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Thread: Collison and Tyler

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    Default Collison and Tyler

    Hey guys,

    I just migrated over after the death of Rats on indystar.

    1. I really liked Collison. I think having a scoring point guard was a big boost to our offense. I know we are supposed to be a smashmouth team, but Roy and West are not exactly Shaq. Collison was a weapon, and should have had a chance to take his starting spot back. I like Hill, and Augustine was a great pickup, so we are still in good shape.

    2. I have glanced though many posts, and noticed most people do not like Tyler. I do not understand this. Tyler was a better low post player than West, and he gets to the line a ridiculous amount of the time. West is a smart player, and a good shooter, but I never understood why we got him to replace Tyler. Tyler is the one who fits with our new smashmouth image.

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    I have a Member xBulletproof's Avatar
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    Default Re: Collison and Tyler

    Tyler gets lost on defense regularly and is a one trick pony on offense. When he isn't making his jumper he's a huge liability. I regularly sit near the bench. If you think we are hard on Tyler here, you should watch the bench during timeouts.

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    Pacer Pride, Colts Strong Kid Minneapolis's Avatar
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    Default Re: Collison and Tyler

    Rats was still around? Damn. It just went down recently? Welcome aboard btw, what took ya so long, lol.
    There are two types of quarterbacks in the league: Those whom over time, the league figures out ... and those who figure out the league.

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    Default Re: Collison and Tyler

    I could teach an 8 year old how to play better help side defense than Hansbrough in 15 minutes. He drives me insane on defense. His back is constantly to the ball. If I had a nickel for every time he missed a rotation on help side defense. Apparently they don't teach BALL, YOU, MAN at UNC.

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    Default Re: Collison and Tyler

    Collison is gone because the Pacers rightly knew he would never be the answer at PG. He would be a nice guy to bring off the bench, but there are cheaper 6th men who don't come at a PG premium. Obviously from my avatar, I like Hans. Problem is, he's not played well and I think he's basically done. I think I laughed when someone called him Eduardo Najera, but I think that guy was right. Hans' game did not translate because he's trying to play a big man's game...and he's simply not that big. If he ever tightened up that mid range game he could be pretty good, but he's also weak in terms of team play. He never needed his team mates until now...

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    Default Re: Collison and Tyler

    Quote Originally Posted by metaldwarf View Post
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    Hey guys,

    I just migrated over after the death of Rats on indystar.

    2. I have glanced though many posts, and noticed most people do not like Tyler. I do not understand this. Tyler was a better low post player than West, and he gets to the line a ridiculous amount of the time. West is a smart player, and a good shooter, but I never understood why we got him to replace Tyler. Tyler is the one who fits with our new smashmouth image.
    I cannot express how strongly I disagree with the parts in bold.

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    Default Re: Collison and Tyler

    Quote Originally Posted by xBulletproof View Post
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    Tyler gets lost on defense regularly and is a one trick pony on offense. When he isn't making his jumper he's a huge liability. I regularly sit near the bench. If you think we are hard on Tyler here, you should watch the bench during timeouts.

    Elaborate a little. Were they cussing him out or what? Did I have Tyler's personality all wrong all this time? I always assumed he is a super hard worker that will listen to the coaches and do whatever it takes to get better.

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    Default Re: Collison and Tyler

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
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    Collison is gone because the Pacers rightly knew he would never be the answer at PG. He would be a nice guy to bring off the bench, but there are cheaper 6th men who don't come at a PG premium. Obviously from my avatar, I like Hans. Problem is, he's not played well and I think he's basically done. I think I laughed when someone called him Eduardo Najera, but I think that guy was right. Hans' game did not translate because he's trying to play a big man's game...and he's simply not that big. If he ever tightened up that mid range game he could be pretty good, but he's also weak in terms of team play. He never needed his team mates until now...
    Size isnt Tyler's issue lack of BBall IQ and skill is his main issues. Skill especially the dude has no post moves and has no touch around the basket. If he had real skill like a Scola or West he would be fine but he has no skill and West and Scola have tons of skill. Tyler is actually most athletic between the 3 of them.




    look at that skill on display plays at his speed not out of control and has excellent footwork Tyler is the opposite. He plays out of control and has horrendous footwork and really has no moves in his arsenal.


    On defense West is limited but he is normally in the right place and talks. He isnt just running around like a chicken with his head cut off.
    Last edited by pacer4ever; 07-17-2012 at 11:33 PM.

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    Default Re: Collison and Tyler

    Quote Originally Posted by pacer4ever View Post
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    Size isnt Tyler's issue lack of BBall IQ and skill is his main issues. Skill especially the dude has no post moves and has no touch around the basket. If he had real skill like a Scola or West he would be fine but he has no skill and West and Scola have tons of skill. Tyler is actually most athletic between the 3 of them.




    look at that skill on display plays at his speed not out of control and has excellent footwork Tyler is the opposite. He plays out of control and has horrendous footwork and really has no moves in his arsenal.
    That's why I could never understand those that preferred Hansbrough over McBob. McBob has his weaknesses as well but has more skill than Tyler has.

