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Thread: Simmons Game of Thrones/NBA FA Article

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    Default Re: Simmons Game of Thrones/NBA FA Article

    Quote Originally Posted by PaulGeorge View Post
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    LeBron James....
    Hey.......

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    Default Re: Simmons Game of Thrones/NBA FA Article

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
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    Oh yeh. I can't believe I forgot about Allen. I guess I agree with that. But Wade has logged a lot of miles and Allen too. The Heat are at the tail end of their dynasty period and if Dwight goes to LA, it's probably over.
    They aren't on the tail end as long as LBJ is playing at this level. Wade doesn't have any more miles than any other 30 year old star..... I give them another five or six years to be at the top. The Lakers don't have Howard yet but if they do, they move around OKC and it will be the Heat vs. the Lakers for at least the next two or three years......

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    Default Re: Simmons Game of Thrones/NBA FA Article

    Where the heck did Simmons get the idea of "Congrats on locking down the no. 6 seed for the next few years"? Sure, many teams have shaken up their roster. But it does not mean that a team that looks strong on paper automatically puts them above what the Pacers have achieved last season. Until this season proved otherwise, the Pacers are still the strongest contenders for the East this year aside from Miami. The Brooklyn nets still needs to make me a believer. The Knicks are still a big disappointment. Chicago is heading on that direction too. Boston lost Allen but gained Terry, so it's still uncertain how that change will affect the team. Orlando is collapsing. Atlanta will probably go down with Johnson's departure. Philly is more of a threat than them. Then who else looks to overthrow Indiana?

    Sometimes, it is disappointing how keeping your starting strong 5 together for another year (barring a trade on them of course) does not look an achievement in the eyes of the media. Danny being overpaid? He's a bargain compared to other players being paid to the same scale. Hibbert overpaid? His contract looks cheap when compared to an underachieving Lopez. Hill overpaid? Probably, but he's done more good to the team than any other same-tier FAs on their previous teams. So who is overpaid?

    As for the "overpaid role players", is David West's impact on the team not worth his current contract? And don't forget he's now recovered as compared to last season. DJ Augustin is a 1-year guy that will certainly fight for his worth right now. Gerald Green is an absolute bargain given his role. And Mahinmi still hasn't made his first game as a PAcer so it's too early to tell if he's overpaid. So who are the overpaid guys?

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    Default Re: Simmons Game of Thrones/NBA FA Article

    Quote Originally Posted by 15th parallel View Post
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    Where the heck did Simmons get the idea of "Congrats on locking down the no. 6 seed for the next few years"? Sure, many teams have shaken up their roster. But it does not mean that a team that looks strong on paper automatically puts them above what the Pacers have achieved last season. Until this season proved otherwise, the Pacers are still the strongest contenders for the East this year aside from Miami. The Brooklyn nets still needs to make me a believer. The Knicks are still a big disappointment. Chicago is heading on that direction too. Boston lost Allen but gained Terry, so it's still uncertain how that change will affect the team. Orlando is collapsing. Atlanta will probably go down with Johnson's departure. Philly is more of a threat than them. Then who else looks to overthrow Indiana?

    Sometimes, it is disappointing how keeping your starting strong 5 together for another year (barring a trade on them of course) does not look an achievement in the eyes of the media. Danny being overpaid? He's a bargain compared to other players being paid to the same scale. Hibbert overpaid? His contract looks cheap when compared to an underachieving Lopez. Hill overpaid? Probably, but he's done more good to the team than any other same-tier FAs on their previous teams. So who is overpaid?

    As for the "overpaid role players", is David West's impact on the team not worth his current contract? And don't forget he's now recovered as compared to last season. DJ Augustin is a 1-year guy that will certainly fight for his worth right now. Gerald Green is an absolute bargain given his role. And Mahinmi still hasn't made his first game as a PAcer so it's too early to tell if he's overpaid. So who are the overpaid guys?
    In my opinion, Granger is the only greatly overpaid player the Pacers have. He has just declined a bit every year and he doesn't seem to work on his game. He still can't get to the rim, hangs out for spot up threes, is a weak rebounder and a defensive liability..... You can tell he is overpaid because I never hear of anyone talking to the Pacers about aquiring him. We should have dealt him three years ago when he still had some value.... But I didn't see trading him just to be trading him either......

