Wow. And, if I had to guess (and based off of five-man-unit stats), I would think West's PM is so low because he was in there with Tyler and Lou on occasion.
Its actually kind of surprising that Granger is still +14. He played just about the same amount of minutes as West and was stuck out there with the bench guys often too. Our starting 5 was damn efficient against the Heat. Glad the numbers show that too. I do think our moves will help this. Mahinmi will be nice to have in the middle over Lou. I like Lou, but he wasn't that great when people were attacking the basket, especially when paired with Tyler.
Last edited by ilive4sports; 07-13-2012 at 05:06 PM.
Two things Vogel needs to work on this offseason
1 - Teach the guys how to run the zone, basically lets copy what Carlisle did against them
2 - Teach the bench not to give up huge runs. Be efficient slow the game down
If we can work on those and if the guys we have who should improve, 6 out of the first 8 off the bench, then we might have a chance against the Heat. I mean historically Wade or Bosh will be hurt next playoffs. We stand a chance.
For those who cant get the links to work:
Pacers +/- vs. Miami
1 Roy Hibbert +26
2 Paul George +24
3 George Hill +20
4 Danny Granger +14
5 David West -2
6 Jeff Pendergraph -5
7 A.J. Price -5
8 Lance Stephenson-13
9 Dahntay Jones -34
10 Louis Amundson -41
11 Tyler Hansbrough -44
12 Darren Collison -65
13 Leandro Barbosa -70
Pacers +/- in the playoffs, with minutes played >12.1
1 George Hill +79
2 David West +76
3 Paul George +61
4 Danny Granger +58
5 Roy Hibbert +51
6 Tyler Hansbrough -27
7 Dahntay Jones -35
8 Louis Amundson -47
9 Leandro Barbosa -52
10 Darren Collison -57
Bold = gone or presumed gone (Barbosa)
The poster "pacertom" since this forum began (and before!). I changed my name here to "Slick Pinkham" in honor of the imaginary player That Bobby "Slick" Leonard picked late in the 1971 ABA draft (true story!).
I'm (maybe) back after being repetedly banned, merely for supporting a different NFL team than do certain forum moderators.
im only guessing but a Brand Ian front court would be maybe the biggest defensive turn around in one off season possible from Hans and Lou(thus the + - of our bench would of really improved. Plus no more West at C). Our bench defense would of been outstanding and Brand can still PnR would of been a great fit with DJ on offense.
2.1 just makes me cringe given away.
The reason why West's +/- was negative in the Miami series is he played bad.
Predictably he produced his usual below average rebounding and defense, but the real issue was when he wasn't able to score. For 3 games out of the series the Heat were able to leave SF Battier on West which completely nullified his offense. There is no way a team should get away with putting Battier on a PF who can supposedly score the ball. The Heat didn't even have to put LBJ on West anymore.
That's just the truth by the way. I know I'm going to get a lot of venom spewed my way for the simple fact that there is a quite a few people on this board who believe West is one of the top three players on the Pacers (no) or he's the MVP of the Pacers. (uh NO.)
West is a great leader who taught this team how to win. But when it comes to making the next step or winning in the playoffs, talent and performance is always paramount. Had we never had West I'm quite certain this team would have struggled to learn how to turn into a winning ball club. However, once they've figured that out, West's most valuable attribute somewhat become meaningless. Because now? The Pacers need a powerforward who can rebound, who can matchup with opposing powerforwards, not be a liability defensively, and help protect the rim. West can't do any of that.
For the record, West is one of my favorite players and always will be. Just being realistic about what he brings to this club right now.
Those stats just punched me in the crotch and setback years of therapy. Not that we didn't know it, but the reminder in hard black and white...well it was just mean of you really.
One last point: We all know this team needs some additional scoring. We can't just look at the starts plus/minus and think a simple upgrade of the bench will do it.
You have to consider that the Pacers played a completely different team than the Celtics or Thunder played. Bosh was out against the Pacers and completely changed that team. Wade/LBJ had to completely learn how to adapt to not having Bosh spread the defense, and that was just one more glaring hole in their starting lineup. It really took them all of the Pacers series and half of the Boston series to figure out how to account for Bosh's loss.
You have to realize that Miami at full strength would have probably done a much better job against Indiana's starters.
Those numbers aligned almost exactly with my thoughts weeks ago. I'm only surprised Roy's numbers aren't higher. I said in another thread that it was a layup drill when Roy sat.
I must say I have enjoyed the last year of sanity. The team is making smart moves. No, we are not blessed with superstar talent, but TPTB are doing the best they can with the assets available.
By the way, thanks for the post. Interesting numbers.
(My first post hi )
Barbosa was a black hole on offense and defense during the series
Anyone who is surprised by this should rewatch the games. That's my only response anymore to anyone who disagrees with the obvious.
Anyways I put the majority of the negatives on the shoulders of Barbosa. If it wasn't for Barbosa all of the starters (except for George obviously) would have had at least another +10 or more. He was the worst player in the series who got significant minutes. It wasn't likely that the bench was going to be in the positive constantly playing against either Wade or LeBron or both, but it wouldn't have been as bad if it wasn't for Barbosa.
This space for rent.
Thanks man! I meant to come back and post that once it became clear the links were buggy, but I've not been online since then.
I've chosen to believe that the lack of working links is what vnzla was referring to in his impressively succinct post. Not sure what's up with bbref's tiny url engine, but like I said they worked when I posted 'em.
EDIT: And actually, they're working for me now. Weird.
This space for rent.