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(BUMPED) Pacers get DJ Augustin for one year

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  • Re: Pacers get DJ Augustin for one year

    Originally posted by boombaby1987 View Post
    Am I the only one that wishes Hansbrough would of been involved in this deal?
    I'm very glad he wasn't.

    I do not buy that matrics can dertmine whether a guy is a good defender. Only way to know is to watch the player defend.

    I would certainly hope that DJ is at least slightly better than Collison defensively
    Last edited by Unclebuck; 07-13-2012, 09:59 AM.

    Comment


    • Re: Pacers get DJ Augustin for one year

      Come on guys, the "I told ya so's" about Hansbrough are silly and starting to get old. He regressed last year, and half of you are jumping on it like you knew that was going to happen, which... you didn't. Admit it. Hansbrough looked pretty damn good a season ago, he led our charge into our first post-season appearance in a few years and he took a lot of momentum into the Bulls 1st-round series where we played better than expected.

      He didn't look near as good last year. Why don't you all focus on "why" that's the case instead of just saying "he sucks, see, I told ya." Nice revisionist history, there, fellas.

      I support the guy, hell, even Vogel rode the Hansbrough Express when he was first promoted, with all the "NOBODY WANTS TO PLAY TYLER HANSBROUGH" stuff.

      So what happened? That's the bigger mystery to me. I think Hansbrough is capable of playing alot better, but why he regressed last year is the big question to me. I've always wondered if the kid has concussion issues.... but who knows. He didn't look the same last year.
      There are two types of quarterbacks in the league: Those whom over time, the league figures out ... and those who figure out the league.

      Comment


      • Re: Pacers get DJ Augustin for one year

        Originally posted by imbtyler View Post
        Yess!

        Hill/DJ/Lance
        PG/Lance/OJ
        DG/Green/OJ
        West/Hans/Plum
        Roy/Ian/Plum

        Even with Plumlee as the third-string backup, that's a good lineup. That means we can still trade Hansbrough (if it's happening) for another asset. What else do we need?
        Green plays both wing spots.

        I see a tighter rotation unless the bench shows a lot of contribution. I don't look for Lance, OJ, Plumlee, or Pendergraph to be looked to for a lot of contribution.

        Comment


        • Re: Pacers get DJ Augustin for one year

          Originally posted by Kid Minneapolis View Post
          Come on guys, the "I told ya so's" about Hansbrough are silly and starting to get old. He regressed last year, and half of you are jumping on it like you knew that was going to happen, which... you didn't. Admit it. Hansbrough looked pretty damn good a season ago, he led our charge into our first post-season appearance in a few years and he took a lot of momentum into the Bulls 1st-round series where we played better than expected.

          He didn't look near as good last year. Why don't you all focus on "why" that's the case instead of just saying "he sucks, see, I told ya." Nice revisionist history, there, fellas.

          I support the guy, hell, even Vogel rode the Hansbrough Express when he was first promoted, with all the "NOBODY WANTS TO PLAY TYLER HANSBROUGH" stuff.

          So what happened? That's the bigger mystery to me. I think Hansbrough is capable of playing alot better, but why he regressed last year is the big question to me. I've always wondered if the kid has concussion issues.... but who knows. He didn't look the same last year.
          Exactly. He is still an important part of the rotation until he plays his way out of it. I am sure the team and he are aware of his shortcomings and are working on them. But this is his year to disprove all the negatives. So, he either proves his worth or has an Austin Croshere career.

          Comment


          • Re: Pacers get DJ Augustin for one year

            Originally posted by Naptown_Seth View Post
            WARNING: MASSIVE TYLER DERAIL (you knew it was coming....ps, I'm excited about DJ as a bench PG who could maybe start with GH as the scoring 6th man star)



            It's like people don't think that other people know about B-ball reference.com or something.

