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The Rules of Pacers Digest

Hello everyone,

Whether your are a long standing forum member or whether you have just registered today, it's a good idea to read and review the rules below so that you have a very good idea of what to expect when you come to Pacers Digest.

A quick note to new members: Your posts will not immediately show up when you make them. An administrator has to approve at least your first post before the forum software will later upgrade your account to the status of a fully-registered member. This usually happens within a couple of hours or so after your post(s) is/are approved, so you may need to be a little patient at first.

Why do we do this? So that it's more difficult for spammers (be they human or robot) to post, and so users who are banned cannot immediately re-register and start dousing people with verbal flames.

Below are the rules of Pacers Digest. After you have read them, you will have a very good sense of where we are coming from, what we expect, what we don't want to see, and how we react to things.

Rule #1

Pacers Digest is intended to be a place to discuss basketball without having to deal with the kinds of behaviors or attitudes that distract people from sticking with the discussion of the topics at hand. These unwanted distractions can come in many forms, and admittedly it can sometimes be tricky to pin down each and every kind that can rear its ugly head, but we feel that the following examples and explanations cover at least a good portion of that ground and should at least give people a pretty good idea of the kinds of things we actively discourage:

"Anyone who __________ is a liar / a fool / an idiot / a blind homer / has their head buried in the sand / a blind hater / doesn't know basketball / doesn't watch the games"

"People with intelligence will agree with me when I say that __________"

"Only stupid people think / believe / do ___________"

"I can't wait to hear something from PosterX when he/she sees that **insert a given incident or current event that will have probably upset or disappointed PosterX here**"

"He/she is just delusional"

"This thread is stupid / worthless / embarrassing"

"I'm going to take a moment to point and / laugh at PosterX / GroupOfPeopleY who thought / believed *insert though/belief here*"

"Remember when PosterX said OldCommentY that no longer looks good? "

In general, if a comment goes from purely on topic to something 'ad hominem' (personal jabs, personal shots, attacks, flames, however you want to call it, towards a person, or a group of people, or a given city/state/country of people), those are most likely going to be found intolerable.

We also dissuade passive aggressive behavior. This can be various things, but common examples include statements that are basically meant to imply someone is either stupid or otherwise incapable of holding a rational conversation. This can include (but is not limited to) laughing at someone's conclusions rather than offering an honest rebuttal, asking people what game they were watching, or another common problem is Poster X will say "that player isn't that bad" and then Poster Y will say something akin to "LOL you think that player is good". We're not going to tolerate those kinds of comments out of respect for the community at large and for the sake of trying to just have an honest conversation.

Now, does the above cover absolutely every single kind of distraction that is unwanted? Probably not, but you should by now have a good idea of the general types of things we will be discouraging. The above examples are meant to give you a good feel for / idea of what we're looking for. If something new or different than the above happens to come along and results in the same problem (that being, any other attitude or behavior that ultimately distracts from actually just discussing the topic at hand, or that is otherwise disrespectful to other posters), we can and we will take action to curb this as well, so please don't take this to mean that if you managed to technically avoid saying something exactly like one of the above examples that you are then somehow off the hook.

That all having been said, our goal is to do so in a generally kind and respectful way, and that doesn't mean the moment we see something we don't like that somebody is going to be suspended or banned, either. It just means that at the very least we will probably say something about it, quite possibly snipping out the distracting parts of the post in question while leaving alone the parts that are actually just discussing the topics, and in the event of a repeating or excessive problem, then we will start issuing infractions to try to further discourage further repeat problems, and if it just never seems to improve, then finally suspensions or bans will come into play. We would prefer it never went that far, and most of the time for most of our posters, it won't ever have to.

A slip up every once and a while is pretty normal, but, again, when it becomes repetitive or excessive, something will be done. Something occasional is probably going to be let go (within reason), but when it starts to become habitual or otherwise a pattern, odds are very good that we will step in.

