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Thread: Pacers Insider: Fans aren't happy, but Kevin Pritchard, Donnie Walsh are upgrading the roster

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    Default Pacers Insider: Fans aren't happy, but Kevin Pritchard, Donnie Walsh are upgrading the roster

    I like that we made some moves but we are still far from been contenders, I also don't like to hear the free agency approach they had.

    http://www.indystar.com/article/2012...TS04/120712043

    Pacers Insider: Fans aren't happy, but Kevin Pritchard, Donnie Walsh are upgrading the roster

    The plan going into free agency was simple for the Indiana Pacers.

    There would not be any off-the-wall recruiting pitches by team President Donnie Walsh or general manager Kevin Pritchard in the early hours of July 1 to try to woo All-Star point guard Deron Williams. The Pacers would not be one of many actors in the Dwight Howard soap opera with the Orlando Magic. Nor did the Pacers have interest in a one-year rental of Howard.

    It’s been all about fine-tuning the roster since they lost to the Miami Heat in the second round of the playoffs in May.

    First, the Pacers re-signed center Roy Hibbert and point guard George Hill so the starting five remains intact. Now, they are working to upgrade a bench that did more harm than good in the Miami series.

    The Pacers improved their depth Thursday when they agreed to terms with unrestricted free agent guards D.J. Augustin and Gerald Green.

    Augustin, who started 142 games in his four seasons with Charlotte, agreed to a one-year, $3.5 million deal. Green signed a three-year deal for about $10 million.

    Fans don’t like what they’ve seen so far. Some already want Walsh to retire and Pritchard to go somewhere else.

    Have the moves been flashy? Not even close.

    Are the moves good enough to catch Miami in the Eastern Conference? Not as long as the Heat have LeBron James and Dwyane Wade.

    But it’s all about progression for the Pacers.

    They had no choice but to trade point guard Darren Collison.

    Collison told Pritchard during his exit meeting in May that he didn’t have a problem returning as Hill’s backup next season, but he was being politically correct. Collison believes he’s a starter after leading the Pacers to a 34-22 record as the starter.

    But Hill, who spent most of the season shuffling between the guard spots, stepped in when Collison injured his groin and helped lead the Pacers to their longest winning streak in years (seven games). Hill’s play left coach Frank Vogel no choice but to leave him in the starting lineup when Collison returned. The Pacers showed who they have more faith in when they agreed to a five-year, $40 million deal with Hill last week.

    The Pacers viewed Collison as a tradable asset because of his experience as a starter and needed a backup behind Hibbert. No offense to Lou Amundson, who provided energy off the bench last season, but he’s a power forward, not a center.

    Dallas needed a starting point guard when Jason Kidd departed to New York and it failed to land Williams.

    Collison to Dallas, Ian Mahinmi to the Pacers. The Pacers threw in Dahntay Jones because he didn’t fit into their plans on the wing, clearing an additional $1.2 million in salary cap space.

    The Pacers drafted center Miles Plumlee — another move that upset fans — last month, but he’s not ready to fill the role as Hibbert’s backup on a team trying to reach the Eastern Conference finals.

    The Pacers know what they will get out of Mahinmi. He’s athletic and can step out and make midrange jumpers, a perfect complement to the fundamentally sound Hibbert. Mahinmi also can play power forward.

    Green, a former first-round pick, will take the role Leandro Barbosa had as the first wing player off the bench.

    The Pacers better hope they’re getting the humbled Green who spent two years out of the NBA and not the player who didn’t take things seriously while with the Boston Celtics early in his career. If so, the Pacers will get a highflier who can score in multiple ways.

    “(Green’s) scoring off the bench should help us in the future,” Pritchard said in a statement.

    “He’s one of the most dynamic athletes I’ve seen, and how he’s improved will make him a great addition to the Pacers family.”

    There’s still work to be done, but Walsh and Pritchard are doing exactly what they set out to do, even if it doesn’t make some of the fan base happy.

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    Default Re: Pacers Insider: Fans aren't happy, but Kevin Pritchard, Donnie Walsh are upgrading the roster

    Im happy
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    Default Re: Pacers Insider: Fans aren't happy, but Kevin Pritchard, Donnie Walsh are upgrading the roster

    I do think the bench is better.

