Posted by BillS View Post
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    The problem is that you imply that anyone who disagrees with you only does so because they are a homer and don't pay any attention to anyone else in the NBA like wise people such as yourself would do.

    There's a long range between claiming every player on the Pacers is better than LBJ and defending the idea that the Pacers have a legitimate shot at 2nd in the East this year. The former is ridiculous, the latter is not completely out of line, and just being able to point out a counter-argument doesn't prove anyone who fails to accept that argument is blindly mislead.

    We seem to have two extremes - people who disagree on the side of the Pacers are blind homers while people who disagree on the side against the Pacers are trolls. Neither of these is true, and everyone needs to just back off and remember why we are here.
    Thank you and that was very well put. I am sure that I am too hard on the folks that try to tell me the Pacers have the best starting five in all of the NBA and that the Pacers are a better team than the Boston Celtics. I want to see the Pacers do well and win. I think they have a hard hill to climb being a small market team trying to do it without any stars. I agree with management that they "over performed" last year and I doubt that adding some new bench pieces who do look to be better than what we had but not leaps and bounds better will make us "over perform" again this year. I am not negative about the Pacers. I predicted 48-34 and that is very good for this team. I don't think that everyone that disagrees with me is a complete homer but I do think the ones that scream "troll" probably are. I disagree with you all of the time but I don't think you are a homer and you see the strengths and the weaknesses of the team and their opponents. I certainly don't expect everyone to agree with me. I have learned a lot from people who disagree with me but I can't say that I have learned much from the people who do agree with me. Those differences are what we come here to discuss. Some can't take anyone disagreeing with them about anything. I'm not one of those folks...... ...

  17. #164
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    Default Re: Should the Pacers make another move?

    well, we went back to the thread topic for a few posts...
    Last edited by adamscb; 08-14-2012 at 11:12 AM.

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  19. #165
    It is ka Thankee sai Major Cold's Avatar
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    Default Re: Should the Pacers make another move?

    Quote Originally Posted by OlBlu View Post
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    Thank you and that was very well put. I am sure that I am too hard on the folks that try to tell me the Pacers have the best starting five in all of the NBA and that the Pacers are a better team than the Boston Celtics. I want to see the Pacers do well and win. I think they have a hard hill to climb being a small market team trying to do it without any stars. I agree with management that they "over performed" last year and I doubt that adding some new bench pieces who do look to be better than what we had but not leaps and bounds better will make us "over perform" again this year. I am not negative about the Pacers. I predicted 48-34 and that is very good for this team. I don't think that everyone that disagrees with me is a complete homer but I do think the ones that scream "troll" probably are. I disagree with you all of the time but I don't think you are a homer and you see the strengths and the weaknesses of the team and their opponents. I certainly don't expect everyone to agree with me. I have learned a lot from people who disagree with me but I can't say that I have learned much from the people who do agree with me. Those differences are what we come here to discuss. Some can't take anyone disagreeing with them about anything. I'm not one of those folks...... ...

    see what happens when you add a well thought out post. You make sense troll.....Just kidding.

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  21. #166
    Professional Beachcomber mildlysane's Avatar
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    Default Re: Should the Pacers make another move?

    I guess ignore only works if no one quotes those on ignore. If someone claims I do drugs, am a blind homer, am ignorant of the NBA, am too young to understand the NBA, all the while ALWAYS taking a negative position on the team that this board is named after and that MOST posters are actually fans of, this isn't trolling? I guess I am just stupid then. I suppose my 30+ years of watching the NBA is just irrevelant and therefore my defense of the team that I grew up watching and am actually optimistic about is out of bounds and overbearing. I suppose that always putting down this team and always discounting every single move that they do, including discounting the 5th best record in the league, the coach who finished 2nd in Coach of the year, and the starting 5 who, statistically was one of the best in the regular season and playoffs, is the epitome of wise and fair judgment. Then fine, I will refrain from posting here and will find another board to follow the Pacers on. Enjoy arguing! This is the last time I am going to address this....I really didn't even want to type this, as I was over it and had him ignore.

  22. #167
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    Default Re: Should the Pacers make another move?

    Quote Originally Posted by Major Cold View Post
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    see what happens when you add a well thought out post. You make sense troll.....Just kidding.
    Hey!!...... ...

  23. #168
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    Default Re: Should the Pacers make another move?

