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Thread: How do you like our new/old FO so far?

  1. #126
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    Default Re: How do you like our new/old FO so far?

    Quote Originally Posted by BillS View Post
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    Which ones did they pass on that they had any kind of chance at getting if they had not said they were signing Hibbert and Hill? Who was left on the block the date they ACTUALLY signed Hibbert and Hill that they could still have gotten for a non-ridiculous price?

    I think they overpaid by a couple million for Hill, but if they had NOT re-signed Hibbert then I suspect Portland would have been touted as the biggest FA signing of the year - and you guys would be talking about how the FO didn't want to spend any money at all.
    Scola? Brand? they were there for the Pacers to take and decided not to do it.

  2. #127

    Default Re: How do you like our new/old FO so far?

    I can't complain too much with what the Pacers did. Sure I can sit here and nit pick and say they shouldn't have drafted Miles or that they overpaid for Hill and Hibbert but at the end of the day I like what they did overall. I love the addition of Gerald Green and I think DJ was a nice addition to replace Darren Collison. I am not sold on Ian Mahinmi but he will be better than Lou. I think the Pacers are going to be a better basketball team next year than they were this past year.

    The new front office faces a tough task next summer when deciding on what to do with David West. He will be a free agent and 32 years old. Even though his numbers don't back it up I think he had a quality year as a starting power forward but I don't expect him to be able to keep that up for long. I think he can be a very good backup though and is worth re-signing. Who do you replace him with in the starting lineup though? It is very important for the Pacers to have, at the least, a good player at every position in the starting five. The Miami Heat don't have to do this because they have Lebron but the Pacers do. Part of the reason Roy was so interested in Portland was playing with a top power forward in LaMarcus Aldridge. I am a little worried on how this will play out.

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  4. #128
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    Default Re: How do you like our new/old FO so far?

    The interesting thing will be next offseason.

    West comes off the books
    Pendergraph comes off the books
    Hans probably comes off the books, he'll be a RFA, and I doubt he is back unless he has a stellar season. Personally, if Ian/Plumlee do well, I hope Hans is just traded.

    So the Pacers could have 0 PFs next season, if we aren't considering Ian a PF.

    Millsap and Jefferson will be UFA. I do hope West resigns though.

    That's all a long way off. Although I haven't liked the Pacers offseason as a whole, I'm truly looking forward to watching this team on the court. Should be a lot of fun.
    Last edited by Sparhawk; 07-22-2012 at 09:13 PM.
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  5. #129
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    Default Re: How do you like our new/old FO so far?

    Quote Originally Posted by Young View Post
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    I can't complain too much with what the Pacers did. Sure I can sit here and nit pick and say they shouldn't have drafted Miles or that they overpaid for Hill and Hibbert but at the end of the day I like what they did overall. I love the addition of Gerald Green and I think DJ was a nice addition to replace Darren Collison. I am not sold on Ian Mahinmi but he will be better than Lou. I think the Pacers are going to be a better basketball team next year than they were this past year.

    The new front office faces a tough task next summer when deciding on what to do with David West. He will be a free agent and 32 years old. Even though his numbers don't back it up I think he had a quality year as a starting power forward but I don't expect him to be able to keep that up for long. I think he can be a very good backup though and is worth re-signing. Who do you replace him with in the starting lineup though? It is very important for the Pacers to have, at the least, a good player at every position in the starting five. The Miami Heat don't have to do this because they have Lebron but the Pacers do. Part of the reason Roy was so interested in Portland was playing with a top power forward in LaMarcus Aldridge. I am a little worried on how this will play out.
    Hibbert was interested because Portland was offering him a max contract. He would have been just as interested in any team that would do that.....

  6. #130
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    Default Re: How do you like our new/old FO so far?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sparhawk View Post
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    The interesting thing will be next offseason.

    West comes off the books
    Pendergraph comes off the books
    Hans probably comes off the books, he'll be a RFA, and I doubt he is back unless he has a stellar season. Personally, if Ian/Plumlee do well, I hope Hans is just traded.

    So the Pacers could have 0 PFs next season, if we aren't considering Ian a PF.

