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Thread: Green and Mahinmi deals flat, no options

  1. #1

    Default Green and Mahinmi deals flat, no options

    This isn't exactly groundbreaking stuff, but I wanted to make a new thread about it in the hopes people see it.

    Mark Deeks runs ShamSports.com. There's Larry Coon when you want to decipher the CBA, and then there's Mark Deeks when you want to decipher contracts. I have no clue who his sources are. I also have no reason whatsoever to doubt him.

    https://twitter.com/MarkDeeksNBA/sta...71444872192000
    Jason Kidd (3 yeas, $9.09m), Ian Mahinmi (4 years, $16m), Gerald Green (3 years, $10.5m) - all flat & fully guaranteed with no option years.
    So that means Green makes 3.33 for the next 3 years, and Mahinmi makes an even 4 million over the next 4. That helps explain, somewhat, how and why Scola and Brand weren't realistic amnesty options.

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    Default Re: Green and Mahinmi deals flat, no options

    Aren't flat contracts rare? It's nice because the tax line tends to move up, but our payroll won't (for these guys) allowing us a little more leeway each year.

    And Green would be 3.5 each, if my math is right.
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    Artificial Intelligence wintermute's Avatar
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    Default Re: Green and Mahinmi deals flat, no options

    Quote Originally Posted by Heisenberg View Post
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    This isn't exactly groundbreaking stuff, but I wanted to make a new thread about it in the hopes people see it.

    Mark Deeks runs ShamSports.com. There's Larry Coon when you want to decipher the CBA, and then there's Mark Deeks when you want to decipher contracts. I have no clue who his sources are. I also have no reason whatsoever to doubt him.

    https://twitter.com/MarkDeeksNBA/sta...71444872192000

    So that means Green makes 3.33 for the next 3 years, and Mahinmi makes an even 4 million over the next 4. That helps explain, somewhat, how and why Scola and Brand weren't realistic amnesty options.
    Yup, Sham is very credible. He gets unbelievably detailed on those contracts.

    Good news on the flat contracts for Mahinmi and Green. We use up a bit more cap now, but won't have to deal with escalating cap hits in the future.

    Hope it turns out that Hill too is on a flat or declining contract. Hibbert's contract on the other hand, I don't think it's possible for it to be set up as a flat contract

  6. #4

    Default Re: Green and Mahinmi deals flat, no options

    Quote Originally Posted by Heisenberg View Post
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    This isn't exactly groundbreaking stuff, but I wanted to make a new thread about it in the hopes people see it.

    Mark Deeks runs ShamSports.com. There's Larry Coon when you want to decipher the CBA, and then there's Mark Deeks when you want to decipher contracts. I have no clue who his sources are. I also have no reason whatsoever to doubt him.

    https://twitter.com/MarkDeeksNBA/sta...71444872192000

    So that means Green makes 3.33 for the next 3 years, and Mahinmi makes an even 4 million over the next 4. That helps explain, somewhat, how and why Scola and Brand weren't realistic amnesty options.
    Brand was for 1 year and even Scola's deal would have replaced Hans' after this year. I think the FO could have avoided the tax cap comfortably.

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    Default Re: Green and Mahinmi deals flat, no options

    Quote Originally Posted by Heisenberg View Post
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    That helps explain, somewhat, how and why Scola and Brand weren't realistic amnesty options.
    the difference between back-loaded and 'flat' is what, 400k combined for the first year.
    that doesn't change much by itself.

    in the end, the FO chose not to bid for some bigger reason.
    maybe it was cash flow concerns, maybe they wanted to give Tyler another chance, maybe they didn't like Brand/Scola for some reason or had chemistry/age concerns, maybe it was between them and Barbosa and the front office felt Barbosa matters more to the team than a better scoring PF.
    i'd love to see Barbosa's contract (if he's actually signed).

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    Default Re: Green and Mahinmi deals flat, no options

    I think Scola and Brands agents just said they don't want to come here, and anyone who doesn't want to be here we aren't going to chase or concern ourselves with. It's a no win for everyone if the player doesn't want to be there.

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    Default Re: Green and Mahinmi deals flat, no options

    Quote Originally Posted by Heisenberg View Post
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    This isn't exactly groundbreaking stuff, but I wanted to make a new thread about it in the hopes people see it.

