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Thread: Can we win a Title?

  1. #51
    Jimmy did what Jimmy did Bball's Avatar
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    Default Re: Can we win a Title?

    When we have someone who can rise up and take over a game then yes, we can win a championship. Until then, no.

    Is that guy on our roster?
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  2. #52
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    Default Re: Can we win a Title?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bball View Post
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    When we have someone who can rise up and take over a game then yes, we can win a championship. Until then, no.

    Is that guy on our roster?
    If you are a team that relies only on 2 or 3 guys you need that, but we aren't playing by that model.

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  4. #53
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    Default Re: Can we win a Title?

    You never know what is gonna happen, so I will say Yes, we can win!

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  6. #54

    Default Re: Can we win a Title?

    of course we can, we have a solid team who is a tough opponent for anybody.. not likely but hey if you get hot in the playoffs you never know what could happen

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    Default Re: Can we win a Title?

    no.

    unfortunately a team whose best player is granger won't take the title. you need at least a star player to win it all (i know detroit was an exception)

  9. #56
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    Default Re: Can we win a Title?

    Yes, absolutely we can.

    We proved last year that we can play with, and beat... ANYONE in this league.

    We took our bruises in the 2nd half of the Miami series, and we will learn from it.

    This team can absolutely compete for a championship. Will it be easy? No. Am I going to forecast we automatically get to the ECF's? No.

    But I know that we CAN do it if we play smashmouth Pacers basketball.

    I think the trades/signings help us tremendously towards our goal of competing for a championship. Our bench is much stronger now than 2 days ago.
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  11. #57
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    Default Re: Can we win a Title?

    Quote Originally Posted by will567 View Post
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    No! We have also fallen behind others in the East. I cannot believe that we can stand pat and think we can have a repeat of last season. The luck we had last season cannot be duplicated (Howard less Orlando, a Chicago team with no plan if Rose got hurt, Horford out for Alt and Bosh being hurt). Philly, Alt. (addition of Williams and subtraction of Marvin and Joe), Nets, Chicago (drafting Teague adding Hinrich) Boston and New York are all better then the Pacers. Also Toronto, Washington and the Bucks all have made major moves to improve and should fight for the playoffs. I am not sure it is a given that we make the playoffs. I know that Darren is being dumped on by the local media but he started most of the season and we won a lot of games. Also he was playing on a team that early in the season was terrible at finishing off plays. I also hear that he lead breaks and shot a lot but as I remember guys were not running with him to help. I am not sold that Hill is a starting point guard and we signed a backup with a losing track record to back him up. We have taken a real step back this offseason that will be like the Murphy and Mike Dunleavy years. Roy will hurt us at some point during this next contract because he is way over paid and 40 million for Hill is just mind blowing. This is a borderline playoff team and we will continue to see that for years to come. I hope you are happy with that because that is all we are ever going to be. We have no upside!
    Wow! You sure have a positive outlook.

    I think we have a very small remote chance to win it all, but an enormous amount of things will have to go our way for that to happen, starting with George being more assertive and aggressive offensively, a good training camp for the whole team and everybody healthy in it and a good gameplan from the coach aka a good philosophy on how we are going to play, Augustin to mesh nicely into the team and our bench in general producing better during the playoffs and Vogel not subbing all of them in at the sametime like this past postseason against the Heat.

    And maybe most importantly the team chemistry needs to be guarded, closely. IF our team wants to go somewhere our players will have to continue to be willing to work their tails off for each other, the coach, the front office and the fans.

    I also believe their is also still a good possibility of players improving due to players reaching more of their potential, aswell as experience and maturity gained and getting a full training camp under their belt. I also like the vibe our team has. Very nice.

    Even if not all of the above can be accomplished we should still be a playoff team, even with the other teams improving. This is a tough and talented team even if we don't have an "alpha dog".
    Last edited by Mourning; 07-13-2012 at 05:12 AM. Reason: dumb spelling error
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  13. #58
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    Default Re: Can we win a Title?

    Continuity teams that don't make huge splashes in the offseason are always underrated. Good to see us fit into the mold. I agree with Mourning's assessment.

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  15. #59
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    Default Re: Can we win a Title?

    Quote Originally Posted by Young View Post
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    Others might disagree with me but I thought then and I still believe it now that the Pacers should have won the championship in 2004 and 2005. At the very least the talent was there.

