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Thread: Pacers Insider: Fans aren't happy, but Kevin Pritchard, Donnie Walsh are upgrading the roster

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    Default Pacers Insider: Fans aren't happy, but Kevin Pritchard, Donnie Walsh are upgrading the roster

    I like that we made some moves but we are still far from been contenders, I also don't like to hear the free agency approach they had.

    http://www.indystar.com/article/2012...TS04/120712043

    Pacers Insider: Fans aren't happy, but Kevin Pritchard, Donnie Walsh are upgrading the roster

    The plan going into free agency was simple for the Indiana Pacers.

    There would not be any off-the-wall recruiting pitches by team President Donnie Walsh or general manager Kevin Pritchard in the early hours of July 1 to try to woo All-Star point guard Deron Williams. The Pacers would not be one of many actors in the Dwight Howard soap opera with the Orlando Magic. Nor did the Pacers have interest in a one-year rental of Howard.

    It’s been all about fine-tuning the roster since they lost to the Miami Heat in the second round of the playoffs in May.

    First, the Pacers re-signed center Roy Hibbert and point guard George Hill so the starting five remains intact. Now, they are working to upgrade a bench that did more harm than good in the Miami series.

    The Pacers improved their depth Thursday when they agreed to terms with unrestricted free agent guards D.J. Augustin and Gerald Green.

    Augustin, who started 142 games in his four seasons with Charlotte, agreed to a one-year, $3.5 million deal. Green signed a three-year deal for about $10 million.

    Fans don’t like what they’ve seen so far. Some already want Walsh to retire and Pritchard to go somewhere else.

    Have the moves been flashy? Not even close.

    Are the moves good enough to catch Miami in the Eastern Conference? Not as long as the Heat have LeBron James and Dwyane Wade.

    But it’s all about progression for the Pacers.

    They had no choice but to trade point guard Darren Collison.

    Collison told Pritchard during his exit meeting in May that he didn’t have a problem returning as Hill’s backup next season, but he was being politically correct. Collison believes he’s a starter after leading the Pacers to a 34-22 record as the starter.

    But Hill, who spent most of the season shuffling between the guard spots, stepped in when Collison injured his groin and helped lead the Pacers to their longest winning streak in years (seven games). Hill’s play left coach Frank Vogel no choice but to leave him in the starting lineup when Collison returned. The Pacers showed who they have more faith in when they agreed to a five-year, $40 million deal with Hill last week.

    The Pacers viewed Collison as a tradable asset because of his experience as a starter and needed a backup behind Hibbert. No offense to Lou Amundson, who provided energy off the bench last season, but he’s a power forward, not a center.

    Dallas needed a starting point guard when Jason Kidd departed to New York and it failed to land Williams.

    Collison to Dallas, Ian Mahinmi to the Pacers. The Pacers threw in Dahntay Jones because he didn’t fit into their plans on the wing, clearing an additional $1.2 million in salary cap space.

    The Pacers drafted center Miles Plumlee — another move that upset fans — last month, but he’s not ready to fill the role as Hibbert’s backup on a team trying to reach the Eastern Conference finals.

    The Pacers know what they will get out of Mahinmi. He’s athletic and can step out and make midrange jumpers, a perfect complement to the fundamentally sound Hibbert. Mahinmi also can play power forward.

    Green, a former first-round pick, will take the role Leandro Barbosa had as the first wing player off the bench.

    The Pacers better hope they’re getting the humbled Green who spent two years out of the NBA and not the player who didn’t take things seriously while with the Boston Celtics early in his career. If so, the Pacers will get a highflier who can score in multiple ways.

    “(Green’s) scoring off the bench should help us in the future,” Pritchard said in a statement.

    “He’s one of the most dynamic athletes I’ve seen, and how he’s improved will make him a great addition to the Pacers family.”

    There’s still work to be done, but Walsh and Pritchard are doing exactly what they set out to do, even if it doesn’t make some of the fan base happy.

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    Default Re: Pacers Insider: Fans aren't happy, but Kevin Pritchard, Donnie Walsh are upgrading the roster

    Im happy
    I Bleed Blue

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    Default Re: Pacers Insider: Fans aren't happy, but Kevin Pritchard, Donnie Walsh are upgrading the roster

    Quote Originally Posted by CreekShow View Post
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    Im happy
    I'm Happy too.

    Something had to be done to bring in some reliable bench help. I think it happened. With Chicago on the mend, I look for us to challenge seriously for the Central title. And I predict that we will continue to be ingored by PMS_ESPN

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    Default Re: Pacers Insider: Fans aren't happy, but Kevin Pritchard, Donnie Walsh are upgrading the roster

    Quote Originally Posted by WhoLovesYaBaby? View Post
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    I'm Happy too.