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    Default Re: Simmons Game of Thrones/NBA FA Article

    Quote Originally Posted by OlBlu View Post
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    They aren't on the tail end as long as LBJ is playing at this level. Wade doesn't have any more miles than any other 30 year old star..... I give them another five or six years to be at the top. The Lakers don't have Howard yet but if they do, they move around OKC and it will be the Heat vs. the Lakers for at least the next two or three years......
    Wade's game is predicated on athleticism and he will shortly be losing a step and become guardable, particularly as our young guys move toward their prime. Unfortunately for the Pacers and the rest of the league, that's probably not until 2013-14...so the Heat are likely to win another and maybe 3 titles. But by the time Wade turns 33, you will see his game start to fall apart. He isn't a great shooter and he gets by people on pure hops. Those hops aren't going to be good enough in just a couple years. He's already injured a lot and having knee surgery. His time at the top is just a couple years. In two years, we will all be talking about Miami aging...and in three they will be done. Ray Allen will be a corpse by that time.

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    Default Re: Simmons Game of Thrones/NBA FA Article

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
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    Wade's game is predicated on athleticism and he will shortly be losing a step and become guardable, particularly as our young guys move toward their prime. Unfortunately for the Pacers and the rest of the league, that's probably not until 2013-14...so the Heat are likely to win another and maybe 3 titles. But by the time Wade turns 33, you will see his game start to fall apart. He isn't a great shooter and he gets by people on pure hops. Those hops aren't going to be good enough in just a couple years. He's already injured a lot and having knee surgery. His time at the top is just a couple years. In two years, we will all be talking about Miami aging...and in three they will be done. Ray Allen will be a corpse by that time.
    But they will still have James in his prime and people ready to take the place of Wade and Allen. I think James will have a five or six year window to win championships in Miami......

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    Default Re: Simmons Game of Thrones/NBA FA Article

    Quote Originally Posted by OlBlu View Post
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    But they will still have James in his prime and people ready to take the place of Wade and Allen. I think James will have a five or six year window to win championships in Miami......
    I am pretty convinced that James cannot win it without Wade at the top of his game too. I don't think the Heat beat the Pacers in 3 years.

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    Default Re: Simmons Game of Thrones/NBA FA Article

    Quote Originally Posted by 15th parallel View Post
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    Where the heck did Simmons get the idea of "Congrats on locking down the no. 6 seed for the next few years"? Sure, many teams have shaken up their roster.
    he's just being consistent. From Simmons' POV, "no superstars + no flexibility = Hawks = #6".

    And to be fair, he seems to have 5 teams including Indiana in one big "tier 2" as opposed to definite standings. Which I absolutely agree with. From the same article:
    "The gods have no mercy. That's why they're gods."

    This one's for the Bulls, who lost three valuable bench guys for financial reasons (Kyle Korver, Ronnie Brewer and Omer Asik), softened the blow for their fans by bringing back Kirk Hinrich (they love that dude), and now are crossing their fingers that Derrick Rose who's reportedly "ahead of schedule," giving him something in common with every single NBA player who ever rehabbed a torn ACL (has anyone ever been "on schedule" or "a smidge behind schedule"?) can return to form in time for the 2013 playoffs even though that's a two-year recovery and we learn this over and over and over again. What a bummer. Right now, there's a steep drop from Miami to the next five Eastern playoff contenders (Boston, Chicago, New York, Brooklyn and Indiana). It's just a fact.

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    Default Re: Simmons Game of Thrones/NBA FA Article

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
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    I am pretty convinced that James cannot win it without Wade at the top of his game too. I don't think the Heat beat the Pacers in 3 years.

    In three years, Granger is in great decline and may not be on the team. Pat Riley will keep bringing in people to the Heat to keep them on top. All of the player know that James can carry a team to a championship like no other current player. There will always be a line to join him to win a title. I just don't see this big drop in Wade's game in the next three years. Playing with James is extending his career. He used to have to carry the entire load but it is LBJ's team now and Wade does not and will not have to do as much. Now, as for the Pacers, I don't see ownership spending any money to make them more than marginally better than they are. As long as they are a playoff team that can sometimes win a round in the playoffs, management will be content. You are back to the same problems. Miami can always get a superstar to play there. We can't get one to play in Indiana and if we drafted one that turned into a superstar, we would have the same trouble Orlando has in keeping him. I really don't see the Pacers getting a great deal better than they were this year. They are built to win during the season and then taking a quick seat when the playoffs come and rotations get shortened. Now if we could get Chris Paul or someone of that ilk that would change. I just don't see it ever happening. It is a miracle that Reggie Miller spent his whole career as a Pacer......

