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Thread: Granger: Pacers 2nd best in East

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    Default Granger: Pacers 2nd best in East

    Granger: Pacers 2nd best in East

    7:34AM ET
    Danny Granger | Pacers





    The Miami Heat knocked the Indiana Pacers out of the 2012 playoffs in the second round and Danny Granger is ready to start the new season.
    "I'm over it. It happens. They were the better team. I think they deserved to win the championship," Granger tells The Indianapolis Star. That's the way it goes. We have to get better."
    Even though the Boston Celtics, Brooklyn Nets and New York Knicks have improved, Granger believes the Pacers are right behind the Heat in the East.
    "It's going to be tough," Granger said. "Brooklyn, they are going to be a threat. Obviously Miami is going to be there, but I think we still view ourselves as a top-2 team in the East."
    The Chicago Bulls could be a threat in the 2013 playoffs if Derrick Rose is ably to play in the postseason.
    -- Nick Borges



    There are two types of quarterbacks in the league: Those whom over time, the league figures out ... and those who figure out the league.

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    Default Re: Granger: Pacers 2nd best in East

    I created a post on how the Pacers can reach 2nd in the East. I think it's very doable. Certainly helps that Rose is out.

    Here are my keys to a successful season (no particular order):
    1. PGs growth on the offensive and defensive end. He can be a very good all round player. Really needs to step up this season. He can get steals, but he still loses his man constantly and really struggles with picks/screens. PG needs to prove he can be a starting shooting guard. To do that he needs to be aggressive and score.
    More on PG
    -Only Evan Turner averaged more rebounds/game for a shooting guard
    -Only Iman Shumpert and Tony Allen averaged more steals per game than PG
    -Oh, and he was top 5 in blocks and top 15 in assists for qualified shooting guards
    2. Lance becoming the player we all know he can be. If he can cut down the turnovers and knock down mid range shots while dishing out sick passes, then hes gonna be the backup sg for years to come. Would love to see him subbed as a point against other teams that have slower points. Also, needs to show that hell play hard at the defensive end too. We all saw how he played in Summer League. If he wants a larger role, he has to play both ends.
    3. Hibbs needs to show hes earned $14M. No more Mr. Inconsistency. Has to bring it every night.
    4. West playing like he did toward the end of the season and into the playoffs.
    5. Granger finding and keeping his shot. This guy cant hover around 40% if hes going to be our leading scorer.
    6. Hill needs to prove that the Pacers chose right. They gave up a first rounder (a controllable player), and traded away DC. Dude averaged 15 and 5 as a starter. Id like to see him continue to put up those type of numbers while playing strong D. If Hill and PG play up to their potential on defense, they could be the best defensive back-court in the league.
    7. How guys need to mesh with the team. Would love to hear that the new guys are working out/playing with the current guys to build some rapport.
    8. Green needs to continue to play like he did with the Nets. Backup SF shooting 39% from 3 while shooting close to 50% overall, yes, please! Dude was out of the league not to long ago. Needs to keep that fire burning and show that he can actually get better.
    9. Ian is already better than Lou. Like the signing. $4M for a backup C is pretty cheap. Just want this guy to rebound and play good defense.
    10. I have no love for Hans, but if he plays more like 2011, then all the better! (Secretly hope that Plumlee works his way to playing backup PF and Hans is traded for a pick before the trade deadline).
    11. Augustin needs to show that once hes not the main attraction, letting his game come to him will allow him to play much better. Also, actually getting a pass to our bigs would be a welcome sight.
    12. Vogel. Vogel is key. This is his first season to put his personal style on the offense and defense. Love that he preaches defense, but I want to see a more fluid offense. Guys just stand around. Less ISO, more movement.
    13. And dear God, can the Pacers bring someone in to show the players how to defend pick n rolls/screens, and how to effectively execute them??

    Granted not everything will happen as you would like it to. But if this Pacers team plays like they did last season while having a bench that can actually score, they very well could have the 2nd best record in the east. I definitely think this is very possible.

