Last edited by troyc11a; 07-13-2012 at 01:13 AM.
I will say this I liked Plumlee more coming out than Tyler (not saying much I wouldn't of drafted the guy at all hated his game NBA wise) he at least talks on defense and is in decent position(even though he reacts late a lot)
I feel like with Tyler he thinks he is playing an individual sport on defense it is really odd.
Gerald Henderson isnt as bad as you guys are making him out to be. That said, he's in no way a 2nd option
Very excited to see what Augustin can do with a winning program like us.
The Lost Season
Ok, dude! We can disagree and not be mean with it! I believe you werent being insulting! Thanks for the clear up!
I honestly think if you look at Tyler in a vacuum as a "backup" then he is not the disaster folks are suggesting. The two teams in the Finals this year had Haslem and Nick Collison as backup PF's. I would not trade Tyler for either one. Most Backup PF's are not starting for the same reasons Tyler is not. Their game is not refined and they dont do enough good things to start.
And another thing to remember is that Tyler is coming off a bad year. Instead of improving off a solid 2011 he went backwards. Let's wait and see if a normal season without all the back to backs and not having to play with his clone (Lou) produces better results. I think it will!
If you wouldn't trade Hansbrough for Haslem, you're crazy. Haslem is a far superior rebounder and defender. And he can play some center. His jumpshot is far more consistent as well.
This was a great acquisition. Perfect confluence of events that allowed us to swoop in and nab him at a low price this year. Gives us one year to find an actual backup or a starting PG to get Hill back to the bench.
WARNING: MASSIVE TYLER DERAIL (you knew it was coming....ps, I'm excited about DJ as a bench PG who could maybe start with GH as the scoring 6th man star)
It's like people don't think that other people know about B-ball reference.com or something.
So I asked for all players 6'9" to 7'0" listed as PF or F-C only (not C-F or C) and said that the player's season had to qualify for the MPG leaderboard (not be a leader but meet the requirements for consideration).
All single seasons in the last 3 years, so any players that played all 3 years could make the list 3 times
I sorted by eFG% (adjusted for 3PM FG%) and at #165 of 166 came Tyler's 11-12 season. The only dude listed below that was Ben Wallace's 11-12 season. Tyler also ranked at 144 with his "good" season of 10-11. 09-10 he didn't qualify due to injury (but his FG% sucked so it's just as well).
Some guys WAY up the list from there - Casspi, J Thompson, Taj Gibson, Darrell Arthur, Donte Green, Carl Landry, Harrington, H Warrick...it's a long list.
So what? He's a PF not a scoring specialist. Well just how does he rank in FGA/36 I wonder...
53rd in 10-11 with 14.4 per 36
97th in 11-12 with 12 per 36 (at least it went down a little bit)
So he shoots horrible but takes them like he's not too shabby. Interesting comparison here with JAMES JOHNSON...you know, super elite backup PF Johnson
11-12 nearly identical FGA, 7.2 to 6.7 reb (adv Tyler barely), 45% to 40% shooting (adv James obviously).
Yes, James Johnson in his 11-12 season with Toronto put up basically better total key numbers than Tyler did in 11-12. But Tyler is an elite backup? So now that makes Johnson an elite backup too I guess?
But he's a rebounding machine (pretend you didn't just see the spoiler in the JJ comparison)
Hey, look at that, he comes in at 79th for his 10-11 season with an 8.6 per 36. TIED WITH MCROBERTS own 10-11 season with Indy and his same 8.6. but not quite enough to match Blatche's own 10-11 season of 8.7
Keep in mind that Josh "cost too much" at 3m, whereas Tyler is a great deal at....3m.
Considering the identical stat at rebounding, with Josh leading him in FG%, blocks and obviously assists, why in the F did the Pacers agree to keep paying Tyler (rather than trading) while letting Josh walk for the same money? (cough Bird)
Anyway, Tyler also made the list at 118th with his 11-12 season which is totally awesome. I mean not Jerebko or N Collison or H Warrick or Aminu awesome, but certainly way better than I could do (which I think must be the benchmark we've set for "elite backup PF")*
But his rim defense, he's a tough dude that intimidates in that classic Dale PF way. It must be that because so far it's either "meh" to "suck" which doesn't seem to match elite, but WTF do I know.
