Carmelo has advanced past the first round ONCE in nine seasons.
Howard played in one NBA Finals- as many as the Pacers have. The Magic have regressed every year since 2009.
The Pacers are a better team than any of the teams for which Howard, Williams, and Anthony play.
The Pacers were lucky with their health, but your crusade to minimize all of their accomplishments is silly. Injuries happen every year in the NBA. Every year you can make this argument about a slew of teams. It's the nature of the beast.
Here is my stance on the moves they did make this offseason:
- re-signing Roy: He isnt worth the max, but with the current team philosophy he had to be matched.
- re-signing Hill: Mistake. contract is too much for too long. The Pacers should have let him sign an offer sheet and decided from there.
- trading for Mahinmi: I'm fine with the acquistion, but I dont see the need for the trade. The team gave away DC unnecessarily. I dont even like his game, but he had more value than they got. Mahinmi should have been a straight FA signing.
- signing Green: I have no problem with it. Good move.
- signing Augustin: Whatever. I dont really like his game, but its a one year contract.
But, as I said, the team missed the boat several years ago. IMO, they have very little oppurtunity to change the course now - at least with the current TPTB. For me it feels like I'm trying to read a book that I already know the ending to.
Last edited by rm1369; 07-24-2012 at 09:05 PM.
"They want to be famous. We want to be champions. They want to be rappers and backup dancers. We want to play football." - T.J. Ward, Denver Broncos
Nothing in life worth having comes easy.
And it's not like the Nets had a fantastic record with DWill playing vs. their record when he wasn't...
Again... You said Melo and DWill could win better than the Pacers with a bunch of scrubs surrounding them... Those injuries to their teammates only better proves that your original statement was incorrect...
Nothing in life worth having comes easy.
See my previous post
I think they would upgrade the starters as long it was a no risk move - like signing West. Will they take any chances? No. You want to see where this current group can go and thats fine. I'm pretty certain I know. I have no choice but to wait and see if I'm right. But I can look at the past 25 NBA champs and see only one looks even remotely like this team - and I personally believe they were significantly more talented. I know that you yourself say that you have to have one of the top players to win a title. The Pacers dont. Do I expect them to rectify that this off season? Of course not. They missed the boat at even that remote chance when they wouldnt sacrifice a few meaningless regular season wins for a chance at a much higher pick during the down years.
The Spurs are the small market team that everyone points to as the proof that you dont have to be a destination city to win an NBA title. Who else would you attempt to emulate? For all of their smart managment, their biggest piece was acquired through tanking. It certainly wasnt deliberate at first, but they didnt rush D Robinson back either. Is it a long shot? sure. But I'd say you have a better chance at emaulating them than you do at recreating the Pistons team.
The Colts were certainly lucky. Lucky they didnt win too many games. IMO, where they beat the Pacers is in their willingness to sacrifice short term stability for long term gain. Any doubt that they would be better next year if they would have brought back Manning, Saturday, Clark, etc? No way in hell the Pacers would make a similiar decission.
All we need to do is get Monte and Josh Smith and we can set back and watch the championships roll in.
"Just look at the flowers ........ BANG"
For a 71 year old especially, I think 9 hour days IS most definitely workaholic characteristics.. Especially considering the hours he put in when he was younger..QUOTE]
I don't doubt Walsh is a hard worker, but you think Walsh is working a solid 9 hours? He doesn't take a lunch? Working 8-9 hours a day at the 71 years young doesn't constitute a workaholic. I know farmers older than Walsh whose days start at dawn and work to dusk. They consider the hours Walsh works BANKERS HOURS!
Bankers hours, haha!
Donnie did a great job with the foundational process of building a long-term winner.
It was the underwhelming "over the top" moves that never seemed to work out (Ricky Pierce, Eddie Johnson, Mullin, Bender, Steven Jackson) where he fell short. Or the infinitely doable "over the top" moves that could have really mattered such as Derek Harper during the 94/95 run or Barkley during the 98/99 run.
But I have to keep repeating this until Pacers fans realize this.
As rm1369 said above (thank God, finally I'm not the only one saying this) David West got SHUT DOWN by Shane Battier! A small forward! A BACKUP small forward! It'd be one thing if West got shutdown because Miami was forced to put LBJ on him, probably the most talented and best defender the NBA will ever see. But no, that didn't happen. He got shut down by Battier.
It'd be one thing if we didn't care about West's scoring. If he was bringing so much more to the table to help this team win. To prove why he deserves that 10m a year contract.
If West was Serge Ibaka? We wouldn't give a **** if they left Mike Miller on him. Why? Because on defense he'd grab at least 10 rebounds and he'd be throwing shots left and right. But wait, that's right, West can't block shots! Or Rebound! Or play particularly good defense!!
Oh but, that's right, the reason West is so integral to this teams success is his "leadership."
Someone for the love of bacon please tell me how West's supposed leadership makes up for the fact that he can't defend or rebound? Or score unless he happens to have a real good matchup? Seriously?
I've written this critique of his game in a particularly unflattering way. I'm sorry I had to write it that way. It's only because people have to realize that at the end of the day, basketball is about talent and skill. Not mythical intangibles. One of the true weaknesses on this team is at PF. This is alarming because not only is West one of the Pacer's highest paid players, I am extremely confident they have absolutely no qualms with giving him a long term contract after this season.
Edit - At the risk of giving you guys an extremely poor argument, I'd like to point out what I think West has actually brought to this team and why at least temporarily, West truly helped this team. Before last season this team was extremely inexperienced and had no concept on how to win. West brought a level of toughness and leadership that was sorely needed. He really helped this team quickly grow up. That was needed. Temporarily. But not anymore. This team DOES no how to win. They do know how to play tough, score the ball, and they have the confidence to beat anyone. So you know what they need from West now? Performance! Rebounding, Defense, protecting the rim! West's leadership is a nice addition, but that sort of leadership is easily replaced. I think Hill provides much of the same qualities. This team desperately needs to have a front line that can punish opposing teams.
I'll give you an example of a team that can absolutely destroy any other team in the NBA with it's front court. The Memphis Grizzlies. They have a starting center that is Roy Hibbert's equal in almost every way. They also have a guy at powerforward that no NBA analyst would consider a "great leader." But we all know what Zach Randolph can do when healthy to an opposing teams front line. Which is more important folks? Zach Randolphs dominance or West's "leadership"?
We all know the answer to that.
Stop referring to West as this teams MVP. Stop making him out to be some hero he's not. We desperately needed leadership and someone who could play the PF position better than Hands Bro, who's probably the worst PF in the NBA. That doesn't mean West is a stud. It means he filled a temporary need, and he's replacable.
Last edited by mattie; 07-25-2012 at 07:37 AM.
One last point- argue all you want about West and how great he is. Fine. Ok. Sweet, whatever I'll eventually just have to give it up. But for ****s sake stop saying he's this teams "Dale Davis." Seriously?
West can't hold a candle to Dale Davis' abilities. Dale Davis could defend ANY PF in the NBA. He was also one of the best rebounders in the NBA. So NO, West isn't in the same ballpark as Dale Davis. Sorry. Just stop it.
I've watched both extremes with this team over the years, where you had a team of pros, pros and later a team of rudderless apathetic boneheads. Its such a big deal and impacts the w/l column more than any block shots stat from your PF position ever will.
Last edited by Speed; 07-25-2012 at 07:44 AM.