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Thread: Donnie Walsh: "We have to go up a level"

  1. #26
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    Default Re: Donnie Walsh: "We have to go up a level"

    I'm confused.

    What is it actually that people want? Is it more risk taking? Is it a perception of "going after the stars"?

    Is it simply a championship?

    There are a whole host of strategies that will get a team to a championship. You can complain about a lot, but you can't complain about a "lack of strategy" from the FO. They have a clear one. It's not clear to me, at least, that many teams have been able to collect our specific set of attributes and apply this type of strategy. For example, many people think our team's outcome will be similar to Atlanta. but the Hawks clearly lacked the chemistry that our kids have. Trailblazers got seriously bit by the injury bug, etc.

    Isn't the journey and the process part of the fun of it all?

    There's a lot of chemistry, youth, and talent on this team that simply hasn't played itself out.

    Hopefully, our players have more mental fortitude to believe in their own success than most of the denizens on the forum lately. It's as if they shouldn't even bother?

    Are you all just bored and playing mental gymnastics in the offseason?

    You all are announcing our team's death, when it's just becoming a teenager?

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    Default Re: Donnie Walsh: "We have to go up a level"

    If this team is going to go up another level, it's going to have to come through our guys' internal improvement. George is going to have to take a major leap in production, and other core players like Hibbert and Hill have to continue to get better.

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    Default Re: Donnie Walsh: "We have to go up a level"

    Quote Originally Posted by docpaul View Post
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    I'm confused.

    What is it actually that people want? Is it more risk taking? Is it a perception of "going after the stars"?

    Is it simply a championship?

    There are a whole host of strategies that will get a team to a championship. You can complain about a lot, but you can't complain about a "lack of strategy" from the FO. They have a clear one. It's not clear to me, at least, that many teams have been able to collect our specific set of attributes and apply this type of strategy. For example, many people think our team's outcome will be similar to Atlanta. but the Hawks clearly lacked the chemistry that our kids have. Trailblazers got seriously bit by the injury bug, etc.

    Isn't the journey and the process part of the fun of it all?

    There's a lot of chemistry, youth, and talent on this team that simply hasn't played itself out.

    Hopefully, our players have more mental fortitude to believe in their own success than most of the denizens on the forum lately. It's as if they shouldn't even bother?

    Are you all just bored and playing mental gymnastics in the offseason?

    You all are announcing our team's death, when it's just becoming a teenager?
    I guess we just forgot to put on our blue and gold glasses. Apparently they make every move the team makes, not only the correct one, but the only one possible. I've consistantly heard those wearing them tell me how the GS trade was good ("it had to be done") while a few of us said it would lead to cap hell, heard how Hansbrough was a great pick ("because the Pacers can't gamble on a Holiday type"), how JOB was the only possible option to coach this team (no one else would take it), how the team can't afford any down years (32 wins apparently saved us, but 26 wins would have caused the team to move to LA), how the Pacers have never been players in FA only because they've never had cap space (seems they did this year?), or they are willing to spend, but no one wants to come here (except every quote we heard before and every quote after free agency we hear from TPTB indicates they never tried).

    So you'll have to excuse me for not believing it when I'm told this is a championship level team by that same group. I can clearly see this team is lacking the top level talent and, most importantly, go to guy to win a title. If I heard they were looking for that and I thought they were accumulating pieces to make that happen, I may be excited. But I keep being told they want to upgrade the damn bench. Couple that with the conservative history of the team ( and DW in particular) and I have very little excitement for the upcoming season.