    Since I know not everything on my list will happen, I still think the Pacers will finish between the 2nd best record and 4th best record in the East. Other teams did improve, but the Pacers just needed to improve that bench while getting bigger in the post, and they totally did.

    I would still like the Pacers to bring in one more veteran for the bench.

    -Tracy McGrady is tops on my list. He'd be a solid fall back in case Lance gets off to a slow start. McGrady would provide veteran leadership and could help teach PG and Lance how to be better SGs.

    -Kenyon Martin is #2 on my list. Again, another solid veteran to have on the bench and in case Hans continues to struggle, he'd be a great guy to have come in and cause some havoc. At this point in his career, I doubt his baggage will be much of an issue.

    -Andray Blatche is my wild card. I know the Pacers won't bring him in, but here's why they should. Just like Gerald Green, sometimes you don't know what you have until it's gone. He's on the verge of never being a factor in the NBA. Pacers have a solid group of guys that can really knock some sense into him, and let's not forget that the Pacers have Clark Kellogg, who has done wonders with Lance. Just loads of talent in this guy, and the Pacers have the right players/personnel to help him to play the right way. Plus, it'd keep him off the Spurs/Heat who are rumored to be looking at him.
    Lance + Starting SG = Awesome

    Now really free Lance!

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    Default Re: Granger: Pacers 2nd best in East

    I don't share his opinion, but it's good that our guys have confidence
    Quote Originally Posted by Piston Prince
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    Bobcat fans telling us to cheer up = epic fail season
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    Default Re: Granger: Pacers 2nd best in East

    I finally got to read the "blog" at the Star (if "blog" is in the URL then it is filtered at my work.) Interesting comments.

    What I really wanted to say was, after I scanned the FB reader comments at the bottom, I felt my IQ falling rapidly. Came back to PD for some hope that -- even though there isn't much to talk about in the summer -- PD is still using its brains even in the offseason.
    Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
    Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
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    Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
    And life itself, rushing over me
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    Default Re: Granger: Pacers 2nd best in East

    Boston and Indiana are neck and neck for the second best team.
    David "And One" West

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    Default Re: Granger: Pacers 2nd best in East

    Quote Originally Posted by Pacergeek View Post
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    Boston and Indiana are neck and neck for the second best team.
    I actually think the C's are going to easily be the 2nd best team in the East. They are CRAZY deep (KG, Bass, PP, Lee, Rondo, Terry, Bradley, Green, Fab, Sullinger) with a GREAT coach in Doc Rivers. They've got size, they've got shooting, they've got a top 15 player in Rondo...the more I think about the C's, I think they could give MIA a run for their money.

    I think the pacers are looking at the 3 seed right now with the Nets (top heavy) Knicks (perennial underachievers) and Bulls (great coaching) not too far behind.

    I LOVE that the players and coaches believe they're a great team however. Confidence goes a long long way in this league.

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    Default Re: Granger: Pacers 2nd best in East

    Quote Originally Posted by Ace E.Anderson View Post
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    I actually think the C's are going to easily be the 2nd best team in the East. They are CRAZY deep (KG, Bass, PP, Lee, Rondo, Terry, Bradley, Green, Fab, Sullinger) with a GREAT coach in Doc Rivers. They've got size, they've got shooting, they've got a top 15 player in Rondo...the more I think about the C's, I think they could give MIA a run for their money.

    I think the pacers are looking at the 3 seed right now with the Nets (top heavy) Knicks (perennial underachievers) and Bulls (great coaching) not too far behind.

    I LOVE that the players and coaches believe they're a great team however. Confidence goes a long long way in this league.
    On paper, Boston is the better team. The Celtics just tend to mail it in during the regular season
    David "And One" West

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    Default Re: Granger: Pacers 2nd best in East

    Quote Originally Posted by Pacergeek View Post
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    On paper, Boston is the better team. The Celtics just tend to mail it in during the regular season
    I think on paper the Celts look good, and perhaps have some nice depth.

    They have some health concerns on that team with Green and Bradley. They've also injected a lot of new players, so it's gonna take time for those guys to mesh. Pacers have their returning starting five and an improved bench.

