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Thread: Either the front office needs to go or the owner needs to sale the team.

  1. #51
    yawn cgg's Avatar
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    Default Re: Either the front office needs to go or the owner needs to sale the team.

    Quote Originally Posted by QuickRelease View Post
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    I honestly think we'll wind up happier with Plumlee than OKC will with PJ3. He is the big man version of Brandon Rush.
    I could live with a big man that's a good defender and efficient low usagage scorer.

  2. #52
    Member pacerjones20's Avatar
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    Default Re: Either the front office needs to go or the owner needs to sale the team.

    That heat series was lost with the 2nd unit. Every time the started left we lost our lead. They would come back and we would be back in it. Our 2nd unit got a lot better and we kept our starters. That sounds great to me. And good point on bobcats not keeping dj because you know jordan knows how to pick players /green
    Long time lurker. Fan since 98. Don't Trade Danny

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  4. #53
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    Default Re: Either the front office needs to go or the owner needs to sale the team.

    How did this thread get so long without someone correcting your title. You Sell not sale a team. Don't feel compelled to respond to anything else, but if you should at least have a decent title for your crappy thread

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  6. #54
    The Nite Owl LA_Confidential's Avatar
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    Default Re: Either the front office needs to go or the owner needs to sale the team.

    1 more thing. All the moves that "I assume" have made our bench better have been done with straight up cap space. We actually saved money by trading for Mahinmi instead of an outright signing. We haven't inked Hill and Roy's deals yet so they don't count against the cap yet. We can go Over the cap to bring them back. We still have our MLE too. We can re-sign Barbosa(bird rights), Mayo or some other scoring 2guard without being taxpayers. Sounds like a win to me.

  7. #55
    yawn cgg's Avatar
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    Default Re: Either the front office needs to go or the owner needs to sale the team.

    How do I ignore a thread? Can't find the option on the new version.

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  9. #56
    Obviously ur not a golfer 5_7_Clash's Avatar
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    Default Re: Either the front office needs to go or the owner needs to sale the team.

    Quote Originally Posted by PacerFreak31 View Post
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    I am not sure who is to blame for all the blunders this off season but one or both of the front office and owner needs to go.

  10. #57
    RING THE BELL! Sandman21's Avatar
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    Default Re: Either the front office needs to go or the owner needs to sale the team.

    Quote Originally Posted by doctor-h View Post
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    Another area 55 clown, say no more.
    Jeezus, I wear a clown mask ONE TIME in Area 55, and I never hear the end of it!
    "Nobody wants to play against Tyler Hansbrough NO BODY!" ~ Frank Vogel

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  12. #58
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    Default Re: Either the front office needs to go or the owner needs to sale the team.

    Then we way overpay for Hill and Hilbert.
    When do the new Hilbert jerseys come out?

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  14. #59
    Administrator Peck's Avatar
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    Default Re: Either the front office needs to go or the owner needs to sale the team.

    The thread title is over the top and perhaps the opinions expressed by the O.P. are wrong but could we all please stop calling people names on here Just because they disagree with you.

    Look I'm not hiding the fact that I'm not really impressed with what has occured in the last 48 hours but I understand this may be the best we could do. But I'm not going to Jump up & down proclaiming victory over what I consider mostly lateral moves until I see the results. Just like you guys are correct to state that nobody should Jump up & down declaring a massive failure on managements part.

    Yes when our bench played in the playoffs they lost the lead but here is the key. Believe me I take no pleasure in saying this because I love the guy but, it was a coaching error IMO.

    There comes a point in time (playoffs) that you stop playing the bench as a unit. You bring in elements of the bench to give your starters a break but most teams don't platoon in/out entire lineups.

    So IMO upgrading the bench is an ok concept, although I am not of the opinion that we truely upgraded but I am willing to say I might be wrong.


    Basketball isn't played with computers, spreadsheets, and simulations. ChicagoJ 4/21/13

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  16. #60
    yawn cgg's Avatar
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    Default Re: Either the front office needs to go or the owner needs to sale the team.