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    Default Re: Simmons Game of Thrones/NBA FA Article

    Is this thread evidence that Granger will be the scapegoat next year? I thought it would be Hibbert or Hill, but I'm sensing an upcoming Granger hater year.

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    Default Re: Simmons Game of Thrones/NBA FA Article

    Quote Originally Posted by OlBlu View Post
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    Granger is one dimensional. He can't drive to the hoop. He is most a spot of three shooter and his defense has always been sketchy at best and apalling at worst. No, he can't guard James but you could name just about any small forward in the league and he can't guard them either.....
    He can't get the ball and get to the rim by himself, but he has ways to score inside... You don't get nearly 5 FTA/game by taking jump shots... And last year he was a willing defender... Opponent production against him was just 12.4 based on 82games.com, compared to Deng's 11.6, Gay's 13.5, and feel free to look at other defense-related stats... He limited Hedo to just 8.4 ppg on 36% shooting... While Granger isn't a lockdown defender, he is above average...
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    Bobcat fans telling us to cheer up = epic fail season
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    Default Re: Simmons Game of Thrones/NBA FA Article

    Quote Originally Posted by Noodle View Post
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    Is this thread evidence that Granger will be the scapegoat next year? I thought it would be Hibbert or Hill, but I'm sensing an upcoming Granger hater year.
    You forgot Donnie's back. He's ALWAYS the scapegoat.

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    Default Re: Simmons Game of Thrones/NBA FA Article

    Quote Originally Posted by yoadknux View Post
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    He can't get the ball and get to the rim by himself, but he has ways to score inside... You don't get nearly 5 FTA/game by taking jump shots... And last year he was a willing defender... Opponent production against him was just 12.4 based on 82games.com, compared to Deng's 11.6, Gay's 13.5, and feel free to look at other defense-related stats... He limited Hedo to just 8.4 ppg on 36% shooting... While Granger isn't a lockdown defender, he is above average...
    Five FTA per game is an example of what he lacks. A good SF gets a lot more than that. If he was a willing defender last year (and I didn't see that) it was the first year of his career where this was true. One can always bend stats to show anything but you will never bend them enough to make Granger and above average defender. How many times did he get shifted to a weaker player on defense? How many times did PG guard the player that Granger should have been trying to stop? Hedo is a shell of what he used to be. He might not have scored much more or more efficiently if Lance had been guarding him. How did he do against James? How did he do against other very good SF? I believe Granger is still by far the weakest defender of all of the starters. I would trade him and put PG there but no one will be interested in him with the contract he has. He is overpaid, under talented and a defensive liability. He has regressed every year for the last four or five years.....

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    Default Re: Simmons Game of Thrones/NBA FA Article

    Quote Originally Posted by OlBlu View Post
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    In three years, Granger is in great decline and may not be on the team. Pat Riley will keep bringing in people to the Heat to keep them on top. All of the player know that James can carry a team to a championship like no other current player. There will always be a line to join him to win a title. I just don't see this big drop in Wade's game in the next three years. Playing with James is extending his career. He used to have to carry the entire load but it is LBJ's team now and Wade does not and will not have to do as much. Now, as for the Pacers, I don't see ownership spending any money to make them more than marginally better than they are. As long as they are a playoff team that can sometimes win a round in the playoffs, management will be content. You are back to the same problems. Miami can always get a superstar to play there. We can't get one to play in Indiana and if we drafted one that turned into a superstar, we would have the same trouble Orlando has in keeping him. I really don't see the Pacers getting a great deal better than they were this year. They are built to win during the season and then taking a quick seat when the playoffs come and rotations get shortened. Now if we could get Chris Paul or someone of that ilk that would change. I just don't see it ever happening. It is a miracle that Reggie Miller spent his whole career as a Pacer......
    Granger's game is predicated on shooting and he's not going to lose that stroke. He's also fairly paid. Wade, otoh, has a game that requires that he get to the rim or be a major threat to dunk. Wade is both older and his game will not age as gracefully, so I completely disagree. The line of players looking to join him are former greats like Allen. That will help the Heat stay relevant but just like the Celtics their talent will be getting older and older. Give them 3 years and they'll start passing the geritol around.