    Something had to be done to bring in some reliable bench help. I think it happened. With Chicago on the mend, I look for us to challenge seriously for the Central title. And I predict that we will continue to be ingored by PMS_ESPN
    We should absolutely win the Central next year. Chicago can't get by without Rose that long

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    Default Re: Pacers Insider: Fans aren't happy, but Kevin Pritchard, Donnie Walsh are upgrading the roster

    Quote Originally Posted by ilive4sports View Post
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    We should absolutely win the Central next year. Chicago can't get by without Rose that long
    They did it last year without Rose for must of the season...

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    Default Re: Pacers Insider: Fans aren't happy, but Kevin Pritchard, Donnie Walsh are upgrading the roster

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    They did it last year without Rose for must of the season...
    They did it in large part because they're so deep. But now they're battling luxury tax concerns. They've lost Korver, Brewer, Watson, and possibly Asik and only added Hinrich. And it doesn't look like they're going to do much more than add minimum salary guys to their roster to fill it out. Also add in that Deng may need surgery on his wrist after the Olympics. If Thibadeau manages to turn this years team into anything close to the last two years, it will easily be by far his best coaching job.

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    Default Re: Pacers Insider: Fans aren't happy, but Kevin Pritchard, Donnie Walsh are upgrading the roster

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    They did it last year without Rose for must of the season...
    But then they had the Philly meltdown. Chicago got rid of a lot of their bench and I fully expect them to tank for a better pick without Rose.
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    Default Re: Pacers Insider: Fans aren't happy, but Kevin Pritchard, Donnie Walsh are upgrading the roster

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    They did it last year without Rose for must of the season...
    In a shortened season where Rose played 60% of their games. Its quite possible Rose misses the entire season. I'd actually say its likely. ACL tear takes about a year to recover from. If he takes the 9 months like David West did (who wasn't 100% until the end of the season really) that puts us at February 2013, season well under way. Would the Bulls really risk putting him back in so quick in a season that they wont be contenders in? I don't think so.

    And like Cubs231721 said, the Bulls have lost some pieces. I don't see them being able to repeat what they did last year. If we don't win the central, I will be very disappointed.

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    Default Re: Pacers Insider: Fans aren't happy, but Kevin Pritchard, Donnie Walsh are upgrading the roster

    I do think the bench is better.

    I'm just not happy that the Pacers didn't take advantage of their assets as a small market team should be doing.
    Lance + Starting SG = Awesome

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    Default Re: Pacers Insider: Fans aren't happy, but Kevin Pritchard, Donnie Walsh are upgrading the roster

    Quote Originally Posted by Sparhawk View Post
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    I do think the bench is better.

    I'm just not happy that the Pacers didn't take advantage of their assets as a small market team should be doing.
    And exactly what should they be doing? Do you know a team out there that can give better value for our assets? How do you know that the FO didn't check every possible deal for their assets? please explain, I would like to be enlightened.
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    Default Re: Pacers Insider: Fans aren't happy, but Kevin Pritchard, Donnie Walsh are upgrading the roster

    Quote Originally Posted by Pacer Fan View Post
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    And exactly what should they be doing? Do you know a team out there that can give better value for our assets? How do you know that the FO didn't check every possible deal for their assets? please explain, I would like to be enlightened.
    Enlighten you? You've got to be joking. Pacers just gave away DC for nothing. Nothing. And then signed another undersized pg for more money. Ian was an UFA, so we all know the Pacers could have just signed him. Get something for DC than just a straight salary dump. I don't mind giving DJ away, I doubt he has much value, but I know DC has some value. There are teams that could use a good backup/starting point guard. I mean, at least get a future pick, even if it's just a 2nd rounder. Houston, what, got the 18th pick for Budinger. Give me a break.

    Oh brother, and then you throw the "you don't know if they looked for a deal". Of course I don't. I never claimed I did. I don't know any more than you. But c'mon, giving DC away just seems so idiotic.
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    Default Re: Pacers Insider: Fans aren't happy, but Kevin Pritchard, Donnie Walsh are upgrading the roster

    Quote Originally Posted by Sparhawk View Post
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    Enlighten you? You've got to be joking. Pacers just gave away DC for nothing. Nothing. And then signed another undersized pg for more money. Ian was an UFA, so we all know the Pacers could have just signed him. Get something for DC than just a straight salary dump. I don't mind giving DJ away, I doubt he has much value, but I know DC has some value. There are teams that could use a good backup/starting point guard. I mean, at least get a future pick, even if it's just a 2nd rounder. Houston, what, got the 18th pick for Budinger. Give me a break.