    Millsap and Jefferson will be UFA. I do hope West resigns though.

    That's all a long way off. Although I haven't liked the Pacers offseason as a whole, I'm truly looking forward to watching this team on the court. Should be a lot of fun.
    That is not a long way off and should be planned for now. I think they will keep Tyler and let West go unless the contract is smaller and he will get a bigger offer to go elsewhere now that he has shown his knees are healed. Hibbert can be a good backup playing with the right second unit. I expect him to be more productive this year. I think we will be looking to draft a starting PF or signing or trading for one. We can't trade for one without disrupting the starters. I don't think Granger can bring you a starting PF any more.....

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    Default Re: How do you like our new/old FO so far?

    No chance they keep Tyler i cant see it he will never be our PF of the future. hopefully they trade him so they at least get something in return rather than letting him walk

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    Default Re: How do you like our new/old FO so far?

    I expect us to re-sign West for 3 more years and use the rest of the cap space in another bench player, Josh Smith, Monta and others are going to be free agents but the Pacers don't like to go after those.

  9. #133
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    Default Re: How do you like our new/old FO so far?

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    Scola? Brand? they were there for the Pacers to take and decided not to do it.
    They are not on the top-20 list, which is how I was trying to separate "high profile" FA signing from FA signings like Augustin and Green. What is your definition of a "major" FA signing? It starts to sound a bit like a "major" move is any move you wanted them to make, and any other move doesn't count.
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  10. #134
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    Default Re: How do you like our new/old FO so far?

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    I expect us to re-sign West for 3 more years and use the rest of the cap space in another bench player, Josh Smith, Monta and others are going to be free agents but the Pacers don't like to go after those.
    I don't think that's possible. West's cap hold will pretty much eat up our cap space. So it's either go over the cap re-sign West (and/or Augustin) using exceptions, or sign a FA using cap space, not both.

    Quote Originally Posted by BillS View Post
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    They are not on the top-20 list, which is how I was trying to separate "high profile" FA signing from FA signings like Augustin and Green. What is your definition of a "major" FA signing? It starts to sound a bit like a "major" move is any move you wanted them to make, and any other move doesn't count.
    Scola's amnesty waiver was extremely surprising. I'll bet no one anticipated that. If anyone did, he'd easily be on their top 20 FA list. I'm not so sure about Brand, but I think he's arguable too when you consider the dirt cheap contract he ended up on.

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  12. #135
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    Default Re: How do you like our new/old FO so far?

    Quote Originally Posted by wintermute View Post
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    Scola's amnesty waiver was extremely surprising. I'll bet no one anticipated that. If anyone did, he'd easily be on their top 20 FA list. I'm not so sure about Brand, but I think he's arguable too when you consider the dirt cheap contract he ended up on.
    Thanks. So, re-thinking this, can you really call "not stalling re-signing your own FAs in case someone good gets amnestied" the same as "not going after high profile FAs?" We're starting to throw an awful lot of potential deals under the heading of "don't go after major FAs" (or, as sarcasted from vnzla81 above, not going after FAs at all).

    Do we have any good source to tell us the Pacers definitely did or definitely did not bid on those two anyway? I don't remember when we actually signed Hill & Hibbert but I would think we would still have been under the cap to bid on Brand at least.
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  13. #136
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    Default Re: How do you like our new/old FO so far?

    Quote Originally Posted by BillS View Post
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    Thanks. So, re-thinking this, can you really call "not stalling re-signing your own FAs in case someone good gets amnestied" the same as "not going after high profile FAs?" We're starting to throw an awful lot of potential deals under the heading of "don't go after major FAs" (or, as sarcasted from vnzla81 above, not going after FAs at all).

    Do we have any good source to tell us the Pacers definitely did or definitely did not bid on those two anyway? I don't remember when we actually signed Hill & Hibbert but I would think we would still have been under the cap to bid on Brand at least.
    Oh, ok. I didn't quite understand the point you and vnzla81 were discussing. But yeah, that's not the same as "not going after a major FA". However, I still think it's a bit of a failure in foresight by TPTB not to wait out the amnesty period, which after all is only for a week and not for some open-ended time period.

