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    Default Either the front office needs to go or the owner needs to sale the team.

    I am not sure who is to blame for all the blunders this off season but one or both of the front office and owner needs to go. We draft a guy the could have been taken with our second round pick. Then we draft a guy with our second round pick that to say has shown nothing is an understatement. Then we way overpay for Hill and Hilbert. Now we trade two players with some trade value for a guy we could have signed as a FA.

    The thing in all of this is that we should have gotten more in all of our dealings with other teams. We should have traded back in the draft and picked up an asset. We should have gotten more for DC and Jones. Our starters and bench will still not beat the Heat in a series. Other teams are getting better and we seem to think that making tweaks to the bench will make us world beaters, is just sickening. For whatever reason we are afraid to win in trades or FA. Not sure if it is the owner or front office but we are going nowhere fast. This is coming from a glass is half full person.

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    Default Re: Either the front office needs to go or the owner needs to sale the team.

    Seriously?
    Last edited by _The_Future_; 07-13-2012 at 10:21 AM.
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    Default Re: Either the front office needs to go or the owner needs to sale the team.

    "Either the front office needs to go or the owner needs to sale the team."

    OR

    The team needs a new fan.

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    Default Re: Either the front office needs to go or the owner needs to sale the team.

    I'll take his spot! I just signed up for PD today. GO PACERS!

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    Default Re: Either the front office needs to go or the owner needs to sale the team.

    Thank you for your opinion.... GO PACERS!!!
    I'm not perfect and neither are you.

    Romans 3:23 For all have sinned,and come short of the glory of God. kjv
    Ephisians 4: 32 And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you. kjv

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    Default Re: Either the front office needs to go or the owner needs to sale the team.

    Not sure what position HiLbert is going to play, but it sucks that we overpaid him. Now Hibbert on the other hand comparing to other contracts for bigs that were handed out *cough* Lopez *cough* Hibbs deal was a discount.

    Overall we kept our starting lineup in tact, which wasn't the issue last year by the way, and added some solid depth to our bench. But I guess since ESPN graded it as a bad trade we loose the offseason.

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    Default Re: Either the front office needs to go or the owner needs to sale the team.

    If you can't handle a small market team putting together cast offs from other teams then you need to go like the Lakers.
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    Default Re: Either the front office needs to go or the owner needs to sale the team.

    Quote Originally Posted by Steagles View Post
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    If you can't handle a small market team putting together cast offs from other teams then you need to go like the Lakers.
    What I am hoping is that the small market teams all wise up. Let the big city teams blow all of their money on the money boys and leave the other, good players for us. I think that you CAN win a title with the second tier players. DET proved that a while back. You don't need a superstar, but you need a whole raft of good players who will play together.

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    Default Re: Either the front office needs to go or the owner needs to sale the team.

    Quote Originally Posted by WhoLovesYaBaby? View Post
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    What I am hoping is that the small market teams all wise up. Let the big city teams blow all of their money on the money boys and leave the other, good players for us. I think that you CAN win a title with the second tier players. DET proved that a while back. You don't need a superstar, but you need a whole raft of good players who will play together.
    I am hoping that no small market teams realize this except for the Pacers, so we get the best 2nd tier talent
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    Default Re: Either the front office needs to go or the owner needs to sale the team.

    Quote Originally Posted by WhoLovesYaBaby? View Post
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    What I am hoping is that the small market teams all wise up. Let the big city teams blow all of their money on the money boys and leave the other, good players for us. I think that you CAN win a title with the second tier players. DET proved that a while back. You don't need a superstar, but you need a whole raft of good players who will play together.
    As a lifetime Yankee fan I can tell you I 100% agree. Best money Yanks spent in my lifetime were building, developing and keeping their own farm talent - Jeter, Rivera, Bernie, Pettite, Posada - and then picking up good deals in FA or trades, like "losing" the Roberto Kelly for Paul O'Neil deal or signing the very old Wade Boggs or the not impressive Scott Brosius.

    When the Yanks went back to nuts on any FA they could find they signed dudes like Clemens, Mussina, ARod, Giambi, or an old school miss like Tartabull. Stat stuffers who aren't clutch, way overpaid, horrible chemistry types. The only high profile guys I can recall them getting and working out are CC, Teixeira and Granderson now and Cone in the 90s.




    Rich teams get overconfident with money and do really stupid stuff. Just ask the Knicks.

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    Default Re: Either the front office needs to go or the owner needs to sale the team.

    Quote Originally Posted by Naptown_Seth View Post
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    As a lifetime Yankee fan I can tell you I 100% agree. Best money Yanks spent in my lifetime were building, developing and keeping their own farm talent - Jeter, Rivera, Bernie, Pettite, Posada - and then picking up good deals in FA or trades, like "losing" the Roberto Kelly for Paul O'Neil deal or signing the very old Wade Boggs or the not impressive Scott Brosius.

