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Thread: Back to School

  1. #26
    The New Gold Swagger travmil's Avatar
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    Default Re: Back to School

    Quote Originally Posted by joew8302 View Post
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    Good night! I am glad you got a good education, but it seems like you just proved travmil's point. Sounds like a madhouse based on what you have described. As a teacher I lose respect for a colleague that does not return calls, emails etc. Communicating with parents is paramount to the job IMO.
    Yeah I was gonna ask how on earth that made it look like I was dead wrong. Sounds like I'm right on. What can you do? Besides remove your child from that environment and place them in a school where those things aren't considered normal? I guess not much.

    Unfortunately P4E is indirectly demonstrating part of the problem. The people in this area DO consider the situation he's describing to be normal. I complained about it at one of our HOA meetings and the parents there said the exact same thing. They said "What can you do? You'll have that everywhere". I say bull****, you can do plenty and it's NOT like that everywhere.
    Last edited by travmil; 08-05-2012 at 09:59 PM.

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    Default Re: Back to School

    Quote Originally Posted by travmil View Post
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    Yeah I was gonna ask how on earth that made it look like I was dead wrong. Sounds like I'm right on. What can you do? Besides remove your child from that environment and place them in a school where those things aren't considered normal? I guess not much.

    Unfortunately P4E is indirectly demonstrating part of the problem. The people in this area DO consider the situation he's describing to be normal. I complained about it at one of our HOA meetings and the parents there said the exact same thing. They said "What can you do? You'll have that everywhere". I say bull****, you can do plenty and it's NOT like that everywhere.
    It's scary that there are communities that support that kind of an environment at school. Schools can improve themselves, but the biggest problems in public schools start with the homes these kids come from. The sooner the parents clean up their acts, the sooner the public schools get better.

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    Default Re: Back to School

    Quote Originally Posted by travmil View Post
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    Yeah I was gonna ask how on earth that made it look like I was dead wrong. Sounds like I'm right on. What can you do? Besides remove your child from that environment and place them in a school where those things aren't considered normal? I guess not much.

    Unfortunately P4E is indirectly demonstrating part of the problem. The people in this area DO consider the situation he's describing to be normal. I complained about it at one of our HOA meetings and the parents there said the exact same thing. They said "What can you do? You'll have that everywhere". I say bull****, you can do plenty and it's NOT like that everywhere.

    I can't tell you this is a perfect method or it would work there or anything. But let me preface by saying I am teaching at one of the worst performing schools in one of the worst performing states in the entire nation. Needless to say for the most part many of the kids I teach are not exactly cream of the crop. Whenever a student is running their mouth or being disruptive I hit the call button to remove them. If they do the same thing tomorrow I will hit the button tomorrow. I am not worried about annoying an administrator or doing any of that.

    Finally, if kids are running their mouths or fighting a grade of F sends a loud message. If kids start to understand you will not pass them if they come in to class and try to destroy things then word will eventually get around and kids will get the message to act right.

    Who knows if this stuff would work at Warren Central, but I can honestly say my classes after the first two weeks are well behaved and I have never ever had fights or other BS arise such as what has been described.

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    Default Re: Back to School

    Wait, wait, P4E kids were selling weed in your school, fights every day and you thought this was a good environment? Going to Brebeuf I got to go to a lot of Indy area schools to play basketball. Warren Central always gave me the heebie jeebies, I did not feel comfortable there on more than one occasion. Never felt that way at Pike or heck even Arsenal Tech (though maybe I should have). I have never heard a single good thing about Warren Central or the Warren schools.

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    Default Re: Back to School

    Quote Originally Posted by joew8302 View Post
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    I can't tell you this is a perfect method or it would work there or anything. But let me preface by saying I am teaching at one of the worst performing schools in one of the worst performing states in the entire nation. Needless to say for the most part many of the kids I teach are not exactly cream of the crop. Whenever a student is running their mouth or being disruptive I hit the call button to remove them. If they do the same thing tomorrow I will hit the button tomorrow. I am not worried about annoying an administrator or doing any of that.

    Finally, if kids are running their mouths or fighting a grade of F sends a loud message. If kids start to understand you will not pass them if they come in to class and try to destroy things then word will eventually get around and kids will get the message to act right.

    Who knows if this stuff would work at Warren Central, but I can honestly say my classes after the first two weeks are well behaved and I have never ever had fights or other BS arise such as what has been described.
    I'm glad you found something that worked for you.

    But let me ask you this: You teach secondary ed, right?