    Mark Deeks runs ShamSports.com. There's Larry Coon when you want to decipher the CBA, and then there's Mark Deeks when you want to decipher contracts. I have no clue who his sources are. I also have no reason whatsoever to doubt him.

    https://twitter.com/MarkDeeksNBA/sta...71444872192000

    So that means Green makes 3.33 for the next 3 years, and Mahinmi makes an even 4 million over the next 4. That helps explain, somewhat, how and why Scola and Brand weren't realistic amnesty options.
    No, it doesnt.

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    You can call me Taz cinotimz's Avatar
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    Default Re: Green and Mahinmi deals flat, no options

    Quote Originally Posted by xBulletproof View Post
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    I think Scola and Brands agents just said they don't want to come here, and anyone who doesn't want to be here we aren't going to chase or concern ourselves with. It's a no win for everyone if the player doesn't want to be there.
    Except for the fact that by the time Scola was released there was no way the Pacers could bid as they were over the cap so there would be no way the Pacers could bid and therefore absolutely no need for his agent to even bother calling. At this point I dont care enough to check the Brand timeline. But it makes for a nice story.

    Are u the same Bulletproof from years gone by that was rumored to be related by law to Walsh? If so, certainly would explain that constant attempts to defend him, even in situations where its quite obvious he and his staff screwed up in a not so small way.

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    Default Re: Green and Mahinmi deals flat, no options

    Quote Originally Posted by cinotimz View Post
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    Are u the same Bulletproof from years gone by that was rumored to be related by law to Walsh? If so, certainly would explain that constant attempts to defend him, even in situations where its quite obvious he and his staff screwed up in a not so small way.
    Really?



    REALLY?

    Guess Olblu isn't alone on my ignore list anymore....

    I mean, REALLY?
    Last edited by Sandman21; 07-16-2012 at 12:38 PM.
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    Default Re: Green and Mahinmi deals flat, no options

    I can't believe there aren't any Team Options or unguaranteed salary on either contract! Good work Walsh! It's this type of tripe as to why I was so vehemently opposed to Walsh's return.

    Mahinmi only got a "2 year" contract from Dallas with the last year at $900,000, and yet he gets a 4 mil a year for 4 years from Walsh. "Just exactly what did Mahinmi do in Dallas to warrant a 4 year contract with no Team Options or unguaranteed salary?" Ridiculous!! I'll venture a guess that there is no Team Option in Hill's contract either.

    It's this type of tripe along with overpaying Hill that put the Pacers in the shape they were in when Bird took over. You know the shape Walsh created. Simon wanted his security blanket, welcome to it Herb!

    Yes, times are a changin in more than 1 way. "I can't believe what I'm about to say", BUT under the current circumstances I'm truly sorry to see Bird leave the Pacers!!! I'm now feeling more than ever it wasn't Bird's health that was the main reason Bird decided to leave.
    Last edited by Justin Tyme; 07-16-2012 at 10:36 AM.

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    Default Re: Green and Mahinmi deals flat, no options

    Quote Originally Posted by cinotimz View Post
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    Except for the fact that by the time Scola was released there was no way the Pacers could bid as they were over the cap so there would be no way the Pacers could bid and therefore absolutely no need for his agent to even bother calling. At this point I dont care enough to check the Brand timeline. But it makes for a nice story.

    Are u the same Bulletproof from years gone by that was rumored to be related by law to Walsh? If so, certainly would explain that constant attempts to defend him, even in situations where its quite obvious he and his staff screwed up in a not so small way.
    No, he is not.

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    Default Re: Green and Mahinmi deals flat, no options

    Quote Originally Posted by Justin Tyme View Post
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    Mahinmi only got a "2 year" contract from Dallas with the last year at $900,000, and yet he gets a 4 mil a year for 4 years from Walsh. "Just exactly what did Mahinmi do in Dallas to warrant a 4 year contract with no Team Options or unguaranteed salary?"
    Come on, that's just silly. You're honestly shocked that a young big man's second contract is bigger than his first? 4mil/yr is not gonna break us for a backup big man.

