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Thread: Simmons Game of Thrones/NBA FA Article

  1. #76
    Play McRoberts and Price! BRushWithDeath's Avatar
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    Default Re: Simmons Game of Thrones/NBA FA Article

    Quote Originally Posted by kent beckley View Post
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    I also love that Boston got better by getting rid of Ray Allen while Miami got better by acquiring him.
    What do you love about it?

    Boston got better because Jason Terry is a better player at this stage in their careers than Ray Allen.

    Miami got better because Ray Allen is a better player at this stage in their careers than Mike Miller or James Jones.
    "I had to take her down like Chris Brown."

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  3. #77
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    Default Re: Simmons Game of Thrones/NBA FA Article

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
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    Oh yeh. I can't believe I forgot about Allen. I guess I agree with that. But Wade has logged a lot of miles and Allen too. The Heat are at the tail end of their dynasty period and if Dwight goes to LA, it's probably over.
    Tail end? Doubt that, and it pains me to say that.

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    Default Re: Simmons Game of Thrones/NBA FA Article

    Quote Originally Posted by QuickRelease View Post
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    Tail end? Doubt that, and it pains me to say that.
    Miami is just getting started. I will be stunned if they don't repeat next year. The season after next could have a new champion just because historically its challenging to make 4 finals in a row
    David "And One" West

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    Default Re: Simmons Game of Thrones/NBA FA Article

    Quote Originally Posted by Pacergeek View Post
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    Miami is just getting started. I will be stunned if they don't repeat next year. The season after next could have a new champion just because historically its challenging to make 4 finals in a row
    You piqued my curiousity. Making the finals 4 years in a row has happened 3 times in NBA history. Boston (1957-1966), L.A. Lakers (1982-1985), and Boston (1984-1987). Several teams have made it 3 times in a row, but you are correct, 4 is extremely challenging.

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    Default Re: Simmons Game of Thrones/NBA FA Article

    Quote Originally Posted by shags View Post
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    You piqued my curiousity. Making the finals 4 years in a row has happened 3 times in NBA history. Boston (1957-1966), L.A. Lakers (1982-1985), and Boston (1984-1987). Several teams have made it 3 times in a row, but you are correct, 4 is extremely challenging.
    Phil jackson just did with the lakers in the last decade.
    PG24: "Don't tell me the sky is the limit when there are footprints on the moon!"

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    Default Re: Simmons Game of Thrones/NBA FA Article

    Quote Originally Posted by danman View Post
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    Your definition of overpaid is not the usual one. Fans are comparing the contract to their prediction of the player's future value. Or put another way, you never overpay for a stock purchase because you pay the market price. Whether you "overpaid" in the eyes of others is based on their belief in its future value.
    This.
    (or rather than "future value" I'd just say "impact on winning")

    When Simmons says "overpaid", he's not talking about supply/demand. He says that a team has limited resources to build a real long term contender (in our case, 65-70 mil or whatever we are prepared to spend), and we are using too much of them on Hibbert.

    People say "Hibbert is not overpaid, it's LeBrons and Howards who are actually underpaid, they'd get 50 mil in a free market". Well, fine, but this isn't a free market, so it's moot.

    Is Simmons right or wrong, that's still a very valid question. Can we contend with this team? Do we need to add more players or an improvement from PG, before we really compete? If so, will we be able to keep this team together? And in the end, what was the better option compared to matching Hibbert? Those are valid questions.

    But we can't just say "Hibbert is not overpaid because the market set his price", I mean, that's not what Simmons is talking about here.

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    Default Re: Simmons Game of Thrones/NBA FA Article

    Quote Originally Posted by ballism View Post
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    . . . But we can't just say "Hibbert is not overpaid because the market set his price", I mean, that's not what Simmons is talking about here.
    I suspect that what simmons is really saying is. If the Celtics could sign Hibbert for the max, that would be a good signing. But since he resigned with someone else, he's overpaid. or in the short form. The grapes are sour anyway.

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  12. #83
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    Default Re: Simmons Game of Thrones/NBA FA Article

    Quote Originally Posted by Richard_Skull View Post
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    Phil jackson just did with the lakers in the last decade.
    Umm Lakers were in the 08, 09, and 10 Finals in a row. San Antonio won in 07, and Dallas won in 11.
    "It's just unfortunate that we've been penalized so much this year and nothing has happened to the Pistons, the Palace or the city of Detroit," he said. "It's almost like it's always our fault. The league knows it. They should be ashamed of themselves to let the security be as lax as it is around here."

