No way of knowing this for sure but I would bet money they would take that trade in a heartbeat...
PG is at least a year or two younger isn't he? With marginally better statistics...
PG has way more potential than Gordon...
Nothing in life worth having comes easy.
I think it's a little too early to know who will be the better player for the long haul. With that said, I've already gone on record in that I think Paul is better right now, but it's definitely debatable.
Just as the Jazz wouldn't take PG, I'm 100% sure the Pacers wouldn't think to trade PG for Gordon Hayward......
I think the PG and GH comparison is interesting. Both played well for such young players, but both (and I didn't watch much GH, but did check his box score a lot, so I am making a deduction off of that) seemed to disappear at times. Often I think we blame it on focus, but I think it has more to do with young players being deferential still to the older players on their teams. This year should be interesting for both.
Hayward benefited from being able to play his natural position. Really good player, maybe slightly ahead of Paul right now offensively, but he's nowhere near as versatile of a defender.
At a glance the West appears to have the weaker competition at SF spot and the East has weaker competition at the SG spot going forward...
Top Eastern SF
Top Western SF
Top Eastern SG
Top Western SG
And Webster's Dictionary defi... Just kidding...
I guess what I look for in a player to know if he has all-star>superstar potential is if at a young age that person appears to already have an advantage in any particular area or areas over the majority of the players in the league at his position...
An all-star might have one or two advantages at a young age where a superstar will show in multiple areas...
Gordon appears to have a very high basketball IQ and already knows how to perform well in big games... That's it... I don't really see any one other discernible advantage the kid has over the majority of the players in the league at his position... He does a lot of things well and has the potential to be a good player for years... And he definately could contribute to a championship team... I just don't ever see him being the 1st or 2nd best player on a championship contending team...
PG has several qualities greater than the majority of the players in the league at his position... At 6'10" he is the tallest SG in the NBA... He is also extremely athletic... He can run out on a fast break faster than most SGs and can jump higher than most SGs... He plays the passing lanes for steals better than maybe any player I have ever seen... He is also one of the best all-around defenders in the league... And he is an elite rebounder at SG... If he can polish up other parts of his game he has the potential to be one of the top SGs in the league... And I can see him becoming a 1st or 2nd best player on a championship contending team...
Nothing in life worth having comes easy.
I don't see how they are even being compared. PG is beyond a doubt both better right now and has far more upside. The Jazz would do the trade straight up without a second thought. PG is frequently talked about by other players, other fans, national media, etc. etc. He has obvious star potential (just look at his ridiculous game vs the Mavs last year).
"Could very well end up being the best player in the draft"
"Looking like the Pacers got a steal"
Are the types of things that were side both before and after the draft. PG just needs experience, focus, and most of all opportunity.
Last edited by oxxo; 08-08-2012 at 06:44 PM.
Meh. Paul George scored more points, in less minutes while on a better team when talking about offense. He had 2 votes for All NBA Defensive 1st team, and 6 votes for All NBA Defensive 2nd team, out of the 30 head coaches who voted, and no Vogel couldn't vote for his own players.
Yes, Paul George struggled in the playoffs, but Hayward didn't shoot over 19% (6 of 33) in the playoffs himself.
I'm not exactly sure why Utah wouldn't trade Hayward for George if given the chance.
I didn't want the pacers to draft Heyward in 2010. I wanted PG. I was jumping up and down happy when the jazz picked Heyward. I wouldn't trade PG for Heyward and 2 first round draft picks. Let them keep Heyward. We will find out thi s year that PG is superior in almost everyway on a basketball court than GH.
At the least I see PG being on one of the all defensive teams and up his PPG average by 3 or 4 points.
Looking at the last 2 months of the season Hayward was playing out of his mind compared to George.
I like George, but I just like Hayward much better going forward. I'm just not sure how you all can be so sure on a guy who look nothing but spot of 3's all year long. He is Danny Granger lite right now, and Tayshaun Prince 2.0 in the future. I think Hayward's out look is much better. I think he has a legit shot at being a Genobli type player.