    It can certainly go either way, but the Pacers definitely have a shot at the 2nd best record in the East.
    Lance + Starting SG = Awesome

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    Default Re: Granger: Pacers 2nd best in East

    Doc Rivers is a great coach? That's news to me. If Doc has a great roster, he wins. If Doc has a lousy roster, he loses. If Doc has an average roster, his team plays about 0.500.

    I think Doc was a great announcer, - very articulate, knows the game, sees the court, knows the people, hasn't been tuned out in Boston, but none of those things translate to "great" coach.

    He's a good coach.
    Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
    Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
    Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
    Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
    And life itself, rushing over me
    Life itself, the wind in black elms,
    Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you


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    Default Re: Granger: Pacers 2nd best in East

    Quote Originally Posted by ChicagoJ View Post
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    Doc Rivers is a great coach? That's news to me. If Doc has a great roster, he wins. If Doc has a lousy roster, he loses. If Doc has an average roster, his team plays about 0.500.

    I think Doc was a great announcer, - very articulate, knows the game, sees the court, knows the people, hasn't been tuned out in Boston, but none of those things translate to "great" coach.

    He's a good coach.
    I think Doc is generally considered to be a great coach. He gets a lot out of his players. Vogel is a good coach. I think most of the NBA is very high on Doc as a coach. Check the salaries and you will see who is great and who is good......

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    Default Re: Granger: Pacers 2nd best in East

    I see us fighting for 3rd place, a toss up between 2, 3 and 4 tho.

    Miami in first

    Then a battle between us, Brooklyn and Boston. Boston will probably beat us out, I'm undecided if Brooklyn will or not. It really depends on the maturation of our players.

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    Default Re: Granger: Pacers 2nd best in East

    I love the confidence but I think #2 is a little to high for us.

    The East has gotten a lot better over the past few years. Nets are going to be good next season - they finally got some talent around DWill.
    "So, which one of you guys is going to come in second?" - Larry Bird before the 3 point contest. He won.



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    Default Re: Granger: Pacers 2nd best in East

    Doc Rivers (Celtics): $7 million
    Mike D’Antoni (Knicks-resigned): $6 million

    Gregg Popovich (Spurs): $6 million

    Nate McMillan (Trail Blazers): $5.5 million
    Rick Adelman (Timberwolves): $5 million
    Flip Saunders (Wizards-fired): $4.8 million
    Rick Carlisle (Mavericks): $4.5 million
    Mike Brown (Lakers): $4.5 million
    Stan Van Gundy (Magic): $4.5 million
    Scott Skiles (Bucks): $4.5 million

    I know an up-and-coming coaching star when I see one and Vogel is one. Since Popp and Carlisle are likely never coming here, I'd take Vogel over every one of those guys and take my chances. Indy got lucky on this one.

    I look at Vogel as a future Olympic coach.

    Last edited by Kid Minneapolis; 08-07-2012 at 11:53 AM.
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    Default Re: Granger: Pacers 2nd best in East

    I don't think it's out of the realm of possibility. The East is pretty much Miami, then a handful of teams (Bulls *with healthy Rose, Celts, Pacers, and Nets), then everyone else.

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    Default Re: Granger: Pacers 2nd best in East

    Quote Originally Posted by ChicagoJ View Post
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    Doc Rivers is a great coach? That's news to me. If Doc has a great roster, he wins. If Doc has a lousy roster, he loses. If Doc has an average roster, his team plays about 0.500.

    I think Doc was a great announcer, - very articulate, knows the game, sees the court, knows the people, hasn't been tuned out in Boston, but none of those things translate to "great" coach.

    He's a good coach.
    Isn't that the case with all coaches, in every sport though? Phil Jackson, Pat Riley, etc only won championships when they had great talent, but never otherwise.

