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Thread: Realistic Best+Worst Case Scenarios for New Players

  1. #1
    Can see thru wooden doors dal9's Avatar
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    Default Realistic Best+Worst Case Scenarios for New Players

    I think getting augustin, green and mahini for jones, dc, and lou is close to a wash. it could be a net plus (if we are lucky or the FO really know what they are doing) or a net minus.

    What do you all see as the best and worst case scenarios for the new players? Be realistic, so nothing like Mahini blows out his knee in the first game of preseason, Green chops off two more fingers, and Augustin pulls a Plaxico.

    Mine:

    BEST CASE:

    augustin: has all the positives of DC, but a better passer and less of a "ball-hog."

    green: does on offense what hid did with NJ last year. Is able to step up defense, so that there is little drop-off on D when PG/DG go to the bench. Primary backup at both 2 and 3. Overall, production comes close to Paul George of last year.

    mahini: Plays the primary backup at both 5 and the 4. Allows Hans to play at the 4 only a few minutes a game, more only if he happens to get hot on that day. Basically becomes Antonio Davis.



    WORST CASE:

    augustin: assist numbers last year were because of system. no better at moving the ball in our system than DC/GH. Shoots worse than DC. Cannot step up D in playoffs like DC did, because of physical shortcomings. Bad TJ Ford flashbacks.

    green: NJ performance was flash in the pan, mainly because of overuse on bad team. Ball-stopper on O, streaky shooting. Ultimately does not give much more than D Jones on offense, defense is significantly worse.

    mahini: Slightly stronger Solomon Jones.

  2. #2
    Long time fan diamonddave00's Avatar
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    Default Re: Realistic Best+Worst Case Scenarios for New Players

    Best Augustin provides steady point guard play - averaging 8-10 ppg and 4-5 apg off the bench in other words scores about the same but hands out more assist that Hill did in the back up role last season

    Green provides instant offense off the bench , allows Vogel to sit Granger on nights Danny is not into the game. At least gives a workman like effort on defense. Shows that the skills that had him thought to be a future NBA star out of high school are there and the so called experts were not wrong. Same applies to him replacing Paul George on night Paul struggles. Averages 10-12 a night off the bench.

    Mahinmi - gives the Pacers a big body who likes to bang- who's ability to rebound improves. When he replaces Hibbert , the drop off is minimal and fans don't cringe when he enters the game. Shows the ability to hit open jumpers which he did in Dallas.



    Worst

    Augustin in a 1 year showcase becomes a me first pg and forces shots trying to build stats.

    Green becomes a stat player and doesn't even make a half hearted effort on defense.

    Mahinimi becomes Amundson picks up 3 fouls in 4 minutes and can't hold his own in the post on defense far too often.


    Realisticly I think in all 3 cases the best scenerio is most likely. Augustin will want to show he is a team player and an effective team to earn a multi-year contract either with the Pacers or elsewhere.

    Gerald Green saw what life away from the NBA is like I don't see him not putting forth effort to rebuild his image to both NBA personel and fans. He will be a solid player.

    Ian Mahinmi will be frustrating but overall will provide what we need as a back up center. Positive minutes off the bench.

  3. #3
    Flipped Off The Refs Larry Staverman's Avatar
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    Default Re: Realistic Best+Worst Case Scenarios for New Players

    I am not sure about best case and worst case but they definitely improve the Pacers in one area where we had a glaring need.

    Speed and Athleticism.

    DJ for Collison may be a wash but Green and Mahinmi definitely upgrade the team in speed and atheleticism.

    Add in Plumlee and our front line goes from a bunch of plodders to more speed and athleticism.

    Did I mention we needed more speed and athleticism.

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    The Last Great Pacer BlueNGold's Avatar
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    Default Re: Realistic Best+Worst Case Scenarios for New Players

    Best case for Green is that we want him, rather than Paul George on the floor. That's really possible, although the hope is that Paul makes a big jump. Worst case, Green and Lance head out the 8 second saloon and we relive the "good old days".

    Best case for Augustin is that he starts and it becomes clear the offense runs better with him on the floor. I think that could happen. Worst case, he is clearly less effective than Collison and he fights for a spot on the bench with Lance.

    Best case for Ian is that he becomes a solid rotation guy with West and Hibbert where he becomes a glue guy, puts up 10ppg and holds his own defensively. Worst case, he is Solomon Jones and we wish we still had Josh McRoberts or Lou.

    Best case for Plumlee is that he becomes a solid rotation guy with West and Hibbert too...with similar numbers. Worst case, he's John Edwards.

