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Thread: Cash Considerations kept quiet in the Mahinmi/Dallas deal??

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    Default Cash Considerations kept quiet in the Mahinmi/Dallas deal??

    It just doesn't add up. A pure salary dump of two players with expiring reasonable contracts when you already have tons of capspace to sign the player and subsequent players you would like to sign. Typically at the very least, both probably couldve garnered a 2nd rounder-not unlike the second rounder we gave Toronto for Barbosa. So then why do it? Roster spots werent at a premium either. Wasnt like we had to have the room. So why? Is Walsh and company really so inept?

    Then BP got me thinking. While its typical that a draft choice is exchanged n such deals, sometimes there are cash considerations. I believe up to 3.1 million can be included in each transaction this year. So maybe Cuban-especially given his direction-would prefer to keep his draft choices for now and instead ponied up some cash instead-which hes been known to do...and the Pacers are known to be not one of the more financially solid teams...so....and even moreso if the Pacers did end up doing the same as Portland was rumored to be doing with Roys contract.

    And if so, is it any surprise that such wasnt made public? That they basically sold the two players for cash? Not that theres anything wrong with this....in fact in some ways it would be a bit of a relief....knowing we didnt actually just give 2 decent players with good contracts away for nothing. Now, the fact we did so for strictly cash...well...thats a whole new can of worms....

    I love a good conspiracy theory as much as the next guy.....and this sounds incredibly plausible...

    Have fun

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    Default Re: Cash Considerations kept quiet in the Mahinmi/Dallas deal??


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    Default Re: Cash Considerations kept quiet in the Mahinmi/Dallas deal??

    It hasn't been reported, but I believe we also received a coupon for a free backrub and a year's supply of calendars. Moreover, Donnie Nelson invited Kevin Pritchard to join the super secret general managers' Pen15 club, but whether or not KP has accepted this offer is unclear.

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    Default Re: Cash Considerations kept quiet in the Mahinmi/Dallas deal??

    Quote Originally Posted by LoneGranger33 View Post
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    It hasn't been reported, but I believe we also received a coupon for a free backrub and a year's supply of calendars. Moreover, Donnie Nelson invited Kevin Pritchard to join the super secret general managers' Pen15 club, but whether or not KP has accepted this offer is unclear.

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    Default Re: Cash Considerations kept quiet in the Mahinmi/Dallas deal??

    Quote Originally Posted by cinotimz View Post
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    It just doesn't add up. A pure salary dump of two players with expiring reasonable contracts when you already have tons of capspace to sign the player and subsequent players you would like to sign. Typically at the very least, both probably couldve garnered a 2nd rounder-not unlike the second rounder we gave Toronto for Barbosa. So then why do it? Roster spots werent at a premium either. Wasnt like we had to have the room. So why? Is Walsh and company really so inept?

    Then BP got me thinking. While its typical that a draft choice is exchanged n such deals, sometimes there are cash considerations. I believe up to 3.1 million can be included in each transaction this year. So maybe Cuban-especially given his direction-would prefer to keep his draft choices for now and instead ponied up some cash instead-which hes been known to do...and the Pacers are known to be not one of the more financially solid teams...so....and even moreso if the Pacers did end up doing the same as Portland was rumored to be doing with Roys contract.

    And if so, is it any surprise that such wasnt made public? That they basically sold the two players for cash? Not that theres anything wrong with this....in fact in some ways it would be a bit of a relief....knowing we didnt actually just give 2 decent players with good contracts away for nothing. Now, the fact we did so for strictly cash...well...thats a whole new can of worms....

    I love a good conspiracy theory as much as the next guy.....and this sounds incredibly plausible...

    Have fun


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    Default Re: Cash Considerations kept quiet in the Mahinmi/Dallas deal??

    No.
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    Default Re: Cash Considerations kept quiet in the Mahinmi/Dallas deal??

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    Default Re: Cash Considerations kept quiet in the Mahinmi/Dallas deal??

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    Default Re: Cash Considerations kept quiet in the Mahinmi/Dallas deal??

    Quote Originally Posted by ilive4sports View Post
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    Default Re: Cash Considerations kept quiet in the Mahinmi/Dallas deal??

