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Thread: PAUL GEORGE???

  1. #101
    The Last Great Pacer BlueNGold's Avatar
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    Default Re: PAUL GEORGE???

    Quote Originally Posted by Pacersalltheway10 View Post
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    I don't care who he's friends with off the court but on the court he needs Danny Granger's attitude. Put Danny Granger's attitude with Paul George and he'll be an efficient 20+ scorer easily.
    Give Paul a couple years and you can say the same thing. Other than pure shooting, there isn't any aspect of the game that I see Danny as superior in terms of talent. People are going to be very surprised when Paul's body gets strong enough to finish in traffic and he starts getting more comfortable converting shots. The guy is not afraid to take over. Mentally he is nothing like Prince...and he's more confident than Granger. Paul wants to be the best Pacer ever and he believes he can do it.

  2. #102
    Member Ace E.Anderson's Avatar
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    Default Re: PAUL GEORGE???

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
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    Paul is nothing like Prince. Paul wants to be the man. Prince is hesitant to takeover and quite frankly he's not as athletic. Yes, he's long and moves very well...but he's not explosive like Paul. Granger isn't like Paul either. Rudy Gay is the best comparable.
    I will never ever understand the Prince comparisons. Prince wasn't nearly as athletic, nor as good a 3pt shooter as PG is. Their styles of play couldn't be more different. I like the Rudy Gay comparisons. I could even see a more athletic (and hopefully aggressive) Danny Granger. But Tayahaun Prince I don't think so.

    Also I agree with the poster who said that if you could combine Danny's overconfidence with Pauls talent, you'd have a very good player.

  3. #103
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    Default Re: PAUL GEORGE???

    Quote Originally Posted by shags View Post
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    Well, you've got to consider a few things when comparing Prince to George. First of all, there's a pretty good chance George NEVER plays on teams as good as the 2004, 2005, and 2006 Piston teams. Secondly, Prince is a SIGNIFICANTLY better defensive player than George was. Put it this way, an injured Dwyane Wade's not averaging 26.1 ppg (with a FIVE point game) against 2004 Tayshaun Prince (see Bryant, Kobe, 2004 NBA Finals). The 2004 Tayshaun Prince wouldn't have allowed Wade to average 30.4 ppg taking out the five point game, or 33.3 ppg in the final 3 games.

    Put it this way, if the 2004 Pistons played the 2012 Pacers, the Pistons offensive strategy would be to run Richard Hamilton off screens, wait until George screws up his defensive assignment, and have Hamilton hit a mid-range jumper. Lather, rinse, repeat. The Pistons have 28 points right there.

    So, while maybe George is Prince's equal offensively, he's got a LONG way to go before he reaches Prince's level defensively.

    Thank you so much for bringing some extra clarity to this issue. Great post.

    I can't believe some think that Prince isn't athletic. For the love of.....I seen Prince make one of the most athletic defensive plays ever in a playoff game and single handedly steal the ECF from the Pacers. The infamous BLOCK.
    Last edited by graphic-er; 09-01-2012 at 10:39 PM.
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  4. #104
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    Default Re: PAUL GEORGE???

    Quote Originally Posted by Ace E.Anderson View Post
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    I will never ever understand the Prince comparisons. Prince wasn't nearly as athletic, nor as good a 3pt shooter as PG is. Their styles of play couldn't be more different. I like the Rudy Gay comparisons. I could even see a more athletic (and hopefully aggressive) Danny Granger. But Tayahaun Prince I don't think so.

    Also I agree with the poster who said that if you could combine Danny's overconfidence with Pauls talent, you'd have a very good player.
    Both Prince and George have a unique ability to score off their amazing defense, while being limited offensively. The Prince comparison is a pretty apt in my opinion, Paul hasn't shown the ability to take it to the next level. Most players of the caliber you are extrapolating Paul George to be, show that offensive ability in the first couple of seasons in the league.
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  5. #105
    thx4tehmRys Danny! daschysta's Avatar
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    Default Re: PAUL GEORGE???

    Quote Originally Posted by graphic-er View Post
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    Thank you so much for bringing some extra clarity to this issue. Great post.

