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Thread: Donnie Walsh: "We have to go up a level"

  1. #101
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    Default Re: Donnie Walsh: "We have to go up a level"

    Quote Originally Posted by pacerDU View Post
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    You mean like the Nets last year?

    We'll have to agree to disagree on that.
    Like having their center injured didn't have anything to do with that, take Roy out and the Pacers are out of the playoffs.

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    Default Re: Donnie Walsh: "We have to go up a level"

    Quote Originally Posted by Kemo View Post
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    For a 71 year old especially, I think 9 hour days IS most definitely workaholic characteristics.. Especially considering the hours he put in when he was younger..

    Being away from one's home, family and other desires for 9 hours every day wears thin on a person, it don't matter if it's deskjob/easy work or hard manual labor.. it still drains a person mentally as well as physically...


    Heck I work anywhere from 6 1/2 hrs to 7 1/2 hours every night 3rd shift .. come home for a couple hours at 6:30/7 am , then come back for 3 more hours from 10am to 1pm .. I definitely consider myself a workaholic.. and believe me it wears thin on me very much so.. So I can only imagine how it would be for a 70+ year old guy .. lol

    Heck he should be retired and enjoying what time he has left on this earth .. Which at 71 , realistically and statistically the best he could hope for is another 25-30 years, and out of those years how many will old age have made unbearable to enjoy?
    Believe me, 20 years go by pretty damn quick when you aren't paying attention .. Hell I still can't wrap my head around it being 20 years ago since I was a senior in highschool.. It only seems like yesterday in my mind.. It sucks because my mindset is close to the same as it was when I was 18/20 yrs old except with the added wisdom of my years.... I feel like a 19/20 year old stuck in a 38 year old's body with a 45 year old's hairline lmao..

    It makes me feel old and sad at the same time.. lol Damn you father time ..
    I thanked you for making me feel old as well brah . Dammit

    However, Jay said 40 is the new 30
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  4. #103
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    Default Re: Donnie Walsh: "We have to go up a level"

    Quote Originally Posted by J7F View Post
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    Seriously?

    Last year Carmelo had teammates that were anything but scrubs and did not finish ahead of the Pacers... DWill was playing with scrubs and finished FAR below the Pacers... And Dwight got injured so we can't say anything for sure there, but very well could have finished below the Pacers...
    Melo was injured last year, Amare was injured, Lin got injured, Baron Davis had a freak injury and was not 100% all year, Dwill was injured, Brook Lopez was out of the year, etc,etc,etc, the Pacers were just lucky not to have one of their core players injured or out for the year so yeah seriously...

  5. #104
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    Default Re: Donnie Walsh: "We have to go up a level"

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    As many as the Pacers? those guys by themself with a bunch of scrubs have a better chance to get to the finals than this current Pacers team.
    Deron Williams hasn't been to the conference finals since 2007 and that was only because the Jazz avoided the #1 seed Mavericks who were upset by the Warriors.

    Carmelo has advanced past the first round ONCE in nine seasons.

    Howard played in one NBA Finals- as many as the Pacers have. The Magic have regressed every year since 2009.

    The Pacers are a better team than any of the teams for which Howard, Williams, and Anthony play.

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  7. #105
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    Default Re: Donnie Walsh: "We have to go up a level"

    [QUOTE=mattie;1487474]
    Quote Originally Posted by kent beckley View Post
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    Give us a name or this statement means nothing [/ quote]

    Lamarcus Aldridge.
    Are you serious? The Blazers aren't letting their franchise player go anywhere. Get real.

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  9. #106
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    Default Re: Donnie Walsh: "We have to go up a level"

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    Melo was injured last year, Amare was injured, Lin got injured, Baron Davis had a freak injury and was not 100% all year, Dwill was injured, Brook Lopez was out of the year, etc,etc,etc, the Pacers were just lucky not to have one of their core players injured or out for the year so yeah seriously...
    You left out the part where all those Knicks pieces fit together terribly, Amare is a shadow of his former self, Baron Davis's freak injury was obesity, the Nets were at best a borderline playoff team with a healthy Deron and Lopez.

    The Pacers were lucky with their health, but your crusade to minimize all of their accomplishments is silly. Injuries happen every year in the NBA. Every year you can make this argument about a slew of teams. It's the nature of the beast.

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    Default Re: Donnie Walsh: "We have to go up a level"

    U
    Quote Originally Posted by cdash View Post
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    You left out the part where all those Knicks pieces fit together terribly, Amare is a shadow of his former self, Baron Davis's freak injury was obesity, the Nets were at best a borderline playoff team with a healthy Deron and Lopez.

