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Thread: Cash Considerations kept quiet in the Mahinmi/Dallas deal??

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    Default Cash Considerations kept quiet in the Mahinmi/Dallas deal??

    It just doesn't add up. A pure salary dump of two players with expiring reasonable contracts when you already have tons of capspace to sign the player and subsequent players you would like to sign. Typically at the very least, both probably couldve garnered a 2nd rounder-not unlike the second rounder we gave Toronto for Barbosa. So then why do it? Roster spots werent at a premium either. Wasnt like we had to have the room. So why? Is Walsh and company really so inept?

    Then BP got me thinking. While its typical that a draft choice is exchanged n such deals, sometimes there are cash considerations. I believe up to 3.1 million can be included in each transaction this year. So maybe Cuban-especially given his direction-would prefer to keep his draft choices for now and instead ponied up some cash instead-which hes been known to do...and the Pacers are known to be not one of the more financially solid teams...so....and even moreso if the Pacers did end up doing the same as Portland was rumored to be doing with Roys contract.

    And if so, is it any surprise that such wasnt made public? That they basically sold the two players for cash? Not that theres anything wrong with this....in fact in some ways it would be a bit of a relief....knowing we didnt actually just give 2 decent players with good contracts away for nothing. Now, the fact we did so for strictly cash...well...thats a whole new can of worms....

    I love a good conspiracy theory as much as the next guy.....and this sounds incredibly plausible...

    Have fun

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    Default Re: Cash Considerations kept quiet in the Mahinmi/Dallas deal??


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    Default Re: Cash Considerations kept quiet in the Mahinmi/Dallas deal??

    It hasn't been reported, but I believe we also received a coupon for a free backrub and a year's supply of calendars. Moreover, Donnie Nelson invited Kevin Pritchard to join the super secret general managers' Pen15 club, but whether or not KP has accepted this offer is unclear.

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    Default Re: Cash Considerations kept quiet in the Mahinmi/Dallas deal??

    Quote Originally Posted by cinotimz View Post
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    It just doesn't add up. A pure salary dump of two players with expiring reasonable contracts when you already have tons of capspace to sign the player and subsequent players you would like to sign. Typically at the very least, both probably couldve garnered a 2nd rounder-not unlike the second rounder we gave Toronto for Barbosa. So then why do it? Roster spots werent at a premium either. Wasnt like we had to have the room. So why? Is Walsh and company really so inept?

    Then BP got me thinking. While its typical that a draft choice is exchanged n such deals, sometimes there are cash considerations. I believe up to 3.1 million can be included in each transaction this year. So maybe Cuban-especially given his direction-would prefer to keep his draft choices for now and instead ponied up some cash instead-which hes been known to do...and the Pacers are known to be not one of the more financially solid teams...so....and even moreso if the Pacers did end up doing the same as Portland was rumored to be doing with Roys contract.

    And if so, is it any surprise that such wasnt made public? That they basically sold the two players for cash? Not that theres anything wrong with this....in fact in some ways it would be a bit of a relief....knowing we didnt actually just give 2 decent players with good contracts away for nothing. Now, the fact we did so for strictly cash...well...thats a whole new can of worms....

    I love a good conspiracy theory as much as the next guy.....and this sounds incredibly plausible...

    Have fun


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    Default Re: Cash Considerations kept quiet in the Mahinmi/Dallas deal??

    No.
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    Default Re: Cash Considerations kept quiet in the Mahinmi/Dallas deal??

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    Default Re: Cash Considerations kept quiet in the Mahinmi/Dallas deal??

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    Default Re: Cash Considerations kept quiet in the Mahinmi/Dallas deal??

    Quote Originally Posted by cinotimz View Post
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    So why? Is Walsh and company really so inept?

    The front office inept? I don't think they are. Our front five held their own with Miami, so they brought them back intact. Our key reserves didn't get the job done last year, so the front office has made the 2ed unit bigger and much more athletic.

    You might not agree with the choices the front office has made, but that hardly makes them inept.

    It appears to me they've given Vogal a more smashmouth team, now it's up to him. I think it is smart to go with two units during the season, because I think it keeps injuries down. However, I'm with Peck and think the rotations have to be shortened during the playoffs.

    I think calling the front office inept when the team is months away from even playing a game and actually seeing what the results are makes you look . . . bad. Or you are just trolling, and from the tone of your whole post, that's what I suspect.