    I'm just not happy that the Pacers didn't take advantage of their assets as a small market team should be doing.
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    Default Re: Pacers Insider: Fans aren't happy, but Kevin Pritchard, Donnie Walsh are upgrading the roster

    I am good going into the season with our team as it is now. Our front line is going to be much better with Ian, Tyler, and Miles. DJ will be just as good if not better than DC, and Green should be way better than D.Jones. Not to mention we still have the same starting lineup that got us the 5th best record last season

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    Default Re: Pacers Insider: Fans aren't happy, but Kevin Pritchard, Donnie Walsh are upgrading the roster

    I'm pretty happy with the moves. Gerald Green is an improvement over Dahntay Jones and younger. Ian Mahinmi gives the Pacers a legit back up center and has room to grow as a player. D J Augustin is at worse the equal of Darren Collison.

    I'm not excited about the fact that Hibbert and Hill now take up a minimum of 20 mil plus every season for the next 4 years against the cap though.

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    Default Re: Pacers Insider: Fans aren't happy, but Kevin Pritchard, Donnie Walsh are upgrading the roster

    Overall, I am mildly satisfied with how things turned out.....getting 3 decent to solid rotations Players with the limited Capspace that we had is quite an accomplishment. But I will say that signing Mahinmi is the only issue I have with the moves that we've made...only because he duplicates skillsets of Players that we were already stuck with ( Miles ) while putting a Player that MUST get minutes in front of the 1st round Draft pick in the frontcourt rotation ( hence limiting the development of Miles ).

    I'm okay with drafting Miles.....because I am under the assumption that Bird thinks that he's able to contribute on a small scale immediately. There's no point to complain about drafting him...he was supposed to play next to and complement both West and Hibbert as a Foster-like Player. I get that...so I'm okay with drafting him in the first place.

    The only move that I question is the sign and trade of Mahinmi....not because we had to give up an asset like DC to get him. I'm okay with how we got him ( you have to give something to get something ), I only question why we got him in the first place since we already have Miles who was supposed to do the same thing. I know that Miles may not look ready ( despite Bird thinking that he'd appears to be NBA Ready to contribute at some level immediately ), but getting Mahinmi only makes them both redundant since both appear to have similar skillsets while serving the same purpose on the roster. Unless the intention is to eventually play both of them in the 2nd unit to complement West ( and his eventual replacement at the Starting PF spot ) along with Hibbert.....while jettisoning Hansbrough....then the move to acquire Mahinmi makes little sense.

    It's can be said that Miles isn't NBA Ready...and therefore get Mahinmi and slide Miles in slowly into the frontcourt. But if Miles isn't NBA Ready...then why draft him in the first place since he doesn't appear to be ready to contribute nor have a high ceiling?

    I don't even want to get into the suggestion that if we didn't get Mahinmi ( a move that I've been wanting to make for the last season ) that we'd have the Capspace to go after Brand or Scola. To be fair....there was no way that we'd know that Scola was going to get Amnestied....but given that we already had Miles....there was no reason to get Mahinmi in the first place.
    Last edited by CableKC; 07-13-2012 at 01:44 PM.
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    Default Re: Pacers Insider: Fans aren't happy, but Kevin Pritchard, Donnie Walsh are upgrading the roster

    Quote Originally Posted by Sparhawk View Post
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    I do think the bench is better.

    I'm just not happy that the Pacers didn't take advantage of their assets as a small market team should be doing.
    And exactly what should they be doing? Do you know a team out there that can give better value for our assets? How do you know that the FO didn't check every possible deal for their assets? please explain, I would like to be enlightened.
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    Default Re: Pacers Insider: Fans aren't happy, but Kevin Pritchard, Donnie Walsh are upgrading the roster

    Again, more confirmation for anyone that needs it that the Pacers don't pursue big name free agents. For all the talk about FA's refusing to come to Indiana, the fact is they'd have to be seriously asked first.

    Also, how is it that some of us so easily buy into the "Indiana isn't a place FA's will ever come to" line of thinking yet we have no trouble at all of retaining our own FA's when we want to? How do you explain that?
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    Default Re: Pacers Insider: Fans aren't happy, but Kevin Pritchard, Donnie Walsh are upgrading the roster

    Quote Originally Posted by CableKC View Post
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    It's can be said that Miles isn't NBA Ready...and therefore get Mahinmi and slide Miles in slowly into the frontcourt. But if Miles isn't NBA Ready...then why draft him in the first place since he doesn't appear to be ready to contribute nor have a high ceiling?
    I think your expectations for the 26th pick are too high. When was the last time a 26th pick was on a 50 plus win team and was in their regular 8 or 9 man rotation? I figure if he gets into the regular rotation in year 3 and is still in the regular rotation for a year or two. No matter what else, that was a good draft pick at 26th.