    Ridiculous!! I'll venture a guess that there is no Team Option in Hill's contract either.
    This worries me a little more. I have a hard time imagining Hill earning that contract over the next 5 years.
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  21. #13

    Default Re: Green and Mahinmi deals flat, no options

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthem View Post
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    Come on, that's just silly. You're honestly shocked that a young big man's second contract is bigger than his first? 4mil/yr is not gonna break us for a backup big man.


    This worries me a little more. I have a hard time imagining Hill earning that contract over the next 5 years.

    Ist this is Mahinmi's 3rd contract, rookie contract with SA, and 2nd contract Dallas only gave him a 2 years at $900,000. The Pacers just gave Mahimni a 4.5 X's raise "fully guaranteed". This is what you should be concerned about not so much the money. There is no way out of the contract for 4 years if Mahinmi becomes unproductive stiff. His contract then becomes an albatross for the length of the contract. This isn't another JO that Walsh plucked from Dallas.

    2nd AGAIN, what did Mahinmi do in Dallas to justify Walsh giving that type of contract? Giving a b/u big who is going into his 6th year w/o having made a mark in the NBA a 4 year guaranteed contract for the life of the contract. UNBELIEVEABLE!

    3rd Why no TO or unguaranteed years? This is what is distrubing to me! It's called CYOA. Walsh didn't cover his, Herb's, or the Pacers with this contract.

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    Running with the Big Boys BillS's Avatar
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    Default Re: Green and Mahinmi deals flat, no options

    Quote Originally Posted by Justin Tyme View Post
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    This isn't another JO that Walsh plucked from Dallas.
    It's also nowhere near JO level in terms of $$$.

    $4M flat contract means even this year alone the contract is only 1/14th of the cap space, with it being less as time goes on. This is not going to be a problem in terms being able to use it for filler in a future trade if needed.

    We're operating in a vacuum because we don't know what was on the table from other places for Mahinmi.

    Other than that, though, my predictions are starting to come true. "Thanks, Pritchard, for Green & Augustin, but damn that Walsh for sticking us with Mahinmi!"
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    Default Re: Green and Mahinmi deals flat, no options

    Holy cow Justin Tyme, you're blowing this thing WAY out of proportion.

    If Mahinmi does exactly what he did last year, he's worth 4 million a year. He doesn't have to do a ton to justify 4 million a year. Just be a solid backup big. That's it. You're making it sound like we gave this guy Hibberts contract or something. A 4 million a year contract isn't a big deal at all. There's nothing unbelievable or outrageous or crazy about it.

    You're really trying to make something out of nothing.

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    Play McRoberts and Price! BRushWithDeath's Avatar
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    Default Re: Green and Mahinmi deals flat, no options

    4 years is a probably a little longer than ideal, especially when you just used a first round pick on a guy who is supposed to fill the same role, but Mahinmi's deal is not even close to the biggest mistake by our front office this offseason.
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    Default Re: Green and Mahinmi deals flat, no options

    With Mahinmi you have to project a little bit. Big men take a little longer to develop AND we got this guy right in the prime of his career (25 yrs old). We are going to get the best this guy have to offer.

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    Default Re: Green and Mahinmi deals flat, no options

    Quote Originally Posted by xBulletproof View Post
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    Holy cow Justin Tyme, you're blowing this thing WAY out of proportion.

    If Mahinmi does exactly what he did last year, he's worth 4 million a year. He doesn't have to do a ton to justify 4 million a year. Just be a solid backup big. That's it. You're making it sound like we gave this guy Hibberts contract or something. A 4 million a year contract isn't a big deal at all. There's nothing unbelievable or outrageous or crazy about it.

    You're really trying to make something out of nothing.

    Geez folks, a little reading would help! All you see is the 4 mil as my issue with this contract? You might want to re-read the post again. I explicitly stated that NO TO's AND THE GUARANTEED MONEY was distrubing to me. Yet, out of all the things I mentioned you concentrate and target on the 4 mil salary. Why not address the real issues... no TO & each year guaranteed money?

    I was a huge advocate of getting Green. I'm glad he's a Pacer, BUT he should have had some sort of a safeguard, TO or unguaranteed year, in his contract too.

  29. #19

    Default Re: Green and Mahinmi deals flat, no options

    I don't get the hate for the Mahinmi deal, if the guy can just work on his fouling hes totally worth the money. Much less improve the other aspects of his game.