There's always a small minority that like to push people's buttons and/or test their own boundaries with regards to the administrators, and in the case of someone acting like that, please be aware that this is not a court of law, but a private website run by people who are simply trying to do the right thing as they see it. If we feel that you are a special case that needs to be dealt with in an exceptional way because your behavior isn't explicitly mirroring one of our above examples of what we generally discourage, we can and we will take atypical action to prevent this from continuing if you are not cooperative with us.

Also please be aware that you will not be given a pass simply by claiming that you were 'only joking,' because quite honestly, when someone really is just joking, for one thing most people tend to pick up on the joke, including the person or group that is the target of the joke, and for another thing, in the event where an honest joke gets taken seriously and it upsets or angers someone, the person who is truly 'only joking' will quite commonly go out of his / her way to apologize and will try to mend fences. People who are dishonest about their statements being 'jokes' do not do so, and in turn that becomes a clear sign of what is really going on. It's nothing new.

In any case, quite frankly, the overall quality and health of the entire forum's community is more important than any one troublesome user will ever be, regardless of exactly how a problem is exhibiting itself, and if it comes down to us having to make a choice between you versus the greater health and happiness of the entire community, the community of this forum will win every time.

Lastly, there are also some posters, who are generally great contributors and do not otherwise cause any problems, who sometimes feel it's their place to provoke or to otherwise 'mess with' that small minority of people described in the last paragraph, and while we possibly might understand why you might feel you WANT to do something like that, the truth is we can't actually tolerate that kind of behavior from you any more than we can tolerate the behavior from them. So if we feel that you are trying to provoke those other posters into doing or saying something that will get themselves into trouble, then we will start to view you as a problem as well, because of the same reason as before: The overall health of the forum comes first, and trying to stir the pot with someone like that doesn't help, it just makes it worse. Some will simply disagree with this philosophy, but if so, then so be it because ultimately we have to do what we think is best so long as it's up to us.

If you see a problem that we haven't addressed, the best and most appropriate course for a forum member to take here is to look over to the left of the post in question. See underneath that poster's name, avatar, and other info, down where there's a little triangle with an exclamation point (!) in it? Click that. That allows you to report the post to the admins so we can definitely notice it and give it a look to see what we feel we should do about it. Beyond that, obviously it's human nature sometimes to want to speak up to the poster in question who has bothered you, but we would ask that you try to refrain from doing so because quite often what happens is two or more posters all start going back and forth about the original offending post, and suddenly the entire thread is off topic or otherwise derailed. So while the urge to police it yourself is understandable, it's best to just report it to us and let us handle it. Thank you!

All of the above is going to be subject to a case by case basis, but generally and broadly speaking, this should give everyone a pretty good idea of how things will typically / most often be handled.

Rule #2

If the actions of an administrator inspire you to make a comment, criticism, or express a concern about it, there is a wrong place and a couple of right places to do so.

The wrong place is to do so in the original thread in which the administrator took action. For example, if a post gets an infraction, or a post gets deleted, or a comment within a larger post gets clipped out, in a thread discussing Paul George, the wrong thing to do is to distract from the discussion of Paul George by adding your off topic thoughts on what the administrator did.

The right places to do so are:

A) Start a thread about the specific incident you want to talk about on the Feedback board. This way you are able to express yourself in an area that doesn't throw another thread off topic, and this way others can add their two cents as well if they wish, and additionally if there's something that needs to be said by the administrators, that is where they will respond to it.

B) Send a private message to the administrators, and they can respond to you that way.

If this is done the wrong way, those comments will be deleted, and if it's a repeating problem then it may also receive an infraction as well.

Rule #3

If a poster is bothering you, and an administrator has not or will not deal with that poster to the extent that you would prefer, you have a powerful tool at your disposal, one that has recently been upgraded and is now better than ever: The ability to ignore a user.

When you ignore a user, you will unfortunately still see some hints of their existence (nothing we can do about that), however, it does the following key things:

A) Any post they make will be completely invisible as you scroll through a thread.

B) The new addition to this feature: If someone QUOTES a user you are ignoring, you do not have to read who it was, or what that poster said, unless you go out of your way to click on a link to find out who it is and what they said.

