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Thread: NBA Approves Advertising on Uniforms

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    Default Re: NBA Approves Advertising on Uniforms

    Quote Originally Posted by BillS View Post
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    With due concern about spinning down this rathole again, just how low do you think ticket prices should be? I think prices at the Fieldhouse are pretty reasonable.

    If your pipe dream is that courtsides should be cheaper than an iMax movie then you don't understand the economics of the situation at all.
    I agree, if I thought courtside seats should be cheaper than an iMax movie, that would be silly. But, that's not my point. What I'm saying is, it would be nice if, at some point (any point), an increase in revenue would be reflected in a dollar for dollar decrease in ticket prices (or, parking or concessions, whatever). So, if putting a patch on a jersey brings in an extra $10 million (I have no idea what kind of money they're talking about for sponsorship), lower the ticket prices in a way that would effectively lower the gate by $10 million.

    You're working from the other side of the equation by assuming I have a set price for what tickets should be. I don't. Just adjust them down to match the added revenue. If that means tickets only go down $3 a ticket, then fine.

    But, having said all that, my pipe dream is only in relation to the idea that ticket prices would ever go down in direct correlation to new revenue. Not that they'd be drastically reduced to an unrealistic number.

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    Default Re: NBA Approves Advertising on Uniforms

    Quote Originally Posted by BillS View Post
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    In any event, though, there is not a whole lot of room to reduce ticket prices further due to the cost structure and the current money losing situation of the team. For additional revenue to come anywhere close to having an effect on ticket prices, it would have to be relatively large compared to the cost of running the team. If it is not, then it is better served going toward those costs ALREADY not covered by the current ticket sales rather than being used to essentially have no increase in overall revenue by subtracting a portion from current income that - at best - would keep losses at the same level. There is no evidence to suggest at all that such revenue would simply line anyone's pockets ("make the rich richer") with no regard to the current bottom line of the team.
    I understand that a team that's losing money would want to apply new revenue to cover those losses. My pipe dream is more in the abstract (and assuming a team is making a profit in the first place).

  3. #53

    Default Re: NBA Approves Advertising on Uniforms

    I really don't mind it, the patches are probably going to be really small and if it helps small-market owners I'm fine with it. Also, this shouldn't be surprising to anyone. Of course the owners are going to vote to allow a new revenue stream.

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    Default Re: NBA Approves Advertising on Uniforms

    I have a feeling that the Pacers won't get SportZone as their sponsor.

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    Default Re: NBA Approves Advertising on Uniforms

    Quote Originally Posted by A-Train View Post
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    I agree, if I thought courtside seats should be cheaper than an iMax movie, that would be silly. But, that's not my point. What I'm saying is, it would be nice if, at some point (any point), an increase in revenue would be reflected in a dollar for dollar decrease in ticket prices (or, parking or concessions, whatever). So, if putting a patch on a jersey brings in an extra $10 million (I have no idea what kind of money they're talking about for sponsorship), lower the ticket prices in a way that would effectively lower the gate by $10 million.

    You're working from the other side of the equation by assuming I have a set price for what tickets should be. I don't. Just adjust them down to match the added revenue. If that means tickets only go down $3 a ticket, then fine.

    But, having said all that, my pipe dream is only in relation to the idea that ticket prices would ever go down in direct correlation to new revenue. Not that they'd be drastically reduced to an unrealistic number.
    I guess my question would be why you'd spend the money on marketing and sponsorship reps to go out and get that extra ad revenue if you were going to just use it to replace already existing revenue. Unless the sponsor walks up to you and gives you that $10M without needing to do anything in exchange - including even repainting a sign - then to take X revenue and give up X revenue from another place means you just lost money.

    That said, there HAVE been promotions where companies basically sponsor tickets to be sold for a lower price or buy blocks of tickets to give away. I doubt seriously those companies are paying a premium (in fact, they probably even get a discount). I know you are talking about a more general and season-long price impact, but I think the ONLY way would be for someone to actually spend the money directly on the tickets themselves.
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    Default Re: NBA Approves Advertising on Uniforms

    Quote Originally Posted by BillS View Post
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    I guess my question would be why you'd spend the money on marketing and sponsorship reps to go out and get that extra ad revenue if you were going to just use it to replace already existing revenue.
    See, you're talking real life... I'm talking out loud about a pipe dream... if that answers your question.