    If people want to start telling me that makes me a bad fan - go ahead. The only reason it pisses me off is because I care about the team. I think they could do more and they sell the city and the team short by hiding behind the small market. This same market just cut arguably the greatest QB in history because it was right for the team long term. And unless the Pacers change their ways, the Colts will continue to expand their domination of the Pacers when it comes to fans. Hell, the Colts, coming off the worst record in the league, are closer to a title than the Pacers are, IMO. When they win another one before the Pacers do, it will finally give TPTB a reason for their apparent inferiority complex.
    Last edited by rm1369; 07-24-2012 at 10:54 PM. Reason: Spelling errors

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    Default Re: Donnie Walsh: "We have to go up a level"

    Quote Originally Posted by rm1369 View Post
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    I guess we just forgot to put on our blue and gold glasses. Apparently they make every move the team make, not only the correct one, but the only one possible. I've consistantly heard those wearing them tell me how the GS trade was good ("it had to be done") while a fewsod us said it would lead to cap helll, heard how Hansbrough was a great pick ("because the Pacers can't gamble on a Holiday type"), how JOB was the only possible option to coach this team (no one else would take it), how the team can't afford any down years (32 wins apparently saved us, but 26 wins would have caused the team to move to LA), how the Pacers have never been players in FA only because they've never had cap space (seems they did this year?), or they are willing to spend, but no one wants to come here (except every quote we heard before and every quote after free agency we hear from TPTB indicates they never tried).

    So you'll have to excuse me for not believing it when I'm told this is a championship level team by that same group. I can clearly see this team is lacking the top level talent and, most importantly, go to guy to win a title. If I heard they were looking for that and I thought they were accumulating pieces to make that happen, I may be excited. But I keep being told they want to upgrade the damn bench. Couple that with the conservative history of the team ( and DW in particular) and I have very little excitement for the upcoming season.

    If people want to start telling me that makes me a bad fan - go ahead. The only reason it pisses me off is because I care about the team. I think they could do more and they sell the city and the team short by hiding behind the small market. This same market just cut arguably the greatest QB in history because it was right for the team long term. And unless the Pacers change their ways, the Colts will continue to expand their domination of the Pacers when it comes to fans. Hell, the Colts, coming off the worst record in the league, are closer to a title than the Pacers are, IMO. When they win another one before the Pacers do, it will finally give TPTB a reason for there apparent inferiority complex.

    Just a thank you is not enough.


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    Default Re: Donnie Walsh: "We have to go up a level"

    Quote Originally Posted by rm1369 View Post
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    So you'll have to excuse me for not believing it when I'm told this is a championship level team by that same group. I can clearly see this team is lacking the top level talent and, most importantly, go to guy to win a title. If I heard they were looking for that and I thought they were accumulating pieces to make that happen, I may be excited. But I keep being told they want to upgrade the damn bench. Couple that with the conservative history of the team ( and DW in particular) and I have very little excitement for the upcoming season.
    I can definitely see the rationale behind using the retrospect-o-scope to be critical of previous moves that didn't work out. I can definitely see the value in praising moves that did work out.

    But what I can't understand is trying to prejudge moves before they've even had a chance to play themselves out.

    I could even understand a line of argument, that was based on an objective review of real data. IE, I looked at Green's play with other teams, and I think he's a terrible fit for our team in the following ways.

    But so much of what is creating the red meat around here is based on supposition, and frustration with the FO on "not making better moves". Can we start having a discussion on specifics? Who would have been a better move? Why? Why were our moves so terrible?

    Isn't it even remotely possible, that one or more of the players on our active roster develop into our go-to scorer?

    This is not about being a "good" or a "bad" fan, it's just about being grounded in the substrate of a real conversation.

    I have real concerns for example, that Hill is being set up in the starting point guard role. He is better suited to be in offensive attack mode, at SG... and can get his own shot if he's allowed to focus on this, both inside and out. He has great defensive chops too, with his impressive wingspan. He over dribbles often in half court sets, and just never really seemed to have chops as a distributor/set up guy. I see him as a starting SG or 1st off the bench player.

    But I can't be too upset about what the FO did about this specfic team deficit during the offseason (although I think his contract was a little too rich for my blood... 7/year would have felt better), as they signed a pure point in DJ Augustine, who has real potential to be a great point in the right system.

    I think Hill is a better 6th man than Collison, and brings a much better defensive presence.

    Shrug, I just want to talk about actual Xs and Os.
    Last edited by docpaul; 07-24-2012 at 01:52 PM.