    When the Yanks went back to nuts on any FA they could find they signed dudes like Clemens, Mussina, ARod, Giambi, or an old school miss like Tartabull. Stat stuffers who aren't clutch, way overpaid, horrible chemistry types. The only high profile guys I can recall them getting and working out are CC, Teixeira and Granderson now and Cone in the 90s.




    Rich teams get overconfident with money and do really stupid stuff. Just ask the Knicks.
    I'm a lifelong Cubs fan. And I wish they would model the Yanks for just one year!

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    Default Re: Either the front office needs to go or the owner needs to sale the team.

    Quote Originally Posted by WhoLovesYaBaby? View Post
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    I'm a lifelong Cubs fan. And I wish they would model the Yanks for just one year!
    But the thing is, they have had moments of spending that didn't end up working out.

    Just throwing money at problems isn't just a sport business failure either, plenty of companies overlook the value of actually knowing what they're doing before spending. Bottom line, money spent vs wins is not a linear relationship. There are slight trends but often it has as much to do with keeping your own guys. And as a Yanks fan I'll admit that a big benefit the 90's team had was that they could afford to pay to keep their core together. That was smart spending. At the same time Baltimore and LA put together very expensive flops.



    One thing with the Pacers payroll, and I was someone making the case that the Hibby deal was a tough call, is that there should be a benefit to keeping the same core locker room together. If Danny, Roy, Paul, George and West interact well and obviously are the talent leaders, and they are the long term guys there with everyone else being relatively new additions, then you get the CULTURE BENEFIT from your spending. I don't know what the price on that is, but it's definitely worth spending some money on. For this reason I really want them to resign West after this season, barring some disaster.

    The 98 roster was so in tune with each other, and the base culture was so strong that they easily supported the addition of guys like Jalen, Harrington and Bender. That was the primary factor in the whole being greater than the sum. I'd like to think that 2-3 years from now the high level of familiarity among this core will be a huge factor in their quality of play.

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    Default Re: Either the front office needs to go or the owner needs to sale the team.

    Quote Originally Posted by WhoLovesYaBaby? View Post
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    I'm a lifelong Cubs fan. And I wish they would model the Yanks for just one year!
    So am I. I totally disagree with this statement that is the issue with the team. The ownership beefed up the payroll to sell the team and we got a bunch of overrated overpaid guys and that is why we are awful right now. The Cubs needed to rebuild in the worst way im just so happy we finally did.


    You need to spend in free agency(when the time comes for us we are likely 3-4 years from doing that because the talent is so bad) but you also need guys under your control to keep payroll manageable. Almost every team that wins has amazing home grown talent and without home grown guys it is really hard ti win IMO.


    Nothing like a Jim Henry patch job nothing says contender like overspending on the likes of Milton Bradley and trading away the farm and go balls out to try to win. That thinking set us back 5 years to keep sustained success you cant do that.

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    Default Re: Either the front office needs to go or the owner needs to sale the team.

    Quote Originally Posted by Steagles View Post
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    If you can't handle a small market team putting together cast offs from other teams then you need to go like the Lakers.
    but..but..but, the Lakers have 3 Pacers cast offs on there team.
    .

    Frank Vogel says "Killer instinct, start strong, build a lead and then step on their throats."

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    Default Re: Either the front office needs to go or the owner needs to sale the team.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pacer Fan View Post
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    but..but..but, the Lakers have 3 Pacers cast offs on there team.
    I am very glad that they took one of them. We were never going to win with that player being involved in my opinion...... The most overrated Pacers in history, McBob......

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    Default

    #iCant

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    Default Re: Either the front office needs to go or the owner needs to sale the team.

    1. We couldn't have gotten Plumlee in the 2nd round... other late 1st round teams had him on their radar.
    2. Sure Orlando Johnson hasn't been shooting well but he is doing good. He scores points even when he's not shooting well by getting to the FT line and grabs a lot of rebounds. He needs time to develop a little more.
    3. We overpaid HIll a bit but how can you say we overpaid for Hibbert when Brook Lopez got 4 yr 61 mil.
    4. We probably could have gotten more fore DC, but the reason we traded for Mahinmi instead of straight signing him was bc of Dahntays contract and it's not like we were going to pay DC what he wants next year. Also getting Dahntay in the trade made us able to sign Green and not have a logjam at that position.
    5. Our starters played GREAT if not better than most teams we played last season, the problem was our bench sucked badly. When you have Lou and Tyler at your 4&5 nothing good comes of that.
    6. Sure we not might not be ready to beat the Heat in a series, but nor could the Thunder with Durant,Ibaka, Harden, Sefalosha, and Westbrook
    7. Mahinmi, Green, Augustin >>>>> DC and Dahntay

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    Default Re: Either the front office needs to go or the owner needs to sale the team.