    The Pacers were lucky with their health, but your crusade to minimize all of their accomplishments is silly. Injuries happen every year in the NBA. Every year you can make this argument about a slew of teams. It's the nature of the beast.
    Yes is the "nature of the beast" but not every year you get to face teams who's franchise players or all star players are either out or hurt, how many were they? the short season was perfect for young teams, I don't expect to be the same way in an 82 games season.

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    Default Re: Donnie Walsh: "We have to go up a level"

    Quote Originally Posted by Kemo View Post
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    For a 71 year old especially, I think 9 hour days IS most definitely workaholic characteristics.. Especially considering the hours he put in when he was younger..

    Being away from one's home, family and other desires for 9 hours every day wears thin on a person, it don't matter if it's deskjob/easy work or hard manual labor.. it still drains a person mentally as well as physically...


    Heck I work anywhere from 6 1/2 hrs to 7 1/2 hours every night 3rd shift .. come home for a couple hours at 6:30/7 am , then come back for 3 more hours from 10am to 1pm .. I definitely consider myself a workaholic.. and believe me it wears thin on me very much so.. So I can only imagine how it would be for a 70+ year old guy .. lol

    Heck he should be retired and enjoying what time he has left on this earth .. Which at 71 , realistically and statistically the best he could hope for is another 25-30 years, and out of those years how many will old age have made unbearable to enjoy?
    Believe me, 20 years go by pretty damn quick when you aren't paying attention .. Hell I still can't wrap my head around it being 20 years ago since I was a senior in highschool.. It only seems like yesterday in my mind.. It sucks because my mindset is close to the same as it was when I was 18/20 yrs old except with the added wisdom of my years.... I feel like a 19/20 year old stuck in a 38 year old's body with a 45 year old's hairline lmao..

    It makes me feel old and sad at the same time.. lol Damn you father time ..


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    Default Re: Donnie Walsh: "We have to go up a level"

    Quote Originally Posted by MillerTime View Post
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    10 am - 6pm is 8 hours....just sayin
    That is maybe why they couldn't bid on Brand or Scola the office was closed

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    Default Re: Donnie Walsh: "We have to go up a level"

    Quote Originally Posted by docpaul View Post
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    I can definitely see the rationale behind using the retrospect-o-scope to be critical of previous moves that didn't work out. I can definitely see the value in praising moves that did work out. But what I can't understand is trying to prejudge moves before they've even had a chance to play themselves out.
    I state my opinion before things fail so I cant get the "hindsight defense" after the totally unforseeable circumstance occurs. Plus its much more fun to argue what hasnt occured yet.


    Quote Originally Posted by docpaul View Post
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    But so much of what is creating the red meat around here is based on supposition, and frustration with the FO on "not making better moves". Can we start having a discussion on specifics? Who would have been a better move? Why? Why were our moves so terrible?
    Fair statement. I havent said much about the moves this offseason. This is largely because, IMO, the team erred a few years ago more than they have this offseason. The best chance for this team to add a top level talent was through the draft - not free agency or trades. Of course at that point I was constantly told that tanking was not the way to build a team. Many of the same people that are now saying the Pacers did everything they could this offseason were saying that they just needed to become a good team with cap space and then they could sign difference makers instead of drafting them. Of course I knew that wasnt the case. So now everyone states how hard it is to get difference makers and state TPTB are doing everything they can. Seriously, look at some of the posts after yours stating that you only find players like that in the draft or that people arent giving good players away. And people are thanking the posts. No ****, its hard to get those type of players. Thats why they should have used the time they sucked to acquire higher picks instead of playing Murphy, Dun, and DG 36+ mins a night at the end of meaningless seasons. Now what I see is a team that will be stuck below championship level. Yes the team is only a player or two away. the problem is that they are missing the hardest piece to acquire. If they didnt acquire that player in the draft and they cant get him in free agency, where are they going to get him? IMO, trades are by far the hardest route to go. They have a much higher cost than the draft or free agency. In the best case scenario, the Pacers would have to gut the team to equal enough talent to get a deal done. The reality is they will lack the players with the dreaded "P" work that GMs want to see when trading a star. GMs trading a star want draft picks and high potential guys. Drafting Tyler Hansbrough and Plumlee over guys like Holiday and PJ3 have left the roster pretty thin on those type of players. PG and Lance are the only guys that match that description.