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    Default Re: Donnie Walsh: "We have to go up a level"

    Quote Originally Posted by rm1369 View Post
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    I can clearly see this team is lacking the top level talent and, most importantly, go to guy to win a title. If I heard they were looking for that and I thought they were accumulating pieces to make that happen, I may be excited. But I keep being told they want to upgrade the damn bench. Couple that with the conservative history of the team ( and DW in particular) and I have very little excitement for the upcoming season.
    It's abundantly obvious that we lack "top level" talent. But it's not THAT simple to acquire these types of players. Sure the Pacers could have tried to go after D-Will and Nash, but I think it was a pipe dream that either of those players come here. We had restricted FA's who are garnering interest from other teams. Sure we could have told them to "wait until we get finished trying to court some of these other players" but that doesn't mean that they would wait. Nor should they. Their agents are informing them to sign for as much money and for as long as possible.

    So instead of focusing our entire off season on trying to acquire players that didn't have any interest in joining the team, the Pacers re-signed their own FA's and look to add other pieces to the bench. I understand that people think these moves were "un-aggressive" but I just don't see a realistic option for the team to make an aggressive move without blowing up the most of the core in order to acquire a "top level talent". (this is what happened with NY and Melo...and we see how that worked out. They aren't any closer to a ring than the Pacers)

    Most top level talent are drafted by their respective teams. Whether its directly (Durant, Westbrook, Love, Rose, Pierce, Wade) or indirectly (CP3 was willing to go to LA to play with Kobe, and then eventually Blake...Bron and Bosh were willing to take less money to play with Wade..D12 wanted to play with D-Will in Brooklyn)

    Everyone says we need a go-to scorer. Okay may be true, but WHERE DO YOU GO TO GET ONE?! There is not a single superstar (cept D12) who is on the trading block. Outside of superstars, there are very few go-to scorers in the league.

    Would it be nice to have one of these players come available and the Pacers, of course. But one of these guys have to become available first. Outside of D-Will and MAYBE Gordon there wasn't anyone in FA that would have filled that void.

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    Default Re: Donnie Walsh: "We have to go up a level"

    Quote Originally Posted by Shade View Post
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    NY actually took a big step backwards by losing Lin. Brooklyn may be better than they were last season, but they were horrible last season. Chicago is a borderline playoff team w/o Rose, and Boston lost Ray Allen and is a year older. I don't see any of these teams leap-frogging the Pacers.
    NY didn't take even a small step backward losing Lin. They traded for a better PG in Felton they knew could play. Brooklyn will be top three or four team in the East with the additions and the return of Lopez. Chicago is not a borderline playoff team. They will easily make the playoffs (probably ahead of the Pacers) with or without Rose. Boston got younger and better with the additions of Lee and Terry and the return of two injured players. Did you not read that Walsh said that Boston would be better this year? I can easily see ALL of these team leap-frogging the Pacers but probably not all. I think the Pacers are a solid five or six seed in the East and perhaps higher if some teams have injuries and they do not..... ... Shift+R improves the quality of this image. CTRL+F5 reloads the whole page.

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    Default Re: Donnie Walsh: "We have to go up a level"

    Quote Originally Posted by Donnie Walsh
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    "I don't want to get into it because I don't want to point fingers at any one position. I think we may be shy in a couple of areas. As you get closer to training camp, there are going to be players left out that are good. You want to be ready to get one of them."
    Apparently, going from significant cashflow to $2-$3M from the lux tax line buys you this quote.

    I like the players we got (short-term) but multiple teams did a lot more this offseason with a lot less resources. That's where my disappointment lies.

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    Default Re: Donnie Walsh: "We have to go up a level"

    I am laughing at the guy who stated that we weren't players in Free Agency. We signed 5 free agents. How many did you want to sign?

    Also, we should have made some trades. All you have to do is trade your players for better players. Duh!! Why doesn't our front office know this.

    The Pacers have chosen the path of building a group of young guys to go on a 5-6 year run, hoping to top out at championship level for a year or two. If you are looking for spectacular moves, start watching the Lakers. This is not the team for you.

    I am not questioning anybodies fanhood, but goodness gracious. That is not the way the Pacers have ever done things. Why you would expect that to change is beyond me.