    Quote Originally Posted by PacerFreak31 View Post
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    I am not sure who is to blame for all the blunders this off season but one or both of the front office and owner needs to go. We draft a guy the could have been taken with our second round pick. Then we draft a guy with our second round pick that to say has shown nothing is an understatement. Then we way overpay for Hill and Hilbert. Now we trade two players with some trade value for a guy we could have signed as a FA.

    The thing in all of this is that we should have gotten more in all of our dealings with other teams. We should have traded back in the draft and picked up an asset. We should have gotten more for DC and Jones. Our starters and bench will still not beat the Heat in a series. Other teams are getting better and we seem to think that making tweaks to the bench will make us world beaters, is just sickening. For whatever reason we are afraid to win in trades or FA. Not sure if it is the owner or front office but we are going nowhere fast. This is coming from a glass is half full person.
    Well, that settles it... We know who will be leading the charge with torches and pitchforks...

    Now, who is gonna drag them out of BLF by their earballs?

    Get a life, bro! It sounds like the keggers half full, buddy!

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    Default Re: Either the front office needs to go or the owner needs to sale the team.

    I love what the pacers have done. The knicks have had a sad off season. They have signed a bunch of old guys. Hppefully the biggest flaw with the Pacers has been fixed which was those long scoring droughts they kept having last season.

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    Default Re: Either the front office needs to go or the owner needs to sale the team.

    Ha. Love judging players by summer league.

    Lance tore up summer league his rookie year and Paul George couldn't make a shot. How'd that work out so far? lol

    And people accuse me of being a know it all. Look at this mess.

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    Default Re: Either the front office needs to go or the owner needs to sale the team.

    Quote Originally Posted by xBulletproof View Post
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    Ha. Love judging players by summer league.

    Lance tore up summer league his rookie year and Paul George couldn't make a shot. How'd that work out so far? lol

    And people accuse me of being a know it all. Look at this mess.
    Can't wait till next season. It will be a winning team competing for the Central division, especially with Rose out a while. But that won't be good enough. With every loss the message boards will be filled with people wanting to blow things up and calling a winning team a "mess".

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    Default Re: Either the front office needs to go or the owner needs to sale the team.

    Quote Originally Posted by PacerFreak31 View Post
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    I am not sure who is to blame for all the blunders this off season but one or both of the front office and owner needs to go. We draft a guy the could have been taken with our second round pick. Then we draft a guy with our second round pick that to say has shown nothing is an understatement. Then we way overpay for Hill and Hilbert. Now we trade two players with some trade value for a guy we could have signed as a FA.

    The thing in all of this is that we should have gotten more in all of our dealings with other teams. We should have traded back in the draft and picked up an asset. We should have gotten more for DC and Jones. Our starters and bench will still not beat the Heat in a series. Other teams are getting better and we seem to think that making tweaks to the bench will make us world beaters, is just sickening. For whatever reason we are afraid to win in trades or FA. Not sure if it is the owner or front office but we are going nowhere fast. This is coming from a glass is half full person.

    Please do not call people names. We turned Collison who probably wouldn't have signed next year with us anyways and Jones into Ian Mahinmi who is a good backup center. You realized he is a 7 footer right? So in other words we have Hibbert who we honestly did not overpay for considering Lopez signed a 4 year $61 million dollar deal. Seriously? Hibbert is much better than Lopez too. That means we now have three 7 seven footers on our team who are all skilled in their own ways. Look at NBA rosters a lot are lucky to have one 7 footer who is decent.

    Next, we sign Gerald Green who is very underrated. The guy is pure athleticism and can still improve and guess what we signed him for a steal. Also, we signed DJ Augustin for a 1 year deal for 3.5 mil I believe? Which is also a steal.

    As for Hill did we overpay? Maybe...but did he prove himself to be a good player and an asset to our team? YES. Therefore, I'm okay with what we paid him.
    In conclusion, we basically turned Collison who as I said wouldn't even back after next year and Jones who I like but honestly wasn't that good into a 7 foot monster who is coming off the bench, Gerald Green who can still get better and is pretty impressive, and DJ Augustin who has proven himself to be a good point guard. Oh and guess what...this is out BENCH. You honesly don't know basketball if you don't realized that we now have arguably the best bench in the league. IMO we are going to be scary good next year because guess what...Paul George is only going to get better,Lance is only going to get better,Plumlee will only get better,and Orlando will only get better. Also, it's just another year of our guys playing together and learning to play as a team. Sorry for the rant. GO PACERS!

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    Default Re: Either the front office needs to go or the owner needs to sale the team.