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    George Hill Apologist mattie's Avatar
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    Default Re: Realistic Best+Worst Case Scenarios for New Players

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
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    Best case for Green is that we want him, rather than Paul George on the floor. That's really possible, although the hope is that Paul makes a big jump. Worst case, Green and Lance head out the 8 second saloon and we relive the "good old days".
    I'm hoping Green really excels off the bench and if he does, than we see a lot of Hill-Green-George-Granger-Hibbert on the court.
    Find me on the internets @mattiecolin

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    Default Re: Realistic Best+Worst Case Scenarios for New Players

    BEST CASE:

    augustin:Is playing for a bigger contract and a starting roll and he become the assist man we need.

    green: Takes advantage of his opportunity here and really plays hard nose defense and makes the most of his offensive chances. He is a first rate backup and if he shows a whole lot, he makes Danny Granger tradeable for another starter.

    mahini: He gets an opportunity to show that he is a first class backup and makes it easier to get Hibbert his rest.



    WORST CASE:

    augustin: I have been talking to some Bobcats fans and they say if we think he is an assist first kind of PG, we will not be happy. If he starts putting up bad shots to try and win that new contract, this might not be good.

    green: I think he will be solid backup, bigger and stronger than Dahntay and a much better shooter. The worst case would be for him to not defend or use all of his energy when he gets in the game.

    mahini: He slides and can't score, rebound or defend.

    I like these picks. Our bench is much improved and we are longer and more athletic.......

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    Default Re: Realistic Best+Worst Case Scenarios for New Players

    Quote Originally Posted by mattie View Post
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    I'm hoping Green really excels off the bench and if he does, than we see a lot of Hill-Green-George-Granger-Hibbert on the court.
    I hope not. I have no desire to see any of those players at PF.......

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    It is ka Thankee sai Major Cold's Avatar
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    Default Re: Realistic Best+Worst Case Scenarios for New Players

    Quote Originally Posted by OlBlu View Post
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    I hope not. I have no desire to see any of those players at PF.......
    Why not Danny?

  11. #9

    Default Re: Realistic Best+Worst Case Scenarios for New Players

    Best
    D.J. Augustin- beats out George Hill for starting job and earns long term deal the Pacers, stat averages 14.5 ppg 5.6 apg
    Gerald Green- becomes a huge fan favorite with all of the spectacular dunks and turns Indy into Lob city 2.0 between him and Paul George, Becomes a much better scorer and defender off the bench than Leandro Barbosa, stat averages 13.3 ppg 4.2 rpg
    Ian Mahinmi- Becomes a solid backup improves his rebounding abilities and uses his athleticism to become a good shot blocker, and consistently hits the mid range jumper, stat averages 7.8 ppg 5.6 rpg

    worst
    D.J. Augustin- shoots too much and bad distributor stats- 9.6 ppg 3 TO pg, and 2.9 aog
    Gerald Green- looked good playing on bad team in NJ, can't shoot or defend can only dunk- 8.9 ppg 39% fg
    Ian Mahinmi- Solomon Jones..........

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    Default Re: Realistic Best+Worst Case Scenarios for New Players

    Quote Originally Posted by Major Cold View Post
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    Why not Danny?
    He can't rebound and he can't attack the rim. He is a spot up shooter and that is all that he is. He also cannot defend a PF. He can't defend a SF either but him on a PF is really bad news.....

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    Wasting Light Hicks's Avatar
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    Default Re: Realistic Best+Worst Case Scenarios for New Players

    According to the experts, best case scenario after these latest moves is we're failures because we'll lose to Miami, worst case scenario is we're failures because we'll miss the playoffs or maybe lose in the first round if we're lucky.

    Basically, the Pacers are always failures somehow or another. Just ask. The experts will tell you.

    Word is the first 10,000 fans to the home opener will be given a free WTHR razor blade so Pacer fans can slit their wrists at earliest convenience.

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    George Hill Apologist mattie's Avatar
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    Default Re: Realistic Best+Worst Case Scenarios for New Players

    If anyone is curious were this is coming from just read the timeline from yesterday which should explain things for you:

    https://twitter.com/HicksPD

    =)

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks View Post
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    According to the experts, best case scenario is we're failures because we'll lose to Miami, worst case scenario is we're failures because we'll miss the playoffs or maybe lose in the first round if we're lucky.

    Basically, the Pacers are always failures somehow or another. Just ask. The experts will tell you.

    Word is the first 10,000 fans to the home opener will be given a free WTHR razor blade so Pacer fans can slit their wrists at earliest convenience.
    Find me on the internets @mattiecolin

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    Default Re: Realistic Best+Worst Case Scenarios for New Players

    Quote Originally Posted by OlBlu View Post
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    BEST CASE:

    augustin:Is playing for a bigger contract and a starting roll and he become the assist man we need.

    green: Takes advantage of his opportunity here and really plays hard nose defense and makes the most of his offensive chances. He is a first rate backup and if he shows a whole lot, he makes Danny Granger tradeable for another starter.

    mahini: He gets an opportunity to show that he is a first class backup and makes it easier to get Hibbert his rest.