    I'm not saying Doc is an all time great coach by any means. He is however EASILY one of the top coaches in the NBA today. {Popovich, Thibs--a fomer assistant of Doc, and maybe Carlisle are the other top coaches)

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    Default Re: Granger: Pacers 2nd best in East

    Quote Originally Posted by Kid Minneapolis View Post
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    Doc Rivers (Celtics): $7 million
    Mike DAntoni (Knicks-resigned): $6 million

    Gregg Popovich (Spurs): $6 million

    Nate McMillan (Trail Blazers): $5.5 million
    Rick Adelman (Timberwolves): $5 million
    Flip Saunders (Wizards-fired): $4.8 million
    Rick Carlisle (Mavericks): $4.5 million
    Mike Brown (Lakers): $4.5 million
    Stan Van Gundy (Magic): $4.5 million
    Scott Skiles (Bucks): $4.5 million

    I know an up-and-coming coaching star when I see one and Vogel is one. Since Popp and Carlisle are likely never coming here, I'd take Vogel over every one of those guys and take my chances. Indy got lucky on this one.

    I look at Vogel as a future Olympic coach.

    Do you mean as the head coach? Or as an assistant?

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    Default Re: Granger: Pacers 2nd best in East

    Quote Originally Posted by Ace E.Anderson View Post
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    Do you mean as the head coach? Or as an assistant?
    Either one? At least an assistant, maybe head coach down the road.
    There are two types of quarterbacks in the league: Those whom over time, the league figures out ... and those who figure out the league.

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    Default Re: Granger: Pacers 2nd best in East

    Hmm. It's the team's (and Granger's) job to believe they're the best team in the NBA.

    It's our job as fans to interject some reality.

    From that perspective, I'm disappointed that Granger's not making the case for why they aren't the best team in the East.

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    Default Re: Granger: Pacers 2nd best in East

    I disagree. The truly great coaches take a lousy roster and get them to 0.500. (Then they get replaced and somebody else gets the credit. Think: Hubie Brown, Kevin Loughery (for the old guys), Fratello, Larry Brown, etc.)

    The truly great coaches take an average roster and get them to 50+ wins. (Then they get replaced and somebody else gets the credit. Think: Larry Brown, Don Nelson, Rick Carlisle, George Karl, etc.)

    I don't see Doc in that type of category. He's gets out of his team what is expected.

    I think you guys are really overselling Vogel. Let's see what he does in his second full season. This has been the nemesis for many coaches in the past. Even in the Pacers history, it wasn't clear after one season just how bad Zeke and Versace were going to turn out to be, as they took average teams and led them to 0.500 records. (It was later that we discovered they had already used all their coaching "tricks" and there was nothing more in reserve.)

    Its too early to make the call, and while I think he's been a great leader I'm still not 100% sold on his coaching during the 48 minutes that comprise a basketball game. Time will tell.
    Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
    Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
    Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
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    And life itself, rushing over me
    Life itself, the wind in black elms,
    Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you


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    Default Re: Granger: Pacers 2nd best in East

    Quote Originally Posted by docpaul View Post
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    Hmm. It's the team's (and Granger's) job to believe they're the best team in the NBA.

    It's our job as fans to interject some reality.

    From that perspective, I'm disappointed that Granger's not making the case for why they aren't the best team in the East.
    To be clear the original quote said he thinks they are a top 2 team in the East. So that gives it a different meaning than 2nd best. Its saying we are one of the top 2 teams.
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    Default Re: Granger: Pacers 2nd best in East

    Quote Originally Posted by ChicagoJ View Post
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    I think you guys are really overselling Vogel. Let's see what he does in his second full season. This has been the nemesis for many coaches in the past. Even in the Pacers history, it wasn't clear after one season just how bad Zeke and Versace were going to turn out to be, as they took average teams and led them to 0.500 records. (It was later that we discovered they had already used all their coaching "tricks" and there was nothing more in reserve.)

    Its too early to make the call, and while I think he's been a great leader I'm still not 100% sold on his coaching during the 48 minutes that comprise a basketball game. Time will tell.
    See, I'm the opposite, I've see enough from a guy who by all means is still "green" to know that he has the traits to be an exceedingly great coach --- he's confident, he's a fantastic communicator, the players respect him, he's a fantastic motivator, he promotes chemistry, and he's proven that while his coaching tactics might still be raw, he learns from his mistakes and makes adjustments. He's smart enough to know to surround himself with great assistants and he works well with them. He's willing to change his plan to fit the players. The only reason his X's and O's are less than perfect is because he has barely two years of actual head coaching experience and was only an assistant before that, and he's still very very young. I'd say for a first-time 30-something coach, he has tremendous innate coaching ability that will only become stronger with more experience.