    I was in elementary ed. (I've been out of that field for 3 years now). At that age range, you can't just threaten to flunk them or just keep kicking them out like that. If you kept kicking a kid out like that the administrator would bite your head off because they expect you to figure it out yourself and assume you were the problem if you failed to handle it. It's a different mindset with those grade levels; there's a lot more pressure to take care of things on your own and to make sure kids pass on at what felt like almost any cost. It's a troubling thing. I think part of it is there's worry about the kid's social wellbeing and growth if they're held back, but I sometimes wonder if it's a number game as well (looks bad to have failing students; someone's head eventually rolls).

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    Default Re: Back to School

    Quote Originally Posted by joew8302 View Post
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    I can't tell you this is a perfect method or it would work there or anything. But let me preface by saying I am teaching at one of the worst performing schools in one of the worst performing states in the entire nation. Needless to say for the most part many of the kids I teach are not exactly cream of the crop. Whenever a student is running their mouth or being disruptive I hit the call button to remove them. If they do the same thing tomorrow I will hit the button tomorrow. I am not worried about annoying an administrator or doing any of that.

    Finally, if kids are running their mouths or fighting a grade of F sends a loud message. If kids start to understand you will not pass them if they come in to class and try to destroy things then word will eventually get around and kids will get the message to act right.

    Who knows if this stuff would work at Warren Central, but I can honestly say my classes after the first two weeks are well behaved and I have never ever had fights or other BS arise such as what has been described.
    dude the kids dont care that they get Fs they know they will get them. I think you need to teach a day at the school before you can really say what you would do. when I say 60% of the kids dont give a **** that is 2500 or so and they could care less if you fail them. I really cant blame the teachers you really cant do anything with those kids.


    It was only really bad in one class I was in and that was due to it being a lower level class. The others were mostly in control and the kids who wanted to get taught got taught. I will say though I didnt go their as a freshman and I could see freshman classes really bad due to the fact kids who care are mixed with kids who dont give a ****.


    My experiences with private school yes I felt safer (I didnt feel unsafe at Warren though). But the teachers didnt teach they were awful some weren't even licensed. I learned more in one class at Warren than I did in all my time at Lutheran almost 2 years (worst HS in the world). I was forced into private school and it pissed me off I just wish my mom would of let me choose.


    But I totally can see why Travmil didn't like the school I just though the positives outweigh the negatives especially the Walker Career center I had almost 20 college credits before graduating HS.


    I just had such bad teachers for so long I was glad I could finally learn. Literally had no issues with teachers and in private school I only liked 1 teacher I had in 2 years and oddly enough he taught public school before private school lol.
    Last edited by pacer4ever; 08-06-2012 at 10:41 PM.

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    Default Re: Back to School

    Quote Originally Posted by Trader Joe View Post
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    Wait, wait, P4E kids were selling weed in your school, fights every day and you thought this was a good environment? Going to Brebeuf I got to go to a lot of Indy area schools to play basketball. Warren Central always gave me the heebie jeebies, I did not feel comfortable there on more than one occasion. Never felt that way at Pike or heck even Arsenal Tech (though maybe I should have). I have never heard a single good thing about Warren Central or the Warren schools.
    Try being a Ben Davis alum. Most terrifying moment when I was working at the station radio was our trips to Warren Central for football because those *******s would never give us access to the press box via the elevator, making us have to go through the student section....

    Only time I ever thought I would need a flak jacket in my life.

    Not to mention the time Warren Central fans chased the Ben Davis football team down the interstate when their undefeated team got beat the regional in OT about 10 years ago.
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  12. #33
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    Default Re: Back to School

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks View Post
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    I'm glad you found something that worked for you.

    But let me ask you this: You teach secondary ed, right?

    I was in elementary ed. (I've been out of that field for 3 years now). At that age range, you can't just threaten to flunk them or just keep kicking them out like that. If you kept kicking a kid out like that the administrator would bite your head off because they expect you to figure it out yourself and assume you were the problem if you failed to handle it. It's a different mindset with those grade levels; there's a lot more pressure to take care of things on your own and to make sure kids pass on at what felt like almost any cost. It's a troubling thing. I think part of it is there's worry about the kid's social wellbeing and growth if they're held back, but I sometimes wonder if it's a number game as well (looks bad to have failing students; someone's head eventually rolls).
    As has been noted, the administration has the power to make or break a school. The teachers can be as good as you can get, but if the administration does not set the tone and support them then it really doesn't matter. In my teaching career I have worked for 4 principals, 2 good ones and 2 bad ones. As I go to school to become and administrator I will use what I learned from all 4 to be the best I can be for both the teachers and the schools.

