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    Default Most of these Pacers fans are unbelievable........

    I truly do not know what is wrong with you Pacer fans....... The Pacers re-sign the fan favorite in Roy Hibbert, and re-sign our starting PG in George Hill, but that is not enough for you. They go out and sign one of the top back up point guards in NBA in D.J. Augustin, but that is not enough. They also go out and sign one of the most athletic and top shooting (39% from 3, 48% from field) wings in Gerald Green, but that is not enough for you. They also get a serviceable back-up for Roy Hibbert in Ian Mahinmi. Yet all of these moves are not enough? Eric Gordon and Roy Hibbert were both not coming here so they chose Hibbert, which is not a bad choice given Gordon's injury plagued career. Deron Williams and Steve Nash were not coming here when they had teams like the Lakers and Dallas and Brooklyn were after them, and Elton Brand?? Louis Scola?? Sorry to break it to you guys but the Pacers do not have unlimited cap space, they are not just gonna go out and break the bank open on one off-season. The Pacers starting 5 were dominant in the playoffs, the bench was the problem, OJ Mayo wanted too much money, OJ is not worth breaking the bank open for, same goes for Courntey Lee, who does not even want to come here he wants to go to Boston. I personally like the moves and when the Pacers make the ECF with this line up i hope you guys stop being so dramatic when we don't get every FA....

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    RING THE BELL! Sandman21's Avatar
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    Default Re: Most of these Pacers fans are unbelievable........

    Its a cross mix of the drought and not getting Gordon. Thats caused a lot of peeps to lose their somewhat already tenuous grips on reality.
    "Nobody wants to play against Tyler Hansbrough NO BODY!" ~ Frank Vogel

    "And David put his hand in the bag and took out a stone and slung it. And it struck the Philistine on the head and he fell to the ground. Amen. "
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    Default Re: Most of these Pacers fans are unbelievable........

    What do you mean, you guys?
    "I've got an idea--an idea so smart that my head would explode if I even began to know what I'm talking about." - Peter Griffin

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    Default Re: Most of these Pacers fans are unbelievable........

    Quote Originally Posted by DGPR View Post
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    What do you mean, you guys?

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    RING THE BELL! Sandman21's Avatar
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    Default Re: Most of these Pacers fans are unbelievable........

    Quote Originally Posted by ilive4sports View Post
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    "Nobody wants to play against Tyler Hansbrough NO BODY!" ~ Frank Vogel

    "And David put his hand in the bag and took out a stone and slung it. And it struck the Philistine on the head and he fell to the ground. Amen. "
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    Default Re: Most of these Pacers fans are unbelievable........

    Quote Originally Posted by DGPR View Post
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    What do you mean, you guys?
    He didn't want to include the ladies in his comments.

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    Default Re: Most of these Pacers fans are unbelievable........

    I don't know why this is such a surprise. I mean the team was 42-24 and we lost some guys that were pretty popular a lot of guys respected.

    Not saying that these are bad moves, but of course some people are not going to like that.

  13. #8

    Default Re: Most of these Pacers fans are unbelievable........

    If someone judged the Pacers based on this board they would think that we're in the Shabazz Muhammad race. People act like this team is devoid of talent and every move it makes is awful while every move another team makes is brilliant.

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    You can call me Taz cinotimz's Avatar
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    Default Re: Most of these Pacers fans are unbelievable........

    ECF?

    We beat the Dwight Howardless Orlando Magic in the playoffs....thats it. Remember how noone took us seriously throughout the regular season? Even though we had the 5th best record in the league? Well guess what. Last year was the perfect storm. No Dwight Howard for Orlando. No Derrick Rose for Chicago. No Bosh for Miami. And we made it to the second round.

