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Thread: The Pacers have turned into an incredibly young team

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    Artificial Intelligence wintermute's Avatar
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    Default The Pacers have turned into an incredibly young team

    I don't think we've realized yet how young the Pacers as a team are after the offseason moves. It's not that we filled the roster with rookies, but it's that we've taken a bunch of 30 year olds from last year's team (Foster, D. Jones, Amundson, Barbosa) and replaced them with 25 year olds.

    Last year's team has an average chronological age of 27.09 (or 26.9 by my calculation), which places the Pacers in the middle of the pack according to this link. This year's team has an average age of 25.63, a number which would have placed the Pacers as the 6th youngest team last year.



    Some points of interest:

    * Our third oldest player is Tyler Hansbrough, at 26.7 years.

    * Paul G and Lance remain our youngest players, by a fairly wide margin.

    * 7 of our 13 players are roughly in the 25-26 age range (round up Augustin, round down Hansbrough). Likewise, we have a bunch of guys with 4-5 years experience. We seem to be heavy on "young veterans" - guys who aren't on rookie contracts anymore, but aren't exactly grizzled vets either.

    * Actually, Green and Mahinmi's years of experience are misleading. Officially, they've played 5 and 4 years respectively in the league, but both were light minute players in their career so far. Green has only totaled 3673 NBA minutes, while Mahinmi only has 1815. In comparison, Paul G has totaled 3223 minutes in his 2 NBA seasons.

    * Our 2 oldest players (West and Granger) are both starters and key players for the team. No "veteran mentor" types on this squad!

    Age and experience is generally correlated with winning in the playoffs, so it's a little disturbing to see us go young at a point when most are expecting us to make a move towards the ECF. Maybe the Pacers' FO doesn't believe that age is related to winning - OKC for example, is a notable exception to the general rule. But I would think that the FO knew they were potentially taking a step back by going so young.

    It does cast this offseason's moves in a new light. Far from taking the next step as a team, it would seem that the FO has rebuilt the team with long term viability in mind. It's a Spurs-like move really, of keeping the core players intact while swapping the replaceable parts around. A big difference though is that the Spurs' core has proven a heck of a lot more than the Pacers' core.

    All that aside, we have one of the youngest teams in the league with still some upside to improve. That's the kind of team fans like to see, right?

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    Pacer Junky Will Galen's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Pacers have turned into an incredibly young team

    Another point of interest is that we have drafted, or had drafted for us, seven of our thirteen players. I wonder how that compares with the rest of the league?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Will Galen View Post
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    Another point of interest is that we have drafted, or had drafted for us, seven of our thirteen players. I wonder how that compares with the rest of the league?
    The pistons are sitting at 11 out of 15, including the projected starting 5. This also doesn't include kravtsov, our UDFA rookie.

    We only have 3 players on the roster who have played for another NBA team, and all three of them have expiring contracts.

    Our roster average age is roughly 25, though that could change if Ben Wallace comes back.
    Last edited by Kstat; 07-23-2012 at 12:06 AM.

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    Default Re: The Pacers have turned into an incredibly young team

    I love that Roy and Ian are the same age and both signed for the next 4 years. I hope they become fast friends and workout partners. It can only help Roy to have a taller (than Lou) and more athletic player to practice against. And hopefully he can pass on some of his offensive skills to Ian.

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    Default Re: The Pacers have turned into an incredibly young team

    Lance is 21, that is why this isn't a make or break year for him, sure you want progress and him to become a rotation player, but he has time if he keeps working.

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    Default Re: The Pacers have turned into an incredibly young team

    Thanks WM - I had not considered the age change these moves have caused. Very interesting. I think it can be a positive because we have a lot of playoff experience even though we are pretty young.

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    Default Re: The Pacers have turned into an incredibly young team

    What makes the average age number even more impressive is that both of our draft picks our 23. Most guys getting drafting now are 20 or younger. We got have two 23 yr old rookies and our average age is still 25.63.

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    Default Re: The Pacers have turned into an incredibly young team

    This is one of the things I liked about the moves, that at least the Pacers are trying to build for the future, giving Mahinmi and Green those long term deals show that.
    Last edited by vnzla81; 07-23-2012 at 10:33 AM.

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    Default Re: The Pacers have turned into an incredibly young team

    Your image no longer works for me, but I saw this last night and wanted to say thanks, these are the types of excellent posts I appreciate. Very informative.
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    Default Re: The Pacers have turned into an incredibly young team

    I never realized how young we really were. This kind of gives me a feeling that we will move Danny after the season for a younger talent to extend the window of winning, of course I have no way to back that up, just a gut instinct.
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    Default Re: The Pacers have turned into an incredibly young team

    To be this young and a solid playoff team is pretty exciting. Kevin and Larry said they were trying to build a core that would grow together and it looks like they accomplished it.

    BTW. Great post. Best post on this site in a while.

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    Default Re: The Pacers have turned into an incredibly young team

    Quote Originally Posted by Speed View Post
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    Lance is 21, that is why this isn't a make or break year for him, sure you want progress and him to become a rotation player, but he has time if he keeps working.
    I think Lance is going to soar this year! I'm almost more excited about the reserves than the starters!

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    Default Re: The Pacers have turned into an incredibly young team

    Love that the Pacers are a young team. Means that guys can continue to improve their game.

    Really looking forward to Vogel and seeing if he makes any changes in the offensive/defensive scheme. I would love to see some changes cause this is a young and now athletic team.
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    Default Re: The Pacers have turned into an incredibly young team

    Quote Originally Posted by Kid Minneapolis View Post
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    Your image no longer works for me, but I saw this last night and wanted to say thanks, these are the types of excellent posts I appreciate. Very informative.
    The image doesn't work any more? Oops So much for Imageshack...