    Oh brother, and then you throw the "you don't know if they looked for a deal". Of course I don't. I never claimed I did. I don't know any more than you. But c'mon, giving DC away just seems so idiotic.
    Nothing? It doesn't matter how many times you call Mahinmi "nothing", its simply not true. So back up centers that play solid defense and can score/rebound at a decent rate are nothing now? If we don't make that trade, we dont get Green and Augustin. Simple as that.

    Back up center was a huge weakness on this team all year. Roy only being able to play 30 mpg makes this even more of a glaring need. Miami exploited it badly. Mahinmi will be very valuable to this team.

    Its amazing how DC has gone from hated by everyone to completely overrated on this board. Darren Collison did not show improvement in his time here. He is not much of a point guard as he can't pass and his floor general skills are lacking. This idea that he is a legit starting PG in this league baffles me. If he is a legit starting PG, he wouldn't have lost his job to a combo guard! What value is there in a undersized scoring point guard with below average passing skills? Oh and he sucks at defending too. What the hell are we going to get out of that?!

    And whats even better is we replaced him with a better player! Augustin is a superior point guard.

    And trading Jones away, that wasn't to sweeten the deal with Dallas. That was a salary dump on our part. He doesn't have value. Which in turn lowers the value of DC. The notion that we traded something awesome for nothing is just bull ****. Its like we traded Paul George for Mahinmi instead of DC.

    That trade lead to signing Green and Augustin, which is an upgrade overall. DC/Jones for Augustin/Green/Mahinmi, every GM makes that move.

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    Default Re: Pacers Insider: Fans aren't happy, but Kevin Pritchard, Donnie Walsh are upgrading the roster

    I am good going into the season with our team as it is now. Our front line is going to be much better with Ian, Tyler, and Miles. DJ will be just as good if not better than DC, and Green should be way better than D.Jones. Not to mention we still have the same starting lineup that got us the 5th best record last season

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    Default Re: Pacers Insider: Fans aren't happy, but Kevin Pritchard, Donnie Walsh are upgrading the roster

    I'm pretty happy with the moves. Gerald Green is an improvement over Dahntay Jones and younger. Ian Mahinmi gives the Pacers a legit back up center and has room to grow as a player. D J Augustin is at worse the equal of Darren Collison.

    I'm not excited about the fact that Hibbert and Hill now take up a minimum of 20 mil plus every season for the next 4 years against the cap though.

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    Default Re: Pacers Insider: Fans aren't happy, but Kevin Pritchard, Donnie Walsh are upgrading the roster

    Overall, I am mildly satisfied with how things turned out.....getting 3 decent to solid rotations Players with the limited Capspace that we had is quite an accomplishment. But I will say that signing Mahinmi is the only issue I have with the moves that we've made...only because he duplicates skillsets of Players that we were already stuck with ( Miles ) while putting a Player that MUST get minutes in front of the 1st round Draft pick in the frontcourt rotation ( hence limiting the development of Miles ).

    I'm okay with drafting Miles.....because I am under the assumption that Bird thinks that he's able to contribute on a small scale immediately. There's no point to complain about drafting him...he was supposed to play next to and complement both West and Hibbert as a Foster-like Player. I get that...so I'm okay with drafting him in the first place.

    The only move that I question is the sign and trade of Mahinmi....not because we had to give up an asset like DC to get him. I'm okay with how we got him ( you have to give something to get something ), I only question why we got him in the first place since we already have Miles who was supposed to do the same thing. I know that Miles may not look ready ( despite Bird thinking that he'd appears to be NBA Ready to contribute at some level immediately ), but getting Mahinmi only makes them both redundant since both appear to have similar skillsets while serving the same purpose on the roster. Unless the intention is to eventually play both of them in the 2nd unit to complement West ( and his eventual replacement at the Starting PF spot ) along with Hibbert.....while jettisoning Hansbrough....then the move to acquire Mahinmi makes little sense.

    It's can be said that Miles isn't NBA Ready...and therefore get Mahinmi and slide Miles in slowly into the frontcourt. But if Miles isn't NBA Ready...then why draft him in the first place since he doesn't appear to be ready to contribute nor have a high ceiling?