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    Default Re: NBA Approves Advertising on Uniforms

    Quote Originally Posted by A-Train View Post
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    See, you're talking real life... I'm talking out loud about a pipe dream... if that answers your question.
    Hey......

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    Default Re: NBA Approves Advertising on Uniforms

    Quote Originally Posted by sportfireman View Post
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    Hey if it helps the Pacers stay in Indiana.......

    and possibly lower ticket prices.
    Lakers jersey advertising: 20 mil a year
    Pacers: 2 mil a year

    Unless they share this revenue, it will only make the separation bigger.

    Just look at soccer, Barca gets 30+ mil a year, and it's actually because they decided to be cool and advertise a non-profit, they could've easily sold out for much more.
    While mid table Spanish teams are lucky to get 10 times less.

    Hell, look at American MLS, which is supposed to have more parity than any other soccer league and even more than the NBA. LA Galaxy has a choice of 4-5 mil offers, while a team in Columbus is happy to get 1 mil a year after a long search.

    Btw, Houston may benefit a lot.
    Chinese companies have been throwing multimillion deals at mid-tier Premier league teams for years now. What would they pay for their logo on a Lin jersey?

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    Default Re: NBA Approves Advertising on Uniforms

    Yeah there needs to be some sort of share on the revenue from this somehow otherwise the Lakers/Knicks/Celtics/Heat will be cashing in a big way compared to the rest.
    "It's just unfortunate that we've been penalized so much this year and nothing has happened to the Pistons, the Palace or the city of Detroit," he said. "It's almost like it's always our fault. The league knows it. They should be ashamed of themselves to let the security be as lax as it is around here."

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    Default Re: NBA Approves Advertising on Uniforms

    Quote Originally Posted by beast23 View Post
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    The last thing I want to see is our Pacers jersey take on the look of a Danica Patrick driving suit. And, I suppose the players will soon be b!tching about wanting their 49%.
    they'd get their 49-51% by default.

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    Default Re: NBA Approves Advertising on Uniforms

    Quote Originally Posted by Kstat View Post
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    It will be. Once it starts down this slope, it's not going to stop until every bit of space has been sold out.

    It'll start with a patch, and they they will want to sell two patches, then three, then there will be bigger ones, then they will start on the other side of the jersey...

    easy money is addicting.
    and then the NBA will introduce long sleeves and pants to make more room for patches.

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    Default Re: NBA Approves Advertising on Uniforms

    Quote Originally Posted by ballism View Post
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    and then the NBA will introduce long sleeves and pants to make more room for patches.
    Hell, they practically wear pants now. Lots of room on those ugly shorts......

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    Default Re: NBA Approves Advertising on Uniforms

    Quote Originally Posted by BillS View Post
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    Do you have an actual economic study that shows the growth in prices can be reasonably inferred to be the same as it would have been without advertising, or is this just a general "if prices go up at all then other sources of revenue must be going straight to profit" observation?

    In some cases, like the Super Bowl, prices are based on scarcity. That means they aren't being priced in any relation to the costs, they are priced based on the buyer's perceived value. It would take pretty high prices before the cost of a Super Bowl ticket makes a difference in the sale of tickets - this would be an "inelastic" good, one where demand does not change significantly based on price. So, for this sort of good, your view would be correct.

    In other cases, like video games, I'd venture to say that price has a much greater effect on demand - in other words, those goods are "elastic". I would bet that product placement/advertising revenue does a great deal to hold down the increase in prices in order to make sure demand is maximized. Costs still go up because inflation exists, but the base price would be more if it wasn't for the infusion of additional revenue. For this sort of good, your view is likely incorrect.

    Pacer tickets fall into something of a gray area, because it is hard to tell if the lack of demand is due to ticket pricing or the perceived quality of the good provided. In any event, though, there is not a whole lot of room to reduce ticket prices further due to the cost structure and the current money losing situation of the team. For additional revenue to come anywhere close to having an effect on ticket prices, it would have to be relatively large compared to the cost of running the team. If it is not, then it is better served going toward those costs ALREADY not covered by the current ticket sales rather than being used to essentially have no increase in overall revenue by subtracting a portion from current income that - at best - would keep losses at the same level. There is no evidence to suggest at all that such revenue would simply line anyone's pockets ("make the rich richer") with no regard to the current bottom line of the team.
    First off don't take my post that seriously, secondly I have a good, detailed understanding of how and why the prices are what they are in all of the examples I used.