    I can't believe some think that Prince isn't athletic. For the love of.....I seen Prince make one of the most athletic defensive plays ever in a playoff game and single handedly steal the ECF from the Pacers. The infamous BLOCK.
    That was more a function of Reggie thinking he was in the clear and Tayshaun having excellent length more than athleticism. Prince isn't unathletic, to be sure, but most reasonable people can see that George is much, much more athletic than Prince ever was, it isn't really in question.

    The Pacers are one of the most balanced offensive teams in the league, just like the Pistons were, and Prince, while and excellent defender in his own right, had a much better defensive team than today's pacers watching his back, thus it is disingenuous to just take the numbers his opponents scored and compare it directly to George.

    George compares well with lots of players in their second year that went on to score much better than Prince can, and George HAS shown flashes of his offensive potential, he isn't nearly as limited as you make him out to be. Granger, Joe Johnson, Sean Marion, all were comparable as scorers to George when they were his age, or even worse. Some people forget that George was brought in as a project, he isn't really polished yet, but to say he never can be at the age of 22 isn't really fair.

    In their second years George has better numbers in every single category, despite being 2 years younger, he scored more points, on greater efficiency, rebounds much better, passes better, steals more, pretty much literally every single statistical category. That much is inarguable. Why some people think George is some finished product at 22 makes little sense to me. Even if you don't think he is hyper-aggressive he should comfortably score more than prince with just slightly more usage, even if he never improves his offensive game, and defensively he has great potential as well. Prince really isn't a good comparison, George is much more talented than he ever was.
    Last edited by daschysta; 09-01-2012 at 10:57 PM.

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  7. #106
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    Default Re: PAUL GEORGE???

    Quote Originally Posted by Ace E.Anderson View Post
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    I didn't want to continue going back and forth, but I've NEVER understood the Prince comparisons. Tayshaun was slow, unathletic (vertically and foot speed) and was more of a post up/mid range scorer. PG is already a better deep shooter (took over 20 more 3's last year than Prince ever has in a season)

    Also PG is already as good of a scorer, without havin a "go to" move.
    Prince was one of the best SF's in the league during his prime just because what he brought defensively. Saying that he isn't athletic shows that you have no clue what athleticism is in basketball. Everyone in the NBA who is a great defender is pretty damn athletic. You think Athleticism is how high you can jump and how fast you dribble.
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    Default Re: PAUL GEORGE???

    Quote Originally Posted by graphic-er View Post
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    Prince was one of the best SF's in the league during his prime just because what he brought defensively. Saying that he isn't athletic shows that you have no clue what athleticism is in basketball. Everyone in the NBA who is a great defender is pretty damn athletic. You think Athleticism is how high you can jump and how fast you dribble.
    One of the best SF's in the league? When? He was a very good role player, but to say he was one of the best (I'd assume you meant top 5) at his position is laughable.

    Also EVERYONE in the league is athletic. Prince wasn't very athletic; by freak athlete standards. Athleticism, to me consists of jumping ability, speed, quickness, hand-eye coordination, among other things. Prince had very good hand eye coordination, anticipation, and ELITE length. He was a great defender because it was difficult to get a clean look with those long limbs in your grill. He was able to give quicker players space to compensate for his lack of foot speed and still alter their shots. Bc Prince was so long, he could cover ground very quickly. That's part of what happened during the "block" (not to mention Reggie should've dunked the da*n ball lol)

    Also not every good defender is athletic. Shane Battier, Chuck Hayes, Ron Artest in his heyday, Bruce Bowen, are examples of 3 players that were strong defenders but not athletic. Defense is all fundamentals, anticipation, bball IQ, and effort. Being a great athlete helps enhance the aforementioned skills, but it isn't required.

    Nobody is suggesting that Prince is a bad player, just that he's a bad comparison for Paul. Not every player comes into the league averaging 17-20 ppg. Especially on playoff teams.

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    thx4tehmRys Danny! daschysta's Avatar
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    Default Re: PAUL GEORGE???

    Quote Originally Posted by Ace E.Anderson View Post
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    One of the best SF's in the league? When? He was a very good role player, but to say he was one of the best (I'd assume you meant top 5) at his position is laughable.