    I believe Hibbert and Hill were officially signed just before the winner of the Brand bidding was announced. So it's possible that we have put in a bid, I guess, but the timing is a bit suspect. And KP's interview seemed to indicate that we didn't make any amnesty bid at all (but were considering to do so).

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  15. #137
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    Default Re: How do you like our new/old FO so far?

    Quote Originally Posted by BillS View Post
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    Thanks. So, re-thinking this, can you really call "not stalling re-signing your own FAs in case someone good gets amnestied" the same as "not going after high profile FAs?" We're starting to throw an awful lot of potential deals under the heading of "don't go after major FAs" (or, as sarcasted from vnzla81 above, not going after FAs at all).

    Do we have any good source to tell us the Pacers definitely did or definitely did not bid on those two anyway? I don't remember when we actually signed Hill & Hibbert but I would think we would still have been under the cap to bid on Brand at least.
    Pritchard said on the radio that the Pacers were monitoring Brand and Scola but didn't have time to bid on either guy, so the didn't even bid.

  16. #138
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    Default Re: How do you like our new/old FO so far?

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    Pritchard said on the radio that the Pacers were monitoring Brand and Scola but didn't have time to bid on either guy, so the didn't even bid.
    Interesting. Did he elaborate on "didn't have time" - was it because of the agreed signing dates for Hibbert/Hill?
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  17. #139

    Default Re: How do you like our new/old FO so far?

    Quote Originally Posted by BillS View Post
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    Interesting. Did he elaborate on "didn't have time" - was it because of the agreed signing dates for Hibbert/Hill?
    To slightly paraphrase, he said that they looked at amnestied guys early on, but there were timing issues. Hill and Hibbert were the priorities (he added they wanted to get them done), and when they were done that evaporated the cap space. He said if the players had been amnestied earlier in the week they would have had a chance at them, and they were keeping a super close eye on the wire to see if that happened or not.

    Reading between the lines especially because the press conference was on Friday afternoon, my guess is that the agents for Hill or Hibbert pushed to get things done by the end of the week, and the front office agreed to that. That's just speculation, but it seems to fit the available evidence, especially because Pritchard implied they were willing to bid if the amnesty process/timing had been a little different.

    You can hear the interview here:

    http://www.1070thefan.com/podcast/Ep....aspx?PID=2161 (page 3 currently, Kevin Pritchard Interview 07/13/12, amnesty question is around the 4:15 left mark)

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  19. #140

    Default Re: How do you like our new/old FO so far?

    I'll say it just once more and then I'll be done with the negativity regarding the front office. I'd give them a D- or F. I think we had two possible strategies that would've worked out. One was spend available money on an impact-making player and the other was to be patient and get fillers after their market price dwindled.

    Instead, we spent money on bench players that might make us better for one season while unnecessarily giving up assets, missing on impact-making players that happened to also be available at bargain basement prices, and signing a player that makes our already questionable draft pick even more questionable. And we overpaid to retain both Hill and Hibbert, and I really doubt a team was going to step up and pay Hill $8M/year for 4 years, but we did it for 5. And the D.J. Augustin situation played out terribly. If he plays poorly, then we're back at the drawing board again next season. If he plays really well, then we're extremely likely to lose him as an unrestricted free agent because of the amount of money we'd be able to offer him, also putting us back at the drawing board.

    OJ Mayo at $4M to the Mavs. Scola at $3.5M to the Suns. Brand at a low amount to the Mavs. Ian Mahinmi at $4M to the Pacers.

    The one good move we made was Green. That's it. Plumlee? Don't get me started.

    It was the offseason that could've been, and I think we swung, missed and fell down. We'll still be a good team, but no longer a good team in one hell of a good position. DJ Augustin, Gerald Green and Ian Mahinmi... I'm 100% sure this isn't what Bird was thinking when he was patient all those years about conserving our capspace.

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  21. #141

    Default Re: How do you like our new/old FO so far?

