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Rule #1

Pacers Digest is intended to be a place to discuss basketball without having to deal with the kinds of behaviors or attitudes that distract people from sticking with the discussion of the topics at hand. These unwanted distractions can come in many forms, and admittedly it can sometimes be tricky to pin down each and every kind that can rear its ugly head, but we feel that the following examples and explanations cover at least a good portion of that ground and should at least give people a pretty good idea of the kinds of things we actively discourage:

"Anyone who __________ is a liar / a fool / an idiot / a blind homer / has their head buried in the sand / a blind hater / doesn't know basketball / doesn't watch the games"

"People with intelligence will agree with me when I say that __________"

"Only stupid people think / believe / do ___________"

"I can't wait to hear something from PosterX when he/she sees that **insert a given incident or current event that will have probably upset or disappointed PosterX here**"

"He/she is just delusional"

"This thread is stupid / worthless / embarrassing"

"I'm going to take a moment to point and / laugh at PosterX / GroupOfPeopleY who thought / believed *insert though/belief here*"

"Remember when PosterX said OldCommentY that no longer looks good? "

In general, if a comment goes from purely on topic to something 'ad hominem' (personal jabs, personal shots, attacks, flames, however you want to call it, towards a person, or a group of people, or a given city/state/country of people), those are most likely going to be found intolerable.

We also dissuade passive aggressive behavior. This can be various things, but common examples include statements that are basically meant to imply someone is either stupid or otherwise incapable of holding a rational conversation. This can include (but is not limited to) laughing at someone's conclusions rather than offering an honest rebuttal, asking people what game they were watching, or another common problem is Poster X will say "that player isn't that bad" and then Poster Y will say something akin to "LOL you think that player is good". We're not going to tolerate those kinds of comments out of respect for the community at large and for the sake of trying to just have an honest conversation.

Now, does the above cover absolutely every single kind of distraction that is unwanted? Probably not, but you should by now have a good idea of the general types of things we will be discouraging. The above examples are meant to give you a good feel for / idea of what we're looking for. If something new or different than the above happens to come along and results in the same problem (that being, any other attitude or behavior that ultimately distracts from actually just discussing the topic at hand, or that is otherwise disrespectful to other posters), we can and we will take action to curb this as well, so please don't take this to mean that if you managed to technically avoid saying something exactly like one of the above examples that you are then somehow off the hook.

That all having been said, our goal is to do so in a generally kind and respectful way, and that doesn't mean the moment we see something we don't like that somebody is going to be suspended or banned, either. It just means that at the very least we will probably say something about it, quite possibly snipping out the distracting parts of the post in question while leaving alone the parts that are actually just discussing the topics, and in the event of a repeating or excessive problem, then we will start issuing infractions to try to further discourage further repeat problems, and if it just never seems to improve, then finally suspensions or bans will come into play. We would prefer it never went that far, and most of the time for most of our posters, it won't ever have to.

A slip up every once and a while is pretty normal, but, again, when it becomes repetitive or excessive, something will be done. Something occasional is probably going to be let go (within reason), but when it starts to become habitual or otherwise a pattern, odds are very good that we will step in.

There's always a small minority that like to push people's buttons and/or test their own boundaries with regards to the administrators, and in the case of someone acting like that, please be aware that this is not a court of law, but a private website run by people who are simply trying to do the right thing as they see it. If we feel that you are a special case that needs to be dealt with in an exceptional way because your behavior isn't explicitly mirroring one of our above examples of what we generally discourage, we can and we will take atypical action to prevent this from continuing if you are not cooperative with us.

Also please be aware that you will not be given a pass simply by claiming that you were 'only joking,' because quite honestly, when someone really is just joking, for one thing most people tend to pick up on the joke, including the person or group that is the target of the joke, and for another thing, in the event where an honest joke gets taken seriously and it upsets or angers someone, the person who is truly 'only joking' will quite commonly go out of his / her way to apologize and will try to mend fences. People who are dishonest about their statements being 'jokes' do not do so, and in turn that becomes a clear sign of what is really going on. It's nothing new.

In any case, quite frankly, the overall quality and health of the entire forum's community is more important than any one troublesome user will ever be, regardless of exactly how a problem is exhibiting itself, and if it comes down to us having to make a choice between you versus the greater health and happiness of the entire community, the community of this forum will win every time.