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    Default Re: Donnie Walsh: "We have to go up a level"

    Quote Originally Posted by docpaul View Post
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    This is not about being a "good" or a "bad" fan, it's just about being grounded in the substrate of a real conversation.
    ... for your point.

    ... for your poetic use of "substrate."

    IMO, it's natural to grouse about "suboptimal" moves (let alone "terrible" ones). We invest ourselves emotionally into the improvement of the team and can't help but feel at least a twinge of disappointment when TPTB deviates from our master plan (or seems to fall short of competitors' efforts, as Imawhat suggests).

    For my own part, I'm on record as liking our moves, at least overall, and for the next 2 or 3 years. I think the fit of the pieces will prove a pleasant surprise for many here, and I think Donnie's allusion to a couple missing pieces HAS to be among (i) a reliable scorer at the backup 4 (cringe: a stretch 4?!), (ii) a burly backup 3, and (iii) an elite 3-pt marksman. (As for Donnie's comment, "As you get closer to training camp, there are going to be players left out that are good," I believe he was alluding to Houston, in particular.) Two more supportive, good-fitting pieces and we'll be strong indeed, if not shiny. Maybe we still won't be as good as Miami, but beating out the rest of the competition in the East and meeting the Heat in the conference finals will be improvement. And if the majority of our young core players improve, we'll have reason for optimism indeed.
    Last edited by DrFife; 07-24-2012 at 02:27 PM.
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    Default Re: Donnie Walsh: "We have to go up a level"

    Quote Originally Posted by kent beckley View Post
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    I am laughing at the guy who stated that we weren't players in Free Agency. We signed 5 free agents. How many did you want to sign?

    Also, we should have made some trades. All you have to do is trade your players for better players. Duh!! Why doesn't our front office know this.

    The Pacers have chosen the path of building a group of young guys to go on a 5-6 year run, hoping to top out at championship level for a year or two. If you are looking for spectacular moves, start watching the Lakers. This is not the team for you.

    I am not questioning anybodies fanhood, but goodness gracious. That is not the way the Pacers have ever done things. Why you would expect that to change is beyond me.
    And how many championships the Pacers have? exactly....

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    Default Re: Donnie Walsh: "We have to go up a level"

    Quote Originally Posted by Heisenberg View Post
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    I have the utmost respect for Donnie, I truly do. But you can't play up your title-less multiple decade resume and expect educated fans to just lap it up. I have absolutely no doubt that Donnie Walsh (and Pritchard) are infinitely capable of building a "good team."

    But it's not enough. It's why I get so frustrated when I see people reference the good things Donnie did in his first stint (if you can call it a "stint") here. He's good at his job, I'm grateful he was our GM for so long and took us to the playoffs as a small market in 16 out of 17 years or whatever it was.

    But I want a championship. I want to be the best team in the league, not 5th best, not making the conference finals 3 outta 4 years. I want the Pacers to have an NBA title. And I'd LOVE if Donnie got to hold the O'Brien trophy over his head and look in the camera and tell me to eat a dick. I just don't think it's in him, nor unfortunately Mr. Simon. That's not a blight on Herb, but he's an old man now trying to keep his retail business afloat in an extremely different economy from when he built it. His interests are elsewhere, and you can't blame him for that.

    I just can't shake this feeling of the franchise perpetually being cool with "good enough."
    I thanked you just for the bolded part. Needed that laugh ,and if f Walsh ever said that it would be priceless
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    Default Re: Donnie Walsh: "We have to go up a level"

    Quote Originally Posted by docpaul View Post
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    You all are announcing our team's death, when it's just becoming a teenager?
    Two huge parts of the team are really old(basketball wise) the Pacers are a young team but let's not go crazy in thinking that we have an Oklahoma City 2.0 here.