    WORST CASE:

    augustin: I have been talking to some Bobcats fans and they say if we think he is an assist first kind of PG, we will not be happy. If he starts putting up bad shots to try and win that new contract, this might not be good.

    green: I think he will be solid backup, bigger and stronger than Dahntay and a much better shooter. The worst case would be for him to not defend or use all of his energy when he gets in the game.

    mahini: He slides and can't score, rebound or defend.

    I like these picks. Our bench is much improved and we are longer and more athletic.......
    I would say pretty onpoint....except the part about green being stronger than d. jones. He is definitelly longer. But Im not so sure about stronger. D. Jones was pretty adept at using his strength and made him a good defender. Green will need to rely more on length and athleticism because in my opinion hes more slight than strong.

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    Administrator Peck's Avatar
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    Default Re: Realistic Best+Worst Case Scenarios for New Players

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks View Post
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    According to the experts, best case scenario after these latest moves is we're failures because we'll lose to Miami, worst case scenario is we're failures because we'll miss the playoffs or maybe lose in the first round if we're lucky.

    Basically, the Pacers are always failures somehow or another. Just ask. The experts will tell you.

    Word is the first 10,000 fans to the home opener will be given a free WTHR razor blade so Pacer fans can slit their wrists at earliest convenience.
    Conversely according to other experts no matter what the Pacers do it was the exact right thing no matter what. Failing to make the playoffs next year would be just part of the master plan to get back to a higher level and even if they don’t then that’s ok because they are a small market team and nobody can expect real NBA players to want to play here.

    Basically, the Pacers are always winners somehow or another. The experts will tell you.

    Word on the street is that if there aren’t 18,000 plus screaming fans in the stands every night it’s the fans fault.


    Basketball isn't played with computers, spreadsheets, and simulations. ChicagoJ 4/21/13

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    Default Re: Realistic Best+Worst Case Scenarios for New Players

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks View Post
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    Word is the first 10,000 fans to the home opener will be given a free WTHR razor blade so Pacer fans can slit their wrists at earliest convenience.

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    Default Re: Realistic Best+Worst Case Scenarios for New Players

    part of me hopes that Augustin won't play well enough to supplant GH as the starter, because of all that money we just payed him.

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    It is ka Thankee sai Major Cold's Avatar
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    Default Re: Realistic Best+Worst Case Scenarios for New Players

    You guys are ridiculous with the extremism. I can't believe that you actually think that if we miss the playoffs it would be some greater success.

    And Hicks I understand the frustration. But just because some disagree, doesn't mean that everything done or will be done is a failure in their eyes.

    But like you I do not like the tone in which they disagree.

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    It is ka Thankee sai Major Cold's Avatar
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    Default Re: Realistic Best+Worst Case Scenarios for New Players

    Quote Originally Posted by OlBlu View Post
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    He can't rebound and he can't attack the rim. He is a spot up shooter and that is all that he is. He also cannot defend a PF. He can't defend a SF either but him on a PF is really bad news.....
    With Hibbert and Paul we have rebounding to contend with smaller lineups. At the PF position we wouldn't need him to attack the rim. He can defend smaller PFs, better than West even. And as a Pf on offense, his spot shooting will be vital.

    Granger at PF with Troy Murphy was murder. Granger at PF, at times, with Hibbert at center is smart. I am not saying permanently move him there. Be we beat the Knicks with Danny at PF late last season. It can work, but should not be a default. like it was under JOB.

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    Wasting Light Hicks's Avatar
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    Default Re: Realistic Best+Worst Case Scenarios for New Players

    Quote Originally Posted by Peck View Post
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    Conversely according to other experts no matter what the Pacers do it was the exact right thing no matter what. Failing to make the playoffs next year would be just part of the master plan to get back to a higher level and even if they don’t then that’s ok because they are a small market team and nobody can expect real NBA players to want to play here.

    Basically, the Pacers are always winners somehow or another. The experts will tell you.

    Word on the street is that if there aren’t 18,000 plus screaming fans in the stands every night it’s the fans fault.
    I don't think either of us had the other one in mind when they wrote these two posts.

    Certainly not in my case.

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    Default Re: Realistic Best+Worst Case Scenarios for New Players

    Quote Originally Posted by Major Cold View Post
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    With Hibbert and Paul we have rebounding to contend with smaller lineups. At the PF position we wouldn't need him to attack the rim. He can defend smaller PFs, better than West even. And as a Pf on offense, his spot shooting will be vital.

    Granger at PF with Troy Murphy was murder. Granger at PF, at times, with Hibbert at center is smart. I am not saying permanently move him there. Be we beat the Knicks with Danny at PF late last season. It can work, but should not be a default. like it was under JOB.
    Well, I disagree with you but you have a much higher opinion of Granger than I do. I don't think he can guard anyone......