Lastly, there are also some posters, who are generally great contributors and do not otherwise cause any problems, who sometimes feel it's their place to provoke or to otherwise 'mess with' that small minority of people described in the last paragraph, and while we possibly might understand why you might feel you WANT to do something like that, the truth is we can't actually tolerate that kind of behavior from you any more than we can tolerate the behavior from them. So if we feel that you are trying to provoke those other posters into doing or saying something that will get themselves into trouble, then we will start to view you as a problem as well, because of the same reason as before: The overall health of the forum comes first, and trying to stir the pot with someone like that doesn't help, it just makes it worse. Some will simply disagree with this philosophy, but if so, then so be it because ultimately we have to do what we think is best so long as it's up to us.

If you see a problem that we haven't addressed, the best and most appropriate course for a forum member to take here is to look over to the left of the post in question. See underneath that poster's name, avatar, and other info, down where there's a little triangle with an exclamation point (!) in it? Click that. That allows you to report the post to the admins so we can definitely notice it and give it a look to see what we feel we should do about it. Beyond that, obviously it's human nature sometimes to want to speak up to the poster in question who has bothered you, but we would ask that you try to refrain from doing so because quite often what happens is two or more posters all start going back and forth about the original offending post, and suddenly the entire thread is off topic or otherwise derailed. So while the urge to police it yourself is understandable, it's best to just report it to us and let us handle it. Thank you!

All of the above is going to be subject to a case by case basis, but generally and broadly speaking, this should give everyone a pretty good idea of how things will typically / most often be handled.

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If this is done the wrong way, those comments will be deleted, and if it's a repeating problem then it may also receive an infraction as well.

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Donnie Walsh: "We have to go up a level"

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  • #76
    Re: Donnie Walsh: "We have to go up a level"

    Originally posted by vnzla81 View Post
    I would not say an scorer but a better all around player that is young like Josh Smith maybe and if you want an scorer you already know who I want
    I don't think adding Josh Smith for Granger would work. I'm not 100% sure if it'd work if we traded him for West. If we lost one of those guys, we would lack a consistent scoring threat. (Josh smith IS a lot of things, but consistent scorer he is NOT)

    HOWEVER

    I KNOW I'm in the minority..But I actually agree with you in that if we were to trade DG for Monta Ellis straight up, we would be a much more complete team. He would give us the one-on-one scorer we've sorely lacked, and we would give him the balanced team that he's always lacked. Win-win right there. lol but thats an argument for another day!

    Comment


    • #77
      Re: Donnie Walsh: "We have to go up a level"

      Originally posted by mattie View Post
      I truly do think the Pacers could deal both West and Granger together to bring in a core piece they could help build around. A top five player? No. But someone with very good to great scoring ability? Yes.
      You do realize that replacing West and Granger would require a player who would average 31 pts./12 rebs/4 assts? Not too many of those around.

      On the other hand, maybe Miami would take those 2 in return for Lebron? They probably would but since Vogel doesn't want to change his starting 5 and Donnie Walsh doesn't want to win a championship - he only wants to make the playoffs - then this idea never even came up...
      "The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results."
      - Benjamin Franklin

      Comment


      • #78
        Re: Donnie Walsh: "We have to go up a level"

        Originally posted by vnzla81 View Post
        David West didn't win s*** in his prime when he played with CP3 and Tyson Chandler, what makes you think this time around he is going to help the pacers win a title?

        Give me Dwill, Howard or Melo any day.
        How many championships have DWill, Howard and Melo won again?

        Comment


        • #79
          Re: Donnie Walsh: "We have to go up a level"

          Originally posted by pacerDU View Post
          How many championships have DWill, Howard and Melo won again?
          Melo and Howard both took their team to a conference finals. DWill had a nice run with Utah until Boozer left you need a supporting cast.


          Dwight took his team to the finals and w/o him they weren't even a 30 win team.

          Comment


          • #80
            Re: Donnie Walsh: "We have to go up a level"

            Originally posted by vnzla81 View Post
            David West didn't win s*** in his prime when he played with CP3 and Tyson Chandler, what makes you think this time around he is going to help the pacers win a title?

            Give me Dwill, Howard or Melo any day.

            You are better than that. You kill David West for not winning, then reference three guys who haven't won either?

            Comment


            • #81
              Re: Donnie Walsh: "We have to go up a level"

              So how do we get Melo and Howard?

