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Thread: How do you like our new/old FO so far?

  1. #101
    Jimmy did what Jimmy did Bball's Avatar
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    Default Re: How do you like our new/old FO so far?

    I'm not sure how much direct evidence (quotes, etc) and circumstantial evidence you need before you realize that the Pacers do not purse high profile FA's. But you can believe what you want I guess.
    Nuntius was right. I was wrong. Frank Vogel has retained his job.

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  2. #102

    Default Re: How do you like our new/old FO so far?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bball View Post
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    I'm not sure how much direct evidence (quotes, etc) and circumstantial evidence you need before you realize that the Pacers do not purse high profile FA's. But you can believe what you want I guess.
    Did last summer not happen? The one where we tried to sign Nene and Jamal Crawford, and at least kicked the tires on Marc Gasol? We tried, it didn't work out. Most of the time it doesn't.

  3. #103

    Default Re: How do you like our new/old FO so far?

    If you want I can contact the Pacers and see if they'll fax over the expense reports from the trip to Denver that the team president, GM, head coach and assistant coach went on to try and get Nene. Cause that sure sounds to me like they were pursuing a free agent.

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  5. #104
    Jimmy did what Jimmy did Bball's Avatar
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    Default Re: How do you like our new/old FO so far?

    Quote Originally Posted by King Tuts Tomb View Post
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    If you want I can contact the Pacers and see if they'll fax over the expense reports from the trip to Denver that the team president, GM, head coach and assistant coach went on to try and get Nene. Cause that sure sounds to me like they were pursuing a free agent.
    Was that Walsh or Bird's watch? And which one is here now?
    Nuntius was right. I was wrong. Frank Vogel has retained his job.

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  6. #105

    Default Re: How do you like our new/old FO so far?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bball View Post
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    Was that Walsh or Bird's watch? And which one is here now?
    So your beef is with the guy who cleared all of New York's cap space and then spent a summer trying to sign LeBron, Joe Johnson, Dwyane Wade or Chris Bosh, ended up signing Amare Stoudemire and Raymond Felton and playing some part in acquiring Carmelo Anthony, and pushed as a consultant for the Knicks to sign Tyson Chandler.

    Your contention is that he won't try and sign top free agents?

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  8. #106
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    Default Re: How do you like our new/old FO so far?

    Quote Originally Posted by King Tuts Tomb View Post
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    So your beef is with the guy who cleared all of New York's cap space and then spent a summer trying to sign LeBron, Joe Johnson, Dwyane Wade or Chris Bosh, ended up signing Amare Stoudemire and Raymond Felton and playing some part in acquiring Carmelo Anthony, and pushed as a consultant for the Knicks to sign Tyson Chandler.

    Your contention is that he won't try and sign top free agents?
    He certainly will when he is given the resources and he can coax stars into coming to his team......

  9. #107
    Running with the Big Boys BillS's Avatar
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    Default Re: How do you like our new/old FO so far?

    Quote Originally Posted by King Tuts Tomb View Post
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    Did last summer not happen? The one where we tried to sign Nene and Jamal Crawford, and at least kicked the tires on Marc Gasol? We tried, it didn't work out. Most of the time it doesn't.
    "There is no try. There is only do." -- Pacers Digest
    BillS

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  11. #108
    I'm on a MAC! graphic-er's Avatar
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    Default Re: How do you like our new/old FO so far?

    My beef so far is that it is pretty clear that they overpaid for Mahinme and to keep Hill. I don't see Hill getting 8 million from another team. I don't think any of you could have named one either. Mahinme could have been had for much cheaper than losing DC. He was just a guy trying to get a 4 year contract. It seems like typical Donnie Walsh moves though. Overpaid back ups like Austin Croshere. The last point guard to play for the Pacers who made 8mil a season was one Jamal Tinsley. While I love Hill, he will never had the skill of Tinsley.

    As for being committed to winning a championship. Well I think thats more on the players myself. If you have a team good enough to make the 2nd round and finish as a high seed for the playoffs, then i think management has done a good job. Its up to the players to win.
    Last edited by graphic-er; 07-22-2012 at 11:39 AM.
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  13. #109
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    Default Re: How do you like our new/old FO so far?

    Quote Originally Posted by BillS View Post
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    Why do you assume they just didn't try at all? Because it didn't leak to the press?

    The question is still valid. Out of the list of the top FAs there were very good reasons that the Pacers wouldn't have won on them. Which ones do you think they should have tried on anyway?

    Of the remaining FAs, which ones do you think we just didn't bother on?

    I'm not getting that an assumption of complete inactivity leads to such certainty - especially when 12 hours after the FA market opened people were totally and abswolutely convinced the Pacers would do nothing at all - possibly not even re-sign Roy - and here we are with a ton of moves.

    Which moves do you think the Pacers could have made successfully and which moves they DID make would you have dumped in their favor?