To utilize this feature, from any page on Pacers Digest, scroll to the top of the page, look to the top right where it says 'Settings' and click that. From the settings page, look to the left side of the page where it says 'My Settings', and look down from there until you see 'Edit Ignore List' and click that. From here, it will say 'Add a Member to Your List...' Beneath that, click in the text box to the right of 'User Name', type in or copy & paste the username of the poster you are ignoring, and once their name is in the box, look over to the far right and click the 'Okay' button. All done!

Rule #4

Regarding infractions, currently they carry a value of one point each, and that point will expire in 31 days. If at any point a poster is carrying three points at the same time, that poster will be suspended until the oldest of the three points expires.

Rule #5

When you share or paste content or articles from another website, you must include the URL/link back to where you found it, who wrote it, and what website it's from. Said content will be removed if this doesn't happen.

An example:

If I copy and paste an article from the Indianapolis Star website, I would post something like this:

http://www.linktothearticlegoeshere.com/article
Title of the Article
Author's Name
Indianapolis Star

Rule #6

We cannot tolerate illegal videos on Pacers Digest. This means do not share any links to them, do not mention any websites that host them or link to them, do not describe how to find them in any way, and do not ask about them. Posts doing anything of the sort will be removed, the offenders will be contacted privately, and if the problem becomes habitual, you will be suspended, and if it still persists, you will probably be banned.

The legal means of watching or listening to NBA games are NBA League Pass Broadband (for US, or for International; both cost money) and NBA Audio League Pass (which is free). Look for them on NBA.com.

Rule #7

Provocative statements in a signature, or as an avatar, or as the 'tagline' beneath a poster's username (where it says 'Member' or 'Administrator' by default, if it is not altered) are an unwanted distraction that will more than likely be removed on sight. There can be shades of gray to this, but in general this could be something political or religious that is likely going to provoke or upset people, or otherwise something that is mean-spirited at the expense of a poster, a group of people, or a population.

It may or may not go without saying, but this goes for threads and posts as well, particularly when it's not made on the off-topic board (Market Square).

We do make exceptions if we feel the content is both innocuous and unlikely to cause social problems on the forum (such as wishing someone a Merry Christmas or a Happy Easter), and we also also make exceptions if such topics come up with regards to a sports figure (such as the Lance Stephenson situation bringing up discussions of domestic abuse and the law, or when Jason Collins came out as gay and how that lead to some discussion about gay rights).

However, once the discussion seems to be more/mostly about the political issues instead of the sports figure or his specific situation, the thread is usually closed.

Rule #8

We prefer self-restraint and/or modesty when making jokes or off topic comments in a sports discussion thread. They can be fun, but sometimes they derail or distract from a topic, and we don't want to see that happen. If we feel it is a problem, we will either delete or move those posts from the thread.

Rule #9

Generally speaking, we try to be a "PG-13" rated board, and we don't want to see sexual content or similarly suggestive content. Vulgarity is a more muddled issue, though again we prefer things to lean more towards "PG-13" than "R". If we feel things have gone too far, we will step in.

Rule #10

We like small signatures, not big signatures. The bigger the signature, the more likely it is an annoying or distracting signature.

Rule #11

Do not advertise anything without talking about it with the administrators first. This includes advertising with your signature, with your avatar, through private messaging, and/or by making a thread or post.
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So how much cap space do we have left?

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  • #16
    Re: So how much cap space do we have left?

    Originally posted by Eleazar View Post
    You have to start over the cap to have an MLE. But you you start under you are allowed to go over by something like $2.75 million to fill out your roster or something like that.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NBA_sal...evel_exception

    Mid-level exception
    Once a year, teams can use a mid-level exception (MLE) to sign a player to a contract for a specified maximum amount. The amount of the MLE and its duration depend on the team's cap status. The MLE is $5 million for a duration of four years for teams that are over the cap either before or after the signing, but did not pay a luxury tax in the previous season. Teams without cap room that paid tax in the previous season have an MLE of $3 million with a three-year duration. Teams with cap room, previously ineligible for the MLE, have a new MLE of $2.5 million with a two-year duration. The MLE is frozen at the stated levels through the 2012–13 season, after which it increases by 3% per season.
    Before the 2011 CBA, the MLE was equal to the average NBA salary for all teams over the cap. Teams with cap room were previously ineligible for the MLE. The Mid-Level Exception for the 2008–09 NBA season was $5.585*million.The MLE was $5.854*million for the 2009–10 NBA regular season.
    According to this, we should have an additional 5mil to spend.