You can't get champagne from a garden hose.
Your comparisons are way off for a number of things.
1. PG is already a better shooter and scorer than Prince has been within his career. Also, Prince wasn't athletic enough to guard quick 1's and 2's...on a CONSISTENT basis. Danny Granger and Prince play nothing alike, and neither are particularly explosive, quick, nor athletic which are all strengths of Paul...so how do they compare?
2. Hayward doesn't have Ginobili's herky-jerky type of ball handling skill. He's not as quick, nor as good of a ball-handler as Ginobili (which is part of what makes Manu so good)
As someone stated before, Paul averaged more points, in less minutes, on a much better team, as a lesser focal point within the offense. All this was WITH Heyward's lil "surge" at the end of the season (though 14 ppg isnt much of a surge when you should be the best wing scorer on your team). And then when you add in George's superior athleticism, rebounding, and defense...PG is better now and going forward. Lol I don't see how anyone could argue different.
But at this point your mind is made up. So the arguing is a moot point, no matter how many facts people may spew within this thread.
I'm not sure if it's a coincidence or not, but I've noticed that between Gordon and Heyward, you like home-grown, Indiana boys quite more than the average pacer fan. Not necessarily a bad thing, they're both good young players. But you're opinion of them is a lot higher than most.
I wish nothing but success to Hayward and PG. Personally, I'm so very happy the Pacers drafted PG. PGs offense will come, but damn the dude can play some serious D and hit those boards. Gotta love that.
It's a good thing that Paul can defend. It's even better that he is a really really good defender. Glad he can rebound. Glad he can block shots. Glad he is athletic. All of that stuff is good. But just listing out all the things he can do makes me feel like seth or MR explaining why McRoberts should be playing. It's stuff that's nice, but it not stuff that's Paul's job.
Paul can play in the league with the skill set he has now. A kind of young Bruce Bowen guy. Good guy to have on a team. Makes the team better. Versatile, doesn't need the ball, but basically Gerald Green on steroids. Makes the team good, but doesn't make the team great. or even very good.
The Pacers need Paul to be very good at least. They need him to be a guy you have to pay attention to when they are defending the B&G. Paul needs to become a 'Scoring' Guard. not just a defender/3-pt shooter. Paul needs to get a couple of moves that force teams to double against him or just give up points by not doing so.
and one more thing. to use an Isiah Thomasism, he need to stop playing just to play and start playing to win. So far, Paul has just showed up and played the game. That was great until things get serious, and suddenly Paul doesn't have a go to move. or can't feed the post when pressured. or can't post a guy that half a foot shorter than he is. He just doesn't have a purpose to what he is doing. That is the things he needs to work on. Find something that allows him to impose his will on the guy guarding him. Put a half *** defender on Danny and he'll go for 40. put the same guy on Paul and he goes for 15 or 20. Paul needs to find what he can do and start doing it until someone figures out a way to stop it.
hope that makes sense.
Last edited by spazzxb; 08-09-2012 at 04:55 PM.
What does Hayward's last 2 months of the season have to do with anything? He shot 19% in the playoffs after those 2 months too. You keep pointing out throughout this thread when George struggled, and when Hayward did well, like the rest of the season didn't happen.
Also, when are you going to give up on this Tayshaun Prince thing? Have you ever looked at Tayshaun Prince's career? Paul George is already averaging what Tayshaun did in his prime. He was essentially Tayshaun Prince last season. I guess only Gordon Hayward can get better. Paul is doomed to never improve.
I didn't want to continue going back and forth, but I've NEVER understood the Prince comparisons. Tayshaun was slow, unathletic (vertically and foot speed) and was more of a post up/mid range scorer. PG is already a better deep shooter (took over 20 more 3's last year than Prince ever has in a season)
Also PG is already as good of a scorer, without havin a "go to" move.
Thanks for all the responses guys! I was away for awhile but enjoyed reading everyone's thoughts! I'm so excited for preseason to start... I wanna see the scrimmages, and see where everyone has improved!