    Quote Originally Posted by mildlysane View Post
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    I guess ignore only works if no one quotes those on ignore. If someone claims I do drugs, am a blind homer, am ignorant of the NBA, am too young to understand the NBA, all the while ALWAYS taking a negative position on the team that this board is named after and that MOST posters are actually fans of, this isn't trolling? I guess I am just stupid then. I suppose my 30+ years of watching the NBA is just irrevelant and therefore my defense of the team that I grew up watching and am actually optimistic about is out of bounds and overbearing. I suppose that always putting down this team and always discounting every single move that they do, including discounting the 5th best record in the league, the coach who finished 2nd in Coach of the year, and the starting 5 who, statistically was one of the best in the regular season and playoffs, is the epitome of wise and fair judgment. Then fine, I will refrain from posting here and will find another board to follow the Pacers on. Enjoy arguing! This is the last time I am going to address this....I really didn't even want to type this, as I was over it and had him ignore.
    I would not want you to leave. However, bear in mind that your posts which I view as way overly optimistic are as offensive to me as mine are to you. If you don't want an argument from someone you disagree with then good luck finding any forum where you will be able to do that....... ...

  24. #169
    Member rabid's Avatar
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    Default Re: Should the Pacers make another move?

    Quote Originally Posted by mildlysane View Post
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    That is BS...He has implied that I smoke drugs, am too young to comprehend the NBA , am a blind homer, and am ignorant of the NBA. THAT is trolling. Guess I have to ignore you too. Same d*** person, geeze.
    Ignoring OlBlu and vnzla makes it a whole new forum. I tried and was very patient in talking to both, it was only after many months, and after being personally insulted by both of them on separate occasions that I finally put them on my ignore list. I don't like to do that especially when these guys post on the forum so often... but it's the best decision I ever made here.

    Debating is great. Intentionally stirring the pot over and over again without much in the way of real facts to support your position, then implying that people who disagree with you are homers or otherwise ignorant, then repeating this over and over again in thread after thread, is just not something I'm interested in reading, and I don't miss it at all.

    Last edited by rabid; 08-14-2012 at 01:12 PM.

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  26. #170
    Running with the Big Boys BillS's Avatar
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    Default Re: Should the Pacers make another move?

    Quote Originally Posted by rabidpacersfan View Post
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    Ignoring OlBlu and vnzla makes it a whole new forum. 90 percent of the trolling instantly goes away, it's like 2005 again!

    EDIT: And by trolling I mean the personal attacks and intentional ******-talking, not just having a difference of opinion.
    That really isn't the definition of trolling. Trolling is specifically dropping bombs to get a rise out of people without being at all interested in the specifics of the argument. Name-calling and trash talking isn't particularly appropriate - and people have been called out for it both privately and publicly - but if the arguments have some kind of backing to them then they aren't just being thrown out to cause a s**tstorm.

    Just like being a homer in the derogatory sense isn't simply defending one's team, it is making outlandish statements simply BECAUSE it is one's team. Giving one's own team the benefit of the doubt, while a form of homerism, should not imply some sort of deficient ability to perceive or study the game.

    Both of these words get used far too often in terms of defining the real problem. They become just another name to call someone in lieu of making a cogent argument or using ignore.
    BillS

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  28. #171
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    Default Re: Should the Pacers make another move?

    [QUOTE=rabidpacersfan;1493397][COLOR=#333333]Ignoring OlBlu and vnzla makes it a whole new forum. I tried and was very patient in talking to both, it was only after many months, and after being personally insulted by both of them on separate occasions that I finally put them on my ignore list. I don't like to do that especially when these guys post on the forum so often... but it's the best decision I ever made here.

    Debating is great. Intentionally stirring the pot over and over again without much in the way of real facts to support your position, then implying that people who disagree with you are homers or otherwise ignorant, then repeating this over and over again in thread after thread, is just not something I'm interested in reading, and I don't miss it at all.

    THIS ADDS NOTHING TO THE DISCUSSION, IF YOU WANT TO DEBATE HIM FINE BUT LET'S NOT THROW UP PHOTO'S INSULTING HIM EITHER

  29. #172
    Member Ace E.Anderson's Avatar
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    Default Re: Should the Pacers make another move?

    Quote Originally Posted by rabidpacersfan View Post
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    Ignoring OlBlu and vnzla makes it a whole new forum. 90 percent of the trolling instantly goes away, it's like 2005 again!

