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Thread: Indiana’s Pritchard Explains Offseason Moves

  1. #26

    Default Re: Indiana’s Pritchard Explains Offseason Moves

    Quote Originally Posted by Sparhawk View Post
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    If you've read some of my other posts, you'd understand.

    -Hate the Plumlee pick. As I'm sure there were a lot of fans that felt the same.
    -Gave DC away for nothing. Just a dumb move. Small market teams shouldn't be giving away assets. DC is a fringe starter, excellent backup. You can't tell me that's not worth something.
    -Hill is way overpaid. Should have let the market dictate his salary just like Hibbs. I just don't see how a small combo guard would have gotten $8M from another team.
    -Pacers blew through the offseason in like 4 days. If they'd had asked Hibbs/Hill to hold off signing till after the amnesty period, I can only imagine that the Pacers could have Scola or Brand, which would have been a huuuuuuuuge upgrade.
    -While I'm glad the Pacers got Augustin, this is a latteral move IMO. What makes it a bad move is that he costs more than DC and we don't get his bird rights.

    -I like the Ian signing. I'm not complaining at $4M cause that doesn't seem much for a backup.
    -Like the Green signing.

    Sure the bench is better. The overall long term costs could really hurt the Pacers though by over paying for Hill and the cost of Hibbert (though I think it was the right move to match, it's still a lot of money). All we heard from management is how they'll finally have money this offseason to go after free agents. In the end, they used most of it to just resign their own guys. So much for that.

    So of course Pritchard has to spin it and sell it to the fans, cause many are upset. Other teams didn't have the kind of money the Pacers have and yet they were still able to get better. That's why I'm not very confident at the moment.

    However, though I've been upset by the moves, I'm ready for the season to start and to root for these guys.
    Fair enough. I agree with most of your sentiments but I would like to hope Pritchard and Walsh have an idea of what they're doing.

  2. #27
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    Default Re: Indiana’s Pritchard Explains Offseason Moves

    Quote Originally Posted by iogyhufi View Post
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    Fair enough. I agree with most of your sentiments but I would like to hope Pritchard and Walsh have an idea of what they're doing.
    Yeah, I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt. I don't like some of the moves, but I do admit that the team is better. Looking forward to the season to start and see what these guys can do.
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    Default Re: Indiana’s Pritchard Explains Offseason Moves

    Isn't it a tad ironic that we have Gerald Green now who was picked #18, right behind Danny and who some here wanted instead of Granger? Aren't we all glad we had DG all this time?

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    Default Re: Indiana’s Pritchard Explains Offseason Moves

    Quote Originally Posted by MyFavMartin View Post
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    Isn't it a tad ironic that we have Gerald Green now who was picked #18, right behind Danny and who some here wanted instead of Granger? Aren't we all glad we had DG all this time?
    Won't Green be coming off the bench? If you think DG is the starter of the two, then yes, I am glad we had DG at 17 instead of drafting a bench guy at 17.
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    Default Re: Indiana’s Pritchard Explains Offseason Moves

    Quote Originally Posted by Sparhawk View Post
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    I would at least like to know why they didn't try to get a pick for DC or if they did. He's a fringe starter, but a very excellent backup. You don't just give that away.
    It was the price of dumping D-Jones contract. These kind of moves happen all the time for all the teams in the league.

    I could care less that we didn't pick up a second round pick in the Collison deal. We turned around and signed a better player to fill the same position, we also added a legitimate backup center (previously we had no size when Hibbert was off the floor) and signed a better/younger player to replace D-Jones. In order to make all these signings we had to dump some salary, which puts you at the mercy of those who are willing to absorb salary. Teams do not line up around the block to pick up your dead weight contracts.