    03-04:
    PG: Jamaal Tinsley/Anthony Johnson/Kenny Anderson
    SG: Reggie Miller/Fred Jones
    SF: Ron Artest/Jonathan Bender
    PF: Jermaine O'Neal/Al Harrington/Austin Croshere
    C: Jeff Foster/Scot Pollard

    04-05:
    PG: Jamaal Tinsley/Anthony Johnson/Eddie Gill
    SG: Reggie Miller/Stephen/Jackson/Fred Jones
    SF: Ron Artest/Jonathan Bender/James Jones/Michael Curry
    PF: Jermaine O'Neal/Austin Croshere
    C: Jeff Foster/Scot Pollard/David Harrison/Dale Davis

    I know I am leaving other guys off from the 04-05 squad but they don't really matter.

    My first thought after seeing these rosters is that these were DEEP teams. The Pacers from this past year were known as deep but I don't think they compare to these two teams.

    Do you believe that the team the Pacers currently has is on par, talent-wise, with the teams in 03-04/04-05? I think this Pacers team has the potential to be similar. Of course it depends on guys improving but I don't think it depends on say Paul George becoming the Orlando Magic version of Tracy McGrady. The players do need to improve. The other factors in this will be the fit. The players on those two Pacers teams complemented each other well. Sure there were some weaknesses but overall they played well together. I think that last season was a season for this current Pacers team to find there way so to speak...to really develop some chemistry that will pay off this season.

    Do I think this current Pacer team can win a championship? Yes, I do. As of right now would I predict them to? No. Keep this in mind though. That Pacer squad in 03-04 that won a league best 61 games (and if I remember correctly didn't lose more than once before they won again) just lost Brad Miller who was an all-star in 2003. Who thought the Pacers would go on to win 61 games after that? I wouldn't count out this Pacers squad to surprise some people this year either.
    True. And let's also not forget that that team back then had some serious mentality and chemistry issues. That's something that's not holding back our current team.
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  17. #60
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    Default Re: Can we win a Title?

    Quote Originally Posted by Young View Post
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    Others might disagree with me but I thought then and I still believe it now that the Pacers should have won the championship in 2004 and 2005. At the very least the talent was there.

    03-04:
    PG: Jamaal Tinsley/Anthony Johnson/Kenny Anderson
    SG: Reggie Miller/Fred Jones
    SF: Ron Artest/Jonathan Bender
    PF: Jermaine O'Neal/Al Harrington/Austin Croshere
    C: Jeff Foster/Scot Pollard

    04-05:
    PG: Jamaal Tinsley/Anthony Johnson/Eddie Gill
    SG: Reggie Miller/Stephen/Jackson/Fred Jones
    SF: Ron Artest/Jonathan Bender/James Jones/Michael Curry
    PF: Jermaine O'Neal/Austin Croshere
    C: Jeff Foster/Scot Pollard/David Harrison/Dale Davis

    I know I am leaving other guys off from the 04-05 squad but they don't really matter.

    My first thought after seeing these rosters is that these were DEEP teams. The Pacers from this past year were known as deep but I don't think they compare to these two teams.

    Do you believe that the team the Pacers currently has is on par, talent-wise, with the teams in 03-04/04-05? I think this Pacers team has the potential to be similar. Of course it depends on guys improving but I don't think it depends on say Paul George becoming the Orlando Magic version of Tracy McGrady. The players do need to improve. The other factors in this will be the fit. The players on those two Pacers teams complemented each other well. Sure there were some weaknesses but overall they played well together. I think that last season was a season for this current Pacers team to find there way so to speak...to really develop some chemistry that will pay off this season.

    Do I think this current Pacer team can win a championship? Yes, I do. As of right now would I predict them to? No. Keep this in mind though. That Pacer squad in 03-04 that won a league best 61 games (and if I remember correctly didn't lose more than once before they won again) just lost Brad Miller who was an all-star in 2003. Who thought the Pacers would go on to win 61 games after that? I wouldn't count out this Pacers squad to surprise some people this year either.
    I don't think it's even close
    Prime Artest (03-pre brawl) was one of the best small forwards this franchise ever had. He was something like a Deng that was able to score
    Jermaine O'neal was probably the best big in the east, All-star, All-NBA type of guy (we have nothing close to that)
    Reggie was probably the best clutch player in the NBA at that time

    and most important, the East wasn't really stacked
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  18. #61
    Artificial Intelligence wintermute's Avatar
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    Default Re: Can we win a Title?