    Quote Originally Posted by k_lewis93 View Post
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    I don't mean to be rude but ur an idiot. We turned Collison who probably wouldn't have signed next year with us anyways and Jones into Ian Mahinmi who is a good backup center. You realized he is a 7 footer right? So in other words we have Hibbert who we honestly did not overpay for considering Lopez signed a 4 year $61 million dollar deal. Seriously? Hibbert is much better than Lopez too. That means we now have three 7 seven footers on our team who are all skilled in their own ways. Look at NBA rosters a lot are lucky to have one 7 footer who is decent.

    Next, we sign Gerald Green who is very underrated. The guy is pure athleticism and can still improve and guess what we signed him for a steal. Also, we signed DJ Augustin for a 1 year deal for 3.5 mil I believe? Which is also a steal.

    As for Hill did we overpay? Maybe...but did he prove himself to be a good player and an asset to our team? YES. Therefore, I'm okay with what we paid him.
    In conclusion, we basically turned Collison who as I said wouldn't even back after next year and Jones who I like but honestly wasn't that good into a 7 foot monster who is coming off the bench, Gerald Green who can still get better and is pretty impressive, and DJ Augustin who has proven himself to be a good point guard. Oh and guess what...this is out BENCH. You honesly don't know basketball if you don't realized that we now have arguably the best bench in the league. IMO we are going to be scary good next year because guess what...Paul George is only going to get better,Lance is only going to get better,Plumlee will only get better,and Orlando will only get better. Also, it's just another year of our guys playing together and learning to play as a team. Sorry for the rant. GO PACERS!
    You have got to be kidding, the best bench in the league. If I remember right people were saying that last year and look what that bench did for us in the playoffs. You do not know what Collison's future with us was, you are guessing. You do not know what Augustine's future with us is. Your back up center that you talk about was a third stringer for most of the year until injury gave him a chance to play. Plumlee with all that talent you seem to see could not play major minutes in college for the best coach in college in four years and produced no numbers. There is a reason for that, I am not sure yet what that is but there is a reason. Although I like us taking a chance on Green he is still not proven anything over the long haul. He played half the season we need to see more. He is a gamble.

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    Default Re: Either the front office needs to go or the owner needs to sale the team.

    Quote Originally Posted by doctor-h View Post
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    You have got to be kidding, the best bench in the league. If I remember right people were saying that last year and look what that bench did for us in the playoffs. You do not know what Collison's future with us was, you are guessing. You do not know what Augustine's future with us is. Your back up center that you talk about was a third stringer for most of the year until injury gave him a chance to play. Plumlee with all that talent you seem to see could not play major minutes in college for the best coach in college in four years and produced no numbers. There is a reason for that, I am not sure yet what that is but there is a reason. Although I like us taking a chance on Green he is still not proven anything over the long haul. He played half the season we need to see more. He is a gamble.
    Yes one of the best benches in the league. We all loved Lou and he was decent this new center is better then him. He is tall, athletic, and works hard. You are forgetting that all we really lost this off season IMO was Barbosa and Collison. Barbosa was absolutely terrible in the playoffs and Collison was good but good Lord stop saying that Collison would possibly stay with us b/c he wouldn't have. You realize as soon as Hill took his spot that he got fired up and played better so obviously he wanted his spot back which clearly means he thinks he's a starter. Plus, I'm sure he would ask more than what the Pacers would be willing to pay. Plumlee is a tall/athletic center who is only going to get better. I hated the draft pick at first but the guy has surprised me in the summer league by his offense and his nice little baseline hook type shot. Will he be David West? Heck no. Will he be a Foster type player but better offensively? Very well could be. And as far as all the reports say Augustin is playing with us for 1 year so I kinda do know his future with us. Soooo don't know what the heck you mean there and I would take Augustin over Collison pretty much everyday of the week b/c he is what we needed. We needed a true pg who would distribute the ball and get assists for us. Collison wasn't that guy. Please do ur homework and stop being a debby downer.

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    Default Re: Either the front office needs to go or the owner needs to sale the team.

    Quote Originally Posted by doctor-h View Post
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    You have got to be kidding, the best bench in the league. If I remember right people were saying that last year and look what that bench did for us in the playoffs. You do not know what Collison's future with us was, you are guessing. You do not know what Augustine's future with us is. Your back up center that you talk about was a third stringer for most of the year until injury gave him a chance to play. Plumlee with all that talent you seem to see could not play major minutes in college for the best coach in college in four years and produced no numbers. There is a reason for that, I am not sure yet what that is but there is a reason. Although I like us taking a chance on Green he is still not proven anything over the long haul. He played half the season we need to see more. He is a gamble.
    The FO's only job is to make sure the team that they put out on the court is better than the team they put on the court the year before. You're welcome.

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    Last Post: 10-21-2008, 10:19 AM

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