    Quote Originally Posted by imawhat View Post
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    OJ Mayo at $4M to the Mavs. Scola at $3.5M to the Suns. Brand at a low amount to the Mavs. Ian Mahinmi at $4M to the Pacers.
    With the way this league is going, I prefer a 25 year old Mahinmi at roughly the same price as a 33 year old Brand or Scola at back-up power forward and center.

  22. #142

    Default Re: How do you like our new/old FO so far?

    Quote Originally Posted by King Tuts Tomb View Post
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    With the way this league is going, I prefer a 25 year old Mahinmi at roughly the same price as a 33 year old Brand or Scola at back-up power forward and center.
    Agreed.

    Question is why didn't the Mavs? Or maybe they were only willing to let him walk if they could get a decent starting quality PG in return. Who knows?

    Brand and Scola are nice players, but pretty old, a (starting to be) liability on defense and not really that great on offense.

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  24. #143

    Default Re: How do you like our new/old FO so far?

    Quote Originally Posted by MvPlumlee View Post
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    Question is why didn't the Mavs?
    For that team, I think Brand is a better fit. Brendan Wright made Mahinmi a bit redundant last season. What they needed, and what we already have in abundance, is a low post scorer to compliment Dirk. What we needed, and what the Mavs had enough to spare, was athleticism and size at the back-up forward and center positions. Both teams got what they needed, at a really good price.

    I've always liked Brand, Scola and Mahinmi, so I would have been more than happy to get any of them. In my opinion Mahinmi is a far better fit for this particular Pacer team right now though, which is why I'm so pleased with this off-season.

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  26. #144

    Default Re: How do you like our new/old FO so far?

    Quote Originally Posted by King Tuts Tomb View Post
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    With the way this league is going, I prefer a 25 year old Mahinmi at roughly the same price as a 33 year old Brand or Scola at back-up power forward and center.
    I really like scola and getting him in B&G would be great, but once Roy and Hill were signed, there was no chance to bid on him. Brand, not to much. IMO, he's done. His value is about what he's being paid.

  27. #145

    Default Re: How do you like our new/old FO so far?

    Quote Originally Posted by MvPlumlee View Post
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    . . . Question is why didn't the Mavs? Or maybe they were only willing to let him walk if they could get a decent starting quality PG in return. Who knows?

    Brand and Scola are nice players, but pretty old, a (starting to be) liability on defense and not really that great on offense.
    IIRC, the Mav's are interested in short term contracts. Mahinmi would require a multi-year contract. Cuban doesn't want to spend money long term right now. He's gone on the NBA equivalent of a snipe hunt. The search for a big FA next summer.

  28. #146
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    Default Re: How do you like our new/old FO so far?

    Quote Originally Posted by OlBlu View Post
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    That is the worst stat in basketball and it means absolutely nothing. If you really think the starters outplayed Miami and they got well off of the bench, what happened in the last five mintues of all of those games when James and Wade took over and willed that team to win...... What was James' plus, something like 47? You think he got that all against our subs? I'll go even further. If out second team were the same players as the first team, Miami still wins. Get it in your head. James beat the Pacers all by himself.....
    No team in the league was able stop James last year and as long as he has those abilities no team will. For a team to beat the Heat they will have to be able execute their offense to offset what Lebron does. Then you at least have a shot at beating them. That is where the Pacers hope lies, not with stopping Lebron. Wade is not near as big a threat and Bosh can be neutralized also.
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  30. #147
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    Default Re: How do you like our new/old FO so far?

    I'm really shocked at the number of people giving the moves made by our F.O. a thumbs up. I know it's just an opinion but I just can't understand it.
    We had a summer that would have been decent for a team dealing with only the MLE but it's terrible for playoff team with cap space.
    We gave up assets for a player that we could have signed for nothing. We made a slight upgrade at our backup pg, and signed a decent backup wing player.
    If anyone thinks Ian is the answer as our backup center, they didn't see him in the playoffs. He shows potential but he's weak, doesn't protect the rim or guard in the post, is a poor to mediocre rebounder and scorer. I honestly think that Solomon Jones is the better player today. Ian may develop but he's been in the league for 5 years so I think the odds are against it. I wouldn't have wanted him on more then a 2 year contract even if we signed him outright without giving up an asset for him. I guess I'm against the Ian trade from every aspect, it just doesn't make sense to me when better players were available for less if the F.O. didn't let themselves be cornered to where time wasn't on their side by our free agent signings. I see a mismanagement of the teams assets and mismanagement of time that I don't think Bird would have made

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  32. #148
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    Default Re: How do you like our new/old FO so far?