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    Default Re: Cash Considerations kept quiet in the Mahinmi/Dallas deal??

    Quote Originally Posted by Will Galen View Post
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    The front office inept? I don't think they are. Our front five held their own with Miami, so they brought them back intact. Our key reserves didn't get the job done last year, so the front office has made the 2ed unit bigger and much more athletic.

    You might not agree with the choices the front office has made, but that hardly makes them inept.

    It appears to me they've given Vogal a more smashmouth team, now it's up to him. I think it is smart to go with two units during the season, because I think it keeps injuries down. However, I'm with Peck and think the rotations have to be shortened during the playoffs.

    I think calling the front office inept when the team is months away from even playing a game and actually seeing what the results are makes you look . . . bad. Or you are just trolling, and from the tone of your whole post, that's what I suspect.
    The front office has done well considering we are a small market team that won't attract super stars.......

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    Default Re: Cash Considerations kept quiet in the Mahinmi/Dallas deal??

    Quote Originally Posted by Will Galen View Post
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    The front office inept? I don't think they are. Our front five held their own with Miami, so they brought them back intact. Our key reserves didn't get the job done last year, so the front office has made the 2ed unit bigger and much more athletic.

    You might not agree with the choices the front office has made, but that hardly makes them inept.

    It appears to me they've given Vogal a more smashmouth team, now it's up to him. I think it is smart to go with two units during the season, because I think it keeps injuries down. However, I'm with Peck and think the rotations have to be shortened during the playoffs.

    I think calling the front office inept when the team is months away from even playing a game and actually seeing what the results are makes you look . . . bad. Or you are just trolling, and from the tone of your whole post, that's what I suspect.
    Will you lost sigh of the forest for the trees...and missed the whole point...

    I dont believe theyre inept. Which is why I find it almost impossible to believe they would give away two players. And get nothiing in return. Nothing. This wasnt Mike Dunleavey and Troy Murphy on bloated longterm contracts. These are expirings at little money and guys that can actually play and contribute... Hence where the possibility of them actually gettting something...CASH...and it just not being reported. Now that does make alot of sense. Its frankly a whole helluva lot more plausible than getting nothing.

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    Default Re: Cash Considerations kept quiet in the Mahinmi/Dallas deal??

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    Default Re: Cash Considerations kept quiet in the Mahinmi/Dallas deal??

    Quote Originally Posted by cinotimz View Post
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    Will you lost sigh of the forest for the trees...and missed the whole point...

    I dont believe theyre inept. Which is why I find it almost impossible to believe they would give away two players. And get nothiing in return. Nothing. This wasnt Mike Dunleavey and Troy Murphy on bloated longterm contracts. These are expirings at little money and guys that can actually play and contribute... Hence where the possibility of them actually gettting something...CASH...and it just not being reported. Now that does make alot of sense. Its frankly a whole helluva lot more plausible than getting nothing.
    Do you know anything about basketball? We only traded DC + Dahntay for Mahinmi in order to get rid of DJ's contract. That led us space to sign Gerald Green and arguably a better point guard than DC in Augustine. The trade was lopsided for a reason. The whole point of doing sign in trades with an UFA is to get rid of contracts. We SAVED by doing that.

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    Default Re: Cash Considerations kept quiet in the Mahinmi/Dallas deal??

    Quote Originally Posted by LoneGranger33 View Post
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    It hasn't been reported, but I believe we also received a coupon for a free backrub and a year's supply of calendars. Moreover, Donnie Nelson invited Kevin Pritchard to join the super secret general managers' Pen15 club, but whether or not KP has accepted this offer is unclear.

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    Default Re: Cash Considerations kept quiet in the Mahinmi/Dallas deal??

    Quote Originally Posted by PacerPenguins View Post
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    Do you know anything about basketball? We only traded DC + Dahntay for Mahinmi in order to get rid of DJ's contract. That led us space to sign Gerald Green and arguably a better point guard than DC in Augustine. The trade was lopsided for a reason. The whole point of doing sign in trades with an UFA is to get rid of contracts. We SAVED by doing that.
    Ummm...do I? Yes...actually I do...We didnt have to get rid of DJs contract or anyone elses to do any of the aforementioned deals. We had the capspace to sign them all. And no, the whole reason for doing sign and trades is typically because the team getting the free agent cant sign them outright. But in this case we couldve. Because we had the capspace. Its not a hard concept.