    Saying our starting 5 is dominant...well....we will agree to disagree...its young and definitely good...but its not gonna win any titles. Period. The whole point is, this offseason was a rare opportunity to upgrade the starting 5. And we didnt. Upgrading the bench isnt nearly so hard. But bottom line there are probably easily 5 or 6 better starting 5s in the league that we will never dominate. At least. And the prospects of upgrading now are gonna be a helluva lot harder than they were this offseason, given the fact we arent likely to have any capspace and the flexibility that comes with it anytime soon. So if we are content with being a 4-8 seed who might get lucky and win a first round series from time to time....then we are probably in a good position. But I didnt really think that ws the idea.

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    Default Re: Most of these Pacers fans are unbelievable........

    Quote Originally Posted by cinotimz View Post
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    ECF?

    We beat the Dwight Howardless Orlando Magic in the playoffs....thats it. Remember how noone took us seriously throughout the regular season? Even though we had the 5th best record in the league? Well guess what. Last year was the perfect storm. No Dwight Howard for Orlando. No Derrick Rose for Chicago. No Bosh for Miami. And we made it to the second round.

    Saying our starting 5 is dominant...well....we will agree to disagree...its young and definitely good...but its not gonna win any titles. Period. The whole point is, this offseason was a rare opportunity to upgrade the starting 5. And we didnt. Upgrading the bench isnt nearly so hard. But bottom line there are probably easily 5 or 6 better starting 5s in the league that we will never dominate. At least. And the prospects of upgrading now are gonna be a helluva lot harder than they were this offseason, given the fact we arent likely to have any capspace and the flexibility that comes with it anytime soon. So if we are content with being a 4-8 seed who might get lucky and win a first round series from time to time....then we are probably in a good position. But I didnt really think that ws the idea.
    I cannot quote playoff stats because I can't find them. However, here are the best 5 man lineups from last regular season.

    Not only was the Pacers lineup with Collison the second best (raw +/-) in the league, but they played more often together than any other team by far. When your goal is to win with consistency and familiarity, Vogel is doing the right thing. Eight or nine spots down you have our starting lineup with George Hill, which makes the list despite 1/5th the total time. The +/- per minutes are very good, and although most likely inflated due to Hill's inferior competition for much of it, are not that out of reach.

    In the playoffs, our starters consistently gave us fairly sizable leads, only to watch our bench lose it. I cannot provide you with stats, just what I remember for this.

    Plus/minus stats are flawed, but they do tend to show how well a unit may stack up. Even if you argue it is not better than a LeBron/Wade/Bosh + filler lineup, you cannot argue it is not at least comparable as a group.
    Last edited by aamcguy; 07-13-2012 at 09:57 PM.

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    Default Re: Most of these Pacers fans are unbelievable........

    Quote Originally Posted by cinotimz View Post
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    Saying our starting 5 is dominant...well....we will agree to disagree...
    Look at the +/- from the playoff series in other threads. The starting 5 did dominate. If the bench could have just broken even, we would have beaten the Heat pretty easily. The contrast is between the bench +/- and the starters is pretty jarring and obvious. I usually hate the +/- stat, but man it confirms what I saw pretty clearly.

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    Default Re: Most of these Pacers fans are unbelievable........

    Quote Originally Posted by xBulletproof View Post
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    Look at the +/- from the playoff series in other threads. The starting 5 did dominate. If the bench could have just broken even, we would have beaten the Heat pretty easily. The contrast is between the bench +/- and the starters is pretty jarring and obvious. I usually hate the +/- stat, but man it confirms what I saw pretty clearly.
    This is laughable. We have a better chance to catch with a good bench than with our starters. What game were you watching? I saw LBJ just about beat the Pacers by himself and he played mostly against the starters. There are many much better starting units in the NBA if you include the west. +- is just about the worst form of stat available and the fact that it convinced you that our starting unit was dominate is proof of that. The Pacers do not have ONE dominate player.... They do have five good to OK players......

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    Default Re: Most of these Pacers fans are unbelievable........

