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    Default Simmons Game of Thrones/NBA FA Article

    Bill Simmons took some quotes from Game of Thrones and took a storyline from this year's NBA Free Agency. This is what was said about the Pacers...

    "If I die, weep for me."
    "You'll be dead. How will you know?"
    "I'll know."

    Remember the 48 hours after Game 3 of the Miami-Indiana series, when it seemed like the frisky Pacers were on the verge of (a) killing the LeBron/Wade era, and (b) sneaking into the Finals? That was fun. Now they're building around three overpaid starters Danny Granger (two years, $27.1 million), Hibbert (four years, $58 million), George Hill (five years, $40 million) a bunch of overpaid role players ($21 million next year for David West, Ian Mahinmi, D.J. Augustin and Gerald Green???) and one possible blue-chipper (Paul George, who absolutely stunk in the 2012 playoffs). Does Hallmark make "Congrats on locking down the no. 6 seed for the next few years" cards?
    I tend to agree with Simmons on this considering how much better the East is becoming, but yet it is the same team with a slightly better bench than last season and they carried us to the three seed. Again, I think it all boils down to PG tapping into his potential that will set us above everyone not named Miami or Chicago.

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    Default Re: Simmons Game of Thrones/NBA FA Article

    Pacers should be at least a number 3 seed every year for the next few years. Don't know where the number six comes from.

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    Default Re: Simmons Game of Thrones/NBA FA Article

    #3 comes from the fact that other teams are improving. People are already assuming the nets will be a top 4 seed. Also people believe that the condensed schedule benefited the Pacers and a normal schedule will not see that same record replicated.

    Not saying I believe all that but the is the perception right now I believe.

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    Default Re: Simmons Game of Thrones/NBA FA Article

    Simmons is always wrong when it comes to his predictions. This is actually good news that he is ripping the Pacers
    David "And One" West

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    Default Re: Simmons Game of Thrones/NBA FA Article

    Quote Originally Posted by Wilk39 View Post
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    Bill Simmons took some quotes from Game of Thrones and took a storyline from this year's NBA Free Agency. This is what was said about the Pacers...



    I tend to agree with Simmons on this considering how much better the East is becoming, but yet it is the same team with a slightly better bench than last season and they carried us to the three seed. Again, I think it all boils down to PG tapping into his potential that will set us above everyone not named Miami or Chicago.
    I too agree with him. The Pacers only real hope of improving is for PG to turn into a star this year. If he stays at the same level, they lose spots to teams who did improve their starters. Our bench is a notch better but that won't help when it comes down to crunch time in the playoffs. The superstars just pummel our nonstars.... I disagee with him about Hibbert, I don't think he is over paid at all. Look at what Brook Lopez got. I agree that Granger is WAY overpaid for someone who is sliding a bit every year and still is still a one dimensional player. Hill may be overpaid but not by much and another team would have made him cost that much. I like that he tied up for five years and we can see what he can really do........

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    Default Re: Simmons Game of Thrones/NBA FA Article

    Quote Originally Posted by OlBlu View Post
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    I too agree with him. The Pacers only real hope of improving is for PG to turn into a star this year. If he stays at the same level, they lose spots to teams who did improve their starters. Our bench is a notch better but that won't help when it comes down to crunch time in the playoffs. The superstars just pummel our nonstars.... I disagee with him about Hibbert, I don't think he is over paid at all. Look at what Brook Lopez got. I agree that Granger is WAY overpaid for someone who is sliding a bit every year and still is still a one dimensional player. Hill may be overpaid but not by much and another team would have made him cost that much. I like that he tied up for five years and we can see what he can really do........
    Granger is not one dimensional. On offense he has many different ways of scoring, whether it's getting to the line, posting up smaller forwards or using his range. And on defense he does a decent job of guarding 3's, can defend some 4's and 2's. I agree his shooting was way off last year, but his defense wasn't bad, and yeah, he can't stop Lebron, but name a player in the league that can...
    Quote Originally Posted by Piston Prince
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    Bobcat fans telling us to cheer up = epic fail season
    "Josh Smith Re-building the city of Detroit one brick at a time"

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    Default Re: Simmons Game of Thrones/NBA FA Article

    Quote Originally Posted by yoadknux View Post
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    Granger is not one dimensional. On offense he has many different ways of scoring, whether it's getting to the line, posting up smaller forwards or using his range. And on defense he does a decent job of guarding 3's, can defend some 4's and 2's. I agree his shooting was way off last year, but his defense wasn't bad, and yeah, he can't stop Lebron, but name a player in the league that can...
    Granger is one dimensional. He can't drive to the hoop. He is most a spot of three shooter and his defense has always been sketchy at best and apalling at worst. No, he can't guard James but you could name just about any small forward in the league and he can't guard them either.....