    It was a big net gain, the specifics of the Collison deal are irrelevant. Teams willing to offer more for him probably weren't willing to take on Jones contract. The financials matter in these situations whether you like it or not.
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  7. #31

    Default Re: Indiana’s Pritchard Explains Offseason Moves

    We also have $18 or so million coming off next offseason and another $16 or so million the following offseason. We're set up for a mid to late 90's type run... hopefully a more successful mid to late 90's type run

  8. #32

    Default Re: Indiana’s Pritchard Explains Offseason Moves

    Quote Originally Posted by dgranger17 View Post
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    We also have $18 or so million coming off next offseason and another $16 or so million the following offseason. We're set up for a mid to late 90's type run... hopefully a more successful mid to late 90's type run
    Sure, if you ignore PG's eventual extension. Which honestly terrifies me. I've basically lost faith in PG ever being more than a spot up shooter that can finish well in transition and play strong defense on smaller players. I'll be really surprised if he ever puts up 20+ a night on anything nearing efficient. Doesn't mean I want to dump him, does mean I'm open to trading him though. His hype outweighs his performance.

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    Default Re: Indiana’s Pritchard Explains Offseason Moves

    Quote Originally Posted by Sparhawk View Post
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    I would at least like to know why they didn't try to get a pick for DC or if they did. He's a fringe starter, but a very excellent backup. You don't just give that away.
    Hypothetically speaking, what if Collison goes to Walsh and says..."Hey, either I start, or trade me". Then, Pacers brash are in a scramble to find an ideal situation.

    Like I stated in other threads, Collison's interview where he stated "he'd be a starter somewhere..." gave me the impression that he wouldn't accept backup role on any team.

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    Default Re: Indiana’s Pritchard Explains Offseason Moves

    Quote Originally Posted by Heisenberg View Post
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    Sure, if you ignore PG's eventual extension. Which honestly terrifies me. I've basically lost faith in PG ever being more than a spot up shooter that can finish well in transition and play strong defense on smaller players. I'll be really surprised if he ever puts up 20+ a night on anything nearing efficient. Doesn't mean I want to dump him, does mean I'm open to trading him though. His hype outweighs his performance.
    This season will make or break the hype, I think. I won't give up on him unless he looks the same this year.

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    Default Re: Indiana’s Pritchard Explains Offseason Moves

    Quote Originally Posted by joew8302 View Post
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    I wish he would have explained the thought process behind sending Collison to Dallas.
    He did in another article:

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/0...n_1683341.html

    Was it tough to deal Darren Collison given that he's been a nice player for a couple years now?

    Absolutely -- him and Dahntay [Jones]. First of all, they were a big part of winning a lot of games this past year and the turnaround of the team. Now Darren, he's been an unbelievable pro and he wants to be a starter, so I think it's sort of a misconception that you gotta get value back on every trade, and there is some truth to that. Darren has been a terrific kid for this organization; he wanted to go to a place where he had a real chance of starting, so there's a human element and we get that. It was important to our owner, it was important to [team president] Donnie [Walsh], so we decided to do that.
    If we don't have respect and appreciation for others, we have nothing. So I'm down with it. Would have been nice to have found other assets for putting him in this position, but oh well.

    Here's what they didn't say: Collison was clearly coming off the bench if he stayed on the team. The second team clearly needed more of a facilitator to set up the Mahinmi / Hansbrough / Plumlee / Green types. Collison was a dynamic scorer, for sure... but he struggled to be effective off the bench unless he took the game over single handedly (which he did a couple of times to great effect in the playoffs).

    DJ Augustine has a real shot in giving the second team a new level of cohesiveness, as he has a real shot at filling the missing post feeder role. Watch the tape and see for yourselves. He's definitely more the pure point type.

    We'll see? It's only a year commitment at this point, but I suspect we'll all see a DJ Augustine renaissance this year, especially given that he's fighting for his NBA life.
    Last edited by docpaul; 07-24-2012 at 12:26 PM.

  14. #36
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    Default Re: Indiana’s Pritchard Explains Offseason Moves

    The other thing that seems clear to me: Pritchard *really* wanted Gerald Green. In some ways, Green would not have been possible, if we didn't jettison D. Jones, which required that we moved Collison as well.