            So I asked for all players 6'9" to 7'0" listed as PF or F-C only (not C-F or C) and said that the player's season had to qualify for the MPG leaderboard (not be a leader but meet the requirements for consideration).
            All single seasons in the last 3 years, so any players that played all 3 years could make the list 3 times

            http://bkref.com/tiny/L6Znu

            I sorted by eFG% (adjusted for 3PM FG%) and at #165 of 166 came Tyler's 11-12 season. The only dude listed below that was Ben Wallace's 11-12 season. Tyler also ranked at 144 with his "good" season of 10-11. 09-10 he didn't qualify due to injury (but his FG% sucked so it's just as well).

            Some guys WAY up the list from there - Casspi, J Thompson, Taj Gibson, Darrell Arthur, Donte Green, Carl Landry, Harrington, H Warrick...it's a long list.


            So what? He's a PF not a scoring specialist. Well just how does he rank in FGA/36 I wonder...
            http://bkref.com/tiny/EAwUh
            53rd in 10-11 with 14.4 per 36
            97th in 11-12 with 12 per 36 (at least it went down a little bit)

            So he shoots horrible but takes them like he's not too shabby. Interesting comparison here with JAMES JOHNSON...you know, super elite backup PF Johnson
            11-12 nearly identical FGA, 7.2 to 6.7 reb (adv Tyler barely), 45% to 40% shooting (adv James obviously).

            Yes, James Johnson in his 11-12 season with Toronto put up basically better total key numbers than Tyler did in 11-12. But Tyler is an elite backup? So now that makes Johnson an elite backup too I guess?


            But he's a rebounding machine (pretend you didn't just see the spoiler in the JJ comparison)
            http://bkref.com/tiny/w4OTT

            Hey, look at that, he comes in at 79th for his 10-11 season with an 8.6 per 36. TIED WITH MCROBERTS own 10-11 season with Indy and his same 8.6. but not quite enough to match Blatche's own 10-11 season of 8.7
            Keep in mind that Josh "cost too much" at 3m, whereas Tyler is a great deal at....3m.

            Considering the identical stat at rebounding, with Josh leading him in FG%, blocks and obviously assists, why in the F did the Pacers agree to keep paying Tyler (rather than trading) while letting Josh walk for the same money? (cough Bird)


            Anyway, Tyler also made the list at 118th with his 11-12 season which is totally awesome. I mean not Jerebko or N Collison or H Warrick or Aminu awesome, but certainly way better than I could do (which I think must be the benchmark we've set for "elite backup PF")*


            But his rim defense, he's a tough dude that intimidates in that classic Dale PF way. It must be that because so far it's either "meh" to "suck" which doesn't seem to match elite, but WTF do I know.
            http://bkref.com/tiny/t3jx8

            Atta boy, tied for 145th...or 158 depending on which end of the ties at 0.4 blocks per 36 you put him at. When Luis Scola blocks as many shots as you do, you might have to consider that a lot of your blocks are either accidents or are being misapplied to you by the stats guys.

            Tyler comes in strong for a 2nd showing tied at 162nd to dead last with his 0.2 blk per 36 in 11-12. (why did I look, it only hurts more to see Josh's 10-11 blocks ranked 47th, his 11-12 season didn't have enough PT to qualify)


            Near worst in shooting, worst in shot blocking, average at best in rebounding....but hey, slightly better than average in chucking up a shot.


            And just when you want to dismiss the stats as misleading, a quick check of his FTA/36 puts him at 12th and 23rd. Funny how the one thing his critics acknowledge he does well is the one way in which he statistically shines.
            http://bkref.com/tiny/5IOLB

            One more "can you believe they paid Tyler 3m but not Josh" stat check...assists
            http://bkref.com/tiny/xvZ4I
            Josh 10-11 ranks 16th, surrounded by Odom and Garnett
            Tyler ranks tied for 144-153 (with Lou of 10-11 PHX) and 159-162.
            Thank god for 3 seasons of Ibaka and 1 year of Kantner to keep Tyler from ranking last again. Too bad for Tyler that Ibaka actually dunks his way to 53% shooting and blocks 15-20 times more shots (no, literally)







            * most of this section should be read in my best Archer sarcastic voice impersonation.