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    Default Re: Simmons Game of Thrones/NBA FA Article

    Quote Originally Posted by OlBlu View Post
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    Granger is one dimensional. He can't drive to the hoop. He is most a spot of three shooter and his defense has always been sketchy at best and apalling at worst. No, he can't guard James but you could name just about any small forward in the league and he can't guard them either.....
    He can't get the ball and get to the rim by himself, but he has ways to score inside... You don't get nearly 5 FTA/game by taking jump shots... And last year he was a willing defender... Opponent production against him was just 12.4 based on 82games.com, compared to Deng's 11.6, Gay's 13.5, and feel free to look at other defense-related stats... He limited Hedo to just 8.4 ppg on 36% shooting... While Granger isn't a lockdown defender, he is above average...
    Quote Originally Posted by Piston Prince
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    Bobcat fans telling us to cheer up = epic fail season
    "Josh Smith Re-building the city of Detroit one brick at a time"

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    Default Re: Simmons Game of Thrones/NBA FA Article

    Quote Originally Posted by yoadknux View Post
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    He can't get the ball and get to the rim by himself, but he has ways to score inside... You don't get nearly 5 FTA/game by taking jump shots... And last year he was a willing defender... Opponent production against him was just 12.4 based on 82games.com, compared to Deng's 11.6, Gay's 13.5, and feel free to look at other defense-related stats... He limited Hedo to just 8.4 ppg on 36% shooting... While Granger isn't a lockdown defender, he is above average...
    Five FTA per game is an example of what he lacks. A good SF gets a lot more than that. If he was a willing defender last year (and I didn't see that) it was the first year of his career where this was true. One can always bend stats to show anything but you will never bend them enough to make Granger and above average defender. How many times did he get shifted to a weaker player on defense? How many times did PG guard the player that Granger should have been trying to stop? Hedo is a shell of what he used to be. He might not have scored much more or more efficiently if Lance had been guarding him. How did he do against James? How did he do against other very good SF? I believe Granger is still by far the weakest defender of all of the starters. I would trade him and put PG there but no one will be interested in him with the contract he has. He is overpaid, under talented and a defensive liability. He has regressed every year for the last four or five years.....

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    Default Re: Simmons Game of Thrones/NBA FA Article

    Quote Originally Posted by yoadknux View Post
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    He can't get the ball and get to the rim by himself, but he has ways to score inside... You don't get nearly 5 FTA/game by taking jump shots... And last year he was a willing defender... Opponent production against him was just 12.4 based on 82games.com, compared to Deng's 11.6, Gay's 13.5, and feel free to look at other defense-related stats... He limited Hedo to just 8.4 ppg on 36% shooting... While Granger isn't a lockdown defender, he is above average...
    I did a little checking and you didn't mention that Granger let him shoot at 41.7% from three point land. Hedo only averaged 10.9 during the regular season and I think his scoring being down two points and his percentage on two point shots being down had a lot more to do with missing Howard than anything Granger did. He would be a lot easier to guard without Dwight drawing those double teams.....

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    Default Re: Simmons Game of Thrones/NBA FA Article

    Quote Originally Posted by OlBlu View Post
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    Granger is one dimensional. He can't drive to the hoop. He is most a spot of three shooter and his defense has always been sketchy at best and apalling at worst. No, he can't guard James but you could name just about any small forward in the league and he can't guard them either.....
    Instead of the "Thanks" option, I wish there was a "Your post is stupid" option.

    Granger drives and pulls up all the time and he's a very good defender. Nobody can guard Lebron but your comments about him not being able to guard others is absurd.

    Oh wait... you think Boston has improved significantly with the additions of Jason Terry/Courtney Lee and that the Nets totally rebuilt their team with the addition of one guy, Joe Johnson.

    I'm sorry but you're delusional and I view your opinions as awful.

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    Default Re: Simmons Game of Thrones/NBA FA Article

    Quote Originally Posted by TOP View Post
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    Instead of the "Thanks" option, I wish there was a "Your post is stupid" option.

    Granger drives and pulls up all the time and he's a very good defender. Nobody can guard Lebron but your comments about him not being able to guard others is absurd.

    Oh wait... you think Boston has improved significantly with the additions of Jason Terry/Courtney Lee and that the Nets totally rebuilt their team with the addition of one guy, Joe Johnson.

    I'm sorry but you're delusional and I view your opinions as awful.
    I could not care less what your view is. Granger cannot drive, he can't handle the damned basketball. That is the biggest weakness in his offensive game. He is a spot of three shooter for the most part. Granger's defense has been panned ever since he has been in the league. Coach K wouldn't let him see the floor in the World Championship games because Danny could not or would not defend.... I think that Boston's aquisitions and the return of two injured players makes them significantly better. Joe Johnson is a great player but they are also getting Brook Lopez back and they have made other moves. So, yes, I think that the nets have improved to the point that I would rate them ahead of the Pacers. There are other posters here who say the same thing. Do you take them all to task? You have not made one post yet that offers any true facts nor do you make any insightful analysis...... Perhaps you are a troll.......