    If Green comes up short, then I will use my retrospect-o-scope to be disappointed in the Collison trade. But, there was no question that Green was going to sign a multi-year contract with some team this offseason. Pritchard clearly wanted it to be with us.

    https://twitter.com/nbakev/status/223541126580281345

    Please officially welcome @RealGGreen to the #Pacers family!!! #excited!!!
    There's still quite a bit of basketball to play, before we judge most of the moves. They seem a lot more complicated then people are pre-judging them from.

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    Default Re: Indiana’s Pritchard Explains Offseason Moves

    Quote Originally Posted by docpaul View Post
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    He did in another article:

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/0...n_1683341.html



    If we don't have respect and appreciation for others, we have nothing. So I'm down with it. Would have been nice to have found other assets for putting him in this position, but oh well.

    Here's what they didn't say: Collison was clearly coming off the bench if he stayed on the team. The second team clearly needed more of a facilitator to set up the Mahinmi / Hansbrough / Plumlee / Green types. Collison was a dynamic scorer, for sure... but he struggled to be effective off the bench unless he took the game over single handedly (which he did a couple of times to great effect in the playoffs).

    DJ Augustine has a real shot in giving the second team a new level of cohesiveness, as he has a real shot at filling the missing post feeder role. Watch the tape and see for yourselves. He's definitely more the pure point type.

    We'll see? It's only a year commitment at this point, but I suspect we'll all see a DJ Augustine renaissance this year, especially given that he's fighting for his NBA life.
    If only the Pacers could have gotten Jae Crowder back in that deal. *drool* I think he should provide great energy and defense for the Mavs.
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    Default Re: Indiana’s Pritchard Explains Offseason Moves

    Quote Originally Posted by Heisenberg View Post
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    Sure, if you ignore PG's eventual extension. Which honestly terrifies me. I've basically lost faith in PG ever being more than a spot up shooter that can finish well in transition and play strong defense on smaller players. I'll be really surprised if he ever puts up 20+ a night on anything nearing efficient. Doesn't mean I want to dump him, does mean I'm open to trading him though. His hype outweighs his performance.
    Though I don't think he'll ever be a true number one option on a contending team, I do think he'll be an effective and efficient scorer. DG didnt average 20+ ppg until his 4th yr (though he averaged 19.6 his 3rd yr) when he was 25. PG turns 23 in October and is already just as good of a shooter as DG was. The kid averaged 12 ppg being the 4th or 5th option, and shot pretty efficiently (44% overall, 39% from 3, 80% from the line) If he can up his FTA by 4 per game by simply attacking the basket more, you're looking at a 15-16 ppg scorer already.

    In the day and age where players are superstars by their second years, we lose sight of players who are "late bloomers". Again I'm not saying PG is going to be a SUPERSTAR, but I think he'll be more than just a spot up 3pt shooter/wing defender ala Trevor Ariza.

  17. #39
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    Default Re: Indiana’s Pritchard Explains Offseason Moves

    Quote Originally Posted by BillS View Post
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    Won't Green be coming off the bench? If you think DG is the starter of the two, then yes, I am glad we had DG at 17 instead of drafting a bench guy at 17.
    I think Green's career would have gone a whole lot differently had he been drafted into a different situation. That's not to say he isn't at fault for how his career initially floundered, but he was never really in a position to succeed.

    A Gerald Green fan who now finds himself rooting for the Suns.

  18. #40
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    Default Re: Indiana’s Pritchard Explains Offseason Moves

    Quote Originally Posted by Heisenberg View Post
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    Sure, if you ignore PG's eventual extension. Which honestly terrifies me. I've basically lost faith in PG ever being more than a spot up shooter that can finish well in transition and play strong defense on smaller players. I'll be really surprised if he ever puts up 20+ a night on anything nearing efficient. Doesn't mean I want to dump him, does mean I'm open to trading him though. His hype outweighs his performance.
    Not just the Paul resigning, but keeping or filling the DWest gap. West at $10m is a pretty good price. Apart from the Scola joke of an amnesty deal you aren't getting scorers at the PF for less than 10.