    Here's the google docs spreadsheet version in case anyone's interested:

    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...Eg1Q3ZLT1dBbXc

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    Default Re: The Pacers have turned into an incredibly young team

    I actually wish we had signed more seasoned veterans. I would've been happy with guys like Antwaan Jamison or Elton Brand. The glory years of the mid 90's and early 200's typically saw the Pacers add key veterans to get us over the hump. Guys like Mark Jackson, Chris Mullin, Sam Perkins, etc.
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    Default Re: The Pacers have turned into an incredibly young team

    Btw, it's interesting to me that so many people reacted so positively to this post when the spin I put on it isn't all that positive. I guess we all take away different things from the same data

    Another thought was that this isn't a particularly cheap way to build a roster. We're pretty near the luxury tax for a team that doesn't have all that much proven NBA talent. So basically we're counting on guys to grow into their contracts - and in fairness I think we see the possible upside with this group of guys.

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    Default Re: The Pacers have turned into an incredibly young team

    Quote Originally Posted by wintermute View Post
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    Btw, it's interesting to me that so many people reacted so positively to this post when the spin I put on it isn't all that positive. I guess we all take away different things from the same data

    Another thought was that this isn't a particularly cheap way to build a roster. We're pretty near the luxury tax for a team that doesn't have all that much proven NBA talent. So basically we're counting on guys to grow into their contracts - and in fairness I think we see the possible upside with this group of guys.
    I'm just moving on. No use staying angry at changes that are done and can't be undone. Time to focus on the positives.

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    Default Re: The Pacers have turned into an incredibly young team

    Quote Originally Posted by wintermute View Post
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    Btw, it's interesting to me that so many people reacted so positively to this post when the spin I put on it isn't all that positive. I guess we all take away different things from the same data

    Another thought was that this isn't a particularly cheap way to build a roster. We're pretty near the luxury tax for a team that doesn't have all that much proven NBA talent. So basically we're counting on guys to grow into their contracts - and in fairness I think we see the possible upside with this group of guys.
    Keep in mind that a less experienced version of this team with a weaker bench had the 5th best record in the entire NBA last season, and pushed the eventual champions in a 6 game series. We have a key guy in Paul George who has major room for improvement, I also don't believe we've seen the best of either George Hill or Roy Hibbert just yet. I would like to see what this group can do with an improved bench and a full training camp (remember, this team has not had a full training camp under Vogel) Chemistry is a strength, but it could still get much much better.

    Going young with the bench allows them to integrate on the same learning path with everyone on the team. Personally, I like the direction and I'm going to enjoy watching this group grow together. The bench was a problem last year whether people want to see it or not, I think we have made a major upgrade.
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    Default Re: The Pacers have turned into an incredibly young team

    Quote Originally Posted by Steagles View Post
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    I never realized how young we really were. This kind of gives me a feeling that we will move Danny after the season for a younger talent to extend the window of winning, of course I have no way to back that up, just a gut instinct.
    You could be right. But I could also see DG coming back on a smaller deal to be our 6th man, while either bringing in someone to be the starter OR PG shifting to the SF spot and us bringing in a good scorer at the 2.

    Obviously that'd be asking a lot of a teams former "star" player, but Danny's always seemed like a good soldier, and this move wouldn't surprise me in the least bit. DG's game should age pretty well because he already plays an "old man's game".

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    Default Re: The Pacers have turned into an incredibly young team

    Quote Originally Posted by Ace E.Anderson View Post
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    You could be right. But I could also see DG coming back on a smaller deal to be our 6th man, while either bringing in someone to be the starter OR PG shifting to the SF spot and us bringing in a good scorer at the 2.

    Obviously that'd be asking a lot of a teams former "star" player, but Danny's always seemed like a good soldier, and this move wouldn't surprise me in the least bit. DG's game should age pretty well because he already plays an "old man's game".
    Aint that the truth... If Paul gets awesome then we shall see.
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    Default Re: The Pacers have turned into an incredibly young team

    Quote Originally Posted by Pacergeek View Post
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    I actually wish we had signed more seasoned veterans. I would've been happy with guys like Antwaan Jamison or Elton Brand. The glory years of the mid 90's and early 200's typically saw the Pacers add key veterans to get us over the hump. Guys like Mark Jackson, Chris Mullin, Sam Perkins, etc.
    Except that we never did get over the hump. I'm not going to argue against the benefit a veteran can give to a team, but if getting a guy like Jamison meant we didn't get DJ, Mahinmi, or Green, then I'd rather go young and build a core that can grow together. I like the veteran leadership we have in Granger and (especially) West, and am content to go young after that.

    Now, if I had to choose between Nash and DJ, well.... I'd be willing to go with the veteran in that case.

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    Default Re: The Pacers have turned into an incredibly young team

    Quote Originally Posted by Pacergeek View Post
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    I actually wish we had signed more seasoned veterans. I would've been happy with guys like Antwaan Jamison or Elton Brand. The glory years of the mid 90's and early 200's typically saw the Pacers add key veterans to get us over the hump. Guys like Mark Jackson, Chris Mullin, Sam Perkins, etc.
    Yes, but they were adding veterans to a veteran team, while still adding young players like Rose, Best, Davis, and Harrington to come off the bench. They also didn't bring in a veteran every offseason.

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    Default Re: The Pacers have turned into an incredibly young team

    Quote Originally Posted by Kstat View Post
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    The pistons are sitting at 11 out of 15, including the projected starting 5. This also doesn't include kravtsov, our UDFA rookie.

    We only have 3 players on the roster who have played for another NBA team, and all three of them have expiring contracts.

    Our roster average age is roughly 25, though that could change if Ben Wallace comes back.
    Now you just need to get some good players...

    Ok...maybe Monroe is pretty good.

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