    ----------------- Reggie Miller

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    Default Re: Simmons Game of Thrones/NBA FA Article

    Quote Originally Posted by QuickRelease View Post
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    Tail end? Doubt that, and it pains me to say that.
    They might get one more ring. It's very hard to repeat let alone win a string of championships. They were fortunate Chicago didn't have Rose. Then you have the Dwight factor and where he may land. If he becomes a Laker, the Heat are not beating them. Also, it is likely the Pacers will put up a stronger challenge....although we are not ready to knock them off. Then you have a young OKC team that will only be much tougher next year. Again, maybe one more ring but this isn't a Chicago Bulls type of dominance.

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    Default Re: Simmons Game of Thrones/NBA FA Article

    I kind of agree with Simon, at this point the Pacers are using their cap space in a bunch of role players and neither one of them are Stars(yet?) Paul George better become the reincarnation of Tmac or Kobe or the Pacers are not going to be better than the 5th seat in a long time.

    I love Hill but he is overpay by at least 3mil, Danny is overpay by 3mil, West is overpay by 3mil, Roy is overpay but as they say, "big guys are overpay in the NBA", so in total "overpay money" the Pacers are paying close to 10mil.

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    Default Re: Simmons Game of Thrones/NBA FA Article

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    I kind of agree with Simon, at this point the Pacers are using their cap space in a bunch of role players and neither one of them are Stars(yet?) Paul George better become the reincarnation of Tmac or Kobe or the Pacers are not going to be better than the 5th seat in a long time.

    I love Hill but he is overpay by at least 3mil, Danny is overpay by 3mil, West is overpay by 3mil, Roy is overpay but as they say, "big guys are overpay in the NBA", so in total "overpay money" the Pacers are paying close to 10mil.
    I think DG is paid comparably to the players that are similar to him (Deng, Iggy) and its only these last 2 yr that he's been "overpaid". West may be a tad overpaid but he comes off the books next yr and his contract isn't completely unreasonable.
    George Hill is overpaid, but he's on the same contract as Mike Conley is. They are about the same level of a player,

    My point is that people are complaining that our players are overpaid, but really they are compensated at the same market value as other comparable players.

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    Default Re: Simmons Game of Thrones/NBA FA Article

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
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    They might get one more ring. It's very hard to repeat let alone win a string of championships. They were fortunate Chicago didn't have Rose. Then you have the Dwight factor and where he may land. If he becomes a Laker, the Heat are not beating them. Also, it is likely the Pacers will put up a stronger challenge....although we are not ready to knock them off. Then you have a young OKC team that will only be much tougher next year. Again, maybe one more ring but this isn't a Chicago Bulls type of dominance.
    I can't stand Lebron James. That being said, he got a huge monkey off his back, and he can will a team to victory if he's focused on doing so. And I'm not so sure Chicago beats them at full strength.

  19. #88

    Default Re: Simmons Game of Thrones/NBA FA Article

    I think you would be hard pressed to make a legit case for us any lower than third next year. Miami then either us or Brooklyn. Boston is in major decline. And Chicago lost their depth and without rose no way they can compete. We have seen Amare and Carmelo are no good by themselves. Orlano is a mess. Philly didnt make a big jump. And Atlanta LOL

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    Default Re: Simmons Game of Thrones/NBA FA Article

    Quote Originally Posted by Mad-Mad-Mario View Post
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    Boston is in major decline.
    they are?

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    Default Re: Simmons Game of Thrones/NBA FA Article

    Quote Originally Posted by Mad-Mad-Mario View Post
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    I think you would be hard pressed to make a legit case for us any lower than third next year. Miami then either us or Brooklyn. Boston is in major decline. And Chicago lost their depth and without rose no way they can compete. We have seen Amare and Carmelo are no good by themselves. Orlano is a mess. Philly didnt make a big jump. And Atlanta LOL
    This is like the fourth year in a row where everybody wants to say Boston is done. They aren't, and will be a force again in the east.
    David "And One" West

  22. #91

    Default Re: Simmons Game of Thrones/NBA FA Article

    Boston won't decline with Rajon Rondo. He's too good to let that happen.

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    Default Re: Simmons Game of Thrones/NBA FA Article

    I sense there is some seriousness here that Boston is not declining. Paul is going to be 36 and Kevin 37 next year. That's old. The savior, Jason Terry, is going to be 35. They will be a good team, but every year that group plays is a year of decline.

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    Default Re: Simmons Game of Thrones/NBA FA Article

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
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    They might get one more ring. It's very hard to repeat let alone win a string of championships. They were fortunate Chicago didn't have Rose.
    They wiped the floor with Chicago in 2011 when Rose was at his peak and would have done so again this year.

    Miami smothers Rose on the perimeter with their suffocating D. A healthy Boston team was a much more dangerous match-up for Miami than a healthy Chicago one.