    My point was simply that increasing advertisement revenue rarely goes towards decreasing the cost of the product. It is more likely to either go towards offsetting other rising costs, or increasing profits. Typically the only time the price of a product drops is if there is a decrease in demand.

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    Default Re: NBA Approves Advertising on Uniforms

    I want Cuban to take advantage of this somehow like just take out an advertisement space on the patch that says "stern sucks" or something along those lines if they're allowed to individualize the advertisements per team. Unfortunately (or foturnately pending on how ya look at it) i'm sure there will be some sort of system in place to not allow anything like that to happen.

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    Default Re: NBA Approves Advertising on Uniforms

    I don't like it, but when it happens it won't cause me to stop watching the NBA.

    I do notice the ads on WNBA jerseys (quite a few of us on this board watch these games and unlike the NBA, the league has been growing slowly but steadily across the board despite the recession - but I digress) and I don't like it there either. However, I understand the financial realities of the league made it a necessity - that makes it easier to tolerate because I'd rather have a WNBA with logos on jerseys than no WNBA at all. But you'd better believe I ran out to get a Tamika Catchings jersey before the Boost Mobile logo went on it and I will likely do the same with the Pacers. It sucks.

    At the end of the day, I am actually much more annoyed about the ads being on jerseys that I buy than I am about watching the players perform in said jerseys.
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    Default Re: NBA Approves Advertising on Uniforms

    Quote Originally Posted by gummy View Post
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    I don't like it, but when it happens it won't cause me to stop watching the NBA.

    I do notice the ads on WNBA jerseys (quite a few of us on this board watch these games and unlike the NBA, the league has been growing slowly but steadily across the board despite the recession - but I digress) and I don't like it there either. However, I understand the financial realities of the league made it a necessity - that makes it easier to tolerate because I'd rather have a WNBA with logos on jerseys than no WNBA at all. But you'd better believe I ran out to get a Tamika Catchings jersey before the Boost Mobile logo went on it and I will likely do the same with the Pacers. It sucks.

    At the end of the day, I am actually much more annoyed about the ads being on jerseys that I buy than I am about watching the players perform in said jerseys.
    It was inevitable. We might as well just get used to seeing it. They are going to raise revenue every way they can.....

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    Default Re: NBA Approves Advertising on Uniforms

    NBA Jerseys will look like NASCAR uniforms before its all said and done. What a shame. You wont catch me being a moving billboard for those advertisers. Ill sport a basic logo shirt only IF they dont have the stupid ads on there either. Shame on you NBA, Shame on you!

    edit: MLB says NO to ads on uniforms. Much respect to Bud Selig!
    http://espn.go.com/chicago/mlb/story...t-ads-uniforms
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    Default Re: NBA Approves Advertising on Uniforms

    Quote Originally Posted by ColeTheMole View Post
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    Ah i think itll be funny. Hopefully the bobcats are sponspored by Bob's nickel and dime store because no one else wants to.
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    Default Re: NBA Approves Advertising on Uniforms

    I couldn't care less. Do dislike the idea of the ads being on replica jerseys though.

    There's a poll asking if you support it on nba.com, which is honestly kind of surprising. You'd think if it was really a for sure done deal there'd be no need for a poll. Not that I think Stern or Silver care a bit about what an online poll says, just peculiar.

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    Default Re: NBA Approves Advertising on Uniforms

    Quote Originally Posted by Heisenberg View Post
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    I couldn't care less. Do dislike the idea of the ads being on replica jerseys though.

    There's a poll asking if you support it on nba.com, which is honestly kind of surprising. You'd think if it was really a for sure done deal there'd be no need for a poll. Not that I think Stern or Silver care a bit about what an online poll says, just peculiar.
    It's just a game people who thrive on power like to play. Ask the peasants, then disregard their answer. I like the NBA a little less after this...forcing us to watch commercials while the game is playing. I will not be surprised if they started zooming in on logos after a dunk. WWF....

  23. #71

    Default Re: NBA Approves Advertising on Uniforms

    While still annoyed, I am intrigued by the particulars of this. If anyone knows the answer to any of these please let me know.

    -Does each team get to decide their own sponsor?
    -Does each team keep whatever they make? That Laker tag will be worth a mint.
    -As someone mentioned earlier, what if a player is already sponsored by a competing brand?
    -Can Nike buy a patch on the uniforms to mess with Adidas?