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    Default Re: Cash Considerations kept quiet in the Mahinmi/Dallas deal??

    Quote Originally Posted by cinotimz View Post
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    Ummm...do I? Yes...actually I do...We didnt have to get rid of DJs contract or anyone elses to do any of the aforementioned deals. We had the capspace to sign them all. And no, the whole reason for doing sign and trades is typically because the team getting the free agent cant sign them outright. But in this case we couldve. Because we had the capspace. Its not a hard concept.
    Yes we had the money, but like Walsh said we are already over cap. If we would have done the same moves we would be about 6-7 mil above the cap and no way Simon does that. He made a basketball move. Also if we wanted Gerald Green then y in the hell would we pay DJ to do nothing, makes no sense. Green > DJ... toss up who you think is better between Augustine and DC.. DC has his moments but just not an effective player and the offense is stagnant.

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    Default Re: Cash Considerations kept quiet in the Mahinmi/Dallas deal??

    Quote Originally Posted by PacerPenguins View Post
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    Yes we had the money, but like Walsh said we are already over cap. If we would have done the same moves we would be about 6-7 mil above the cap and no way Simon does that. He made a basketball move. Also if we wanted Gerald Green then y in the hell would we pay DJ to do nothing, makes no sense. Green > DJ... toss up who you think is better between Augustine and DC.. DC has his moments but just not an effective player and the offense is stagnant.
    Lol....now wait a minute...you just totally change the story...before you said we had to do it in order to get rid of DJs contract so we would have the room to sign green and dj....but that simply wasnt the case...

    now you say we would be above the cap....not in lux tax land even...just above the cap...and simon wont do that....

    which is pretty much exactly the point....so we gave away assets...for nothing in return. Not because we had to...because we didnt...we gave two players away...for nothing...and now by your words to avoid paying them.

    I was trying to give them the benefit of the doubt and say they didnt want to pay them and maybe they got some cash back out of the deal instead of the normal draft choices....but youre saying no...we just gave them away to avoid paying them....

    which would be a travesty...and an inept front office...unless you consider giving away assets to be prudent...in which case...when can i pick up your car and title to your house???

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    Default Re: Cash Considerations kept quiet in the Mahinmi/Dallas deal??

    Quote Originally Posted by cinotimz View Post
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    Lol....now wait a minute...you just totally change the story...before you said we had to do it in order to get rid of DJs contract so we would have the room to sign green and dj....but that simply wasnt the case...

    now you say we would be above the cap....not in lux tax land even...just above the cap...and simon wont do that....

    which is pretty much exactly the point....so we gave away assets...for nothing in return. Not because we had to...because we didnt...we gave two players away...for nothing...and now by your words to avoid paying them.

    I was trying to give them the benefit of the doubt and say they didnt want to pay them and maybe they got some cash back out of the deal instead of the normal draft choices....but youre saying no...we just gave them away to avoid paying them....

    which would be a travesty...and an inept front office...unless you consider giving away assets to be prudent...in which case...when can i pick up your car and title to your house???
    Yes we gave them away to avoid paying them! thats exactly what I'm saying! doing that trade allowed us to get Mahinmi while saving money! your whole argument was that we should get cash considerations for the deal, but in doing that trade we SAVED money. We signed better players and our bench is going to be a lot better. We signed a solid bench guy in Green way better than DJ and for a lesser amount. We paid more to a backup point guard that will run our offense more effectively than DC. We picked up Mahinmi which would only improve our bench. The front office made all the right decisions. Our team got better bc of these moves.

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    Default Re: Cash Considerations kept quiet in the Mahinmi/Dallas deal??

    Quote Originally Posted by PacerPenguins View Post
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    Yes we gave them away to avoid paying them! thats exactly what I'm saying! doing that trade allowed us to get Mahinmi while saving money! your whole argument was that we should get cash considerations for the deal, but in doing that trade we SAVED money. We signed better players and our bench is going to be a lot better. We signed a solid bench guy in Green way better than DJ and for a lesser amount. We paid more to a backup point guard that will run our offense more effectively than DC. We picked up Mahinmi which would only improve our bench. The front office made all the right decisions. Our team got better bc of these moves.
    Lol....kudos to the front office for saving money and finding teams to take our players for free....im only glad they didnt save us any more money and choose to give away Paul George, Danny Granger etc to teams that would take them for free...