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    Default Re: Donnie Walsh: "We have to go up a level"

    Quote Originally Posted by Heisenberg View Post
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    And I'd LOVE if Donnie got to hold the O'Brien trophy over his head and look in the camera and tell me to eat a dick.
    Oh I can see it now: everybody at the PD party maowing on za, waiting to see if Heisenberg actually eats the dressed-up hot dog (with a pic of DW and a little plastic trophy full o' mustard) placed in front of him.
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    Default Re: Donnie Walsh: "We have to go up a level"

    9 franchises have won a title in the last 30 years. Not every team has "their turn".

    Considering the Pacer's market size they have been a very successful franchise. One of the winning-est teams during the whole 90s decade. Complete rebuild in 3 years after the finals appearance in 2000, culminating in a 61-win season. Another complete rebuild in 5 or so years. There are many franchises that are NEVER good. Some big-market teams (NY, Boston) that go for loooooong stretches of futility. Donnie put this franchise in great position to win titles in the past, they just fell short. Are Utah and Phoenix poorly run? Two franchises that have fallen short but have put out some great teams.

    And don't give me the "well San Antonio are a small market and they've won" argument. They also "won" David Robinson and Tim Duncan. OKC are only good for the same reason - the draft.

    I have yet to hear a compelling argument as to why Donnie Walsh is a poor GM. He's constantly put us in position to win, usually with likeable teams, that play the right way, they've just fallen short. Something that happens to over 2/3 of the entire league.

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    Default Re: Donnie Walsh: "We have to go up a level"

    Quote Originally Posted by Heisenberg View Post
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    I just can't shake this feeling of the franchise perpetually being cool with "good enough."
    I usually agree with you quite a bit, and in the points you make I understand where you are coming from, but you, Peck and some others drastically undersell the Walsh era Pacers. They weren't just "good enough", they were title contenders. 48 minutes from the Finals 4 out of 7 years is a title contender, period.

    CONTENDER, not winner. Title capable teams lose to other title capable teams every year, and there's more than just 1-2 of them.

    So Walsh has never shown any satisfaction with just being "good enough". Based on this view the Cavs were just happy being good enough during the Lebron years, and the Lakers were happy just being good enough before Phil Jackson arrived. The Knicks have spent 30+ years being happy just being good enough, look at all the non-title years to prove it.


    Okay, so "satisfied with just making the playoffs" has 100% got to come off the Walsh/Pacers criticism board, it doesn't have any logical backing when compared to opinions of other teams that came up short but made runs at the title.




    Having said that, my problem with this go-around is "holding it for Bird for one year" and "I was rushed back" and "letting Pritch do a lot of it". There are tons of indicators that this is a part-time gig from a guy not that involved in it, not as motivated, not as hungry.

    He has pride in his work, but he's a place holder for Bird and a feel-good token for Herb (vs just letting Pritch run things). This is not a front-office with a clear vision, and yet ironically Donnie says "don't rush to judge" as if he's somehow got his own 5 year plan in place in which he won't even participate for most of it. This is a THREE HEADED monster instead of a 2 headed monster.

    They are running the risk of floundering around between visions and ideals, just keeping afloat waiting for Larry to return or not return.

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    Default Re: Donnie Walsh: "We have to go up a level"

    Quote Originally Posted by pacerDU View Post
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    9 franchises have won a title in the last 30 years. Not every team has "their turn".

    Considering the Pacer's market size they have been a very successful franchise. One of the winning-est teams during the whole 90s decade. Complete rebuild in 3 years after the finals appearance in 2000, culminating in a 61-win season. Another complete rebuild in 5 or so years. There are many franchises that are NEVER good. Some big-market teams (NY, Boston) that go for loooooong stretches of futility. Donnie put this franchise in great position to win titles in the past, they just fell short. Are Utah and Phoenix poorly run? Two franchises that have fallen short but have put out some great teams.

    And don't give me the "well San Antonio are a small market and they've won" argument. They also "won" David Robinson and Tim Duncan. OKC are only good for the same reason - the draft.