  24. #72
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    Default Re: NBA Approves Advertising on Uniforms

    Does this mean the NBA multimillionaires will stop asking tax payers to fund their multimillion dollar stadiums where they play games the tax payers cannot afford to attend?

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    Default Re: NBA Approves Advertising on Uniforms

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
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    Does this mean the NBA multimillionaires will stop asking tax payers to fund their multimillion dollar stadiums where they play games the tax payers cannot afford to attend?


    Please, someone of the tons of people who keep whining about this, tell me JUST WHAT YOU THINK IS FAIR FOR AN NBA GAME WHERE THE PLAYERS MAKE $48M PER YEAR?

    How many millions of dollars should an owner be required to lose before someone realizes that losing money is still losing money? $30M per year loss on $1B is 3% - 3% of a $40,000 salary (below the Indiana median income, by the way) is $1200 - a courtside Pacer ticket is $200, which is one half of one percent. Your argument is that the owner should be forced to lose 6 times more than a typical fan could pay for the best ticket in the house so you can watch the team for free?

    Quit complaining about the prices and TELL ME WHAT PRICE YOU WANT TO PAY AND WHAT QUALITY SEAT YOU THINK EVERYONE SHOULD GET FOR THAT PRICE.

    Otherwise, just start a campaign to run the team out of town so your share of the taxes (probably about $10 per year since you obviously can't afford to go out to eat downtown) can go to something else.
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    Default Re: NBA Approves Advertising on Uniforms

    Quote Originally Posted by BillS View Post
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    Please, someone of the tons of people who keep whining about this, tell me JUST WHAT YOU THINK IS FAIR FOR AN NBA GAME WHERE THE PLAYERS MAKE $48M PER YEAR?

    How many millions of dollars should an owner be required to lose before someone realizes that losing money is still losing money? $30M per year loss on $1B is 3% - 3% of a $40,000 salary (below the Indiana median income, by the way) is $1200 - a courtside Pacer ticket is $200, which is one half of one percent. Your argument is that the owner should be forced to lose 6 times more than a typical fan could pay for the best ticket in the house so you can watch the team for free?

    Quit complaining about the prices and TELL ME WHAT PRICE YOU WANT TO PAY AND WHAT QUALITY SEAT YOU THINK EVERYONE SHOULD GET FOR THAT PRICE.

    Otherwise, just start a campaign to run the team out of town so your share of the taxes (probably about $10 per year since you obviously can't afford to go out to eat downtown) can go to something else.
    I work and eat out every day of the week...almost always in Circle Center mall. So, I pay probably about $10/week. ...and I'm not one to have a problem paying for tickets but I'm actually the exception.

    Anyway, my beef is with the system as a whole. I don't believe billionaires who pay men millions of dollars to play a boy's game should be asking for the middle class to fund their stadium....unless there is an independent accounting that it's worth it to the city. I wouldn't want the city to hand out money to Eli Lilly either...again, unless there was a provable ROI.

    ...and no, I don't support running the team out of town. I would like them to stick around and adjust their financial model so they don't have to involve tax payers in their private business. Reduce player salaries if you need to. But they cave and fork out more and more money because some of them have bottomless pockets and the others who do not want to spend the kid's inheritance (like the Simon's) want help from the city. Show an independent accounting and fork out whatever it takes...but make it independent.

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    Default Re: NBA Approves Advertising on Uniforms

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
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    I work and eat out every day of the week...almost always in Circle Center mall. So, I pay probably about $10/week. ...and I'm not one to have a problem paying for tickets but I'm actually the exception.

    Anyway, my beef is with the system as a whole. I don't believe billionaires who pay men millions of dollars to play a boy's game should be asking for the middle class to fund their stadium....unless there is an independent accounting that it's worth it to the city. I wouldn't want the city to hand out money to Eli Lilly either...again, unless there was a provable ROI.

    ...and no, I don't support running the team out of town. I would like them to stick around and adjust their financial model so they don't have to involve tax payers in their private business. Reduce player salaries if you need to. But they cave and fork out more and more money because some of them have bottomless pockets and the others who do not want to spend the kid's inheritance (like the Simon's) want help from the city. Show an independent accounting and fork out whatever it takes...but make it independent.
    I think the Pacers did have an analysis done about what their impact was on the city and it made what they spent a very good deal...... If they raise enough revenue from the patches, perhaps they can do without city money. We won't know until we see the results....

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