    Comment


    • #17
      Re: So how much cap space do we have left?

      Originally posted by Eleazar View Post
      We aren't that far over. no idea on luxury tax, but we ain't close.
      Luxury tax is set at about 70mil.

      Comment


      • #18
        Re: So how much cap space do we have left?

        Originally posted by LA_Confidential View Post
        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NBA_sal...evel_exception



        According to this, we should have an additional 5mil to spend.

        So realistically, we could make a bid on Scola still? I think someone said the starting bid has to be 3.3mil?

        Or we could sign another shooter which I really think we could use. Probably someone on the cheaper side like Jodie Meeks or Michael Redd. But if we have 5 mil, that means we could also make a run at Mayo, Lee or West? Or bring back Barbosa.

        That's awesome if we still have 5 million left.
        "I have never taken the high road, but I tell other people to ’cause then there’s more room for me on the low road."

        Comment


        • #19
          Re: So how much cap space do we have left?

          Augustin was great before he got injured early in the year, plus he had to shoulder too much of a load given how horrible the team was. He should be more effficient in his new role.
          Goodbye Captain, My Captain. I wish you had the chance to sink or swim with your ship on its quest for the "ship".

          Comment


          • #20
            Re: So how much cap space do we have left?

            No cap space left.

            No MLE either. In any case, can't use MLE to claim amnesty players.

            We do have a $2.5m "room" exception. That's a new wrinkle in the current CBA. However, from what our FO is saying, it seems unlikely that we'll be doing any more spending. Maybe another min level player or 2 for depth. But if it's true that we're looking to bring back Barbosa, then we might be saving that room exception for him.

            Comment


            • #21
              Re: So how much cap space do we have left?

              Originally posted by TOP View Post
              How much is the MLE and does that mean we can sign both Barbosa and use the MLE on someone else?

              We're at 14 players currently I believe so I guess it wouldn't matter if we could sign 2 or not because don't have room for 2.

              I really don't know a lot about the new CBA. What exactly is bird rights to Barbosa? And I thought I saw something us about us renouncing the rights to him.


              Thanks for not being a jerk by the way. I appreciate an honest response
              14 players? I'm counting 13:

              Hibbert/Mahinmi/Plumlee
              West/Hansbrough/Pendergraph
              Granger/Green
              George/Johnson
              Hill/Augustin/Stephenson

              I'm pretty sure we must have renounced Barbosa's Bird rights already. There's no other way we could have fit the Augustin and Green signings otherwise. (Mahinmi was a S&T that didn't require cap space).

              As mentioned above, no MLE because we already used cap space to sign Augustin and Green. But we still have the $2.5m room exception to spend if the FO is willing.

              Comment


              • #22
                Re: So how much cap space do we have left?

                Originally posted by wintermute View Post
                No cap space left.

                No MLE either. In any case, can't use MLE to claim amnesty players.

                We do have a $2.5m "room" exception. That's a new wrinkle in the current CBA. However, from what our FO is saying, it seems unlikely that we'll be doing any more spending. Maybe another min level player or 2 for depth. But if it's true that we're looking to bring back Barbosa, then we might be saving that room exception for him.
                We weren't using MLE money to sign Green and Augustine, we should have the full 5 million, since we weren't paying the Luxury Tax last season, unless i'm completely reading the provision incorrectly. We signed green and Augustin with our own cap space that was free before officially inking Hibbert and Hill, why would that effect our MLE, which applies even if the MLE itself is the reason for going over the cap?
                Last edited by daschysta; 07-14-2012, 03:15 AM.
                Goodbye Captain, My Captain. I wish you had the chance to sink or swim with your ship on its quest for the "ship".

                Comment


                • #23
                  Re: So how much cap space do we have left?