    I have yet to hear a compelling argument as to why Donnie Walsh is a poor GM. He's constantly put us in position to win, usually with likeable teams, that play the right way, they've just fallen short. Something that happens to over 2/3 of the entire league.
    Great post. Nice to read one based in reality.
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    Default Re: Donnie Walsh: "We have to go up a level"

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    Two huge parts of the team are really old(basketball wise) the Pacers are a young team but let's not go crazy in thinking that we have an Oklahoma City 2.0 here.
    OKC's situation is almost unprecedented. It's not like they signed any of their high level talent. Though they never drafted at number one they were in the lottery 4 straight years and fortunate enough to have 4 very good players fall to them each time-- Jeff Green (later traded for K. Perkins), Durant, Westbrook, and Harden. Then they won 50 games and took the Lakers 6 games. Then 2 years ago they made it to the conference finals. And last yr made it to the finals.

    No I'm not saying that the Pacers are anything close to OKC. But we're still a young/up-coming team with most of our players having their best years ahead of them.

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    Default Re: Donnie Walsh: "We have to go up a level"

    Quote Originally Posted by pacerDU View Post
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    9 franchises have won a title in the last 30 years. Not every team has "their turn".

    Considering the Pacer's market size they have been a very successful franchise. One of the winning-est teams during the whole 90s decade. Complete rebuild in 3 years after the finals appearance in 2000, culminating in a 61-win season. Another complete rebuild in 5 or so years. There are many franchises that are NEVER good. Some big-market teams (NY, Boston) that go for loooooong stretches of futility. Donnie put this franchise in great position to win titles in the past, they just fell short. Are Utah and Phoenix poorly run? Two franchises that have fallen short but have put out some great teams.

    And don't give me the "well San Antonio are a small market and they've won" argument. They also "won" David Robinson and Tim Duncan. OKC are only good for the same reason - the draft.

    I have yet to hear a compelling argument as to why Donnie Walsh is a poor GM. He's constantly put us in position to win, usually with likeable teams, that play the right way, they've just fallen short. Something that happens to over 2/3 of the entire league.
    I was JUST about to post this lol. Good point.

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    Default Re: Donnie Walsh: "We have to go up a level"

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    I think he meant "upgrade the team" to win a championship not "upgrade the team" to be a decent playoffs team, and no Bills nobody is asking to spend a 100mil dollars.

    The part that bothered me was when he used the word "willing"

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    Default Re: Donnie Walsh: "We have to go up a level"

    Quote Originally Posted by Ace E.Anderson View Post
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    OKC's situation is almost unprecedented. It's not like they signed any of their high level talent. Though they never drafted at number one they were in the lottery 4 straight years and fortunate enough to have 4 very good players fall to them each time-- Jeff Green (later traded for K. Perkins), Durant, Westbrook, and Harden. Then they won 50 games and took the Lakers 6 games. Then 2 years ago they made it to the conference finals. And last yr made it to the finals.

    No I'm not saying that the Pacers are anything close to OKC. But we're still a young/up-coming team with most of our players having their best years ahead of them.
    I'm sorry man but I don't buy the "up and coming team" thing, yes Hibbert, Hill and PG are probably going to be better, I don't expect much from Mahinmi, Tyler, Green, Plumlee or Augustin so they to me don't count, so the Pacers have an "up and coming team" because they have 3 players that are going to be better? I don't think so.

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    Default Re: Donnie Walsh: "We have to go up a level"

    Quote Originally Posted by rm1369 View Post
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    I guess we just forgot to put on our blue and gold glasses. Apparently they make every move the team make, not only the correct one, but the only one possible.
    When you start off your post by basically calling anyone who might disagree with you ignorant and/or a homer, it pretty much cancels out anything else you have to say. Just sayin.
    Last edited by rabid; 07-24-2012 at 03:30 PM. Reason: typos

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    Default Re: Donnie Walsh: "We have to go up a level"

    Quote Originally Posted by rm1369 View Post
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    I guess we just forgot to put on our blue and gold glasses. Apparently they make every move the team make, not only the correct one, but the only one possible. I've consistantly heard those wearing them tell me how the GS trade was good ("it had to be done") while a fewsod us said it would lead to cap helll, heard how Hansbrough was a great pick ("because the Pacers can't gamble on a Holiday type"), how JOB was the only possible option to coach this team (no one else would take it), how the team can't afford any down years (32 wins apparently saved us, but 26 wins would have caused the team to move to LA), how the Pacers have never been players in FA only because they've never had cap space (seems they did this year?), or they are willing to spend, but no one wants to come here (except every quote we heard before and every quote after free agency we hear from TPTB indicates they never tried).