    For example, I think nwhen the Pacers approached Mayo he was at $8M and they moved on, then Mayo realized no one was paying that so took $4M from the Mavs. Would you rather wee had not bothered making any other moves - including stalling signing Roy - to wait and see if Mayo would cut his requirements? Do you really think he would have done so?

    Here is Wells report in what the Pacers goals was this year, it doesn't sound to me like they were trying hard to get a big free agent or even a decent free agent to come here:


    http://www.indystar.com/article/2012...TS04/120712043


    The plan going into free agency was simple for the Indiana Pacers.

    There would not be any off-the-wall recruiting pitches by team President Donnie Walsh or general manager Kevin Pritchard in the early hours of July 1 to try to woo All-Star point guard Deron Williams. The Pacers would not be one of many actors in the Dwight Howard soap opera with the Orlando Magic. Nor did the Pacers have interest in a one-year rental of Howard.

    It’s been all about fine-tuning the roster since they lost to the Miami Heat in the second round of the playoffs in May.
    Last edited by vnzla81; 07-22-2012 at 02:16 PM.

  14. #110
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    Default Re: How do you like our new/old FO so far?

    There is more than one side of the court... Take what Hill brings on offense and defense, and compare it to Tinsley's passing skills, and they are at the very least equal I would say.

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  16. #111
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    Default Re: How do you like our new/old FO so far?

    Quote Originally Posted by BillS View Post
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    "There is no try. There is only do." -- Pacers Digest
    Well they have tried before and as I result the Pacers have got the great free agents of, Travis Diener, Kareem Rush, Head, Jesicavishus(or whatever), Dahntay Jones, Solomon Jones, David West, Augustin, Gerald Green, etc,etc..


    Thanks god they are trying because I don't know where would the Pacers be if it wasn't for this guys...

  17. #112
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    Default Re: How do you like our new/old FO so far?

    Quote Originally Posted by BringJackBack View Post
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    There is more than one side of the court... Take what Hill brings on offense and defense, and compare it to Tinsley's passing skills, and they are at the very least equal I would say.
    No, Tinsley was a much better PG but that was he only position he could play. Hill is more versitile. I think Tinsley was a pretty good defender but when you look at them as citizens of the community, that is what really separates them...... ...

  18. #113
    Jimmy did what Jimmy did Bball's Avatar
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    Default Re: How do you like our new/old FO so far?

    Vnzla81,
    It doesn't matter how many quotes like that you bring up. It doesn't matter how much history Walsh and Simon have in this regard. It doesn't matter how much circumstantial evidence exists. Larry Bird could've said "Ol' Herbie doesn't want to go all in chasing a championship, doesn't want to chase costly free agents, and it's his team. My back has been bothering me anyway so no use staying here and dealing with that if we don't see eye to eye on where we need to go next" and I have no doubt people would still be arguing he left because of his health.

    People just don't seem to want to believe the Pacers would willingly ignore going all in for a high profile FA/RFA and that the team wouldn't be aggressive in getting to the next level.

    As much as people thought Bird was conservative, just wait until you revisit Donnie DN Walsh with fresh eyes.
    Nuntius was right. I was wrong. Frank Vogel has retained his job.

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    "A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, thatís teamwork."

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  20. #114
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    Default Re: How do you like our new/old FO so far?

    Vnzla81, BBall and a few others seem to have it all figured out what goes on inside the Pacers front office and what more importantly goes on inside their minds.

    If what you guys think or think you know, why are you a fan of the Pacers at all ? there must be several teams that are easier to root far.
    "Just look at the flowers ........ BANG"

  21. #115
    Jimmy did what Jimmy did Bball's Avatar
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    Default Re: How do you like our new/old FO so far?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hoop View Post
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    Vnzla81, BBall and a few others seem to have it all figured out what goes on inside the Pacers front office and what more importantly goes on inside their minds.

    If what you guys think or think you know, why are you a fan of the Pacers at all ? there must be several teams that are easier to root far.
    Bringing Donnie Walsh back certainly has me questioning that... And has squarely sealed my opinion of Simon as well.

    But alas, I'll always follow the Pacers to some degree. But if they aren't going 'all in' then I'm not either.

    And the rest of the NBA means almost nothing to me. If there was no INDIANA Pacers there could be no NBA as far as I'm concerned.
    Nuntius was right. I was wrong. Frank Vogel has retained his job.

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    "A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, thatís teamwork."

    -John Wooden

  22. #116
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    Default Re: How do you like our new/old FO so far?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hoop View Post
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    Vnzla81, BBall and a few others seem to have it all figured out what goes on inside the Pacers front office and what more importantly goes on inside their minds.

    If what you guys think or think you know, why are you a fan of the Pacers at all ? there must be several teams that are easier to root far.
    Stop it!!

  23. #117
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    Default Re: How do you like our new/old FO so far?