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    Default Re: Simmons Game of Thrones/NBA FA Article

    Quote Originally Posted by yoadknux View Post
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    He can't get the ball and get to the rim by himself, but he has ways to score inside... You don't get nearly 5 FTA/game by taking jump shots... And last year he was a willing defender... Opponent production against him was just 12.4 based on 82games.com, compared to Deng's 11.6, Gay's 13.5, and feel free to look at other defense-related stats... He limited Hedo to just 8.4 ppg on 36% shooting... While Granger isn't a lockdown defender, he is above average...
    I did a little checking and you didn't mention that Granger let him shoot at 41.7% from three point land. Hedo only averaged 10.9 during the regular season and I think his scoring being down two points and his percentage on two point shots being down had a lot more to do with missing Howard than anything Granger did. He would be a lot easier to guard without Dwight drawing those double teams.....

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    Default Re: Simmons Game of Thrones/NBA FA Article

    Quote Originally Posted by Noodle View Post
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    Is this thread evidence that Granger will be the scapegoat next year? I thought it would be Hibbert or Hill, but I'm sensing an upcoming Granger hater year.
    Granger will continue his long decline and more players on the Pacers will surpass him. What is new?

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    Default Re: Simmons Game of Thrones/NBA FA Article

    Quote Originally Posted by Noodle View Post
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    Is this thread evidence that Granger will be the scapegoat next year? I thought it would be Hibbert or Hill, but I'm sensing an upcoming Granger hater year.
    He has been people's scapecoat since JOB was canned.

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    Default Re: Simmons Game of Thrones/NBA FA Article

    Quote Originally Posted by OlBlu View Post
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    Granger will continue his long decline and more players on the Pacers will surpass him. What is new?
    I rarely post, and I'm not the biggest Granger supporter in the world, but this dude is a troll if I've ever seen one.

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    Default Re: Simmons Game of Thrones/NBA FA Article

    Quote Originally Posted by kidthecat View Post
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    I rarely post, and I'm not the biggest Granger supporter in the world, but this dude is a troll if I've ever seen one.
    I am not a troll. I am just realistic about what Granger is and what he does. I don't advocate trading him for nothing but I think he is vastly overrate by Pacer fans..... You do acknowledge that he has been in decline ever since his all star year?

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    Default Re: Simmons Game of Thrones/NBA FA Article

    So if we paid Hill $6m a year and Hibbert $12m we wouldn't be the 6 seed even with the same players? I don't get it. At worst the Pacers stayed the same and no more than 2 teams who finished below the Pacers got better. 6th seed makes no sense to me.

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    Default Re: Simmons Game of Thrones/NBA FA Article

    Quote Originally Posted by OlBlu View Post
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    Granger will continue his long decline and more players on the Pacers will surpass him. What is new?
    I'm no Granger fan, but I'm no hater either. Granger actually improved his putrid defense last year and he played well in the playoffs both years. Is he a good defender? No, but he's a little above average and he's a pretty good offensive player. If he is overpaid, it's not by much. George Hill is easily just as overpaid.

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    Default Re: Simmons Game of Thrones/NBA FA Article

    Quote Originally Posted by PacersHomer View Post
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    So if we paid Hill $6m a year and Hibbert $12m we wouldn't be the 6 seed even with the same players? I don't get it. At worst the Pacers stayed the same and no more than 2 teams who finished below the Pacers got better. 6th seed makes no sense to me.
    We actually paid Hill $8m Hibbert got more like $14m but we stayed the same. What you say is not true. Boston got better by having two injured players return and adding Terry and Lee. Brooklyn became much better with the addition of Joe Johnson and the return of Brook Lopez. NY got better by getting Raymond Felton. These three teams all have superstars. The Pacers do not have any and only one marginal all star in Roy Hibbert......... It is great to be enthusiastic about the Pacers but some of you really need to keep your feet firmly on the ground and see what is really happening......

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    Default Re: Simmons Game of Thrones/NBA FA Article

    Quote Originally Posted by Major Cold View Post
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    He has been people's scapecoat since JOB was canned.
    Yes to some degree. I felt that Collison was getting the most hate last year. He's gone now and people act like we was worth something in more than one way.

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    Default Re: Simmons Game of Thrones/NBA FA Article

    Bummer our starting lineup that's 60% 25 years or younger has plateaued and won't get better whatsoever

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    Default Re: Simmons Game of Thrones/NBA FA Article

    I certainly think that, barring injuries, the Pacers will be a better team this year than last year. We have a great bench now, and the guys will have a whole year to play together. I also think Granger gets too much hate. People act like he is bad or even average. He most certainly is not, he is above average. He is not a superstar but no one is claiming he was. He is a borderline all star type guy. I think he will take fewer shots this season due to PG getting his game more together (hopefully) but he will shoot a better % than last year.

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