Granger drives and pulls up all the time and he's a very good defender. Nobody can guard Lebron but your comments about him not being able to guard others is absurd.
Oh wait... you think Boston has improved significantly with the additions of Jason Terry/Courtney Lee and that the Nets totally rebuilt their team with the addition of one guy, Joe Johnson.
I'm sorry but you're delusional and I view your opinions as awful.
Another thing is Rose's game was mostly athleticism, and I doubt he'll ever be the same.
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I don't know if they are better, as always they depend on health. If Bradley recovers, if their vets are as good as last season, they've upgraded. In that case they would be probably the deepest team in the league. 9 guys who are starter level or close (KG,Rondo, PP, Bass, Lee, Terry, Green, Sullinger, Bradley).
the Nets did very close to a total rebuild. They'll add Joe Johnson, they'll basically replace Shelden Williams with Brook Lopez (assuming health) and they'll have 4 times more of Gerald Wallace who played less than 25% of games for them last season.
And while I'm not a big fan of Teletovic, I think he's a 5 times better player than Johan Petro, who was their main big off the bench last year.
Also, Deron may be healthier.
I don't consider them a major regular season force. It will take time for them to build good chemistry. It will take time for Teletovic to adjust to NBA basketball. Also, Brook Lopez may be very rusty at the start. And psychologically, they are likely to be bothered by Dwight rumors until the deadline.
I expect ~45 wins.
But I think they will be very dangerous in the playoffs. If we are #3 and the Nets are #6, I won't feel easy at all.
Last edited by ballism; 07-21-2012 at 06:34 PM.
We should be better than last year, so I disagree strongly with Simmons. Our bench is better and our starters can grow as a unit, plus Hibbert and especially George have in no way reached their ceilings.
NY, Boston and Brooklyn all made improvements. No idea how far it will take them, but you'd have a hard time arguing any of them will not improve.
yes. he had his knee drained and worked on this off-season. i think he has about 2 years including this upcoming one and he will drop off big time.
he isn't terribly tall and as those high mileage knees continue to wear down, his effectiveness will quickly evaporate.
and as far as olblu saying he isn't any higher mileage than any other 30 yr. old is silly.
not many guys play his reckless style where they hit the floor after nearly EVERY shot they take. in fact i don't thin i have ever seen a player play like that. of course it is mostly in effort to milk calls from the refs and it works for him a decent amount of the time. but when you hit the floor after nearly every shot, especially after your 20's, it will catch up pretty quick i think.
Last edited by clownskull; 07-21-2012 at 07:24 PM.
"He will make many more all star teams before he is done. And even at the end of his career, he will be better than anyone currently on the Pacers......"
good to know you can guarantee something like that.
at the end of his career, he will be a taller version of iverson- a guy whose game relied on his speed and quickness and had none of those things left. i don't buy it he has many more all star games left in him unless he gets vote like yao ming got his.
he will have to play as many minutes as the game dictates- and he had to play a bunch this past year.
Quick quiz, who is the pacers 3rd oldest player?
26 year old Tyler Hansbrough
New York got older, Miami got older, New Jersey got older
There is more than one way to improve. Most of our guys are moving towards their prime years, while other teams are on the other side of the mountain.
I also love that Boston got better by getting rid of Ray Allen while Miami got better by acquiring him.
IMO hibbert isnt overpaid. Demand sets the market, and the market set Hibbert's price. if you're paying market you can't be overpaying.
a player can become overpaid due to the guaranteed contract system of the NBA. if it later gets to a point where a player is making more than he could ever get in the open market at the time, he becomes overpaid (granger wasn't overpaid when he signed his deal, but he probably is now.) OR if a player somehow, someway gets a contract more than any other team would have paid (george hill is overpaid because no one else, I believe, wouldve paid him anywhere near 40/5).
i dont believe that you can argue hibbert is overpaid because other better players make more. thats mostly a result of our max contract and salary cap system. hibbert makes almost as much as a guy like durant or lebron not because hes overpaid but because those guys are underpaid. if the market was allowed to set the price on durant or lebron without salary cap or max contract restrictions they would make 30 like ARod or Pujols.
for lots of reasons we cant get durants and lebrons so we pay fair market value for hibberts. theres nothing we can do about it. but hibbert isnt overpaid.
i would also strongly disagree that west, DJ or green are overpaid. Mahimni maybe, but Ive seen him play like once and clearly wasnt paying attention to him so I cant make judgment. But west, Dj and Green are very fairly priced IMO.
Simmons' biggest gripe was the we paid max for a center when it seems like the league at an elite level is moving away from big centers. If Hibbert is matched up with Bosh and not destroying him in the post then we are losing that matchup. But a big part of that is how poor the Pacers are at feeding the post. If they are going to continue to play West and Hibbert through the post this year we are going to need a lot better post entry passes to make it successful against the NBA's elite.
I'm not sure he hasn't already lost it...
But then again, he has horrible shot selection so maybe that is the problem. But bball IQ improvement at this point in his career seems to be expecting a little much.
Nuntius was right. I was wrong. Frank Vogel has retained his job.
"A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, thatís teamwork."
As to Roy Hibbert, the win/lose on his "value" will be on his scoring. On D... we've seen his defense and shot blocking on the plus side, and his lateral slowness on the minus side. He can be compensated for, but Simmons has a point about that slowness being an issue with so many mobile forward/centers who can hit outside shots.
But Simmons is also being simplistic. If Roy Hibbert bumps his scoring up to around 18 ppg on efficient shooting, no one gives a rip about a defensive mismatch. Pau Gasol used to get flak about his defensive liabilities. You know why you don't hear about that anymore, why Pau is now a good "rim defender?" Because Pau scores. Teams have to match up to him. That's the path for Roy.
But if teams can take Roy out of the offense by fronting him, yes, he will be less valuable in the playoffs. Because in the playoffs, the defensive schemes and awareness are raised.
Cynics always claim to be realists...From Dead Poet Society to Pacers Digest.
And option 2 was???
Now, STFU Bill Simmons...what a wanker!
Frank Vogel says "Killer instinct, start strong, build a lead and then step on their throats."
Simmons always acts like he knows what he's talking about and he really doesn't in my opinion. I don't have any examples because I can't remember, but he predicted a bunch of stuff last year and was completely off. I really don't think he knows a lot about basketball except for when it comes to the Celtics.
On a seperate note, I just don't think that 21 million for 4 players (one of which is our second best player) is a bad deal at all.
Other than Miami, no team in the East is better than the Pacers.
Boston is OLD- the addition of a 35 year old Jason Terry does not scare me. Pierce is 35 and KG is 37. The Pacers had a better record than the Celtics last season.
Chicago- hemorrhaging key roles players to reduce salary and Rose won't be back for awhile.
Atlanta- lost its leading scorer
Brooklyn- they haven't been any good with Deron Williams and Gerald Wallace is over-the-hill and no game changer. Adding a 31 year-old Joe Johnson is not a game changing upgrade. Remember, the Nets were 22-44 last season. It's going to take a major improvement just to get back to .500. Robin Lopez is severely overhyped- he has no winning pedigree in this league and is coming off an injury.
Philadelphia- an eight seed the last two years. They are getting overhyped because they beat a severely shorthanded Bulls team in the first round.
New York- they added two 40 year olds. Marcus Camby and Jason Kidd circa 2012 are role players at best.