    Here is my stance on the moves they did make this offseason:

    - re-signing Roy: He isnt worth the max, but with the current team philosophy he had to be matched.
    - re-signing Hill: Mistake. contract is too much for too long. The Pacers should have let him sign an offer sheet and decided from there.
    - trading for Mahinmi: I'm fine with the acquistion, but I dont see the need for the trade. The team gave away DC unnecessarily. I dont even like his game, but he had more value than they got. Mahinmi should have been a straight FA signing.
    - signing Green: I have no problem with it. Good move.
    - signing Augustin: Whatever. I dont really like his game, but its a one year contract.

    But, as I said, the team missed the boat several years ago. IMO, they have very little oppurtunity to change the course now - at least with the current TPTB. For me it feels like I'm trying to read a book that I already know the ending to.



    Quote Originally Posted by docpaul View Post
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    Isn't it even remotely possible, that one or more of the players on our active roster develop into our go-to scorer?
    IMO, no. DG, PG, and Green lack the handle necessary to fill the role. PG is much closer to McKey than he is to McGrady - even though few want to admit it yet. Roy is completly dependent on a point guard that can get him the ball consistantly. Hill is a good backup. West couldn't hold his position in the playoffs against a small forward. Augustin is pretty bad offensively. Hans, Plum, Mahinmi? uhhh - no. Lance is the only one that may have a shot. So far he hasnt been able to show us anything so you can say Im very skeptical that he will turn into that level of player.
    Last edited by rm1369; 07-24-2012 at 09:05 PM.

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  16. #111
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    Default Re: Donnie Walsh: "We have to go up a level"

    Quote Originally Posted by MillerTime View Post
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    10 am - 6pm is 8 hours....just sayin
    lol you right.. it's that damn fuzzy math Bush often spoke of.. haha
    Quote Originally Posted by naptownmenace View Post
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    Plumlee reminds me of a young Dale Davis. Good rebounding and he contests shots well on defense and his offensive game is very raw just like DD's was coming out of college.
    "If my answers frighten you, then you should cease asking scary questions."

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    Default Re: Donnie Walsh: "We have to go up a level"

    Quote Originally Posted by pacer4ever View Post
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    The other thing about Melo trading for AI was a terrible idea. Allen Iverson and Melo are way to ball dominate they are actually pretty close to the same player especially considering AI was on the downside of his career. If that is what Donnie means by not chasing a name player than I get it but we dont have the name player to build around. All 3 of those guys were dampener by poor management same with LBJ in Cleveland.

    If Cleveland hadn't ****ed up the draft so many times and got LBJ a great compliment around him he would still be a CAV IMO.




    Aldridge is basically untouchable especially for Danny and West that makes 0 sense for Portland who is rebuilding

    Batum and Aldridge>>>> West and Danny especially for a rebuilding team who has a great PnR pg.
    I doubt it unless Wade and Bosh wanted to join Cleveland with him. He, Wade, and Tag Along planned this out way before Cleveland had the chance to make more horrible draft picks.

  18. #113
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    Default Re: Donnie Walsh: "We have to go up a level"

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    Like having their center injured didn't have anything to do with that, take Roy out and the Pacers are out of the playoffs.
    So...

    Your contention was that DWill could DWill his team to a better record than the Pacers with a bunch of scrubs...
    Nothing in life worth having comes easy.

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    Default Re: Donnie Walsh: "We have to go up a level"

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    Melo was injured last year, Amare was injured, Lin got injured, Baron Davis had a freak injury and was not 100% all year, Dwill was injured, Brook Lopez was out of the year, etc,etc,etc, the Pacers were just lucky not to have one of their core players injured or out for the year so yeah seriously...
    And the Knicks played their best ball of the season without Carmelo and Amare...

    And it's not like the Nets had a fantastic record with DWill playing vs. their record when he wasn't...

    Again... You said Melo and DWill could win better than the Pacers with a bunch of scrubs surrounding them... Those injuries to their teammates only better proves that your original statement was incorrect...
    Nothing in life worth having comes easy.

  20. #115

    Default Re: Donnie Walsh: "We have to go up a level"

    Quote Originally Posted by rabidpacersfan View Post
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    When you start off your post by basically calling anyone who might disagree with you ignorant and/or a homer, it pretty much cancels out anything else you have to say. Just sayin.
    After reading all of the condecending posts to vnzla81 and others that arent just thrilled with the direction of the team, I dont really care. Hell, a couple posts above yours someone again suggested we root for another team. Dont be so thin skinned.