    As for the two bad situations described here, secondary and elementary, the new standards for schools and how they measure achievement and are funded sometimes limit what can be done. High schools are now punished if they have too many students drop out of school, so they will not get rid of the trouble makers for fear of losing money for poor attendance and completion rates. the district should have an alternative setting for those students, but who knows how it works. When I moved up to the high school to teach after being in elementary school my whole career, I left after about a month because I did not feel safe. I had a student tell me in a casual conversation that if he felt he got done wrong by anyone, be it another student teacher, or who ever, he would get them back and they wouldn't see it coming. So what does one do in that situation? I felt bad for leaving some of the kids like that, but my principal didn't even seem to care. She never even came to talk to me after I submitted my letter of resignation.

    I'm going back into public school teaching after being in a private school these past 4 years. The funny thing is, I am going back to the district i resigned from to the intermediate school i started at when I moved down here 14 years ago. I am so looking forward to getting back and seeing how much further I can go there. I wish you all the best this school year, be you a student, a parent, or just a tax payer who is footing the bill. You are appreciated, though it is not said very much at all.

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  14. #34
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    Default Re: Back to School

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks View Post
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    I'm glad you found something that worked for you.

    But let me ask you this: You teach secondary ed, right?

    I was in elementary ed. (I've been out of that field for 3 years now). At that age range, you can't just threaten to flunk them or just keep kicking them out like that. If you kept kicking a kid out like that the administrator would bite your head off because they expect you to figure it out yourself and assume you were the problem if you failed to handle it. It's a different mindset with those grade levels; there's a lot more pressure to take care of things on your own and to make sure kids pass on at what felt like almost any cost. It's a troubling thing. I think part of it is there's worry about the kid's social wellbeing and growth if they're held back, but I sometimes wonder if it's a number game as well (looks bad to have failing students; someone's head eventually rolls).
    Yes, I am teaching JR's in High School. It would certainly be difficult if not impossible to use the same tactics on elementary children.

  15. #35
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    Default Re: Back to School

    Quote Originally Posted by pacer4ever View Post
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    dude the kids dont care that they get Fs they know they will get them. I think you need to teach a day at the school before you can really say what you would do. when I say 60% of the kids dont give a **** that is 2500 or so and they could care less if you fail them. I really cant blame the teachers you really cant do anything with those kids.


    It was only really bad in one class I was in and that was due to it being a lower level class. The others were mostly in control and the kids who wanted to get taught got taught. I will say though I didnt go their as a freshman and I could see freshman classes really bad due to the fact kids who care are mixed with kids who dont give a ****.


    My experiences with private school yes I felt safer (I didnt feel unsafe at Warren though). But the teachers didnt teach they were awful some weren't even licensed. I learned more in one class at Warren than I did in all my time at Lutheran almost 2 years (worst HS in the world). I was forced into private school and it pissed me off I just wish my mom would of let me choose.


    But I totally can see why Travmil didn't like the school I just though the positives outweigh the negatives especially the Walker Career center I had almost 20 college credits before graduating HS.


    I just had such bad teachers for so long I was glad I could finally learn. Literally had no issues with teachers and in private school I only liked 1 teacher I had in 2 years and oddly enough he taught public school before private school lol.
    Try again Chief. If those kids truly didn't care they would have dropped out or quit attending. They have pressures from family, or even intrinsically to do the least available to graduate. This is rhetoric from someone who is an inept teacher or someone defending an inept teacher.

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    Default Re: Back to School

    Not that I have a bone in this fight...

    But I went to a HS that had the best of the best (AP, IB, etc) and the worst of the worst.

    What they fail to tell you as a incoming freshman is you start in the bad classes, and as your grades improve your sophmore year they move you up to the better classes (which screwed me as I needed structure my freshman year, but that is no ones fault but my own).

    I had plenty of classmates who really did not care about grades....AT ALL....and I can assure you it was not "rhetoric from someone who is an inept teacher". I did have my share of horrible teachers (dont we all, and this isnt even me touching on my teach who was sexist and racist) but most of these teachers wanted us to succeed.

    The kids were forced to continue with school (by family, police, or the school system) but I can assure you they did not care about an "F" (or 7)

    Honestly, this is why I am OK with the system I experienced in Europe (and other places) where you had basic schooling, then you go off and join the military or start trade school.

    Sorry for the long rant.

    P.S. Sorry if I sound snooby. Not picking sides, just sharing my personal experience

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    Default Re: Back to School

    Thank God I'm no longer in school. I doubt I ever go back for my Masters.
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    Default Re: Back to School

    I do think public schools here need to make trade skills/schools a bigger part of the usual student path (or at least as a mainstream option). Not all kids are destined to be college material or white collar professionals, but they could be damn good in a trade, so I wish we would do a better job of making sure those kids aren't left frustrated with trying to learn skills they may never need.

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    Default Re: Back to School

    Quote Originally Posted by Sparhawk View Post
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    Thank God I'm no longer in school. I doubt I ever go back for my Masters.
    Its weird, I felt that way in school, but 2 years out and I have the itch to go back

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