Atta boy, tied for 145th...or 158 depending on which end of the ties at 0.4 blocks per 36 you put him at. When Luis Scola blocks as many shots as you do, you might have to consider that a lot of your blocks are either accidents or are being misapplied to you by the stats guys.
Tyler comes in strong for a 2nd showing tied at 162nd to dead last with his 0.2 blk per 36 in 11-12. (why did I look, it only hurts more to see Josh's 10-11 blocks ranked 47th, his 11-12 season didn't have enough PT to qualify)
Near worst in shooting, worst in shot blocking, average at best in rebounding....but hey, slightly better than average in chucking up a shot.
And just when you want to dismiss the stats as misleading, a quick check of his FTA/36 puts him at 12th and 23rd. Funny how the one thing his critics acknowledge he does well is the one way in which he statistically shines.
One more "can you believe they paid Tyler 3m but not Josh" stat check...assists
Josh 10-11 ranks 16th, surrounded by Odom and Garnett
Tyler ranks tied for 144-153 (with Lou of 10-11 PHX) and 159-162.
Thank god for 3 seasons of Ibaka and 1 year of Kantner to keep Tyler from ranking last again. Too bad for Tyler that Ibaka actually dunks his way to 53% shooting and blocks 15-20 times more shots (no, literally)
* most of this section should be read in my best Archer sarcastic voice impersonation.
And I'm sure it just make me a giant d-bag to have this tone, but F anyone that has me up at 2AM researching, linking and verifying all the statistical evidence that any damn Pacers fan should already know. I'm a lot friendlier before I read stuff like "tyler is an elite backup" or "why are people so down on Tyler", as if this numbers are a big secret or surprise.
Last edited by Naptown_Seth; 07-13-2012 at 02:18 AM.
Post of the year nominee, whether you agree or not, its just a piece of snarky art. Well done!!
"Atta boy, tied for 145th...or 158 depending on which end of the ties at 0.4 blocks per 36 you put him at. When Luis Scola blocks as many shots as you do, you might have to consider that a lot of your blocks are either accidents or are being misapplied to you by the stats guys."
I mean, how does it get much better than that!
Can we get a "thread hijacked" Smiley?
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I'm very glad he wasn't.
I do not buy that matrics can dertmine whether a guy is a good defender. Only way to know is to watch the player defend.
I would certainly hope that DJ is at least slightly better than Collison defensively
Last edited by Unclebuck; 07-13-2012 at 09:59 AM.
Come on guys, the "I told ya so's" about Hansbrough are silly and starting to get old. He regressed last year, and half of you are jumping on it like you knew that was going to happen, which... you didn't. Admit it. Hansbrough looked pretty damn good a season ago, he led our charge into our first post-season appearance in a few years and he took a lot of momentum into the Bulls 1st-round series where we played better than expected.
He didn't look near as good last year. Why don't you all focus on "why" that's the case instead of just saying "he sucks, see, I told ya." Nice revisionist history, there, fellas.
I support the guy, hell, even Vogel rode the Hansbrough Express when he was first promoted, with all the "NOBODY WANTS TO PLAY TYLER HANSBROUGH" stuff.
So what happened? That's the bigger mystery to me. I think Hansbrough is capable of playing alot better, but why he regressed last year is the big question to me. I've always wondered if the kid has concussion issues.... but who knows. He didn't look the same last year.
NICE post, UNTIL you brought up McBob. NEITHER, Hansbrough or McBob, is worth 3 mil a year. I'll be surprised if either is in the league in 2-3 years. The Lakers saw fairly quickly McBob was more McDud than they expected as he went from starter to little used benchsetter. The Lakers brought in Jordan Hill who couldn't make it with either the Knicks who drafted him or in Houston b/c the Lakers bigs, Murphy and McBob, weren't cutting it. I said when the Lakers brought in Hill that he was McBob's replacement... AND he was. Some need to get over Hansbrough wonderfulness as others need to get over McBob's wonderfulness, b/c neither are as wonderful as some want to believe. "It would have been nice if they had been", but the cold hard facts are they just aren't. It's time to move on from which is the best, or which should have been kept. As far as I'm concerned, neither has nor ever will live up to their hype from HS/College. I wasn't sorry to see McBob go, and I'm looking forward to the day Hansbro isn't a Pacer any longer. Neither is a hot trade commodity, so I expect both to finish out their contracts with their current clubs.