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    Default Re: Pacers Insider: Fans aren't happy, but Kevin Pritchard, Donnie Walsh are upgrading the roster

    I don't like what I'm hearing about Green being the top wing off the bench. Lance Stephenson is better
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    Default Re: Pacers Insider: Fans aren't happy, but Kevin Pritchard, Donnie Walsh are upgrading the roster

    I am about half and half with how things have went.

    Thumbs up for Gerald Green and DJ Augustin. Low risk medium reward type guys and contracts to upgrade the bench. Good job.

    I am still in the camp we could have signed Mahinmi out right and got something of value, even if nothing more than a few 2nd rounders, for tw expiring contracts which are cheap and nice pieces.

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    Default Re: Pacers Insider: Fans aren't happy, but Kevin Pritchard, Donnie Walsh are upgrading the roster

    Quote Originally Posted by Pacergeek View Post
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    I don't like what I'm hearing about Green being the top wing off the bench. Lance Stephenson is better
    I respect your opinion, but what exactly are you basing this on? One guy averaged 13 points in 25 minutes of NBA action and the other has had a productive summer league.

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    Default Re: Pacers Insider: Fans aren't happy, but Kevin Pritchard, Donnie Walsh are upgrading the roster

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    I think your expectations for the 26th pick are too high. When was the last time a 26th pick was on a 50 plus win team and was in their regular 8 or 9 man rotation? I figure if he gets into the regular rotation in year 3 and is still in the regular rotation for a year or two. No matter what else, that was a good draft pick at 26th.
    George Hill- Spurs

    To your point though he is the exception, not the rule

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    Default Re: Pacers Insider: Fans aren't happy, but Kevin Pritchard, Donnie Walsh are upgrading the roster

    Quote Originally Posted by Bball View Post
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    Again, more confirmation for anyone that needs it that the Pacers don't pursue big name free agents. For all the talk about FA's refusing to come to Indiana, the fact is they'd have to be seriously asked first.

    Also, how is it that some of us so easily buy into the "Indiana isn't a place FA's will ever come to" line of thinking yet we have no trouble at all of retaining our own FA's when we want to? How do you explain that?
    So if the pacers contact Steve Nash's agent July 1st and the agent stops Pritchard in midsentence and say no Nash will not come to Indy, sorry. And Pacers stop right there, does that mean they don't pursue big name free agents?

    On your second paragraph, it makes perfect sense to me. it is a lot easier to keep someone who is already here then to bring someone new in. Someone who has played a year or two here gets to know the city, the franchise, the facilities and they will have a higher opinion of playing for the pacers after their experience than if they yhave never played here for the pacers. .

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    Default Re: Pacers Insider: Fans aren't happy, but Kevin Pritchard, Donnie Walsh are upgrading the roster

    Wait so do we not have any more cap to bid on brand or scola

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    Default Re: Pacers Insider: Fans aren't happy, but Kevin Pritchard, Donnie Walsh are upgrading the roster

    Quote Originally Posted by joew8302 View Post
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    I respect your opinion, but what exactly are you basing this on? One guy averaged 13 points in 25 minutes of NBA action and the other has had a productive summer league.
    I am blindly loyal to Lance Stpehenson. If he got regular minutes on a bad team, like New Jersey, he would probably average around 15 pts
    David "And One" West

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    Default Re: Pacers Insider: Fans aren't happy, but Kevin Pritchard, Donnie Walsh are upgrading the roster

    Quote Originally Posted by 3 8 thee great t h View Post
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    Wait so do we not have any more cap to bid on brand or scola
    No we don't.

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    Default Re: Pacers Insider: Fans aren't happy, but Kevin Pritchard, Donnie Walsh are upgrading the roster

    Quote Originally Posted by Pacergeek View Post
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    I am blindly loyal to Lance Stpehenson. If he got regular minutes on a bad team, like New Jersey, he would probably average around 15 pts
    Fair enough!

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    Default Re: Pacers Insider: Fans aren't happy, but Kevin Pritchard, Donnie Walsh are upgrading the roster

    I've said it before and I'll say it again. The problem with our bench isn't that we don't have a go to scorer, or someone who can create their own shot. It's the fact we don't have a front court player that can score consistently. Our bench is too predictable. When Vogel switches the entire lineup and puts in new players (a coaching fault he made multiple times against the Heat) they only had to really pay attention to one dimensional players, and DC wasn't able to create the ball movement needed to make that second group score as a cohesive unit. It was almost a miracle to see that second unit score on one on one sessions.

    In order to improve the bench, I thoroughly believe we need a guy down low that can score the ball. Ian can defend and rebound (debatable) but does honestly present a scoring dynamic our bench thoroughly lacks? And I'm not sure if Gerald Green and Augustin can score with the second unit as well as we'd like them too.