              Comment


              • #82
                Re: Donnie Walsh: "We have to go up a level"

                I have no fantasy that the Pacers are going to get a star, but I would like an upgrade in the starters. I voiced my opinion last offseason that the Pacers needed a b/u C, and the Pacers got one this off season by acquiring Mahinmi. It's not that I have anything against Mahinmi, I just didn't like the guaranteed length of the contract. I was in favor of signing Green, but again I don't like the guaranteed contract. I fault the FO for this, and consider it poor judgement.

                I also fault the FO with poor judgement by not letting Hill test FA and signing him so quickly. I said b4 that the FO overpaid for Hill. Again, I have no problem with re-signing Hill, but if they had let him test FA they would have been under the cap in order to bid on amnestied players.

                I have no problem with strengthening the bench, b/c it was a weakness that need attending too. It could have been strengthened much more if they hadn't let the opportunity slip thru their grasp to get Brand/Scola at a bargain deal.

                Walsh is absolutel correct that certain teams have gotten better which means it's going to be extremely difficult if not downright impossible for the Pacers to have the success they had last year in the standings. Walsh mentioned other players possibly being available later on in the off season, but the Pacers only have the 2.5 mil exemption left to use on a player. What is that truly going to get the Pacers that will make a difference in the rotation? That was just a Walsh spin job trying to placate many unhappy fans, b/c he knows the FO moves have been viewed by many as poor judgements and bungled opportunities.

                Comment


                • #83
                  Re: Donnie Walsh: "We have to go up a level"

                  Originally posted by vnzla81 View Post
                  With the way the cap is setup and the money players are making I expect this starting five to be the starting five in a long time, I expect them to re-sign West and Danny and keep going the way it is.
                  I don't think that will necessarily happen. I think that one could be traded. Possibly trade one for a high draft pick.
                  Truly a gamble. See Bender. However there are not too many ways to bring in a difference maker.
                  I hope Danny has a good year.
                  {o,o}
                  |)__)
                  -"-"-

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                  • #84
                    Re: Donnie Walsh: "We have to go up a level"

                    Originally posted by pacer4ever View Post
                    Melo and Howard both took their team to a conference finals. DWill had a nice run with Utah until Boozer left you need a supporting cast.


                    Dwight took his team to the finals and w/o him they weren't even a 30 win team.
                    Yeah but they are not as good as Danny or West lol
                    @WhatTheFFacts: Studies show that sarcasm enhances the ability of the human mind to solve complex problems!

                    Comment


                    • #85
                      Re: Donnie Walsh: "We have to go up a level"

                      Originally posted by pacerDU View Post
                      How many championships have DWill, Howard and Melo won again?
                      As many as the Pacers? those guys by themself with a bunch of scrubs have a better chance to get to the finals than this current Pacers team.
                      @WhatTheFFacts: Studies show that sarcasm enhances the ability of the human mind to solve complex problems!

                      Comment


                      • #86
                        Re: Donnie Walsh: "We have to go up a level"

                        Originally posted by pacer4ever View Post
                        Melo and Howard both took their team to a conference finals. DWill had a nice run with Utah until Boozer left you need a supporting cast.
                        ...and this is precisely what many of us are saying. How do you get one of those players without giving up your entire supporting cast? For us to get one of the guys you mentioned, we'd have to gut our team. What we're left with is one good player with a bunch of spare pieces around him, with little flexibility. You very likely will end up with a worse team at the end of it.

                        To get one of those guys you either have to draft them, have them want to play for you over anyone else, or as mentioned - gut your team. Where was our option to get one of these guys and still remain competitive?

                        Comment


                        • #87
                          Re: Donnie Walsh: "We have to go up a level"

                          Originally posted by vnzla81 View Post
                          those guys by themself with a bunch of scrubs have a better chance to get to the finals than this current Pacers team.
                          You mean like the Nets last year?

                          We'll have to agree to disagree on that.

                          Comment


                          • #88
                            Re: Donnie Walsh: "We have to go up a level"

                            Ahhh..... Walsh Warriors. This takes me back.


                            Basketball isn't played with computers, spreadsheets, and simulations. ChicagoJ 4/21/13

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                            • #89
                              Re: Donnie Walsh: "We have to go up a level"

                              Originally posted by DrFife View Post
                              Let the speculation begin.


                              http://www.indystar.com/article/2012...after-year-R-R


                              Pacers president Donnie Walsh refreshed after a year of R&R


                              Donnie Walsh didn't have to return to an NBA front office position. Now 71, he spent last year relaxing at his Indianapolis home with his wife and dogs.