    EDIT: And by trolling I mean the personal attacks and intentional ******-talking, not just having a difference of opinion.
    Part of what makes this such a good forum is the discrepancy in opinions. I'd say 90% of the posters on this site have good, valid basketball knowledge. And that includes OlBlu and vnzla. Yes they're opinions often times (more like every time) are extremely negative and against the grain, but it's easy to disparage an argument with simple facts and stats. But as fans, we each are entitled to our opinion. Part of what makes all of this so fun is arguing a point back and forth that shouldn't really matter in the first place! Lol who cares if WE think the Pacers should make a move? Who cares if we think we're better than the Celtics. Who cares if Danny Granger is a spot 3pt shooter, or a 2nd tier scorer

    At the end of the day, this is supposed to be FUN!! And honestly there really is NO right answer to most of the things we discuss, no matter how black and white it may seem.

    As for the personal attacks, I've never had one thrown my way. I've gone back and forth with both posters, as well as other posters, on a variety of topics. Maybe I'm just fortunate. But also, maybe we need to not be quite as sensitive to the things they say, and worry about the topics that come up in the forum. Sticks and stones gentlemen, sticks and stones.

    Just my two cents...

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  31. #173
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    Default Re: Should the Pacers make another move?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ace E.Anderson View Post
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    Part of what makes this such a good forum is the discrepancy in opinions. I'd say 90% of the posters on this site have good, valid basketball knowledge. And that includes OlBlu and vnzla. Yes they're opinions often times (more like every time) are extremely negative and against the grain, but it's easy to disparage an argument with simple facts and stats. But as fans, we each are entitled to our opinion. Part of what makes all of this so fun is arguing a point back and forth that shouldn't really matter in the first place! Lol who cares if WE think the Pacers should make a move? Who cares if we think we're better than the Celtics. Who cares if Danny Granger is a spot 3pt shooter, or a 2nd tier scorer

    At the end of the day, this is supposed to be FUN!! And honestly there really is NO right answer to most of the things we discuss, no matter how black and white it may seem.

    As for the personal attacks, I've never had one thrown my way. I've gone back and forth with both posters, as well as other posters, on a variety of topics. Maybe I'm just fortunate. But also, maybe we need to not be quite as sensitive to the things they say, and worry about the topics that come up in the forum. Sticks and stones gentlemen, sticks and stones.

    Just my two cents...

    Hey!! ... and a good two cents it was......

  32. #174
    George Hill Apologist mattie's Avatar
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    Default Re: Should the Pacers make another move?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sparhawk View Post
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    Man, I'd love that. I'd trade West, 2 future unprotected firsts, Augustin for Horford + Teague (i'm not sure how high Atlanta really is on Teague).

    Not sure how that would work for the Pacers cap. I guess OJ might not get signed then.
    They like Teague.

    I really like Horford and wouldn't be opposed to a West for Horford trade at all, but I'd much rather have Smith. Smith's a far superior defender and shot blocker. I absolutely love defense and would go for that in a heartbeat.
    Find me on the internets @mattiecolin

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  34. #175
    NaptownSeth is all feel Naptown_Seth's Avatar
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    Default Re: Should the Pacers make another move?

    Quote Originally Posted by BillS View Post
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    That really isn't the definition of trolling. Trolling is specifically dropping bombs to get a rise out of people without being at all interested in the specifics of the argument. Name-calling and trash talking isn't particularly appropriate - and people have been called out for it both privately and publicly - but if the arguments have some kind of backing to them then they aren't just being thrown out to cause a s**tstorm.

    Just like being a homer in the derogatory sense isn't simply defending one's team, it is making outlandish statements simply BECAUSE it is one's team. Giving one's own team the benefit of the doubt, while a form of homerism, should not imply some sort of deficient ability to perceive or study the game.

    Both of these words get used far too often in terms of defining the real problem. They become just another name to call someone in lieu of making a cogent argument or using ignore.
    Well said Bill.

    Pro or Con "trolling" can be done. It's simply taking an irrational stand in a debate, typically a hot button topic, with no real intention of making a convincing case that the stand is rational. After all, if you'd thought it out to a rational point then you would have given up the point as a bit irrational before even posting it.


    I argue like crazy, but I can be convinced and have happily admitted to being convinced or even wrong on many occasions. I come here for perspective which means I only want to hear well thought out points, regardless of whether I agree with them at that point or not.

    But I have no use for topic trolling, it derails and ruins an otherwise interesting discussion.

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