            And I'm sure it just make me a giant d-bag to have this tone, but F anyone that has me up at 2AM researching, linking and verifying all the statistical evidence that any damn Pacers fan should already know. I'm a lot friendlier before I read stuff like "tyler is an elite backup" or "why are people so down on Tyler", as if this numbers are a big secret or surprise.


            NICE post, UNTIL you brought up McBob. NEITHER, Hansbrough or McBob, is worth 3 mil a year. I'll be surprised if either is in the league in 2-3 years. The Lakers saw fairly quickly McBob was more McDud than they expected as he went from starter to little used benchsetter. The Lakers brought in Jordan Hill who couldn't make it with either the Knicks who drafted him or in Houston b/c the Lakers bigs, Murphy and McBob, weren't cutting it. I said when the Lakers brought in Hill that he was McBob's replacement... AND he was. Some need to get over Hansbrough wonderfulness as others need to get over McBob's wonderfulness, b/c neither are as wonderful as some want to believe. "It would have been nice if they had been", but the cold hard facts are they just aren't. It's time to move on from which is the best, or which should have been kept. As far as I'm concerned, neither has nor ever will live up to their hype from HS/College. I wasn't sorry to see McBob go, and I'm looking forward to the day Hansbro isn't a Pacer any longer. Neither is a hot trade commodity, so I expect both to finish out their contracts with their current clubs.

            Comment


            • Re: Pacers get DJ Augustin for one year

              Originally posted by Naptown_Seth View Post
              WARNING: MASSIVE TYLER DERAIL (you knew it was coming....ps, I'm excited about DJ as a bench PG who could maybe start with GH as the scoring 6th man star)



              It's like people don't think that other people know about B-ball reference.com or something.

              So I asked for all players 6'9" to 7'0" listed as PF or F-C only (not C-F or C) and said that the player's season had to qualify for the MPG leaderboard (not be a leader but meet the requirements for consideration).
              All single seasons in the last 3 years, so any players that played all 3 years could make the list 3 times

              http://bkref.com/tiny/L6Znu

              I sorted by eFG% (adjusted for 3PM FG%) and at #165 of 166 came Tyler's 11-12 season. The only dude listed below that was Ben Wallace's 11-12 season. Tyler also ranked at 144 with his "good" season of 10-11. 09-10 he didn't qualify due to injury (but his FG% sucked so it's just as well).

              Some guys WAY up the list from there - Casspi, J Thompson, Taj Gibson, Darrell Arthur, Donte Green, Carl Landry, Harrington, H Warrick...it's a long list.


              So what? He's a PF not a scoring specialist. Well just how does he rank in FGA/36 I wonder...
              http://bkref.com/tiny/EAwUh
              53rd in 10-11 with 14.4 per 36
              97th in 11-12 with 12 per 36 (at least it went down a little bit)

              So he shoots horrible but takes them like he's not too shabby. Interesting comparison here with JAMES JOHNSON...you know, super elite backup PF Johnson
              11-12 nearly identical FGA, 7.2 to 6.7 reb (adv Tyler barely), 45% to 40% shooting (adv James obviously).

              Yes, James Johnson in his 11-12 season with Toronto put up basically better total key numbers than Tyler did in 11-12. But Tyler is an elite backup? So now that makes Johnson an elite backup too I guess?


              But he's a rebounding machine (pretend you didn't just see the spoiler in the JJ comparison)
              http://bkref.com/tiny/w4OTT

              Hey, look at that, he comes in at 79th for his 10-11 season with an 8.6 per 36. TIED WITH MCROBERTS own 10-11 season with Indy and his same 8.6. but not quite enough to match Blatche's own 10-11 season of 8.7
              Keep in mind that Josh "cost too much" at 3m, whereas Tyler is a great deal at....3m.