  26. #94

    Default Re: Simmons Game of Thrones/NBA FA Article

    National media guys know nothing about basketball. They always severely overrate teams like the Knicks, who any NBA fan could tell would be a 2nd round playoff exit at best, and underrate teams like the Pacers, who they never watch and know nothing about. The Pacers had one of the best starting 5s in the entire NBA. Our bench is what screwed us, and we definitely upgraded that.

    Agree with him on Hill though. That deal is just... strange.

    Hibbert deal is NOT overpaid. If everyone is willing to 'overpay' then by definition it's not 'overpaying'. It's market value.

  27. #95
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    Default Re: Simmons Game of Thrones/NBA FA Article

    Quote Originally Posted by joew8302 View Post
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    Hill is possibly overpayed.

    But please tell me how exactly Hibbert is overpayed when there were 2 other teams lining up to give him the same money.
    And Boston was willing to give West similar money, a bit less per year but they threw in a 3rd season for a guy that hadn't yet proved his knees were going to be okay.

    The idea that West is overpaid is just dumb, as well as how he's thrown into the bench group as though you have all these other role players and he's one of them. The team's best low post scorer is not an "assorted other guys" player. If Hibbert had West's low post moves he'd be Rik Smits right now and he'd be putting up 19-20 ppg at least.

    Simmons is right that the team has invested a lot in keeping the big 5 together, but he's wrong in just passing it off as meaningless right after discussing how they pushed Miami last season when a majority of that heavy lifting was done by those same starting 5.


    Think about this, if you lose West then who is playing PF and where is that 10m going that you are actually noticeably better than with West on the team?

    Really it's the same argument that was made for Roy getting 14m. If you don't pay him then just who are you going to pay to be a strong, true center at 7'+, especially at his age? You could do something different, but you couldn't do a direct replacement.

    With West you could have used Scola on a lucky break amnesty situation, but Scola on the open market would get 10m.




    The East has:
    Miami
    Nets (not proven, but I'll go with the idea that somehow Howard ends up there)
    Chicago (once Rose returns)

    Atlanta has been hurt, Boston has been hurt and it trying to retool with old Terry instead of old Ray Ray, Orlando is a disaster. Bucks were fringe last year and look to be fringe this year at best. Philly is in no-man's land and didn't prove that much last year, living off the early season home schedule hype but coming back to .500 reality later.

    Knicks have been all over the place. They might be better but a big portion of their wins came with the Lin run with Melo out and an easier schedule.

    So the Pacers looks to be going against Chicago without Rose, the Joe Johnson/Wallace Nets (enough to go from a .333 team to #3 seed?), and a similar looking muddled Knicks team for seeds 2-5, just like this year with the Magic in place of the Nets.

    If Howard doesn't get to the Nets, then you have the half-complete Magic and the half-complete Nets.



    The Pacers also have some level of stability and consistency working on their side thanks to Vogel and the starters all returning, and 3 of the 5 starters being together for several years now.

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    Default Re: Simmons Game of Thrones/NBA FA Article

    With West you could have used Scola on a lucky break amnesty situation, but Scola on the open market would get 10m.
    Scola's salary was 10mil a year and nobody wanted to trade for him, I think he is better than West and he is probably worth like 5-7 mil a year, it looks like teams agree with me because they didn't want that salary.

  29. #97
    Play McRoberts and Price! BRushWithDeath's Avatar
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    Default Re: Simmons Game of Thrones/NBA FA Article

    Quote Originally Posted by Naptown_Seth View Post
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    If Howard doesn't get to the Nets, then you have the half-complete Magic and the half-complete Nets.
    I don't really think a line-up of Deron Williams, Joe Johnson, Gerald Wallace, Kris Humphries, and Brook Lopez is half-complete.

    They've got the conference's best point guard. They've got the conference's second best two guard. They've got a borderline All-Star small forward. They've got an extremely productive power forward. They've got one of the conference's better centers.

    They're actually put together somewhat similar to us except their backcourt is much, much better and our frontcourt is marginally better.

    Miami is the only team with a better lineup in the East.

    Sure some of them are overpaid. Who cares? Playoff series aren't won by getting the best bang for your buck. They're won simply by getting the best. They could be derailed by injuries but from a sheer talent stand point, they're better than anyone outside of South Florida.
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  31. #98
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    Default Re: Simmons Game of Thrones/NBA FA Article

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    Scola's salary was 10mil a year and nobody wanted to trade for him, I think he is better than West and he is probably worth like 5-7 mil a year, it looks like teams agree with me because they didn't want that salary.
    well, the Hornets did a year ago.
    the Rockets wanted cap space now. Scola is the most valuable to win-now playoff teams, and those teams typically can't give cap space.
    i guess his value might've declined a bit (he's older, he didn't have the same year as in 2011), but I don't think he's a 6 mil guy now.

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