    Quote Originally Posted by rexnom View Post
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    Continuity teams that don't make huge splashes in the offseason are always underrated. Good to see us fit into the mold. I agree with Mourning's assessment.
    While I agree that we're somewhat underrated, I don't know that we can say continuity is a big plus for this team. 5 new players at least, including the key bench guys. Even the starting 5 hasn't been together for a long time (West and Hill for only 1 year, George for only 2).

    Also notice that we're not like the last team Walsh built. Walsh signed or extended J.O., Artest, Tinsley, Jackson, Foster, and Bender to long term contracts all within 2-3 seasons of each other. Our current set up on the other hand features a lot of short deals (including for key guys like Granger, West, Augustin) which IMO means we're favoring flexibility over continuity. And honestly it's probably the right approach in the new CBA era of harsh luxury taxes.

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    Default Re: Can we win a Title?

    Quote Originally Posted by eldubious View Post
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    No, this team really needed to swing for the fences. That means offering a max contract to Gordon, making a real push for Nash, and keeping much of their core. I know it's difficult and improbable but that is the only way I see this team as a real title contender.
    No frail f****** Hoosier losers on this team!!! Enough of Gordon already. I am sick of hearing it and I hope he never comes to the Pacers......

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    Default Re: Can we win a Title?

    Quote Originally Posted by speakout4 View Post
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    We need a star player who wills the team to win by his play and force of personality. The Kobes, James,Wades, Jordans and the like just dominate physically and mentally. We just don't have that player who is so dominant.

    Sometimes the coach has that kind of personality like Popovich, jackson, or Riley.
    Well said......

  21. #64
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    Default Re: Can we win a Title?

    No, but this is the best approach

    The biggest problem wasn't and isn't that our bench isn't good enough, but it is that our best players 1 through 3 are not good enough.

    But our bench needed an upgrade and that is much easier to do than to acquire players better than West, Roy and Granger. Only way IMO we could have acquired a player better than our best three is to take a huge chance on a player hoping they might turn out to be a better player than any of those three guys. Williams or Howard weren't coming here and neither was Nash. So we would have had to gamble, trade one of our best players for a potential player.

    That is usually a bad strategy. I think this is the correct approach, improve where we can, grow as a team, hope that Paul George becomes our best player and that chemistry and stability pull us through.

    This is not unlike the Pacers from 1994 - 2000. The team from 2002 - 2005 tried the other approach, gamble on some questionable guys and most of you didn't appreciate that approach.

    But overall no, we won't beat the Heat in 2013 if both teams are as they are now. But I'd love to see us in the ECF with the Heat next late May to have that chance.

    Pacers need to take the Dallas Mavs approach. Be as good as you can for as long as you can. Tinker each year and we might come up with just the right mixture and win it all like the Mavs did in 2011. But being as good as you can be every year is huge, if the Pacers are good every year 50-58 wins it is much easier to acquire a player who just might push us over-the-top like Tyson Chandler did for the Mavs

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  23. #65
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    Default Re: Can we win a Title?

    If you think the pacers are a contender now, you also thought so before yesterday.

    If you think they have no chance, then you didn't think they had one on Wednesday, either.

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  25. #66
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    Default Re: Can we win a Title?

    Quote Originally Posted by will567 View Post
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    No! We have also fallen behind others in the East. I cannot believe that we can stand pat and think we can have a repeat of last season. The luck we had last season cannot be duplicated (Howard less Orlando, a Chicago team with no plan if Rose got hurt, Horford out for Alt and Bosh being hurt). Philly, Alt. (addition of Williams and subtraction of Marvin and Joe), Nets, Chicago (drafting Teague adding Hinrich) Boston and New York are all better then the Pacers. Also Toronto, Washington and the Bucks all have made major moves to improve and should fight for the playoffs. I am not sure it is a given that we make the playoffs. I know that Darren is being dumped on by the local media but he started most of the season and we won a lot of games. Also he was playing on a team that early in the season was terrible at finishing off plays. I also hear that he lead breaks and shot a lot but as I remember guys were not running with him to help. I am not sold that Hill is a starting point guard and we signed a backup with a losing track record to back him up. We have taken a real step back this offseason that will be like the Murphy and Mike Dunleavy years. Roy will hurt us at some point during this next contract because he is way over paid and 40 million for Hill is just mind blowing. This is a borderline playoff team and we will continue to see that for years to come. I hope you are happy with that because that is all we are ever going to be. We have no upside!