    Quote Originally Posted by OlBlu View Post
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    This is laughable. We have a better chance to catch with a good bench than with our starters. What game were you watching? I saw LBJ just about beat the Pacers by himself and he played mostly against the starters. There are many much better starting units in the NBA if you include the west. +- is just about the worst form of stat available and the fact that it convinced you that our starting unit was dominate is proof of that. The Pacers do not have ONE dominate player.... They do have five good to OK players......
    So the fact that the starters were positive, and all the bench players were negative (even as far negative as -70) is just a mere coincidence?

    I was watching the games that actually happened. When the starters were in we would stay with them, or pull ahead. When the bench was in we got murdered. It was pretty repetitive, and obvious.

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    Default Re: Most of these Pacers fans are unbelievable........

    Quote Originally Posted by xBulletproof View Post
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    So the fact that the starters were positive, and all the bench players were negative (even as far negative as -70) is just a mere coincidence?

    I was watching the games that actually happened. When the starters were in we would stay with them, or pull ahead. When the bench was in we got murdered. It was pretty repetitive, and obvious.
    Were you watching when Wade and James were laying 70 or more on the Pacers? Was that all against the second unit? Yes, that -70 number didn't mean anything. If they had the identical team as the starters coming in and playing on the second unit, they still get beat. James and Wade or superstars. They come through in the clutch. They pick up a team and put it on their backs. The Pacers do not have even one player who can do that once in a while......

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    Member BornReady's Avatar
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    Default Re: Most of these Pacers fans are unbelievable........

    Dude we didn't get Deron, EG, Brand, Duncan, Dwight, Mayo, Crawford, Brook, or Wilt Chamberlain. Of course we fail.
    Last edited by BornReady; 07-13-2012 at 09:23 PM.

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    Default Re: Most of these Pacers fans are unbelievable........

    I think that it feels like last year never happened to a lot of fans. The sting of losing for such a long period of time does not go away in a single year. Also, with all the moves it feels like a really big turnover but people are loosing sight of the fact that all the moves involved bench players. Finally, message board fans are always melodramatic. They declare that they will stop following the team every offseason, just to come back in a day or so. If you follow more than one team, you will see that this is the case everywhere.

    In any case, I think that what we have to hope is that Paul George has a real breakout year. Year three should be the year that it all clicks. If not, we are stuck in the middle. No move that could have been made this offseason would have changed this fact.

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    The Last Great Pacer BlueNGold's Avatar
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    Default Re: Most of these Pacers fans are unbelievable........

    This team is already top 4 in the east and the players are almost all going to enter their prime at the same time. If Paul George turns into an all-star calibre player, this team will contend.

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    Default

    You just have to understand the dynamic of PD.

    When we appear inactive many of us (myself certainly included) freak out.

    Also, for many, this offseason would be a complete bust without either Gordon, Nash, or DWill
    Stop quoting people I have on ignore!

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    Default Re: Most of these Pacers fans are unbelievable........

    Augustingrangerhill, what bothers me the most is not the fact that we've completely struck out on free agency, cuz we've done well, overall... We are better for sure. But when we had an opportunity to make a Championship caliber move, we chickened out... Hansbroughs and Brand salaries this year are damned near a wash... You atleast, bid on Brand... If you don't get him, its no problem... But the fact is, we didn't even bid on him... Hansbrough won't be back next year, Cuz we will resign West, and if you are talking one year rentals, give me Brand this year over Tyler... I'm not over-reacting, I'm disappointed... There are atleast 25 teams that would take Tyler off our hands for a future second rounder... It could have been done... We could have atleast tried... We missed an opportunity to have a stellar off-season... We now have just an improved...

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    Default Re: Most of these Pacers fans are unbelievable........