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    Default Re: Simmons Game of Thrones/NBA FA Article

    Quote Originally Posted by TOP View Post
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    Oh wait... you think Boston has improved significantly with the additions of Jason Terry/Courtney Lee and that the Nets totally rebuilt their team with the addition of one guy, Joe Johnson.
    the Celtics will also add Jeff Green and Sullinger, who looks ready, plus a few minor pieces.

    I don't know if they are better, as always they depend on health. If Bradley recovers, if their vets are as good as last season, they've upgraded. In that case they would be probably the deepest team in the league. 9 guys who are starter level or close (KG,Rondo, PP, Bass, Lee, Terry, Green, Sullinger, Bradley).

    the Nets did very close to a total rebuild. They'll add Joe Johnson, they'll basically replace Shelden Williams with Brook Lopez (assuming health) and they'll have 4 times more of Gerald Wallace who played less than 25% of games for them last season.
    And while I'm not a big fan of Teletovic, I think he's a 5 times better player than Johan Petro, who was their main big off the bench last year.
    Also, Deron may be healthier.

    I don't consider them a major regular season force. It will take time for them to build good chemistry. It will take time for Teletovic to adjust to NBA basketball. Also, Brook Lopez may be very rusty at the start. And psychologically, they are likely to be bothered by Dwight rumors until the deadline.
    I expect ~45 wins.
    But I think they will be very dangerous in the playoffs. If we are #3 and the Nets are #6, I won't feel easy at all.
    Last edited by ballism; 07-21-2012 at 06:34 PM.

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    Default Re: Simmons Game of Thrones/NBA FA Article

    Quote Originally Posted by OlBlu View Post
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    Granger is one dimensional. He can't drive to the hoop. He is most a spot of three shooter and his defense has always been sketchy at best and apalling at worst. No, he can't guard James but you could name just about any small forward in the league and he can't guard them either.....
    Idc what anyone says, you can't average over 18 ppg for 4-5 straight seasons and be one dimensional. Is he streaky? YES. Could he stand to find other ways to score? YES. But DG is a bonafide scorer in this league. To be honest I think Danny plays good defense, but often times loses his focus. At this point he is what he is, a streaky scorer who relies on spot up situations and straight drives to the hoop. Is he overpaid at 13 mil? Maybe. But he's a bargain when you look at comparable players (Rudy Gay, Joe Johnson). His contract stacks right up with Deng and Iggy where it should be.

    On a seperate note, I just don't think that 21 million for 4 players (one of which is our second best player) is a bad deal at all.

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    Default Re: Simmons Game of Thrones/NBA FA Article

    Quote Originally Posted by yoadknux View Post
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    Granger is not one dimensional. On offense he has many different ways of scoring, whether it's getting to the line, posting up smaller forwards or using his range. And on defense he does a decent job of guarding 3's, can defend some 4's and 2's. I agree his shooting was way off last year, but his defense wasn't bad, and yeah, he can't stop Lebron, but name a player in the league that can...
    LeBron James....
    I'm a Beast

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    Default Re: Simmons Game of Thrones/NBA FA Article

    Quote Originally Posted by PaulGeorge View Post
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    LeBron James....
    Hey.......

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    Default Re: Simmons Game of Thrones/NBA FA Article

    I agree that the Pacers "big 3" are overpaid, mainly Hill. Granger and Hibbert are probably a little overpriced but not severe plus it's Indiana, to have players like that you got to overspend.

    West really distortes his other point since he makes about half of that 21 million, which yeah is probably too much, but again proves the point Indy has to spend extra to attract free agents, plus he only has 1 more year anyway.

    I think the Pacers will be anywhere from 3-6 seed but overall it won't be enough to ever make the Finals cause Miami will always be in the way.
    "It's just unfortunate that we've been penalized so much this year and nothing has happened to the Pistons, the Palace or the city of Detroit," he said. "It's almost like it's always our fault. The league knows it. They should be ashamed of themselves to let the security be as lax as it is around here."

    ----------------- Reggie Miller

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    Default Re: Simmons Game of Thrones/NBA FA Article

    Hill is possibly overpayed.

    But please tell me how exactly Hibbert is overpayed when there were 2 other teams lining up to give him the same money.

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    Default Re: Simmons Game of Thrones/NBA FA Article

    Quote Originally Posted by joew8302 View Post
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    Hill is possibly overpayed.

    But please tell me how exactly Hibbert is overpayed when there were 2 other teams lining up to give him the same money.
    Because they were willing to overpay him also?