    Quote Originally Posted by cinotimz View Post
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    So why? Is Walsh and company really so inept?

    The front office inept? I don't think they are. Our front five held their own with Miami, so they brought them back intact. Our key reserves didn't get the job done last year, so the front office has made the 2ed unit bigger and much more athletic.

    You might not agree with the choices the front office has made, but that hardly makes them inept.

    It appears to me they've given Vogal a more smashmouth team, now it's up to him. I think it is smart to go with two units during the season, because I think it keeps injuries down. However, I'm with Peck and think the rotations have to be shortened during the playoffs.

    I think calling the front office inept when the team is months away from even playing a game and actually seeing what the results are makes you look . . . bad. Or you are just trolling, and from the tone of your whole post, that's what I suspect.

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    Default Re: Cash Considerations kept quiet in the Mahinmi/Dallas deal??

    Quote Originally Posted by Will Galen View Post
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    The front office inept? I don't think they are. Our front five held their own with Miami, so they brought them back intact. Our key reserves didn't get the job done last year, so the front office has made the 2ed unit bigger and much more athletic.

    You might not agree with the choices the front office has made, but that hardly makes them inept.

    It appears to me they've given Vogal a more smashmouth team, now it's up to him. I think it is smart to go with two units during the season, because I think it keeps injuries down. However, I'm with Peck and think the rotations have to be shortened during the playoffs.

    I think calling the front office inept when the team is months away from even playing a game and actually seeing what the results are makes you look . . . bad. Or you are just trolling, and from the tone of your whole post, that's what I suspect.
    The front office has done well considering we are a small market team that won't attract super stars.......

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    Default Re: Cash Considerations kept quiet in the Mahinmi/Dallas deal??

    Quote Originally Posted by Will Galen View Post
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    The front office inept? I don't think they are. Our front five held their own with Miami, so they brought them back intact. Our key reserves didn't get the job done last year, so the front office has made the 2ed unit bigger and much more athletic.

    You might not agree with the choices the front office has made, but that hardly makes them inept.

    It appears to me they've given Vogal a more smashmouth team, now it's up to him. I think it is smart to go with two units during the season, because I think it keeps injuries down. However, I'm with Peck and think the rotations have to be shortened during the playoffs.

    I think calling the front office inept when the team is months away from even playing a game and actually seeing what the results are makes you look . . . bad. Or you are just trolling, and from the tone of your whole post, that's what I suspect.
    Will you lost sigh of the forest for the trees...and missed the whole point...

    I dont believe theyre inept. Which is why I find it almost impossible to believe they would give away two players. And get nothiing in return. Nothing. This wasnt Mike Dunleavey and Troy Murphy on bloated longterm contracts. These are expirings at little money and guys that can actually play and contribute... Hence where the possibility of them actually gettting something...CASH...and it just not being reported. Now that does make alot of sense. Its frankly a whole helluva lot more plausible than getting nothing.

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    Default Re: Cash Considerations kept quiet in the Mahinmi/Dallas deal??

    Quote Originally Posted by cinotimz View Post
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    Will you lost sigh of the forest for the trees...and missed the whole point...

    I dont believe theyre inept. Which is why I find it almost impossible to believe they would give away two players. And get nothiing in return. Nothing. This wasnt Mike Dunleavey and Troy Murphy on bloated longterm contracts. These are expirings at little money and guys that can actually play and contribute... Hence where the possibility of them actually gettting something...CASH...and it just not being reported. Now that does make alot of sense. Its frankly a whole helluva lot more plausible than getting nothing.
    Do you know anything about basketball? We only traded DC + Dahntay for Mahinmi in order to get rid of DJ's contract. That led us space to sign Gerald Green and arguably a better point guard than DC in Augustine. The trade was lopsided for a reason. The whole point of doing sign in trades with an UFA is to get rid of contracts. We SAVED by doing that.

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    Default Re: Cash Considerations kept quiet in the Mahinmi/Dallas deal??