    Seriously though. Is there still a way to ignore threads?

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  18. #61
    Jimmy did what Jimmy did Bball's Avatar
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    Default Re: Either the front office needs to go or the owner needs to sale the team.

    Quote Originally Posted by cgg View Post
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    Seriously though. Is there still a way to ignore threads?
    You can use your mouse to scroll past offending threads and not click on them....
    O'Brien has been fired! Yay! What took so long?

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  20. #62
    Administrator Unclebuck's Avatar
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    Default Re: Either the front office needs to go or the owner needs to sale the team.

    Bottonline on the trades and signings is this. I think if you are extremely excited you are going too far. if you are really upset I think that is too far the other way. We did not give up any player who was a starter or someone who was going to be in our longterm plan. So I don't see how anyone could be really upset with who we are giving up. But then again if you are jumping up and down for joy because of the three new players I think you are geting way too excited.

    So if you take out each extreme I think all other opinions are very defensible. I think overall and taken as a whole these are good moves. They will make the pacers marginally better. That is all you can hope for on these types of moves.

    The much more impactful moves are the re-signing of 40% of our starting unit - Roy and George Hill.
    Last edited by Unclebuck; 07-13-2012 at 01:35 PM.

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  22. #63
    George Hill Apologist mattie's Avatar
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    Default Re: Either the front office needs to go or the owner needs to sale the team.

    It is true. The reason so many of us were upset Indiana didn't at least make an attempt at EJ, (no matter how futile) is because the starting lineup needed a talent upgrade. The second units failure has helped cover up the real problem this team had. They simply need more talent. Vogel screwing up and playing the second unit when he shouldn't obscure that fact.
    Find me on the internets @mattiecolin

  23. #64
    yawn cgg's Avatar
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    Default Re: Either the front office needs to go or the owner needs to sale the team.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bball View Post
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    You can use your mouse to scroll past offending threads and not click on them....
    Yeah but there used to be a way to ignore threads, but now I can't find it. I wanna ignore the sticky threads too so there's less clutter at the top.

  24. #65

    Default Re: Either the front office needs to go or the owner needs to sale the team.

    I'm extremely excited about the changes. Why? Because of the simple fact that our BENCH was our weak point last year. Despite our reputation nationally (and here?) as a 'team that wins with depth', by all statistical (and eyeball) measures our bench was absolutely horrid. Our starting 5 was one of the best in the NBA, but outside of a few outlier games our bench routinely got destroyed. Upgrading our bench to even average is a GIGANTIC move for our team.

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  26. #66

    Default Re: Either the front office needs to go or the owner needs to sale the team.

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    The much more impactful moves are the re-signing of 20% of our starting unit - Roy and George Hill.
    actually 40%. So VERY impactful.

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  28. #67
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    Default Re: Either the front office needs to go or the owner needs to sale the team.

    civility

    1 archaic : training in the humanities
    2 a : civilized conduct; especially : courtesy, politeness b : a polite act or expression



    respect 1. a particular, detail, or point (usually preceded by in ): to differ in some respect.
    2. relation or reference: inquiries with respect to a route.
    deference to a right, privilege, privileged position, or someone or something considered to have certain rights or privileges; proper acceptance or courtesy; acknowledgment: respect for a suspect's right to counsel; to show respect for the flag; respect for the elderly.




    I am not only talking about this thread, but just an attitude here as of late. We are all friends. We are all fellow Pacers fans. Lord knows we should be able to disagree without name calling or belittling each other

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  30. #68
    RING THE BELL! Sandman21's Avatar
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    Default Re: Either the front office needs to go or the owner needs to sale the team.