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    Default Re: Collison and Tyler

    I like Tyler a lot, but getting West was a no-brainer. Tyler tries but his skill set does not seem to translate over to the NBA. I see Tyler as still being valuable to our team as he can play physical one on one defense but when it comes to rotations and pick and roll defense he needs a lot of improvement. I am hoping that Tyler starts to improve his understanding of defense. Maybe another year with West will help Tyler in a mentoring way. He had a rough year this past season and I hope this year with a full training camp and preseason he will find his role on this team.

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    Default Re: Collison and Tyler

    gets old real fast watching tyler trying to get a foul called everytime he shoots it... i like him but david west is a way better scorer then him

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    Default Re: Collison and Tyler

    Quote Originally Posted by pacer4ever View Post
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    Size isnt Tyler's issue lack of BBall IQ and skill is his main issues. Skill especially the dude has no post moves and has no touch around the basket. If he had real skill like a Scola or West he would be fine but he has no skill and West and Scola have tons of skill. Tyler is actually most athletic between the 3 of them.

    look at that skill on display plays at his speed not out of control and has excellent footwork Tyler is the opposite. He plays out of control and has horrendous footwork and really has no moves in his arsenal.

    On defense West is limited but he is normally in the right place and talks. He isnt just running around like a chicken with his head cut off.
    The difference is obviously experience. If Tyler would listen to West and learn something from him, then maybe by the time Hans is in his 10th year, he'll be able to do some (if any) of the stuff West can pull off. Of course, I don't expect him to be using these skills with the Pacers by that time. But what I'm saying is, give Hansbrough time, and if he changes his game and increases his basketball IQ, then everything will be all right for him. Solid veteran starter on a top 3 team in its conference, somewhere down the road.
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    Default Re: Collison and Tyler

    PS: Welcome to the Digest. Don't get too comfortable, however, we're moving soon.
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    Default Re: Collison and Tyler

    Quote Originally Posted by imbtyler View Post
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    The difference is obviously experience. If Tyler would listen to West and learn something from him, then maybe by the time Hans is in his 10th year, he'll be able to do some (if any) of the stuff West can pull off. Of course, I don't expect him to be using these skills with the Pacers by that time. But what I'm saying is, give Hansbrough time, and if he changes his game and increases his basketball IQ, then everything will be all right for him. Solid veteran starter on a top 3 team in its conference, somewhere down the road.
    i really don't want to wait for a guy to be entering the downside of his career for him to possibly be ready to be a starter.
    as it stands, he needs to substantially improve his defensive awareness, develop some reliable post moves, get a reliable mid-range shot and for someone as strong as he is- his rebounding is pretty poor.
    unless he makes those improvements, i don't see him ever being a legit starter on a decent team in the nba.

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    Default Re: Collison and Tyler

    Quote Originally Posted by clownskull View Post
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    i really don't want to wait for a guy to be entering the downside of his career for him to possibly be ready to be a starter.
    as it stands, he needs to substantially improve his defensive awareness, develop some reliable post moves, get a reliable mid-range shot and for someone as strong as he is- his rebounding is pretty poor.
    unless he makes those improvements, i don't see him ever being a legit starter on a decent team in the nba.
    How long are you willing to wait for him to be a viable NBA bench player? Because he still has a ways to go, if he's going to get there, as well.

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    Default Re: Collison and Tyler

    Well Collison is gone.... Tyler I believe will have a breakout year this year, as well as Lance.
    I'm not perfect and neither are you.

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    Default Re: Collison and Tyler

    Quote Originally Posted by Mackey_Rose View Post
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    How long are you willing to wait for him to be a viable NBA bench player? Because he still has a ways to go, if he's going to get there, as well.
    well as i see it, his trade value can't be much so a trade isn't likely. but he is entering his final year rookie contract so- if he doesn't make significant improvements- let him walk.

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    Default Re: Collison and Tyler

    Quote Originally Posted by metaldwarf View Post
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    2. I have glanced though many posts, and noticed most people do not like Tyler. I do not understand this. Tyler was a better low post player than West, and he gets to the line a ridiculous amount of the time. West is a smart player, and a good shooter, but I never understood why we got him to replace Tyler. Tyler is the one who fits with our new smashmouth image.
    West is better than Tyler in every way, except for drawing fouls, and that is only because West actually tries to make the shot, so he is still more efficient. .97 points per possession in post up plays for West, 17th in NBA vs .79 for Tyler, 94th in NBA.