    So you'll have to excuse me for not believing it when I'm told this is a championship level team by that same group. I can clearly see this team is lacking the top level talent and, most importantly, go to guy to win a title. If I heard they were looking for that and I thought they were accumulating pieces to make that happen, I may be excited. But I keep being told they want to upgrade the damn bench. Couple that with the conservative history of the team ( and DW in particular) and I have very little excitement for the upcoming season.

    If people want to start telling me that makes me a bad fan - go ahead. The only reason it pisses me off is because I care about the team. I think they could do more and they sell the city and the team short by hiding behind the small market. This same market just cut arguably the greatest QB in history because it was right for the team long term. And unless the Pacers change their ways, the Colts will continue to expand their domination of the Pacers when it comes to fans. Hell, the Colts, coming off the worst record in the league, are closer to a title than the Pacers are, IMO. When they win another one before the Pacers do, it will finally give TPTB a reason for there apparent inferiority complex.
    First of all you turn a lot of people off when you suggest some of us have blue and gold glasses on. Honestly with me that taints everything you say after that. You are implying that some of us are not able to see the team as it really is.

    So do you really think they aren't trrying or willing to upgrade the starters. Of course they are. Come on, think about it. The problem is it is very difficult to upgrade these starters. It is very, very difficult to acquire a player better than Roy, David or Danny. Upgrading the bench is easy so do that first. This team has not been together for very long, a shortened season. lets not gamble and make a bad trade, lets not gamble (make a potentially bad trade) right now. lets see how good this team can be with a full season and with a better bench. I think that is at the very least a reasonable approach. But yes they are always trying to upgrade the starters. I mean do we really have to state that.


    OK, so the Colts get lucky, I mean as lucky as any franchise since the Spurs drafted Duncan and you are suggesting the pacers should try to be so lucky. How do you do that?

    Once again I'm very surprised by this thread. I think there is a lot to be excited about.
    Last edited by Unclebuck; 07-24-2012 at 03:15 PM.

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    Default Re: Donnie Walsh: "We have to go up a level"

    I wish we had an owner like Mike Ilitch of the Tigers who is like 85 and all he wants to do is win. Blank checks for his gm and just wants to win a WS before he dies. Maybe with Mel it could of happen the dude actually loved basketball but with Herb I fell he just wants to be ok and stay under the tax and doesn't care about winning.

    PS. Donnie the goal shouldnt be a good team it should be a great team and almost the only way to do that is have a known name guy or "the names you hear" on your team.


    I just hate this pretty much confirms all my fears of the franchise
    Last edited by pacer4ever; 07-24-2012 at 03:25 PM.

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    Default Re: Donnie Walsh: "We have to go up a level"

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    First of all you turn a lot of people off when you suggest some of us have blue and gold glasses on. Honestly with me that taints everything you say after that. You are implying that some of us are not able to see the team as it really is.

    So do you really think they aren't trrying or willing to upgrade the starters. Of course they are. Come on, think about it. The problem is it is very difficult to upgrade these starters. It is very, very difficult to acquire a player better than Roy, David or Danny. Upgrading the bench is easy so do that first. This team has not been together for very long, a shortened season. lets not gamble and make a bad trade, lets not gamble (make a potentially bad trade) right now. lets see how good this team can be with a full season and with a better bench. I think that is at the very least a reasonable approach. But yes they are always trying to upgrade the starters. I mean do we really have to state that.


    OK, so the Colts get lucky, I mean as lucky as any franchise since the Spurs drafted Duncan and you are suggesting the pacers should try to be so lucky. How do you do that?

    Once again I'm very surprised by this thread. I think there is a lot to be excited about.
    It was reported that Vogel told Walsh and Pritchard to bring the same starters back so the goal was never to upgrade or trade either one of the starters.

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