    Quote Originally Posted by mattie View Post
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    It is true. The reason so many of us were upset Indiana didn't at least make an attempt at EJ, (no matter how futile) is because the starting lineup needed a talent upgrade. The second units failure has helped cover up the real problem this team had. They simply need more talent. Vogel screwing up and playing the second unit when he shouldn't obscure that fact.
    How does everyone know that we DIDN'T make an attempt at Gordon? Just because we were smart enough to not offer him a max doesn't mean we didn't try to get him....
    "Nobody wants to play against Tyler Hansbrough NO BODY!" ~ Frank Vogel

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  32. #69
    You can call me Taz cinotimz's Avatar
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    Default Re: Either the front office needs to go or the owner needs to sale the team.

    While some might not like the style in which the OP presented things, as others have kinda danced around, there are some potentially very valid points. There are a couple of major concerns when all is said and done. One of the major concerns to me is the fact that management is saying our starting 5 is good enought to basically compete for a title. Thats simply isnt true. People like to talk about the Pistons championship team and the facts are simple-and this pains me in ways you cant imagine-but this starting 5 isnt as talented as the Pistons. Even more importantly, with maybe the exception of one Lakers team that ulitmately had injury problems, there were none of the 'superteams' being created back then as they are now. Miami won the title and they have gotten even better. The Lakers have definitely gotten better and may not be done. Anyone discounting the Knicks is simply in denial. Bottome line is our starting 5 needs a major upgrade if we are truly going to contend for a title. While its true we spent alot of money(overpaid) to not go backwards with our starting 5, we effectively did because the contenders for the title almost all got better. Again I believe this is where the stalemate occurred with Bird and Simon, as Im sure Bird feels the starting 5 must be upgraded and still cant help but think he was targeting someone like Gordon. He knows what I know and I think deep down everyone else knows though they may choose to ignore such. This team is never going to contend for a title as currently constructed-not without a major piece being added in one way or another...that alphadog people keep talking about.

    Which then brings us to the moves that were made. Mainly improving the bench. In the end, the bench isnt gonna win the title, but it will help playoff seeding etc over the course of a season. Remember with the shortened season our quantity and not necessarily quality bench did play a role in our regular season success. When Mahinmi was acquired I was very adamant about like him as an addition. And i still like him. Hes going to bring something we definitely needed last year. A defensive presence at the rim outside of Hibbert. And hes just a decent player on both ends. So hes definitely an upgrade. But I also added that the way in which he was acquired certainly pointing towards another move-possibly the addition of the much talked about Mayo. Why? Because we could have very simply signed Mahinmi outright and given up nothing. Period. But we chose instead to do a salary dump. So the main question remains, why did we choose to dump salary? Two expirings on top of that? Its not like it was long term salary. Especially when u look at us going out and immediately acquiring DJ for even more money than we were paying Collison. If the idea was to clear salary to improve the team, then that made alot of sense. If it was to go after Mayo or make a bid on Brand, then wonderful. But if it was just an outright salary dump to simply avoid paying the money....well thats where theres gonna be issues with the fans again and what leads to the whole concept of getting rid of the team that I believed couldve been delivered alot more eloquently than the OP chose to do.

    Look...we got rid of Collison, D. Jones, Amundson and basically replaced them with Dj Aug, Mahinmi, and Green...in the end theres not alot there other than just changes to make changes....might they be marginally better? yes....quite possible....and if that salary dump leads to one more major acquisition then I think that will significantly answer alot of the questions that realistically still do exist. Most notably, why the salary dump? If you wanted Mahinmi, you couldve signed him outright. Collison and DJ are likely a wash either way and its not like the Pacers have much faith in DJ in giving him a 1 year deal...so....maybe you have the potential of Green versus the known quantity of Jones...but...lets not forget Jones is great in the locker room and has significantly contributed to the handling and dvelopment of both Lance and P. George. So saying we are spending alot more money on a roster that ultimately made alot of lateral moves is pretty much accurate, in spite of us wanting to believe otherwise due to the fact we knew we had to get markedly better if we stand any chance to contend.

    Most wont like hearing this, but this roster as it appears now will likely make the playoffs but will probably do well to get out of the first round....noone wants to hear that...but we were really only a Dwight Howard injury from the same happening last year. So....