    Quote Originally Posted by *astrisk* View Post
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    Augustingrangerhill, what bothers me the most is not the fact that we've completely struck out on free agency, cuz we've done well, overall... We are better for sure. But when we had an opportunity to make a Championship caliber move, we chickened out... Hansbroughs and Brand salaries this year are damned near a wash... You atleast, bid on Brand... If you don't get him, its no problem... But the fact is, we didn't even bid on him... Hansbrough won't be back next year, Cuz we will resign West, and if you are talking one year rentals, give me Brand this year over Tyler... I'm not over-reacting, I'm disappointed... There are atleast 25 teams that would take Tyler off our hands for a future second rounder... It could have been done... We could have atleast tried... We missed an opportunity to have a stellar off-season... We now have just an improved...
    Do you know that for a fact? Just because you haven't read it somewhere doesn't mean it didn't happen.

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    Default Re: Most of these Pacers fans are unbelievable........

    Quote Originally Posted by Pacertron View Post
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    Do you know that for a fact? Just because you haven't read it somewhere doesn't mean it didn't happen.
    Yes. We were not under the cap when the bidding ended, thus it would have been completely impossible for us to have made a valid bid.
    The poster "pacertom" since this forum began (and before!). I changed my name here to "Slick Pinkham" in honor of the imaginary player That Bobby "Slick" Leonard picked late in the 1971 ABA draft (true story!)

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    Pacers 4 Life.31 and only Pacers4Life's Avatar
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    Default Re: Most of these Pacers fans are unbelievable........

    That's big talk for someone with a players name in his name that we A. Didn't have before 24 hrs ago. And B. In all likelihood won't have next year. Earn your keep you unbelievably antsy Internet guy.

    And I'm out.

    Edit: imagine a world where you can do anything you please. Pretty awesome am I right? Now imagine you're walking down the street because my lord the mall is crowded and this parking lot is so big.. BAM, roundhouse kick to the face. Why did that happen to you? Because Im like David West, and I don't give 2 pukes about you or your family.

    If we all just ran amok this place would become nothing ,more than a place that savages gathered. I stay out of most things but this really got me.

    The Pacer train is a one way ticket and there are no stops. Hop off at your own risk.
    Last edited by Pacers4Life; 07-13-2012 at 10:39 PM.
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    Default Re: Most of these Pacers fans are unbelievable........

    Quote Originally Posted by Pacers4Life View Post
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    That's big talk for someone with a players name in his name that we A. Didn't have before 24 hrs ago. And B. In all likelihood won't have next year. Earn your keep you unbelievably antsy Internet guy.

    And I'm out.
    Just because he only has 2 posts doesn't mean his opinion is any worse than yours. I happen to agree with his opinion, and the fact that our offseason moves are generating excitement from more casual fans should be cause for celebration, not degradation.

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    Default Re: Most of these Pacers fans are unbelievable........

    Quote Originally Posted by aamcguy View Post
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    Just because he only has 2 posts doesn't mean his opinion is any worse than yours. I happen to agree with his opinion, and the fact that our offseason moves are generating excitement from more casual fans should be cause for celebration, not degradation.

    It's not that he has two posts that's the problem. It's that he signed up just to call out other fans. Wtf is that???


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    thx4tehmRys Danny! daschysta's Avatar
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    Default Re: Most of these Pacers fans are unbelievable........

    Quote Originally Posted by Pacers4Life View Post
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    That's big talk for someone with a players name in his name that we A. Didn't have before 24 hrs ago. And B. In all likelihood won't have next year. Earn your keep you unbelievably antsy Internet guy.

    And I'm out.

    Edit: imagine a world where you can do anything you please. Pretty awesome am I right? Now imagine you're walking down the street because my lord the mall is crowded and this parking lot is so big.. BAM, roundhouse kick to the face. Why did that happen to you? Because Im like David West, and I don't give 2 pukes about you or your family.

    If we all just ran amok this place would become nothing ,more than a place that savages gathered. I stay out of most things but this really got me.

    The Pacer train is a one way ticket and there are no stops. Hop off at your own risk.
    He's right. Many fans here are acting like lunatics and going off of the deep end with little provocation and undulating rapidly, going from loving the team to acting like it should be sold and we suck from day to day. People do need to get a grip.

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