    Plus IIRC hes improved his fouling per 36 every single year hes been in the league.

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    Default Re: Green and Mahinmi deals flat, no options

    Quote Originally Posted by Justin Tyme View Post
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    Geez folks, a little reading would help! All you see is the 4 mil as my issue with this contract? You might want to re-read the post again. I explicitly stated that NO TO's AND THE GUARANTEED MONEY was distrubing to me. Yet, out of all the things I mentioned you concentrate and target on the 4 mil salary. Why not address the real issues... no TO & each year guaranteed money?

    I was a huge advocate of getting Green. I'm glad he's a Pacer, BUT he should have had some sort of a safeguard, TO or unguaranteed year, in his contract too.
    Their contracts are for $4 and $3.5 million respectively. If they flame out, it isn't that big of a deal that they're fully guaranteed, as are nearly every NBA contract. If you're going to be pissed about a contract, be pissed about George Hill's.
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    Default Re: Green and Mahinmi deals flat, no options

    Quote Originally Posted by BillS View Post
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    It's also nowhere near JO level in terms of $$$.

    $4M flat contract means even this year alone the contract is only 1/14th of the cap space, with it being less as time goes on. This is not going to be a problem in terms being able to use it for filler in a future trade if needed.

    We're operating in a vacuum because we don't know what was on the table from other places for Mahinmi.

    Other than that, though, my predictions are starting to come true. "Thanks, Pritchard, for Green & Augustin, but damn that Walsh for sticking us with Mahinmi!"

    I NEVER said a thing about JO's money, now did I? Why don't you just pull something out of the air to say? I was referring to the trade to get JO, and Walsh didn't pluck another JO in Mahinmi.

    So operating in a vacuum not knowing what a b/u big might get is reason to give a 4 year guaranteed contract w/o any TO's? WOW! I could possibly understand your thinking if this was a high tier player, but lets be honest Mahinmi isn't exactly a household name or a productive starter on a team. He is what he is... b/u big who has accomplised little in the NBA. I guess I could just take the attitude that many others have, it's not my money so why care.

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  35. #22

    Default Re: Green and Mahinmi deals flat, no options

    Quote Originally Posted by joew8302 View Post
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    With Mahinmi you have to project a little bit. Big men take a little longer to develop AND we got this guy right in the prime of his career (25 yrs old). We are going to get the best this guy have to offer.


    You also need to CYOA while doing it. You have absolutely no guarantees Mahnimi won't end up being nothing more than a big stiff with a LONG GUARANTEED CONTRACT.

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    Default Re: Green and Mahinmi deals flat, no options

    Quote Originally Posted by Justin Tyme View Post
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    You also need to CYOA while doing it. You have absolutely no guarantees Mahnimi won't end up being nothing more than a big stiff with a LONG GUARANTEED CONTRACT.

    Gee, if that is the case why ever sign any young big?

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  39. #24

    Default Re: Green and Mahinmi deals flat, no options

    Quote Originally Posted by Justin Tyme View Post
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    I NEVER said a thing about JO's money, now did I? Why don't you just pull something out of the air to say? I was referring to the trade to get JO, and Walsh didn't pluck another JO in Mahinmi.

    So operating in a vacuum not knowing what a b/u big might get is reason to give a 4 year guaranteed contract w/o any TO's? WOW! I could possibly understand your thinking if this was a high tier player, but lets be honest Mahinmi isn't exactly a household name or a productive starter on a team. He is what he is... b/u big who has accomplised little in the NBA. I guess I could just take the attitude that many others have, it's not my money so why care.
    You might as well save your breath. All some people on here see is that you are questioning the brass of the Pacers. That your not fully on board with all their moves. These moves should be questioned. They make no sense IN SOME CASES. Hill was way overpaid, was not going to get that anywhere other than here. The Mahinimi deal is absurd. Nobody was going to give him anywhere near that deal let alone what we gave Dallas in return. We are giving away valuable assests and as a small market, we can't afford to do that.

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    Default Re: Green and Mahinmi deals flat, no options

    Quote Originally Posted by BRushWithDeath View Post
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    If you're going to be pissed about a contract, be pissed about George Hill's.

    I believe I'm on record "numerous x's" over the last few weeks about Hill's contract by Walsh.

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