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    yawn cgg's Avatar
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    Default Re: Realistic Best+Worst Case Scenarios for New Players

    Quote Originally Posted by Major Cold View Post
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    With Hibbert and Paul we have rebounding to contend with smaller lineups. At the PF position we wouldn't need him to attack the rim. He can defend smaller PFs, better than West even. And as a Pf on offense, his spot shooting will be vital.

    Granger at PF with Troy Murphy was murder. Granger at PF, at times, with Hibbert at center is smart. I am not saying permanently move him there. Be we beat the Knicks with Danny at PF late last season. It can work, but should not be a default. like it was under JOB.
    Don't even reply to that. Anyone who says that Granger can't guard a SF or a PF can't be serious and is just trying to provoke people. Plenty of what he says is just unpopular opinions but there is nothing in the world that backs up the statements you're replying to and is just bashing Granger and completely untrue.

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    Default Re: Realistic Best+Worst Case Scenarios for New Players

    Worst case Augustin/Green/Mahinmi are the equivalent of Collison/Barbosa/Admundson.

    Best case Augustin becomes the starter (not far fetched at all), Green and Hill provide the scoring punch we needed off the bench last year, and Mahinmi is a legit 3rd big.

  31. #23
    Can see thru wooden doors dal9's Avatar
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    Default Re: Realistic Best+Worst Case Scenarios for New Players

    Quote Originally Posted by diamonddave00 View Post
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    Best Augustin provides steady point guard play - averaging 8-10 ppg and 4-5 apg off the bench in other words scores about the same but hands out more assist that Hill did in the back up role last season

    Green provides instant offense off the bench , allows Vogel to sit Granger on nights Danny is not into the game. At least gives a workman like effort on defense. Shows that the skills that had him thought to be a future NBA star out of high school are there and the so called experts were not wrong. Same applies to him replacing Paul George on night Paul struggles. Averages 10-12 a night off the bench.

    Mahinmi - gives the Pacers a big body who likes to bang- who's ability to rebound improves. When he replaces Hibbert , the drop off is minimal and fans don't cringe when he enters the game. Shows the ability to hit open jumpers which he did in Dallas.



    Worst

    Augustin in a 1 year showcase becomes a me first pg and forces shots trying to build stats.

    Green becomes a stat player and doesn't even make a half hearted effort on defense.

    Mahinimi becomes Amundson picks up 3 fouls in 4 minutes and can't hold his own in the post on defense far too often.


    Realisticly I think in all 3 cases the best scenerio is most likely. Augustin will want to show he is a team player and an effective team to earn a multi-year contract either with the Pacers or elsewhere.

    Gerald Green saw what life away from the NBA is like I don't see him not putting forth effort to rebuild his image to both NBA personel and fans. He will be a solid player.

    Ian Mahinmi will be frustrating but overall will provide what we need as a back up center. Positive minutes off the bench.
    good post; i was worried about Augustin playing me-first in a contract year too, but i figure if he managed not to do that in Charlotte last year, he won't do it here either

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    Default Re: Realistic Best+Worst Case Scenarios for New Players

    Quote Originally Posted by cgg View Post
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    Don't even reply to that. Anyone who says that Granger can't guard a SF or a PF can't be serious and is just trying to provoke people. Plenty of what he says is just unpopular opinions but there is nothing in the world that backs up the statements you're replying to and is just bashing Granger and completely untrue.
    I believe you can read just about any analysis of Danny Granger and it will say something about his weak defense. He didn't get to play on the World Championship team because Coach K wouldn't tolerate it. He hasn't changed.....

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    Default Re: Realistic Best+Worst Case Scenarios for New Players

    Best Case

    DJ- Plays starter minutes behin Hill and averages about 15 ppg 6 assists 2 turnovers per game and shoots 40% from the field.

    Green- Makes himself a solid back-up for Danny giving Danny more rest and fresher for the playoffs averaging 12ppg 3 assists and 6 rebounds per game

    Mahini- Plays well enough to give big Roy his needed rest and is able to score while Roy is resting. Maybe in the neighborhood of 7ppg 5 rebounds and 1.5 blocks per game.

    Plumlee- Plays consistently around 10 minutes a game and shows flashes of his athleticism and looks like McBob with a better shot selection and flowing better with the team and playing better defense. I could see him averaging 4ppg 1 block per game 4 rebounds per game.

    Worst Case

    DJ- Shoots too many crappy shots, doesn't distribute the ball well, and gets an attitude when one of the team vets try to put him in check thus becoming a locker room cancer.

    Green- Plays out of control always looking for that posterizing dunk, plays zero defense and makes Danny play most of the game.

    Mahini- Fouls way too much, can't shoot to save his life, plays out of position on defense and does not rebound well.

    Plumlee- SPends most of the season sitting on the sideline in a suit watching others play.

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