    Quote Originally Posted by PacerPenguins View Post
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    Do you know anything about basketball? We only traded DC + Dahntay for Mahinmi in order to get rid of DJ's contract. That led us space to sign Gerald Green and arguably a better point guard than DC in Augustine. The trade was lopsided for a reason. The whole point of doing sign in trades with an UFA is to get rid of contracts. We SAVED by doing that.
    Ummm...do I? Yes...actually I do...We didnt have to get rid of DJs contract or anyone elses to do any of the aforementioned deals. We had the capspace to sign them all. And no, the whole reason for doing sign and trades is typically because the team getting the free agent cant sign them outright. But in this case we couldve. Because we had the capspace. Its not a hard concept.

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    Default Re: Cash Considerations kept quiet in the Mahinmi/Dallas deal??

    Quote Originally Posted by cinotimz View Post
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    Ummm...do I? Yes...actually I do...We didnt have to get rid of DJs contract or anyone elses to do any of the aforementioned deals. We had the capspace to sign them all. And no, the whole reason for doing sign and trades is typically because the team getting the free agent cant sign them outright. But in this case we couldve. Because we had the capspace. Its not a hard concept.
    Yes we had the money, but like Walsh said we are already over cap. If we would have done the same moves we would be about 6-7 mil above the cap and no way Simon does that. He made a basketball move. Also if we wanted Gerald Green then y in the hell would we pay DJ to do nothing, makes no sense. Green > DJ... toss up who you think is better between Augustine and DC.. DC has his moments but just not an effective player and the offense is stagnant.

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    Default Re: Cash Considerations kept quiet in the Mahinmi/Dallas deal??

    Quote Originally Posted by cinotimz View Post
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    Ummm...do I? Yes...actually I do...We didnt have to get rid of DJs contract or anyone elses to do any of the aforementioned deals. We had the capspace to sign them all. And no, the whole reason for doing sign and trades is typically because the team getting the free agent cant sign them outright. But in this case we couldve. Because we had the capspace. Its not a hard concept.
    We HAD the cap space. Are we under the cap now? No!

    The front office knew we were going to need MORE cap space, thus the REASON they did things the way they did.

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    Default Re: Cash Considerations kept quiet in the Mahinmi/Dallas deal??

    Quote Originally Posted by cinotimz View Post
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    Will you lost sigh of the forest for the trees...and missed the whole point...
    No, I got your point, I just didn't address that part of your post. The point you are talking about is pure speculation, and even if true I didn't care if they got some cash back. Plus I don't agree with your conclusion that they gave away 2 players for nothing. To me that's so obviously not true that in wasn't worth debating. Of course I knew you were . . . can't think of the word I want . . .let's just say you were overstating the case for effect.

    One point for example, what did a lot of guys on this forum complain about last season? They complained that Hibbert was to slow to go out as far on the floor as he sometimes had to.

    Knowing that, and that Hibbert might not be coming back, Bird did the smart thing and chose a center in the draft.

    However, we needed more, so the new front office did something about it and went out and got another guy that can play center. Both are much quicker than Roy.

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    Default Re: Cash Considerations kept quiet in the Mahinmi/Dallas deal??

    Counting cap holds and Plumlee's pick our payroll was at ~47.3 million. The cap's 58 million. So we had roughly a bit shy of 11 million to spend. Let's pretend we keep everybody (screw roster spots), no trades, and just sign everyone outright. Add Green's first year salary of 3.1, Mahinmi's 3.7, Augustin's 3.5 and Johnson's assumed ~750k, we're over the cap by a few hundred k. So that doesn't work.

    And then you add the new money from the Hill and Hibbert extensions and we're dangerously close to being in the luxury tax.

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    Default Re: Cash Considerations kept quiet in the Mahinmi/Dallas deal??

    Quote Originally Posted by Heisenberg View Post
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    Counting cap holds and Plumlee's pick our payroll was at ~47.3 million. The cap's 58 million. So we had roughly a bit shy of 11 million to spend. Let's pretend we keep everybody (screw roster spots), no trades, and just sign everyone outright. Add Green's first year salary of 3.1, Mahinmi's 3.7, Augustin's 3.5 and Johnson's assumed ~750k, we're over the cap by a few hundred k. So that doesn't work.

    And then you add the new money from the Hill and Hibbert extensions and we're dangerously close to being in the luxury tax.
    DING DING DING....