    I'm not saying he's a top 3 coach right now --- I'm saying he's top 10 and give him 5 years and he will be a top 3 or top 2 coach. Indy needs to hold on to this guy.
    Last edited by Kid Minneapolis; 08-07-2012 at 01:41 PM.
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    Default Re: Granger: Pacers 2nd best in East

    As for the original post, I can see it happening. We may not have the star power of the others, but we have a very solid roster one through ten. The way the team is built, which is on length, size, strength, rebounding, defense... you can expect regular-season near-domination, and then that style also translates well in the playoffs. Their one flaw is a lack of a go-to scorer against tough playoff defenses. I still think that will be their achilles heel this year, but we'll see.

    I agree though that everyone except Miami (and really even Miami) should not want to play Indy this year. There is no team in the East that is clearly better than Indy except Miami.
    Last edited by Kid Minneapolis; 08-07-2012 at 01:42 PM.
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    Default Re: Granger: Pacers 2nd best in East

    Quote Originally Posted by ChicagoJ View Post
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    I disagree. The truly great coaches take a lousy roster and get them to 0.500. (Then they get replaced and somebody else gets the credit. Think: Hubie Brown, Kevin Loughery (for the old guys), Fratello, Larry Brown, etc.)

    The truly great coaches take an average roster and get them to 50+ wins. (Then they get replaced and somebody else gets the credit. Think: Larry Brown, Don Nelson, Rick Carlisle, George Karl, etc.)

    I don't see Doc in that type of category. He's gets out of his team what is expected.

    I think you guys are really overselling Vogel. Let's see what he does in his second full season. This has been the nemesis for many coaches in the past. Even in the Pacers history, it wasn't clear after one season just how bad Zeke and Versace were going to turn out to be, as they took average teams and led them to 0.500 records. (It was later that we discovered they had already used all their coaching "tricks" and there was nothing more in reserve.)

    Its too early to make the call, and while I think he's been a great leader I'm still not 100% sold on his coaching during the 48 minutes that comprise a basketball game. Time will tell.
    I agree on Vogel. This season will be his first real test if you ask me, because this will be his first season to really put his stamp on the offense and defense. I think he can be a damn fine coach, but let's give it some time first.
    Lance + Starting SG = Awesome

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    Default Re: Granger: Pacers 2nd best in East

    Quote Originally Posted by ChicagoJ View Post
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    I disagree. The truly great coaches take a lousy roster and get them to 0.500. (Then they get replaced and somebody else gets the credit. Think: Hubie Brown, Kevin Loughery (for the old guys), Fratello, Larry Brown, etc.)

    The truly great coaches take an average roster and get them to 50+ wins. (Then they get replaced and somebody else gets the credit. Think: Larry Brown, Don Nelson, Rick Carlisle, George Karl, etc.)
    Your criteria for a great coach describes to a "T" what the young guy coaching the Pacers achieved in less than two full seasons (our win total projected over a total season would have exceeded 50 last year). He did that without having a full first season, being handed JOB's train-wreck, and having never head-coached before.

    I think you all will realize what we have in a few years. I understand that he hasn't achieved it yet, but you'll see. It'll happen. Vogel will be the reason we start to attract big free agents in the next few years.
    There are two types of quarterbacks in the league: Those whom over time, the league figures out ... and those who figure out the league.

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    Default Re: Granger: Pacers 2nd best in East

    Why does everybody think the Nets are going to be so good? Yeah, I know they got a little better, but they basically just added Joe Johnson. I think they'll make the playoffs for sure, but not going to a top 4 team in the East. I'm still not completely sold on the Celtics either, they've gotta slow down sometime with their best guys being so old.

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