                  Originally posted by daschysta View Post
                  We weren't using MLE money to sign Green and Augustine, we should have the full 5 million, since we weren't paying the Luxury Tax last season, unless i'm completely reading the provision incorrectly. We signed green and Augustin with our own cap space that was free before officially inking Hibbert and Hill, why would that effect our MLE, which applies even if the MLE itself is the reason for going over the cap?
                  Can't have both cap space and full MLE in the same season. Or to be more precise technically, the MLE counts against the cap and we would have to waive it in order to use our cap space to sign players.

                  See: http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q26

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Re: So how much cap space do we have left?

                    I'm still getting used to this new CBA. Are we 100% sure we have some smaller version of the MLE right now? Is it 2.5, 2.75, or 3m?

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Re: So how much cap space do we have left?

                      I think we should have at least the room exception which is 2.5M I think.
                      "Danny Granger is one of the top players in the league. To move Danny, you better get a lot back." - Larry Bird

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Re: So how much cap space do we have left?

                        Barbosa's cap hold was ~$8 million, so no, we do not still have his Bird Rights.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Re: So how much cap space do we have left?

                          Originally posted by Hicks View Post
                          I'm still getting used to this new CBA. Are we 100% sure we have some smaller version of the MLE right now? Is it 2.5, 2.75, or 3m?
                          Yes we should have the (new) room exception. It's actually worth $2.575m this season.

                          http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q25

                          ROOM MID-LEVEL EXCEPTION -- This exception is available only to teams that drop far enough below the cap to use cap room, and lose their Bi-Annual, Non-Taxpayer Mid-Level and Taxpayer Mid-Level exceptions (see question number 26). This exception cannot be used if the team has already used the Bi-Annual, Non-Taxpayer Mid-Level or Taxpayer Mid-Level exceptions. This exception becomes available once the team salary drops far enough that the team loses its other exceptions, and expires following the last day of the regular season.

                          This exception allows a team to sign any free agent, starting at up to the following amounts:

                          Season First-year salary
                          2011-12 $2.500 million
                          2012-13 $2.575 million


                          This exception may be split and given to multiple players. It may be used for contracts up to two years in length, with raises up to 4.5% of the salary in the first year of the contract. Signing a player to a multi-year contract does not affect a team's ability to use this exception every year -- for example, a team can use this exception to sign a player to a two-year contract, and use it again the following year to sign another player. Also see question number 26 for more information on the availability and use of this exception.

                          Once a team has used this exception, it can no longer use the Bi-Annual, Non-Taxpayer Mid-Level or Taxpayer Mid-Level exception.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Re: So how much cap space do we have left?

                            Also, the Pacers only have 12 players under contract because Orlando Johnson hasn't been signed yet. I'm not saying he won't be signed but as of right now he isn't under contract.

                            Baring a trade, I think the Pacers are done with Free Agency.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Re: So how much cap space do we have left?

                              Originally posted by wintermute View Post
                              Can't have both cap space and full MLE in the same season. Or to be more precise technically, the MLE counts against the cap and we would have to waive it in order to use our cap space to sign players.

                              See: http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q26
                              Thanks for the link. It is a good read.

                              We don't have the full MLE this year but we do have the Mini MLE/ Room MLE of 2.5mil. We are over the cap this year though. As long as we stay below the tax threshold we will have the full MLE next season.

                              My guess is if we can get Barbosa to agree to the MMLE then that would be the best option we have left of adding a bench scorer.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Re: So how much cap space do we have left?

                                Originally posted by TOP View Post
                                We have absolutely 0 cap space left?

                                Ouch.

                                Starting to think Augustin might have to start then.

                                Vogel likes to bring in the entire bench. I don't even want to think about Augustin, Stephenson, Green, Hansbrough and Mahinimi trying to score if they're all on the floor at once.

                                I'm assuming Vogel won't be bringing in the entire bench anymore if we don't have any space to sign another shooter/scorer to come off the bench.
                                All those guys like to do is score, well atleast the first 4, lol Defense will be interesting though.
                                Why so SERIOUS

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