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    Default Re: Collison and Tyler

    Quote Originally Posted by Pingu View Post
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    I cannot express how strongly I disagree with the parts in bold.

    I am assuming not with this statement. Tyler is the one who fits with our new smashmouth image.
    Although it isn't new anymore. But he is smashmouth.

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    Default Re: Collison and Tyler

    Quote Originally Posted by metaldwarf View Post
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    Tyler was a better low post player than West, and he gets to the line a ridiculous amount of the time.
    You realize you actually disproved the first half of this sentence with the second half, right? The only reason Tyler gets to the line so much is because he never--EVER--finishes at the basket. West finishes at a much more consistent rate than Hans, plus he manages to do it without looking like a drunk, lead-footed circus clown when he draws contact in the paint.
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    Default Re: Collison and Tyler

    Quote Originally Posted by cgg View Post
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    West is better than Tyler in every way, except for drawing fouls, and that is only because West actually tries to make the shot, so he is still more efficient. .97 points per possession in post up plays for West, 17th in NBA vs .79 for Tyler, 94th in NBA.
    I am a huge West fan, but maybe you aren't thinking about all aspects of the game. Tyler is a better one-on-one defender especially against quicker players. Tyler has really good lateral quickness. Tyler is also better at playing harder every second he is on the floor.

    I have not given up on Hansbrough at all and I don't ssay that because we don't have a choice as long as he's on the team. People in this forum have gone way too far in being negative towards Tyler. Way way too far

    Here is what I posted a couple of weeks ago.
    I have not given up on Hansbrough at all. he still is a very important part of our smashmouth approach. Maybe he's only a 15 minute per game off the bench type player on a very good team. No crime in that. But I think he's better than that.

    His physicalness and energy IMO cannot be overlooked. he's very valuable to our team and I don't expect him to be traded anytime soon.

    I saw real signs of him improving his passing ability - several really nice passes in the heat series. Also he's our best big defender in stayin in front of his man in one-on-one situations. Tyler has very good lateral movement for a guy his size - much better than ahny of our other big guys.

    Seemed to me he was thinking too much this past year, he never seemed comfortable, and never seemed as though he found his groove.
    Last edited by Unclebuck; 07-18-2012 at 11:08 AM.

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    Default Re: Collison and Tyler

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    People in this forum have gone way too far in being negative towards Tyler. way way too far
    I think much of our negativity has to be viewed in context. He was the 13th pick in the Draft. Larry Bird told us, "Once they see him play, they'll be very surprised....he's going to have a great career...he's got good mechanics, he's very well-rounded. He scored in college, he'll score in the league." After a year that franchise player became a solid sixth man who brought energy off the bench. After two years he became a serviceable backup. By year three we were considering packaging him with a first-round pick for 37-yr-old Ray Allen.

    The negativism is completely fair. Critics said Tyler was a huge reach at 13 and that he didn't fill a team need for the Pacers. Larry, JOB, and Tyler said he'd prove them wrong. There is no grey area here. The critics were 100% right.
    Last edited by Reginald; 07-18-2012 at 11:14 AM.
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    Default Re: Collison and Tyler

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    People in this forum have gone way too far in being negative towards Tyler. Way way too far

    I don't think I would be nearly as hard on him if he passed the ball every once in a while. He is a black hole and when he gets the ball, 95% of the time he's keeping it. He can be 2 of 10 and he'll keep taking shots. I get that he believes in himself and was a winner at UNC but at some point, you have to realize you're not the best player on the team anymore(not even close) and defer to better players on the floor. Would be nice if he picked his spots rather than just attempted a shot every time the ball ends up in his hands. There should never be a point in the game when he's top three in shot attempts(unless he's making everything) but sometimes he is and all I can do is shake my head.

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    Default Re: Collison and Tyler

    It took Kris Humphries many years to find his home in the league. It's way too early to give up on Tyler.

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    Default Re: Collison and Tyler

    Quote Originally Posted by metaldwarf View Post
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    Hey guys,

    I just migrated over after the death of Rats on indystar.

    1. I really liked Collison. I think having a scoring point guard was a big boost to our offense. I know we are supposed to be a smashmouth team, but Roy and West are not exactly Shaq. Collison was a weapon, and should have had a chance to take his starting spot back. I like Hill, and Augustine was a great pickup, so we are still in good shape.

    2. I have glanced though many posts, and noticed most people do not like Tyler. I do not understand this. Tyler was a better low post player than West, and he gets to the line a ridiculous amount of the time. West is a smart player, and a good shooter, but I never understood why we got him to replace Tyler. Tyler is the one who fits with our new smashmouth image.

    Hey hoss,

    I came over from Indystar a little while back after 6 or 7 years over there. Gannett runs a pathetic newspaper, doesn't it?

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