Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.
BTW: Knicks didn't blink on Lin because of the tax. He was worth more than what they would have had to pay. They let him go because they got insulted that Lin went and got the most money he could.
Last edited by Sookie; 08-14-2012 at 11:24 AM.
this article points out that the Lakers were claiming to be so broke during the lockout that they were laying off video coordinators. and now they are getting ready to pay a $90 million / year tax.
the article suggests that they will have to cut salary soon therefore. my take is they were lying (with a lot of other teams) during the lockout about how broke they were. we'll see how their salary situation shakes out in the next few i guess.
"Nobody wants to play against Tyler Hansbrough NO BODY!" ~ Frank Vogel
"And David put his hand in the bag and took out a stone and slung it. And it struck the Philistine on the head and he fell to the ground. Amen. "
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"I had to take her down like Chris Brown."
SI article on Dwight negotiations. Apparently, Houston was lowballing and the Afflalo deal may indeed be the best.
They still got robbed.The offerings from Houston, sources said, weren't as plentiful as previously believed either. In both the two-team talks with Houston and three-team discussions that involved the Lakers and would have sent center Andrew Bynum to the Rockets, sources said Houston was offering only two first-round picks. From Houston's perspective, however, the comparative value of the picks far outweighed anything available to the Magic elsewhere and it had been made clear that a third pick could be added "if it got the deal done."
One of the picks, which would have come via Toronto as part of Houston's recent trade of point guard Kyle Lowry, has protections that make it likely to land in the lottery. The other being offered, by way of Dallas, had an outside chance at becoming completely unprotected in 2018 if the Mavericks didn't finish the regular season in the league's top 10 in the five years prior.
Many assumed that the Rockets' three first-round picks from this year's draft -- guard Jeremy Lamb and forwards Royce White and Terrence Jones -- would be made available in a Howard deal. But sources close to the Magic said Lamb was the only such prospect offered, and that he was off the table by the time the talks involved the Lakers and Lamb had impressed at the Las Vegas summer league in July (he averaged 20 points in five games). Meanwhile, unwanted players like Gary Forbes, Jon Brockman and Marcus Morris were made available (along with shooting guard Kevin Martin, whose expiring $12.9 million contract was a must to make the money work).
On the Rockets' side, meanwhile, sources said the message had been sent that the Magic could have one or possibly two prospects from a pool that included Morris, Patrick Patterson, Lamb, Jones, White and Donatas Motiejunas. Houston offered significant salary-cap relief, but, as had been the case on the topic of young players, never in the form that the Magic wanted.
"I enjoyed working with Rob on a potential deal," Rockets general manager Daryl Morey told SI.com via text message. "He went with what was best for Orlando and over time people will see that he has made a good decision. He has a plan for Orlando and he has proved his ability to execute a plan to make franchises great from his time in San Antonio and Oklahoma City."
Hennigan wouldn't discuss the negotiations in any detail but made it clear he is content.
"What's available in theory and what's available in reality aren't necessarily the same," he said. "At the end of the day, we're happy with the net result of the trade considering the circumstances."
But if this is true, it at least makes sense why Houston couldn't get it done.
2 picks (one non lottery, one probably early teens), cap savings and a pile of crap
4 non-lottery picks, two decent prospects and Afflalo.
The second one is miles better. It's not like Orlando needs to cut salary at this stage of rebuilding; they need to stockpile young assets and picks, like Cleveland.
From the article, it sounds that Houston was willing to go up to 3 picks (TOR pick, DAL pick, and presumably their own) + 2 prospects + cap savings
3 non-lottery picks (why do you say 4?), 2 prospects + Afflalo + bad contract (Harrington, McBob)
(I'm calling McBob a bad contract because ORL is apparently going to cut him).
To me, the TOR pick by itself outweighs all the guaranteed non-lotto picks that ORL actually got. The key piece for the Magic appears to be Afflalo, and while he's a nice player and all, I think I'd rather take my chances in the lotto if I were ORL. It's true that ORL doesn't need cap space now, but cap space is a valuable trade commodity that can easily be turned into extra picks, as the Cavs have shown. So that's another negative for me.
No, what I think is that ORL decided to be competitive rather than bottoming out as commonly believed. With Nelson, Big Baby, and now Afflalo, I'd say they could easily win games in the 30s. Taking the Houston deal would have meant a true rebuild, and possibly their owner wasn't up for that with a new arena to fill.
EDIT: I agree though that ORL is still getting robbed. They really should have traded Dwight last year, when Brooklyn (the most desperate of the Dwight suitors by far) still had the assets to make a far better offer. In retrospect, getting Dwight to extend another year was a horrible, horrible move for the Magic.
Last edited by wintermute; 08-16-2012 at 05:11 AM.
you are right, i thought they got 4 in the Lakers deal for some reason.
re the main point, unless i'm reading it wrong, the article describes two different reports. The one you are talking about -- with prospects -- comes from sources close to Houston.
The other one -- only Lamb at first; then he's off the table too -- comes from Orlando sources.
Obviously one of these reports is wrong. A lot of PR going on at the moment. Which one, who knows.
The Houston version has been discussed a number of times. I agree that it's fairly solid -- compared to the end deal.
I posted it because I hadn't heard the Orlando version of the story before. That's a far worse deal than the one you are talking about.
Btw, regardless of which of these reports is true... Houston wasn't going to offer a ton of "cap" as such. They don't have much.
It was basically Martin's expiring, partially guaranteed contracts and a bunch of other expirings, just as McBob.
So in terms of turning it into extra picks 'like the Cavs', their situation isn't very different in either case.
They can still look for Baron Davis type "shorter contracts for longer contracts" deals, which would've been their option with the Houston trade too.
And next summer, they'll still be able to have max salary room and fish for these "picks for cap" deals. With the Houston deal, they simply would've had ~11 extra mil cap next summer, bringing the total up to 25-30 mil. But it's rather unrealistic you are going to need that much for "Cavs deals" in 2013 alone.
And after that, they have another wave of cap coming.
From my point of view, getting rid of Turkoglu etc for expirings would've been nice a year ago, when they still had Dwight and those deals were longer. Now, it's rather pointless because it doesn't change their situation in a realistically meaningful way.
Also, in a sense, if the Orlando report is accurate..... isn't getting more prospects and taking on Al Harrington a "Cavs deal"?
The end result is the same. They pass on short term cap, spend money and get more prospects. Only unlike the Cavs with Baron Davis, the Magic have an option to cut Harrington and lower the cap hit.
Last edited by ballism; 08-16-2012 at 07:44 AM.
I see absolutely nothing wrong with how Lin conducted himself during free agency. In fact, I think his professionalism was extremely commendable. Knicks FO is just a bunch of sissies.
If any Pacer player worth anything more than 5 million a year did what Lin did, this place would be up in arms and ready to declare war against the player and his new team. You don't get that kind of reaction from fans with "extremely commendable professionalism".
I want to be clear, I'm on Lin's side. I was just saying why the Knicks didn't sign him.
If the Pacers let go of a player who rejuvinated the fan base, made the team more exciting, actually helped win games, and would have more than made up for his contract two months into the season, I'd be more upset with the Pacers rather than the player who took the good deal.