    I don't even want to get into the suggestion that if we didn't get Mahinmi ( a move that I've been wanting to make for the last season ) that we'd have the Capspace to go after Brand or Scola. To be fair....there was no way that we'd know that Scola was going to get Amnestied....but given that we already had Miles....there was no reason to get Mahinmi in the first place.
    Last edited by CableKC; 07-13-2012 at 01:44 PM.
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    Default Re: Pacers Insider: Fans aren't happy, but Kevin Pritchard, Donnie Walsh are upgrading the roster

    Quote Originally Posted by CableKC View Post
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    It's can be said that Miles isn't NBA Ready...and therefore get Mahinmi and slide Miles in slowly into the frontcourt. But if Miles isn't NBA Ready...then why draft him in the first place since he doesn't appear to be ready to contribute nor have a high ceiling?
    I think your expectations for the 26th pick are too high. When was the last time a 26th pick was on a 50 plus win team and was in their regular 8 or 9 man rotation? I figure if he gets into the regular rotation in year 3 and is still in the regular rotation for a year or two. No matter what else, that was a good draft pick at 26th.

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    Default Re: Pacers Insider: Fans aren't happy, but Kevin Pritchard, Donnie Walsh are upgrading the roster

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    I think your expectations for the 26th pick are too high. When was the last time a 26th pick was on a 50 plus win team and was in their regular 8 or 9 man rotation? I figure if he gets into the regular rotation in year 3 and is still in the regular rotation for a year or two. No matter what else, that was a good draft pick at 26th.
    George Hill- Spurs

    To your point though he is the exception, not the rule

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    Default Re: Pacers Insider: Fans aren't happy, but Kevin Pritchard, Donnie Walsh are upgrading the roster

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    I think your expectations for the 26th pick are too high. When was the last time a 26th pick was on a 50 plus win team and was in their regular 8 or 9 man rotation? I figure if he gets into the regular rotation in year 3 and is still in the regular rotation for a year or two. No matter what else, that was a good draft pick at 26th.
    I get that he's just a 26th pick....but if Miles isn't NBA Ready, I am sure that there are other Players that could have been drafted that could have contributed a lot sooner than later. The Team needs a quick infusion of talent that can come cheap.....drafting a Player like Miles that isn't ready to contribute and may not be ready to do so until the 2nd or 3rd year of his season doesn't make sense.

    Regardless...as I said....I have little problem with drafting Miles because I understand why he was drafted.....my problem was signing a Player that duplicates or mirrors his skillset that will only sit in front of him in the Frontcourt rotation for the next couple of years while limiting his development over these next couple of seasons.
    Last edited by CableKC; 07-13-2012 at 02:19 PM.
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    Default Re: Pacers Insider: Fans aren't happy, but Kevin Pritchard, Donnie Walsh are upgrading the roster

    Quote Originally Posted by CableKC View Post
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    I get that he's just a 26th pick....but if Miles isn't NBA Ready, I am sure that there are other Players that could have been drafted that could have contributed a lot sooner than later. The Team needs a quick infusion of talent that can come cheap.....drafting a Player like Miles that isn't ready to contribute and may not be ready to do so until the 2nd or 3rd year of his season doesn't make sense.
    Lets look at last years draft and see if any players drafted 26 or latter were in the regular rotaiton of a good team.

    26th - Jordan Hamilton
    27th - JuJuan Johnson
    28th - Norris Cole
    29th - Cory Joseph
    30th - Jimmy Butler

    I was going to list the second round picks but no need to, none of them were regular rotation player. So the only player was Norris Cole and he was borderline regular rotation

    2010 - which I believe was consdered a much better draft.
    26th - Quincy Pondexter
    27th - Jordan Crawford
    28th - Greivis Vasquez
    29th - Daniel Orton
    30th - Lazar Hayward

    OK I am still searching. I mean lance Stevenson was taken 40th and he might be a regular contributor this season in his third. Otherwise no one else has to this point.


    it is rare that a 26th pick and lower even lasts in the NBA let alone becaomes a regulr rotation player

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    Default Re: Pacers Insider: Fans aren't happy, but Kevin Pritchard, Donnie Walsh are upgrading the roster

    Again, more confirmation for anyone that needs it that the Pacers don't pursue big name free agents. For all the talk about FA's refusing to come to Indiana, the fact is they'd have to be seriously asked first.

    Also, how is it that some of us so easily buy into the "Indiana isn't a place FA's will ever come to" line of thinking yet we have no trouble at all of retaining our own FA's when we want to? How do you explain that?
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    Default Re: Pacers Insider: Fans aren't happy, but Kevin Pritchard, Donnie Walsh are upgrading the roster

    Quote Originally Posted by Bball View Post
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    Again, more confirmation for anyone that needs it that the Pacers don't pursue big name free agents. For all the talk about FA's refusing to come to Indiana, the fact is they'd have to be seriously asked first.