                              At the same time, Walsh wasn't going to turn down an opportunity if the right situation arose.

                              That opportunity came late last month when Indiana Pacers owner Herb Simon needed to replace team President Larry Bird.

                              Simon could have gone outside the organization, but he puts a premium on trust. That's why he turned to Walsh, who spent 24 years with the Pacers before leaving in 2008 to become president of the New York Knicks.

                              "People used to call me up and say, 'You must want to get back in.' I really didn't want to," Walsh said recently from his office at Bankers Life Fieldhouse. "I enjoyed doing nothing. I did it very well. Me coming back here really happened very fast."

                              Walsh, who has made a flurry of moves in his first month on the job, offered opinions on a variety of subjects.

                              Question: Was there any hesitation in coming back?

                              Answer: "No, not at all. The minute Herb asked me, I told him I'll come back. We didn't discuss terms or anything like that. We'll always have a handshake agreement. I had to talk to Larry first. He told me he was going to go away for a year. I told him, 'I'll be here, and whenever you want to come back, you come back.' I want him to come back."

                              Q: How much did you miss the NBA last season?

                              A: "I had done this for almost 30 years straight with no break. It wears you down, so most of the year I was glad I was off because I hadn't been off before. I really felt like it cleared up my head. You can get worn down with this, so when I came back, I was feeling fresher. I remember coming in the door and thinking, 'What am I doing here?' But once I got in the groove, I got into it again."

                              Q: Are you the same workaholic as before?

                              A: "Oh yeah. I'm going to do it the same. I just may not be in as early and not as late as before. I get in around 10 a.m. and stay until about 6 p.m."

                              Q: Most front office people bring in their own personnel. But it was pretty obvious that general manager Kevin Pritchard would be elevated in the front office. How much did you know about him before this?

                              A: "I had dinner with Kevin when I first came back. I really didn't know him when I came in. Larry had already recommended him to Herb, (former general manager) David Morway was already gone, so when I walked in here, I knew he was going to be here. I've really enjoyed working with him. He's exactly the kind of guy I want to work with. I still make some calls, but he's really good at working the phones. I think sharing ideas -- he's been a general manager before -- is great. The way I see myself doing the job now, he's a perfect fit for me. I've got confidence in him. He's somebody I really enjoy talking about basketball with him."

                              Q: How is the franchise different from when you left in 2008?

                              A: "It's rebuilt. Not all the way, but it's getting there. They have a very good starting team. I think the feeling was when I got here we needed to strengthen our bench. If nothing else, getting positions we didn't have that were missing. I think we've done that. We had to make that trade (with Dallas) to get a big guy. Then we had to get a point guard to replace (Darren) Collison."

                              Q: Training camp is still about two months away. Are you happy with the way the roster looks today?

                              A: "We're going to spend the rest of the summer looking to see if there's anything else we can do. The reason is, you have to look at the other teams. I think New York is going to be better. Miami is going to be better. Miami ended up developing into a team. That's why they won the title last season. Brooklyn is going to be better. We have to go up a level. This team has taken a step each of the past two years. This team is together. They are really committed to trying to become a contending team.

                              Q: What other areas do you need to address on the roster?

                              A: "I don't want to get into it because I don't want to point fingers at any one position. I think we may be shy in a couple of areas. As you get closer to training camp, there are going to be players left out that are good. You want to be ready to get one of them."

                              Q: You wouldn't think this franchise made it to the second round of the playoffs last season with the way fans have questioned some of your decisions so far. What's your reaction to the criticism?

                              A: "I would tell them what I told them when I went through it the first time, and that is, 'Don't make judgments today based on what you think; wait until you see the team play.' I said that about Chuck Person and Reggie Miller. I notice a reaction right away when fans don't like something. Give it a chance, because I think we have the makings of a good team. That's the object. The object is not to get names you hear every day. It's about getting better. The one thing you don't want to do is mess up the strength of a team. The strength of this team is they all get along, they all play hard, they play together."
                              Workaholic????????? I would love those hours and be considered a workaholic
                              "So, which one of you guys is going to come in second?" - Larry Bird before the 3 point contest. He won.


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                              • #90
                                Re: Donnie Walsh: "We have to go up a level"

                                The problem with Walsh's 'success' in the 90's was that it was as much in spite of as because of him...
                                Nuntius was right for a while. I was wrong for a while. But ultimately I was right and Frank Vogel has been let go.

                                ------

                                "A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, that’s teamwork."

                                -John Wooden

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