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  27. #67
    Play McRoberts and Price! BRushWithDeath's Avatar
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    Default Re: Can we win a Title?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kstat View Post
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    If you think the pacers are a contender now, you also thought so before yesterday.

    If you think they have no chance, then you didn't think they had one on Wednesday, either.
    Exactly. We didn't get markedly better. We didn't get markedly worse. Nothing changed other than the names.

    If anything, our odds got somewhat worse because other teams got better.
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  29. #68
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    Default Re: Can we win a Title?

    I've seen it mentioned here before, but West could be a huge X factor this season. Last year was his first back from his knee injury, and everyone knows it takes about a year to really come back. He gave us 12.8 and 6.6 last year, but if he can get back to his previous 19 and 8 level, that will make a big difference in how we run our offense. If Hibbert continues to improve (and I'd certainly hope he does!), imagine running our offense thru the 4 and 5 spots and grinding teams down underneath. How will Miami defend that?

    Add what we hope will be an improving PGeorge to what we know we'll get from Granger.... Can we win a title? Sure. I'm still afraid we won't until we have "that guy". But, I do think a team is being assembled here that will be close to overcoming that "star" rule.

  30. #69
    All is full of Orange! Mourning's Avatar
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    Default Re: Can we win a Title?

    But, who is to say our team didn't get better? IF only by looking at our internal development I think we will be better then last year add a full trainingcamp to the mix, West playing without having to recover playingwise from a serious injury and all the starters having played with each other for a year. I think that's pretty big actually. The coaching staff also doesn't really have to tinker much with what works and what doesn't work with regards to the starting lineup, except figure out the rare opponent when DJ might be a better fit to start a game.

    Add to that that we acquired a player who should be better suited to act as a floor general, even though he's not superb at it, then what we had with Collison, aswell as adding some athleticism and length to the bench. OTOH we probably lost some on energy from the bench. But, IMHO I think we will definitely be better then last year, barring injuries from crippling the team.
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    Default Re: Can we win a Title?

    We have a chance, but it is not a great one. We could hope to buck the trend of being superstar-led, like the recent Pistons or the '79 Supersonics, and win without super-elite players. Things have to break right though.

    A better chance would be to follow the example of Danny Ainge, when he had amassed a deep roster he thinned it by trading quantity for quality in getting KG for (Al Jefferson, Ryan Gomes, Sebastian Telfair, Gerald Green, Theo Ratliff, cash considerations, draft picks) and Ray Allen with Big Baby for (Delonte West, Wally Szczerbiak, and the fifth overall pick). So it was essentially a 8-for-3 swap, and 2 of the three new additions became 2 of the best 3 players on the team with all at a perennial all-star level, whereas none of the 8 traded away were of that status (though Jefferson was poised to get there).

    That's how you get from a 10-deep pseudo-contender to a team with the superstars that normally lead a championship team.
    Last edited by Slick Pinkham; 07-13-2012 at 09:55 AM.
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  32. #71
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    Default Re: Can we win a Title?

    Don't forget, Tom, that that Celtics team came off a disastrous season which ended in them getting a high lottery pick after tanking it hard after they saw, early in the season, that they weren't going anywhere, something which I don't ever see happenning here. We don't have that high lottery pick to dangle in front of potential suitors.

    But, either way I have a hard time calling the Celtics pre-trades pseudo-contenders.
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  34. #72
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    Default Re: Can we win a Title?

    Quote Originally Posted by yoadknux View Post
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    I don't think it's even close
    Prime Artest (03-pre brawl) was one of the best small forwards this franchise ever had. He was something like a Deng that was able to score
    Jermaine O'neal was probably the best big in the east, All-star, All-NBA type of guy (we have nothing close to that)
    Reggie was probably the best clutch player in the NBA at that time

    and most important, the East wasn't really stacked
    Don't forget the internal tension and strife. That definitely didn't help and that is where our current team makes up a lot of ground IMHO.
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    Default Re: Can we win a Title?

    Anything is possible.

    But how bout we settle at first for competing for the Central division?

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    Default Re: Can we win a Title?

    Quote Originally Posted by Slick Pinkham View Post
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    We have a chance, but it is not a great one. We could hope to buck the trend of being superstar-led, like the recent Pistons or the '79 Supersonics, and win without super-elite players. Things have to break right though.
    Exactly. It can be done. At this point the message boards are just going to have to stew until October. It appears that Pacers have done what they going to do.

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    Default Re: Can we win a Title?

    I can tell you this:

    With every loss next year, half of this board will be calling for blowing up the team.

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