    Also, how is it that some of us so easily buy into the "Indiana isn't a place FA's will ever come to" line of thinking yet we have no trouble at all of retaining our own FA's when we want to? How do you explain that?
    So if the pacers contact Steve Nash's agent July 1st and the agent stops Pritchard in midsentence and say no Nash will not come to Indy, sorry. And Pacers stop right there, does that mean they don't pursue big name free agents?

    On your second paragraph, it makes perfect sense to me. it is a lot easier to keep someone who is already here then to bring someone new in. Someone who has played a year or two here gets to know the city, the franchise, the facilities and they will have a higher opinion of playing for the pacers after their experience than if they yhave never played here for the pacers. .

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    Default Re: Pacers Insider: Fans aren't happy, but Kevin Pritchard, Donnie Walsh are upgrading the roster

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    So if the pacers contact Steve Nash's agent July 1st and the agent stops Pritchard in midsentence and say no Nash will not come to Indy, sorry. And Pacers stop right there, does that mean they don't pursue big name free agents?

    But that's not what this said:

    The plan going into free agency was simple for the Indiana Pacers.

    There would not be any off-the-wall recruiting pitches by team President Donnie Walsh or general manager Kevin Pritchard in the early hours of July 1 to try to woo All-Star point guard Deron Williams. The Pacers would not be one of many actors in the Dwight Howard soap opera with the Orlando Magic. Nor did the Pacers have interest in a one-year rental of Howard.

    It’s been all about fine-tuning the roster since they lost to the Miami Heat in the second round of the playoffs in May.


    On your second paragraph, it makes perfect sense to me. it is a lot easier to keep someone who is already here then to bring someone new in. Someone who has played a year or two here gets to know the city, the franchise, the facilities and they will have a higher opinion of playing for the pacers after their experience than if they yhave never played here for the pacers. .
    And our own FA's keep it their little secret about how much they like it here? In a down year it would be hard to get a big name FA here, but when things are going good we have an ample shot at just about anybody IF we wanted to put the time, effort, and money into the pursuit. We don't. Walsh has admitted as much several times, and now he's back. He'll occasionally play the small market card because it pacifies fans and is a ready made excuse that persists because it's part of the climate he's created. But when not being directly cornered on the subject he'll talk about lack of interest, lack or pursuit, existing contracts and players, etc.. Just as someone has done above... The Pacers had no interest in pursuing big name FA's this off-season.

    And Bird left with an undercurrent of questions about how/if the owner would spend money. Looks like there could be a connection.
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    Default Re: Pacers Insider: Fans aren't happy, but Kevin Pritchard, Donnie Walsh are upgrading the roster

    We basically wasted our cap, we have nothing left...

    We are basically Hawks 2.0 of the past 5 years, we wont get over the hump unless George morphs into McGrady 2.0 (very doubtful).

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    Default Re: Pacers Insider: Fans aren't happy, but Kevin Pritchard, Donnie Walsh are upgrading the roster

    Like I said I kind of like what we did, I'm just not sure if this team is going to be better, I can't stop thinking of the Green signing and think "Kareem Rush" I understand the people are excited about his potential(I was few years ago) but at this point in his career I don't expect much from him, I like that we replaced DC with Augustin but I don't know how much better he is going to make the second unit and Mahinmi I think he is going to be decent but again he is not a difference maker, he is just a decent big that we can play 10-15 minutes a game.

    At the end of the day we only addressed one weakness(backup point guard that can create) but we ended up leaving 3 open(big man that can rebound and defend/SF that can play D/shoot creator off the bench) and opened another one(SG/SF defense).

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    Default Re: Pacers Insider: Fans aren't happy, but Kevin Pritchard, Donnie Walsh are upgrading the roster

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    At the end of the day we only addressed one weakness(backup point guard that can create) but we ended up leaving 3 open(big man that can rebound and defend/SF that can play D/shoot creator off the bench) and opened another one(SG/SF defense).
    At the end of the day FO addressed:

    Hibbert > Resigned = win
    Hill > Resigned = win
    Amundson > Mahimni = win
    Jones > Green = win
    Collison > Augustin = win

    3 for 3 in the FA Market and was able to retain our 2 RFA's = 5 for 5...I'd call this a very successful week.
    .

    Frank Vogel says "Killer instinct, start strong, build a lead and then step on their throats."

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