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    Default Re: Cash Considerations kept quiet in the Mahinmi/Dallas deal??

    Herb Simon DOES NOT WANT TO PAY THE LUXURY TAX.

    Thus, Dahntay and Darren had to be moved for us to get DJ and Green.
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    Default Re: Cash Considerations kept quiet in the Mahinmi/Dallas deal??

    Quote Originally Posted by Sandman21 View Post
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    Herb Simon DOES NOT WANT TO PAY THE LUXURY TAX.

    Thus, Dahntay and Darren had to be moved for us to get DJ and Green.
    Thats a really bad reason for giving players away. Thats bad business. Especially since the Luxury Tax is done on the year end salary and not July of the offseason. Theres no way those players couldnt have garnered at least a 2nd rounder each....none...maybe not now...though Collison almost assuredly could have now....D Jones? probably so by the trade deadline. We gave a 2nd for Barbosa. Thats why I tend to believe we got something. Just not a pick...a bit of cash. And under the current situation with Simon probably sensitive to the fact that rumors have it that Bird left because he wasnt willing to spend money....well they chose to keep that cash quiet. Which is certainly their prerogative.

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    Default Re: Cash Considerations kept quiet in the Mahinmi/Dallas deal??

    Quote Originally Posted by cinotimz View Post
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    Thats a really bad reason for giving players away. Thats bad business. Especially since the Luxury Tax is done on the year end salary and not July of the offseason. Theres no way those players couldnt have garnered at least a 2nd rounder each....none...maybe not now...though Collison almost assuredly could have now....D Jones? probably so by the trade deadline. We gave a 2nd for Barbosa. Thats why I tend to believe we got something. Just not a pick...a bit of cash. And under the current situation with Simon probably sensitive to the fact that rumors have it that Bird left because he wasnt willing to spend money....well they chose to keep that cash quiet. Which is certainly their prerogative.
    really easy to say when its not your money. Even the knicks are looking to avoid the luxury tax as much as possible.

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    Default Re: Cash Considerations kept quiet in the Mahinmi/Dallas deal??

    Quote Originally Posted by ilive4sports View Post
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    really easy to say when its not your money. Even the knicks are looking to avoid the luxury tax as much as possible.
    Lol...excuse me? First of all....They werent going to be in the Luxury Tax. Second of all, if they dont start doing a better job of managing their assets, theyre gonna continue to struggle financially. Lastly, Ive attended somewhere between 500 and 1000 Pacer games in my life and probably one of only a few that was in Florida for playoff games in both Orlando and Miami. So...maybe I do feel like Im entitled to a bit of an opinion on an internet message board. As for it being easy to say...Well apparently just as easy as it is for Simon to say Im not willing to do what is necessary to compete for a title.

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    Default Re: Cash Considerations kept quiet in the Mahinmi/Dallas deal??

    Quote Originally Posted by cinotimz View Post
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    Thats a really bad reason for giving players away. Thats bad business. Especially since the Luxury Tax is done on the year end salary and not July of the offseason. Theres no way those players couldnt have garnered at least a 2nd rounder each....none...maybe not now...though Collison almost assuredly could have now....D Jones? probably so by the trade deadline. We gave a 2nd for Barbosa. Thats why I tend to believe we got something. Just not a pick...a bit of cash. And under the current situation with Simon probably sensitive to the fact that rumors have it that Bird left because he wasnt willing to spend money....well they chose to keep that cash quiet. Which is certainly their prerogative.
    We just bought a low second round pick for cash. Why should anyone care if we could have possibly gotten a second round pick by assuming risk? The cash savings on theses guys is enough to purchase said pick.

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    Default Re: Cash Considerations kept quiet in the Mahinmi/Dallas deal??

    Quote Originally Posted by spazzxb View Post
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    We just bought a low second round pick for cash. Why should anyone care if we could have possibly gotten a second round pick by assuming risk? The cash savings on theses guys is enough to purchase said pick.
    Thanks for making my point. We just bought a pick. And we just gave away two players that we realistically shouldve gotten a pick each back for....see how that works? If we manage the assets better we come up with 2 more picks and next time we dont have to buy a pick.

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