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Thread: Have you seen the plus-minus from the Miami series?

  1. #151
    Feed the big fella. Infinite MAN_force's Avatar
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    Default Re: Have you seen the plus-minus from the Miami series?

    I find all this questioning of plus minus ridiculous, its all about the context. The context is that the plus minus stat CONFIRMS what we all saw with our own eyes. Every game, our starters built a lead in the first quarter that was subsequently pissed away by the bench in the second. From there on they were forced to play catch up. It wasn't just an issue in the Miami series either, it had become a running theme over the course of the season.

    I mean, if people can't see this, I honestly question whether they were watching the games. The bench has been an issue, the people who get paid to do this for a living recognized it and have made an attempt to correct this issue. It was the glaring off season need. This isn't even about plus minus, its about using your eyes.
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  2. #152

    Default Re: Have you seen the plus-minus from the Miami series?

    Someone that believes our bench is our primary problem needs to go to basketball reference, look at the per qtr + / - stats and explain why our starters lost the 3rd and 4th quarters or every game the team lost. From what I can tell, they lost 7 of the 8 second half qtrs in the four losses. The only one they didn't lose was game 5 where they didn't play the 4th, but we're completely and utterly dominated in the 3rd. Not surprisingly they won 3 of the 4 second half qtrs of the games we won. IMO, the starters folded when Miami really turned up the intensity. That's what I saw watching the games and that's what the almighty + / - stats tell me. The Pacers lacked a closer and / or creator that could make something happen when Miami dug in on D. They still do. I don't believe the shuffling of the bench changes that at all. Upgrading the bench is nice, but if the teams starters still lose 7 - 8 second half qtrs next year, I don't give a damn what our bench does - we lose the series.

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  4. #153
    yawn cgg's Avatar
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    Default Re: Have you seen the plus-minus from the Miami series?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kid Minneapolis View Post
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    You're preaching to someone who likes the +/-, bro. It's a great quickie stat that paints a "kinda-sorta" overall picture. But you also have to realize that it's not the complete picture... as with all stats, you take what you can from it, but don't take everything from it. The +/- figures thrown around in this thread do not paint a complete picture. It does not give context whatsoever. All it tells you is that certain players did this when on the court, but doesn't say why. It doesn't say who they were on the court with, doesn't say who was their individual opponent, doesn't say who was their team opponents -- it just says that when they were on the court, this happened. Well..... LeBron James vs Dante Jones will have a much different outcome than James Jones vs Dahntay Jones. That isn't specified in the +/-.

    And that's what most of you are hanging your hat on when you say our bench needed upgraded. Our bench was a typical bench. Against Miami's bench, they likely would've fared well, but we didn't get to see that matchup very often, because Miami's bench often included LeBron James and/or Dwyane Wade. Miami doesn't use much of a bench. They use their starters. 3 of them were arguably pretty non-impactual in this series, and they still won.

    Our bench needed some improvement, which we did... but this team *needed* an offensive facilitator injected into the equation to become a serious contender.... we had some chips.... we had the positioning, we had some impact guys who expressed interest in Indy --- and we landed none of them. We landed backups.

    What we have now to lean on is the hope that our chemistry really gels now with a year under our belt.... or that possibly PG's growth curve continues or exceeds it's current path and he pushes our starting unit to a new level.... or maybe Augustin comes in and surprises us. Who knows... or Lance takes 3 evolutionary steps forwards and becomes that --- dunno. It's all we can really hope for now.... We'll be a really, really good team this year, we'll put the hurt on most of the East this year, but come playoff time, we're built to likely have a similar outcome, because that offense becomes *stagnant* when the defensive heat is applied. And when our offense starts to stagnate, they almost always lose their defensive focus, also... and it just snowballs.
    That's not all we're saying. We're also saying things like the bench needs to be integrated with the starters so that Danny or Paul is always on the floor to guard Lebron or Wade when its them with the bench. We're saying we needed a backup center so that they don't completely abuse the lack of Hibbert's presence. The bench and the way it was used was a MAJOR issue.

  5. #154
    yawn cgg's Avatar
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    Default Re: Have you seen the plus-minus from the Miami series?

    Quote Originally Posted by Infinite MAN_force View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    I mean, if people can't see this, I honestly question whether they were watching the games. The bench has been an issue, the people who get paid to do this for a living recognized it and have made an attempt to correct this issue. It was the glaring off season need. This isn't even about plus minus, its about using your eyes.
    I don't question that anyone didn't watch the games, but when I started rewatching I realized just how much you miss watching a game live and only once.

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