    If Paul improves so much that you don't mind losing West caliber talent at the 4, then Paul's going to get a huge contract himself. If Paul stays about the same then you'll still want West or something on par with West. So the money to keep THIS FIVE (or simulation of) together is all spent, period.


    I didn't think about the Scola amnesty, but TPTB should have. And if they had then they should have looked to move DC/DJ for a late first pick, then saved the money for Scola. If you miss that you can still get a guy like Mahimi later. This costs you no more than you just spent and isn't that hard to do.

    Similar to just letting Hill see the market. Maybe someone goes nuts and offers him crazy money, but you've still got DC so who cares. Now you don't need to trade DC if you let Hill go. Or the market matches or lowers the price you paid and in that case you are at worst the same as you are now. It's a no-lose situation that they didn't take advantage of.



    To be honest a lot of it feels like a rushed effort done by people who didn't fully expect to be in the situation of 100% control. This summer did not feel like a fluid, organized plan of attack, not even a plan disrupted by a surprise move from another team.

    Tons of motion to get right back to where they were.




    By the way, hands up on who thought the bench sucked last season 2-3 weeks into it, or even before the season started. They had Hill, Tyler and DJ. They added Lou. Lou had some good games and even when they swapped DC to the bench he had some good games, and then they added Barbosa and people were loving his scoring.

    No one really thought of the bench as problem till the playoffs. A month before the playoffs everyone thought the bench was a strong point vs other teams.

    Keep that in mind when doing the Pritch rah-rah on this bench. It's not bad, but it feels quite a bit the same to me, and I really like DJ Aug and have hopes for Greene. But Jones shot a decent 3 last year and was playing some of his better ball, and DC/Hill wasn't exactly crapping it up out there. GG and Aug aren't going to be drastic changes.



    It's all on Paul, Roy and George. 2 just got paid for it to be there and the 3rd might be on the verge of it, so I guess it's appropriate that they are where the pressure really falls.*





    * i realize this falls under my "no s***" rule of stating the already stated by others obvious point

  19. #41
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    Default Re: Indiana’s Pritchard Explains Offseason Moves

    Quote Originally Posted by Sparhawk View Post
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    ...
    -Hill is way overpaid. Should have let the market dictate his salary just like Hibbs. I just don't see how a small combo guard would have gotten $8M from another team.
    ...
    Which of these would you rather have in place of George Hill?:

    Jeremy Lin
    Nic Batum
    Landry Fields
    Gordon Dragic
    Gerald Wallace
    Mo Willams
    Jeff Green

    All of these guys signed for roughly the same money as George Hill did. I wouldn't trade him for any of them. I do not believe he is overpaid.
    *Edit - most pro athletes are overpaid! He isn't disproportionately overpaid.*
    Last edited by fwpacerfan; 07-24-2012 at 03:55 PM.
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  20. #42
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    Default Re: Indiana’s Pritchard Explains Offseason Moves

    Quote Originally Posted by Sparhawk View Post
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    It just strikes me as funny that Pritchard is really going out of his way to explain and sell the offseason moves cause so many fans are pissed. Doesn't give me a ton of confidence.
    One interview is "really going out of his way"? I'm a huge Pacers fan who lives in the northeastern suburbs of Indianapolis and reads up on the Blue & Gold almost every day. I couldn't pick Pritchard out of a lineup. Randy Bernard gets more copy in the Indianapolis Star than Pritchard does.
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  21. #43

    Default Re: Indiana’s Pritchard Explains Offseason Moves

    Quote Originally Posted by fwpacerfan View Post
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    . . . *Edit - most pro athletes are overpaid! He isn't disproportionately overpaid.*
    Some are, most are not. What is closer to the truth is a lack of understanding by some of the actual cost of signing most of these guys. Wanting Hill to sign for $6M and Roy for $12M is nice. I wanted that. So did Larry. Think those were his offers. But the choice is either signing these guys for $8M and $14M or being the proud owner of $15M of cap space.

    Now if you want a really good deal on a couple of guys, just wait a couple of years. There is a buyer's market coming as the new CBA starts phasing in.

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