    Quote Originally Posted by King Tuts Tomb View Post
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    With the way this league is going, I prefer a 25 year old Mahinmi at roughly the same price as a 33 year old Brand or Scola at back-up power forward and center.
    Ian doesn't score, doesn't rebound and doesn't defend in the post. If you mean he's a quick athletic big man for guarding perimeter bigs, I guess I could give him that edge but I'd never, ever want Ian over Scola. I don't see our 4/5 rotation issues as being addressed at all during this offseason. We still need someone who can put the ball through the net, rebound and defend the post when Roy and West sit down, or at the very least do some of those things. Can you imagine the offensive production we'd get from our front court if Ian and Plumlee are on the court together?
    Personally I'd much rather have had Kaman for 8 mil and give him all the backup 4/5 minutes then to have Ian for the next 4 years at 4 mil per year.
    If we needed more cap space, I'm sure it would have been easy to dump DC for a 2cd. and I think he could have brought us a 1st. if the team took their time.

  33. #149

    Default Re: How do you like our new/old FO so far?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pacerized View Post
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    Ian doesn't score, doesn't rebound and doesn't defend in the post. If you mean he's a quick athletic big man for guarding perimeter bigs, I guess I could give him that edge but I'd never, ever want Ian over Scola. I don't see our 4/5 rotation issues as being addressed at all during this offseason. We still need someone who can put the ball through the net, rebound and defend the post when Roy and West sit down, or at the very least do some of those things. Can you imagine the offensive production we'd get from our front court if Ian and Plumlee are on the court together?
    Personally I'd much rather have had Kaman for 8 mil and give him all the backup 4/5 minutes then to have Ian for the next 4 years at 4 mil per year.
    If we needed more cap space, I'm sure it would have been easy to dump DC for a 2cd. and I think he could have brought us a 1st. if the team took their time.
    Mahinmi never got any real minutes until last season because he had a strong front court in front of him and he was a young guy on championship contending teams. His per-36 numbers aren't bad and I wouldn't be surprised if he puts up around 8-7 this year with more minutes and more responsibility. He's got the tools to get points when he gets the chance. I like his jumper and he's active on the court. I have high hopes that he'll be a solid part of our rotation going forward, especially working every day in practice against Roy and West.

    As for Collison netting us a first. I'll take your word for it but I don't see the market there. What team in this league do you see giving up a first for Collison?

  34. #150
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    Default Re: How do you like our new/old FO so far?

    Quote Originally Posted by King Tuts Tomb View Post
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    Mahinmi never got any real minutes until last season because he had a strong front court in front of him and he was a young guy on championship contending teams. His per-36 numbers aren't bad and I wouldn't be surprised if he puts up around 8-7 this year with more minutes and more responsibility. He's got the tools to get points when he gets the chance. I like his jumper and he's active on the court. I have high hopes that he'll be a solid part of our rotation going forward, especially working every day in practice against Roy and West.

    As for Collison netting us a first. I'll take your word for it but I don't see the market there. What team in this league do you see giving up a first for Collison?
    Off the top of my head I'd think that Dallas, the Hornets, or the Knicks before the grabbed Felton might have given up a 1st. DC is a starter on a lot of teams or at the very least a backup getting starters minutes. The way Cuban fleeced us on the Ian trade he should have thrown in a pick anyway IMO.
    I know big men can take time to develop, but Ian isn't that young. All I saw of his play last year was in the playoffs but I don't think his ceiling is very high as an nba player. From what I see he isn't even at the Solomon Jones level yet. He's played is career to date practicing against Tim Duncan and Dirk and still hasn't figured it out.

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