    Also EVERYONE in the league is athletic. Prince wasn't very athletic; by freak athlete standards. Athleticism, to me consists of jumping ability, speed, quickness, hand-eye coordination, among other things. Prince had very good hand eye coordination, anticipation, and ELITE length. He was a great defender because it was difficult to get a clean look with those long limbs in your grill. He was able to give quicker players space to compensate for his lack of foot speed and still alter their shots. Bc Prince was so long, he could cover ground very quickly. That's part of what happened during the "block" (not to mention Reggie should've dunked the da*n ball lol)

    Also not every good defender is athletic. Shane Battier, Chuck Hayes, Ron Artest in his heyday, Bruce Bowen, are examples of 3 players that were strong defenders but not athletic. Defense is all fundamentals, anticipation, bball IQ, and effort. Being a great athlete helps enhance the aforementioned skills, but it isn't required.

    Nobody is suggesting that Prince is a bad player, just that he's a bad comparison for Paul. Not every player comes into the league averaging 17-20 ppg. Especially on playoff teams.
    Good point, most players with Paul George's talent are drafted to bad teams high in the lottery that need the player to immediately be high usage, that isn't the case with Paul. Given that i'm very pleased with his development so far, it isn't really fair to expect him to forcibly assert himself offensively as sch a young guy with very good veteran players higher up the totem pole.

  10. #109

    Default Re: PAUL GEORGE???

    Sorry guys, I just don't see it. I think we'd all agree that at best Danny's a second option offensively for a contender, I don't even see that for PG. Not with this team anyway. Put him in a D'Antoni/Nelson offense where all he needs to do is get on the break and either fill the lane or trail for a 3 and he'd be a "star." But obviously gimmick offenses like that don't win titles, they make the 2nd round and fizzle.

    I'm not trying to pigeonhole him or anything, he's still really young and still has to hopefully learn to harness all his physical tools. But I just think people see things that aren't remotely there with him. When I see PG catch the ball on the wing in a clearout and he doesn't settle for a fallback I'm taller than you jumper it'll be the first time. He's adopting a lot of the same offensive tendencies we complain about with Danny so much. I remember when Danny was a rookie contract player that played strong multi-faceted defense (not as good on ball but much better off), then it became "get him shots!" and we know what happened. Really, I kind of want to see an Augustin/Hill/Danny starting unit. I don't know how it'd do, but I think it could be better than Hill/PG/Danny. I hope Hill's big contract doesn't force, from whatever higher power (including Frank's own mind), Frank into not having the option to start Augustin at the point.

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  12. #110
    The Last Great Pacer BlueNGold's Avatar
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    Default Re: PAUL GEORGE???

    Quote Originally Posted by Heisenberg View Post
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    Sorry guys, I just don't see it. I think we'd all agree that at best Danny's a second option offensively for a contender, I don't even see that for PG. Not with this team anyway. Put him in a D'Antoni/Nelson offense where all he needs to do is get on the break and either fill the lane or trail for a 3 and he'd be a "star." But obviously gimmick offenses like that don't win titles, they make the 2nd round and fizzle.

    I'm not trying to pigeonhole him or anything, he's still really young and still has to hopefully learn to harness all his physical tools. But I just think people see things that aren't remotely there with him. When I see PG catch the ball on the wing in a clearout and he doesn't settle for a fallback I'm taller than you jumper it'll be the first time. He's adopting a lot of the same offensive tendencies we complain about with Danny so much. I remember when Danny was a rookie contract player that played strong multi-faceted defense (not as good on ball but much better off), then it became "get him shots!" and we know what happened. Really, I kind of want to see an Augustin/Hill/Danny starting unit. I don't know how it'd do, but I think it could be better than Hill/PG/Danny. I hope Hill's big contract doesn't force, from whatever higher power (including Frank's own mind), Frank into not having the option to start Augustin at the point.
    I think part of the problem is that his body isn't strong enough. Another issue is that he's had an odd start in the NBA with the lock-out. I could very well be making excuses, but time will tell. This coming year is critical. He does need to become a more consistent shooter with a more effective and well-rounded offensive game if he ever expects to be a franchise player.

  13. #111

    Default Re: PAUL GEORGE???

    George won't really start to develop until they start giving him real responsibility. If you don't ask for much you're not gonna get much. I have a feeling this season we're gonna see a lot more plays run for him and a lot more end of quarter and game possessions.

  14. #112
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    Default Re: PAUL GEORGE???