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    Default Re: Pacers Insider: Fans aren't happy, but Kevin Pritchard, Donnie Walsh are upgrading the roster

    Some what strange and unexpected moves for sure, but over all, I'd say I'm happy with the changes that have been made. Never thought we had a chance at Deron or Nash.
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    Default Re: Pacers Insider: Fans aren't happy, but Kevin Pritchard, Donnie Walsh are upgrading the roster

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    So if the pacers contact Steve Nash's agent July 1st and the agent stops Pritchard in midsentence and say no Nash will not come to Indy, sorry. And Pacers stop right there, does that mean they don't pursue big name free agents?

    But that's not what this said:

    The plan going into free agency was simple for the Indiana Pacers.

    There would not be any off-the-wall recruiting pitches by team President Donnie Walsh or general manager Kevin Pritchard in the early hours of July 1 to try to woo All-Star point guard Deron Williams. The Pacers would not be one of many actors in the Dwight Howard soap opera with the Orlando Magic. Nor did the Pacers have interest in a one-year rental of Howard.

    It’s been all about fine-tuning the roster since they lost to the Miami Heat in the second round of the playoffs in May.


    On your second paragraph, it makes perfect sense to me. it is a lot easier to keep someone who is already here then to bring someone new in. Someone who has played a year or two here gets to know the city, the franchise, the facilities and they will have a higher opinion of playing for the pacers after their experience than if they yhave never played here for the pacers. .
    And our own FA's keep it their little secret about how much they like it here? In a down year it would be hard to get a big name FA here, but when things are going good we have an ample shot at just about anybody IF we wanted to put the time, effort, and money into the pursuit. We don't. Walsh has admitted as much several times, and now he's back. He'll occasionally play the small market card because it pacifies fans and is a ready made excuse that persists because it's part of the climate he's created. But when not being directly cornered on the subject he'll talk about lack of interest, lack or pursuit, existing contracts and players, etc.. Just as someone has done above... The Pacers had no interest in pursuing big name FA's this off-season.

    And Bird left with an undercurrent of questions about how/if the owner would spend money. Looks like there could be a connection.
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    Default Re: Pacers Insider: Fans aren't happy, but Kevin Pritchard, Donnie Walsh are upgrading the roster

    I love the moves they made, it seems that they are upgrading slowly but surely. I really want to see Paul George emerge this year though. He's my favorite player on the team due to his athleticism, but sometimes it just gets hard to watch him dribble. I want to see him play more like he did in that dallas game last year, though I know you can't expect 30 point nights all the time. I'd be happy to see him average more around 20 though.
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    Default Re: Pacers Insider: Fans aren't happy, but Kevin Pritchard, Donnie Walsh are upgrading the roster

    Bball, why don't you just state it as what you really mean. Pacers are content being contenders they really aren't interested in doing what is necessary to win it all.

    Plus your post I was responding to was in regards to not just this year.

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    Default Re: Pacers Insider: Fans aren't happy, but Kevin Pritchard, Donnie Walsh are upgrading the roster

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    I think your expectations for the 26th pick are too high. When was the last time a 26th pick was on a 50 plus win team and was in their regular 8 or 9 man rotation? I figure if he gets into the regular rotation in year 3 and is still in the regular rotation for a year or two. No matter what else, that was a good draft pick at 26th.
    I get that he's just a 26th pick....but if Miles isn't NBA Ready, I am sure that there are other Players that could have been drafted that could have contributed a lot sooner than later. The Team needs a quick infusion of talent that can come cheap.....drafting a Player like Miles that isn't ready to contribute and may not be ready to do so until the 2nd or 3rd year of his season doesn't make sense.

    Regardless...as I said....I have little problem with drafting Miles because I understand why he was drafted.....my problem was signing a Player that duplicates or mirrors his skillset that will only sit in front of him in the Frontcourt rotation for the next couple of years while limiting his development over these next couple of seasons.
    Last edited by CableKC; 07-13-2012 at 02:19 PM.
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    Default Re: Pacers Insider: Fans aren't happy, but Kevin Pritchard, Donnie Walsh are upgrading the roster

    Quote Originally Posted by joew8302 View Post
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    I am still in the camp we could have signed Mahinmi out right and got something of value, even if nothing more than a few 2nd rounders, for two expiring contracts which are cheap and nice pieces.
    I disagree, because that cap space allows us to pick up an amnestied power forward.

    But if we don't end up bidding on one, then I completely agree. That trade was pointless.
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