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    Stop it!!
    Right back at ya!
    "Just look at the flowers ........ BANG"

  24. #118
    Running with the Big Boys BillS's Avatar
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    Default Re: How do you like our new/old FO so far?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bball View Post
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    People just don't seem to want to believe the Pacers would willingly ignore going all in for a high profile FA/RFA and that the team wouldn't be aggressive in getting to the next level.
    So all you want is for them to publicly go for a high profile FA/RFA no matter whether that FA/RFA would help the current roster, has made themselves open to go to any but a couple of teams, or has been promised by their current team that they will match?

    Please, I ask again, for THIS incarnation of the FO, which of the listed top 20 FAs do you think the Pacers should have publicly thrown everything at in order to get and why do you think that by doing so they would NOT have lost anything doing it?

    If there are NO FAs/RFAs you feel the Pacers COULD have gotten this year but you STILL feel they should have gone after one anyway, why?

    And if you DON'T feel they should have gone after one of the FAs/RFAs who was already a "not going to get" due to position/current team situation/existing trade demand, then WHY are you so adamant that this is proof they will (or have) never even tried to get a major FA?

    It's like sending your kids out to the parking lot to pick up fallen $20 bills. They come back with some $1 and $5 bills and you conclude they never would have picked up a $20 bill if it was there - when the reality is that there were no $20 bills.
    BillS

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  25. #119
    Jimmy did what Jimmy did Bball's Avatar
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    Default Re: How do you like our new/old FO so far?

    Bills,
    By signing Hibbert and Hill early when they did and effectively killing their cap space and ability to do anything else it makes your question a moot point IMHO.

    ...while also confirming they weren't interested in being aggressive at all IMHO...
    Nuntius was right. I was wrong. Frank Vogel has retained his job.

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    "A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, thatís teamwork."

    -John Wooden

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  27. #120

    Default Re: How do you like our new/old FO so far?

    We shouldn't be surprised about these FA moves, this is DW's specialty. He took a chance on JO, an underated Brad Miller, drafted Tinsley and Harrington. We have to give these moves a chance based on the excellent track record of Walsh.

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  29. #121
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    Default Re: How do you like our new/old FO so far?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bball View Post
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    Bills,
    By signing Hibbert and Hill early when they did and effectively killing their cap space and ability to do anything else it makes your question a moot point IMHO.

    ...while also confirming they weren't interested in being aggressive at all IMHO...
    I would like to ad to this that Bills didn't like people complaining that no moves were made as soon as the moratorium was over because according to him we had a whole summer to make moves, how is that working out now?

  30. #122

    Default Re: How do you like our new/old FO so far?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bball View Post
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    Bills,
    By signing Hibbert and Hill early when they did and effectively killing their cap space and ability to do anything else it makes your question a moot point IMHO.

    ...while also confirming they weren't interested in being aggressive at all IMHO...

    Early? Compared to what, the first game? They made it a point to deliver a contract offer to Roy equal to the Blazers' expected offer so he wouldn't sign their sheet so they wouldn't be tied down to a definite time to re-sign him. I assume they did the same for Hill, who, I might add, signed at the same time as Hibbert.
    EDIT: Even if they didn't wait out the entire offseason to re-sign Hill and Hibbert, they still re-signed them only when they finished the moves they wanted to make. All of the top-tier FAs were gone by then.

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  32. #123
    Running with the Big Boys BillS's Avatar
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    Default Re: How do you like our new/old FO so far?

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    I would like to ad to this that Bills didn't like people complaining that no moves were made as soon as the moratorium was over because according to him we had a whole summer to make moves, how is that working out now?
    So since the top FAs are all signed it means the trade deadline has passed as well?
    BillS

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  33. #124
    Running with the Big Boys BillS's Avatar
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    Default Re: How do you like our new/old FO so far?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bball View Post
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    Bills,
    By signing Hibbert and Hill early when they did and effectively killing their cap space and ability to do anything else it makes your question a moot point IMHO.

    ...while also confirming they weren't interested in being aggressive at all IMHO...
    Which ones did they pass on that they had any kind of chance at getting if they had not said they were signing Hibbert and Hill? Who was left on the block the date they ACTUALLY signed Hibbert and Hill that they could still have gotten for a non-ridiculous price?

    I think they overpaid by a couple million for Hill, but if they had NOT re-signed Hibbert then I suspect Portland would have been touted as the biggest FA signing of the year - and you guys would be talking about how the FO didn't want to spend any money at all.
    BillS

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    - Ebby Calvin "Nuke" LaLoosh

  34. #125
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    Default Re: How do you like our new/old FO so far?

    Quote Originally Posted by BillS View Post
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    So since the top FAs are all signed it means the trade deadline has passed as well?
    According to reports the Pacers are done making moves not only that but the cap space is gone making it even harder to do
    Anything, so yeah the trade deadline has passed for the Pacers.

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