    Quote Originally Posted by Heisenberg View Post
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    Sorry guys, I just don't see it. I think we'd all agree that at best Danny's a second option offensively for a contender, I don't even see that for PG. Not with this team anyway. Put him in a D'Antoni/Nelson offense where all he needs to do is get on the break and either fill the lane or trail for a 3 and he'd be a "star." But obviously gimmick offenses like that don't win titles, they make the 2nd round and fizzle.

    I'm not trying to pigeonhole him or anything, he's still really young and still has to hopefully learn to harness all his physical tools. But I just think people see things that aren't remotely there with him. When I see PG catch the ball on the wing in a clearout and he doesn't settle for a fallback I'm taller than you jumper it'll be the first time. He's adopting a lot of the same offensive tendencies we complain about with Danny so much. I remember when Danny was a rookie contract player that played strong multi-faceted defense (not as good on ball but much better off), then it became "get him shots!" and we know what happened. Really, I kind of want to see an Augustin/Hill/Danny starting unit. I don't know how it'd do, but I think it could be better than Hill/PG/Danny. I hope Hill's big contract doesn't force, from whatever higher power (including Frank's own mind), Frank into not having the option to start Augustin at the point.
    When people compare him to guys like Rudy Gay, Shawn Marion, etc we aren't saying he'll be a superstar. He may not even make many all star teams (unless he stays at the 2 guard spot) but a guy who can average 18-20 ppg isn't out of the question after he averaged 12 by being the 4th and 5th option offensively in his first year as a starter.

  15. #113
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    Default Re: PAUL GEORGE???

    Quote Originally Posted by Ace E.Anderson View Post
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    When people compare him to guys like Rudy Gay, Shawn Marion, etc we aren't saying he'll be a superstar. He may not even make many all star teams (unless he stays at the 2 guard spot) but a guy who can average 18-20 ppg isn't out of the question after he averaged 12 by being the 4th and 5th option offensively in his first year as a starter.
    Yes. It would be unusual for Paul to not at least be an all-star calibre player and average 18-20. He will probably exceed 20ppg at some point in his career, even if it's somewhat of a disappointing career. He has too many gifts not to hit the 20ppg level.

    BTW, there was a time not long ago when I was telling everyone that Granger's strength would be his offense...but most people thought he would be a defender. I could see his natural ability and awareness. I am now saying that Paul will be a better player than Danny. He is better than Danny at 80% of the game. I can't tell where his ceiling is, but he will supplant Granger as the face of the franchise within two or three years.

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    Default Re: PAUL GEORGE???

    Once Paul starts driving to the hoop more, the Pacers will be 10x better, because then he can kick it out to DG and Barbosa, or lob it to Roy
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    Default Re: PAUL GEORGE???

    I'll eat my shoe if PG doesn't average 18-20 ppg at some point in his career at least. He already scores an efficient 12 at 22 years old as the 4th option on a good team. His usage is not even top 40 among shooting guards, yet he has the 9th highest PER at that position and has every tool necessary to be a big NBA star. The criticism that he just doesn't "want it" or is too passive doesn't really ring true considering that he's been a 20/21 year old kid on one of the top teams in his conference and is playing on a team with 2 former all-stars (recent) and a current all-star. Of course he's going to defer to people like that early on. With George's talent you don't need to be some hyper aggressive Kobe type to be a really good player. He has elite athleticism, the ability to shoot very well, unlike alot of other elite athletes, and amazing defensive instincts. George has future All Star caliber player written all over him, even if he doesn't make it for a while since the team is relatively stacked with other good players. Every player in our starting lineup is capable of putting up 15+ ppg on a team that isn't so balanced scoring the ball, not many NBA teams can claim that. George's tools are far above someone like Prince, who keeps getting brought up. I'm a die hard UK fan, from Kentucky originally, I watched all of those Tubby Smith teams, Prince is a really good player, but in terms of raw physical talent George is in a different zip code, and George has great instincts too, especially on the defensive side of the ball and is also an above average shooter. He doesn't have to be a kobe bryant/ dwayne wade type to score a good amount of points. Sean Marion, Danny Granger, Luol Deng, Rudy Gay, Andre Kirilenko and many others have scored 18-25 ppg in their careers without being great ball handlers, and George has greater physical tools than alot of them. He'll get there.
    Last edited by daschysta; 09-03-2012 at 07:30 PM.

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