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  22. #116

    Default Re: Donnie Walsh: "We have to go up a level"

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    First of all you turn a lot of people off when you suggest some of us have blue and gold glasses on. Honestly with me that taints everything you say after that. You are implying that some of us are not able to see the team as it really is.
    See my previous post

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    So do you really think they aren't trrying or willing to upgrade the starters. Of course they are. Come on, think about it. The problem is it is very difficult to upgrade these starters. It is very, very difficult to acquire a player better than Roy, David or Danny. Upgrading the bench is easy so do that first. This team has not been together for very long, a shortened season. lets not gamble and make a bad trade, lets not gamble (make a potentially bad trade) right now. lets see how good this team can be with a full season and with a better bench. I think that is at the very least a reasonable approach. But yes they are always trying to upgrade the starters. I mean do we really have to state that.
    I think they would upgrade the starters as long it was a no risk move - like signing West. Will they take any chances? No. You want to see where this current group can go and thats fine. I'm pretty certain I know. I have no choice but to wait and see if I'm right. But I can look at the past 25 NBA champs and see only one looks even remotely like this team - and I personally believe they were significantly more talented. I know that you yourself say that you have to have one of the top players to win a title. The Pacers dont. Do I expect them to rectify that this off season? Of course not. They missed the boat at even that remote chance when they wouldnt sacrifice a few meaningless regular season wins for a chance at a much higher pick during the down years.

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    OK, so the Colts get lucky, I mean as lucky as any franchise since the Spurs drafted Duncan and you are suggesting the pacers should try to be so lucky. How do you do that?
    The Spurs are the small market team that everyone points to as the proof that you dont have to be a destination city to win an NBA title. Who else would you attempt to emulate? For all of their smart managment, their biggest piece was acquired through tanking. It certainly wasnt deliberate at first, but they didnt rush D Robinson back either. Is it a long shot? sure. But I'd say you have a better chance at emaulating them than you do at recreating the Pistons team.

    The Colts were certainly lucky. Lucky they didnt win too many games. IMO, where they beat the Pacers is in their willingness to sacrifice short term stability for long term gain. Any doubt that they would be better next year if they would have brought back Manning, Saturday, Clark, etc? No way in hell the Pacers would make a similiar decission.

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    Default Re: Donnie Walsh: "We have to go up a level"

    All we need to do is get Monte and Josh Smith and we can set back and watch the championships roll in.
    "Just look at the flowers ........ BANG"

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    Default Re: Donnie Walsh: "We have to go up a level"

    Quote Originally Posted by rm1369 View Post
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    After reading all of the condecending posts to vnzla81 and others that arent just thrilled with the direction of the team, I dont really care. Hell, a couple posts above yours someone again suggested we root for another team. Dont be so thin skinned.
    Maybe both sides / everybody can work harder at not being bossy or condescending or otherwise off-putting? Can we try to remember that at the end of the day it's just a bunch of good people wanting to enjoy a basketball team and that keeping things a little more lighthearted is probably more important than putting anyone in their place? I think everyone would appreciate it if both sides of this could keep that in mind.


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  28. #119

    Default Re: Donnie Walsh: "We have to go up a level"

    [QUOTE=Kemo;1487495]

    For a 71 year old especially, I think 9 hour days IS most definitely workaholic characteristics.. Especially considering the hours he put in when he was younger..QUOTE]


    I don't doubt Walsh is a hard worker, but you think Walsh is working a solid 9 hours? He doesn't take a lunch? Working 8-9 hours a day at the 71 years young doesn't constitute a workaholic. I know farmers older than Walsh whose days start at dawn and work to dusk. They consider the hours Walsh works BANKERS HOURS!

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    Default Re: Donnie Walsh: "We have to go up a level"

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    That is maybe why they couldn't bid on Brand or Scola the office was closed
    If I ever get a FO job you will see a work addict. I probablly would sleep on the sofa in the office. I would work 12 to 16 hrs a day. Mostly watching college and international tape when the others are home

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    Default Re: Donnie Walsh: "We have to go up a level"

    Bankers hours, haha!

  32. #122
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    Default Re: Donnie Walsh: "We have to go up a level"

    Donnie did a great job with the foundational process of building a long-term winner.

    It was the underwhelming "over the top" moves that never seemed to work out (Ricky Pierce, Eddie Johnson, Mullin, Bender, Steven Jackson) where he fell short. Or the infinitely doable "over the top" moves that could have really mattered such as Derek Harper during the 94/95 run or Barkley during the 98/99 run.