    Again...i tend to agree with you ...Sadly this was a money saving move. Because there really isnt much reason to believe some sort of draft choices couldnt have been gotten in return. And ill choose to believe the front office did get some cash consideratons in return and didnt just give actual assets away for free...

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    Default Re: Cash Considerations kept quiet in the Mahinmi/Dallas deal??

    Quote Originally Posted by cinotimz View Post
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    Lol....kudos to the front office for saving money and finding teams to take our players for free....im only glad they didnt save us any more money and choose to give away Paul George, Danny Granger etc to teams that would take them for free...

    Again...i tend to agree with you ...Sadly this was a money saving move. Because there really isnt much reason to believe some sort of draft choices couldnt have been gotten in return. And ill choose to believe the front office did get some cash consideratons in return and didnt just give actual assets away for free...

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    Default Re: Cash Considerations kept quiet in the Mahinmi/Dallas deal??

    Quote Originally Posted by cinotimz View Post
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    Lol....kudos to the front office for saving money and finding teams to take our players for free....im only glad they didnt save us any more money and choose to give away Paul George, Danny Granger etc to teams that would take them for free...

    Again...i tend to agree with you ...Sadly this was a money saving move. Because there really isnt much reason to believe some sort of draft choices couldnt have been gotten in return. And ill choose to believe the front office did get some cash consideratons in return and didnt just give actual assets away for free...
    This may not be the worst thread of the year but it certainly the silliest......

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    Default Re: Cash Considerations kept quiet in the Mahinmi/Dallas deal??

    Quote Originally Posted by cinotimz View Post
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    Will you lost sigh of the forest for the trees...and missed the whole point...
    No, I got your point, I just didn't address that part of your post. The point you are talking about is pure speculation, and even if true I didn't care if they got some cash back. Plus I don't agree with your conclusion that they gave away 2 players for nothing. To me that's so obviously not true that in wasn't worth debating. Of course I knew you were . . . can't think of the word I want . . .let's just say you were overstating the case for effect.

    One point for example, what did a lot of guys on this forum complain about last season? They complained that Hibbert was to slow to go out as far on the floor as he sometimes had to.

    Knowing that, and that Hibbert might not be coming back, Bird did the smart thing and chose a center in the draft.

    However, we needed more, so the new front office did something about it and went out and got another guy that can play center. Both are much quicker than Roy.

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    Default Re: Cash Considerations kept quiet in the Mahinmi/Dallas deal??

    Quote Originally Posted by cinotimz View Post
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    Ummm...do I? Yes...actually I do...We didnt have to get rid of DJs contract or anyone elses to do any of the aforementioned deals. We had the capspace to sign them all. And no, the whole reason for doing sign and trades is typically because the team getting the free agent cant sign them outright. But in this case we couldve. Because we had the capspace. Its not a hard concept.
    We HAD the cap space. Are we under the cap now? No!

    The front office knew we were going to need MORE cap space, thus the REASON they did things the way they did.

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    Default Re: Cash Considerations kept quiet in the Mahinmi/Dallas deal??

    Quote Originally Posted by PacerPenguins View Post
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    Yes we gave them away to avoid paying them! thats exactly what I'm saying! doing that trade allowed us to get Mahinmi while saving money! your whole argument was that we should get cash considerations for the deal, but in doing that trade we SAVED money. We signed better players and our bench is going to be a lot better. We signed a solid bench guy in Green way better than DJ and for a lesser amount. We paid more to a backup point guard that will run our offense more effectively than DC. We picked up Mahinmi which would only improve our bench. The front office made all the right decisions. Our team got better bc of these moves.
    This is simple isn't it! It boils down to this:
    DC & DJ for Mahinmi, Green, & Augustine
    These moves have to be looked at in the whole rather than the parts. Together they saved the Pacers money and strengthened the bench. This is not an inept Front Office, this is an very savy Front Office working with the problems of a small market franchise.

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    Default Re: Cash Considerations kept quiet in the Mahinmi/Dallas deal??

    Quote Originally Posted by Will Galen View Post
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    We HAD the cap space. Are we under the cap now? No!

    The front office knew we were going to need MORE cap space, thus the REASON they did things the way they did.
    The dude just keeps ignoring the massive raises Hill and Hibbert got.

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    Default Re: Cash Considerations kept quiet in the Mahinmi/Dallas deal??

    Quote Originally Posted by OlBlu View Post
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    This may not be the worst thread of the year but it certainly the silliest......
    Wait, have you been here the past 2 weeks?

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