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    Default Re: Simmons Game of Thrones/NBA FA Article

    Quote Originally Posted by Pace Maker View Post
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    Because they were willing to overpay him also?
    Sorry bud, thats not economics 101.

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    Default Re: Simmons Game of Thrones/NBA FA Article

    Quote Originally Posted by joew8302 View Post
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    Hill is possibly overpayed.

    But please tell me how exactly Hibbert is overpayed when there were 2 other teams lining up to give him the same money.
    And Boston was willing to give West similar money, a bit less per year but they threw in a 3rd season for a guy that hadn't yet proved his knees were going to be okay.

    The idea that West is overpaid is just dumb, as well as how he's thrown into the bench group as though you have all these other role players and he's one of them. The team's best low post scorer is not an "assorted other guys" player. If Hibbert had West's low post moves he'd be Rik Smits right now and he'd be putting up 19-20 ppg at least.

    Simmons is right that the team has invested a lot in keeping the big 5 together, but he's wrong in just passing it off as meaningless right after discussing how they pushed Miami last season when a majority of that heavy lifting was done by those same starting 5.


    Think about this, if you lose West then who is playing PF and where is that 10m going that you are actually noticeably better than with West on the team?

    Really it's the same argument that was made for Roy getting 14m. If you don't pay him then just who are you going to pay to be a strong, true center at 7'+, especially at his age? You could do something different, but you couldn't do a direct replacement.

    With West you could have used Scola on a lucky break amnesty situation, but Scola on the open market would get 10m.




    The East has:
    Miami
    Nets (not proven, but I'll go with the idea that somehow Howard ends up there)
    Chicago (once Rose returns)

    Atlanta has been hurt, Boston has been hurt and it trying to retool with old Terry instead of old Ray Ray, Orlando is a disaster. Bucks were fringe last year and look to be fringe this year at best. Philly is in no-man's land and didn't prove that much last year, living off the early season home schedule hype but coming back to .500 reality later.

    Knicks have been all over the place. They might be better but a big portion of their wins came with the Lin run with Melo out and an easier schedule.

    So the Pacers looks to be going against Chicago without Rose, the Joe Johnson/Wallace Nets (enough to go from a .333 team to #3 seed?), and a similar looking muddled Knicks team for seeds 2-5, just like this year with the Magic in place of the Nets.

    If Howard doesn't get to the Nets, then you have the half-complete Magic and the half-complete Nets.



    The Pacers also have some level of stability and consistency working on their side thanks to Vogel and the starters all returning, and 3 of the 5 starters being together for several years now.

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    Default Re: Simmons Game of Thrones/NBA FA Article

    With West you could have used Scola on a lucky break amnesty situation, but Scola on the open market would get 10m.
    Scola's salary was 10mil a year and nobody wanted to trade for him, I think he is better than West and he is probably worth like 5-7 mil a year, it looks like teams agree with me because they didn't want that salary.

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    Default Re: Simmons Game of Thrones/NBA FA Article

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    Scola's salary was 10mil a year and nobody wanted to trade for him, I think he is better than West and he is probably worth like 5-7 mil a year, it looks like teams agree with me because they didn't want that salary.
    well, the Hornets did a year ago.
    the Rockets wanted cap space now. Scola is the most valuable to win-now playoff teams, and those teams typically can't give cap space.
    i guess his value might've declined a bit (he's older, he didn't have the same year as in 2011), but I don't think he's a 6 mil guy now.

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    Default Re: Simmons Game of Thrones/NBA FA Article

    Quote Originally Posted by Naptown_Seth View Post
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    If Howard doesn't get to the Nets, then you have the half-complete Magic and the half-complete Nets.
    I don't really think a line-up of Deron Williams, Joe Johnson, Gerald Wallace, Kris Humphries, and Brook Lopez is half-complete.

    They've got the conference's best point guard. They've got the conference's second best two guard. They've got a borderline All-Star small forward. They've got an extremely productive power forward. They've got one of the conference's better centers.

    They're actually put together somewhat similar to us except their backcourt is much, much better and our frontcourt is marginally better.

    Miami is the only team with a better lineup in the East.

    Sure some of them are overpaid. Who cares? Playoff series aren't won by getting the best bang for your buck. They're won simply by getting the best. They could be derailed by injuries but from a sheer talent stand point, they're better than anyone outside of South Florida.
    "I had to take her down like Chris Brown."

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    Default Re: Simmons Game of Thrones/NBA FA Article

    All I'm saying here is that every single year reporters talk about how all of these other teams have improved significantly, yet they never make the leap. I think the Nets will the a replicate of the Wizards back when their 'big three' was finally healthy again. Yeah, they had bigger problems than on the court, but they weren't good on the court either. Then you see that the Hawks and Sixers have lost talent while Boston lost one of their centerfolds, and all the while the Knicks aren't going to do anything more than last year and on top of that they've lost Lin.

    Same story, different year.

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