    Again, if we land Brand, Scola, Mayo or something similar, then all makes sense. But if this is the final product of the plan...well....I have a feeling the sentiments on this board will get fairly negative in the not to distant future once we start playing the games and see where we begin stacking up in the overall scheme of things...

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  34. #70

    Default Re: Either the front office needs to go or the owner needs to sale the team.

    Quote Originally Posted by doctor-h View Post
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    All you homers that don't have a clue about real competitive basketball should lay off someone that has a different opinion than yours. Pacerfreak is right all these moves are lateral moves. We very well could be no better than last year. The Collison trade makes no sense. Even the beat writer for the Mavs was confused by that. They had no interest in resigning this guy. The Bobcats as pitiful as they are had no interest in resigning Augustine. The Green move IMO is worth the risk. Lance is showing what he can do in the summer league. In case anybody is paying attention, he is doing it as a pg with the ball in his hands. That is his strength, that is when his game lights up. Its not when he is standing in a corner like they made him do last year and just take up space. The signing of Augustine tells us that is their plan again this year. So go ahead and waste him and let him leave as soon as his contract is up for a guy who obviously doesn't want to be hear long term and is using us to get a better contract. Stop believing every little misguided rumor about everything and actually take a look at what is going on. The Pacers have no prayer of competing for anything with this kind of nonsense.
    Peck says our moves were lateral moves and gets thanked. I say it and get called names.

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  36. #71
    George Hill Apologist mattie's Avatar
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    Default Re: Either the front office needs to go or the owner needs to sale the team.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sandman21 View Post
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    How does everyone know that we DIDN'T make an attempt at Gordon? Just because we were smart enough to not offer him a max doesn't mean we didn't try to get him....
    Talking to Gordon about taking a below market value contract that he obviously wouldn't excpet and New Orleans would obviously match is not an attempt. An attempt would be offering him a max contract.

    I mean I'm not upset. Happens. At the end of the day Gordon is still a guy who's had a lot of injuries and may never pan out. But was an opportunity to add legit talent that could possibly made this team championship caliber.

    Now we're stuck hoping Roy makes another big improvement (unlikely) and Paul George makes the big jump. It's becoming more and more likely that Paul George will never reach our lofty expectations. (which isn't his fault, probably more of a case of us not being realistic)
    Find me on the internets @mattiecolin

  37. #72

    Default Re: Either the front office needs to go or the owner needs to sale the team.

    I don't care what anyone else says, this team as it is constructed now, gets passed Miami in that last playoff series. Yes, Bosh was hurt, but the bench killed the team time and time again. LeBron and Wade would find it much harder to drive in on Plumlee and Mahinmi than Hans and Lou, and just about anyone can provide better D than Barbosa.

    EDIT: I do not think the transactions make the team "a contender" though, but I do think they're a little better than they were last year.
    Last edited by pezasied182; 07-13-2012 at 04:49 PM.

  38. #73
    Member ilive4sports's Avatar
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    Default Re: Either the front office needs to go or the owner needs to sale the team.

    posts like these are why i am happy fans don't run the team. if you didn't think we improved this team, you're crazy. You're crazy if you think the value of DC/DJ was going to bring something great back. You also underrate Mahinmi and how badly we needed a legit back up C.

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  40. #74
    A happy Roy is a good Roy DaveP63's Avatar
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    Default Re: Either the front office needs to go or the owner needs to sale the team.

    Quote Originally Posted by k_lewis93 View Post
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    Can we just all agree this kid knows nothing and just end the convo? He isn't even worth arguing with bc it's like talking to a freaking wall.
    Put. Him. On. Your. Ignore. List. It makes life much better.
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  42. #75
    Member Reginald's Avatar
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    Default Re: Either the front office needs to go or the owner needs to sale the team.

    Quote Originally Posted by doctor-h View Post
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    Peck says our moves were lateral moves and gets thanked. I say it and get called names.
    You do realize you started your post on lateral moves by calling people clueless homers, right? If you don't like being called names, then practice what you preach.
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