  33. #123
    George Hill Apologist mattie's Avatar
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    Default Re: Donnie Walsh: "We have to go up a level"

    Quote Originally Posted by rm1369 View Post
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    West couldn't hold his position in the playoffs against a small forward.
    Seriously folks, I do not want to keep criticizing West. West is truly one of my favorite players. I really like the guy because he's a real smart guy and an inspiration. I've read his interviews and it's made me really appreciate him.

    But I have to keep repeating this until Pacers fans realize this.

    As rm1369 said above (thank God, finally I'm not the only one saying this) David West got SHUT DOWN by Shane Battier! A small forward! A BACKUP small forward! It'd be one thing if West got shutdown because Miami was forced to put LBJ on him, probably the most talented and best defender the NBA will ever see. But no, that didn't happen. He got shut down by Battier.

    It'd be one thing if we didn't care about West's scoring. If he was bringing so much more to the table to help this team win. To prove why he deserves that 10m a year contract.

    If West was Serge Ibaka? We wouldn't give a **** if they left Mike Miller on him. Why? Because on defense he'd grab at least 10 rebounds and he'd be throwing shots left and right. But wait, that's right, West can't block shots! Or Rebound! Or play particularly good defense!!

    Oh but, that's right, the reason West is so integral to this teams success is his "leadership."

    Someone for the love of bacon please tell me how West's supposed leadership makes up for the fact that he can't defend or rebound? Or score unless he happens to have a real good matchup? Seriously?

    I've written this critique of his game in a particularly unflattering way. I'm sorry I had to write it that way. It's only because people have to realize that at the end of the day, basketball is about talent and skill. Not mythical intangibles. One of the true weaknesses on this team is at PF. This is alarming because not only is West one of the Pacer's highest paid players, I am extremely confident they have absolutely no qualms with giving him a long term contract after this season.

    Edit - At the risk of giving you guys an extremely poor argument, I'd like to point out what I think West has actually brought to this team and why at least temporarily, West truly helped this team. Before last season this team was extremely inexperienced and had no concept on how to win. West brought a level of toughness and leadership that was sorely needed. He really helped this team quickly grow up. That was needed. Temporarily. But not anymore. This team DOES no how to win. They do know how to play tough, score the ball, and they have the confidence to beat anyone. So you know what they need from West now? Performance! Rebounding, Defense, protecting the rim! West's leadership is a nice addition, but that sort of leadership is easily replaced. I think Hill provides much of the same qualities. This team desperately needs to have a front line that can punish opposing teams.

    I'll give you an example of a team that can absolutely destroy any other team in the NBA with it's front court. The Memphis Grizzlies. They have a starting center that is Roy Hibbert's equal in almost every way. They also have a guy at powerforward that no NBA analyst would consider a "great leader." But we all know what Zach Randolph can do when healthy to an opposing teams front line. Which is more important folks? Zach Randolphs dominance or West's "leadership"?

    We all know the answer to that.

    Stop referring to West as this teams MVP. Stop making him out to be some hero he's not. We desperately needed leadership and someone who could play the PF position better than Hands Bro, who's probably the worst PF in the NBA. That doesn't mean West is a stud. It means he filled a temporary need, and he's replacable.
    Last edited by mattie; 07-25-2012 at 07:37 AM.
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  35. #124
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    Default Re: Donnie Walsh: "We have to go up a level"

    One last point- argue all you want about West and how great he is. Fine. Ok. Sweet, whatever I'll eventually just have to give it up. But for ****s sake stop saying he's this teams "Dale Davis." Seriously?

    West can't hold a candle to Dale Davis' abilities. Dale Davis could defend ANY PF in the NBA. He was also one of the best rebounders in the NBA. So NO, West isn't in the same ballpark as Dale Davis. Sorry. Just stop it.
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    Default Re: Donnie Walsh: "We have to go up a level"

    Quote Originally Posted by mattie View Post
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    West's leadership is a nice addition, but that sort of leadership is easily replaced.
    Here is where you and I completely disagree. I can see your point otherwise, although, I think you go too far to underplay his impact on the court from strictly an ability/performance standpoint, but its at least a fair argument/discussion. I just completely disagree that the toughness/leadership/intangibles he brings to the table are easily replaced. His prescence ,as part of the team ,is huge, imo, with not many guys who could fill that void, in the league.

    I've watched both extremes with this team over the years, where you had a team of pros, pros and later a team of rudderless apathetic boneheads. Its such a big deal and impacts the w/l column more than any block shots stat from your PF position ever will.
    Last edited by Speed; 07-25-2012 at 07:44 AM.

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