              Considering the identical stat at rebounding, with Josh leading him in FG%, blocks and obviously assists, why in the F did the Pacers agree to keep paying Tyler (rather than trading) while letting Josh walk for the same money? (cough Bird)


              Anyway, Tyler also made the list at 118th with his 11-12 season which is totally awesome. I mean not Jerebko or N Collison or H Warrick or Aminu awesome, but certainly way better than I could do (which I think must be the benchmark we've set for "elite backup PF")*


              But his rim defense, he's a tough dude that intimidates in that classic Dale PF way. It must be that because so far it's either "meh" to "suck" which doesn't seem to match elite, but WTF do I know.
              http://bkref.com/tiny/t3jx8

              Atta boy, tied for 145th...or 158 depending on which end of the ties at 0.4 blocks per 36 you put him at. When Luis Scola blocks as many shots as you do, you might have to consider that a lot of your blocks are either accidents or are being misapplied to you by the stats guys.

              Tyler comes in strong for a 2nd showing tied at 162nd to dead last with his 0.2 blk per 36 in 11-12. (why did I look, it only hurts more to see Josh's 10-11 blocks ranked 47th, his 11-12 season didn't have enough PT to qualify)


              Near worst in shooting, worst in shot blocking, average at best in rebounding....but hey, slightly better than average in chucking up a shot.


              And just when you want to dismiss the stats as misleading, a quick check of his FTA/36 puts him at 12th and 23rd. Funny how the one thing his critics acknowledge he does well is the one way in which he statistically shines.
              http://bkref.com/tiny/5IOLB

              One more "can you believe they paid Tyler 3m but not Josh" stat check...assists
              http://bkref.com/tiny/xvZ4I
              Josh 10-11 ranks 16th, surrounded by Odom and Garnett
              Tyler ranks tied for 144-153 (with Lou of 10-11 PHX) and 159-162.
              Thank god for 3 seasons of Ibaka and 1 year of Kantner to keep Tyler from ranking last again. Too bad for Tyler that Ibaka actually dunks his way to 53% shooting and blocks 15-20 times more shots (no, literally)







              * most of this section should be read in my best Archer sarcastic voice impersonation.

              And I'm sure it just make me a giant d-bag to have this tone, but F anyone that has me up at 2AM researching, linking and verifying all the statistical evidence that any damn Pacers fan should already know. I'm a lot friendlier before I read stuff like "tyler is an elite backup" or "why are people so down on Tyler", as if this numbers are a big secret or surprise.
              dude, you need to lay off the caffeine at night.

              Comment


              • Re: Pacers get DJ Augustin for one year

                To quote JT, JMOAA

                Tyler is undersized and under athletic. That is a God given problem. He does have some skills and to stay in the league, he needs to add more. Mostly he needs to learn how to use his left hand. The league has 'figured him out' and he needs to develop the counter to that. If he can add to his skill set, he can be a productive player. None of the things he needs to do are impossible except grow taller and jump higher. The rest of the things both offensively and defensively can be learned. It seems hating on Tyler as never being able to get better is just as silly as saying he is really good. The truth as always is somewhere in the middle.

                Comment


                • Re: Pacers get DJ Augustin for one year

                  Originally posted by Justin Tyme View Post
                  NICE post, UNTIL you brought up McBob. NEITHER, Hansbrough or McBob, is worth 3 mil a year. I'll be surprised if either is in the league in 2-3 years. The Lakers saw fairly quickly McBob was more McDud than they expected as he went from starter to little used benchsetter. The Lakers brought in Jordan Hill who couldn't make it with either the Knicks who drafted him or in Houston b/c the Lakers bigs, Murphy and McBob, weren't cutting it. I said when the Lakers brought in Hill that he was McBob's replacement... AND he was. Some need to get over Hansbrough wonderfulness as others need to get over McBob's wonderfulness, b/c neither are as wonderful as some want to believe. "It would have been nice if they had been", but the cold hard facts are they just aren't. It's time to move on from which is the best, or which should have been kept. As far as I'm concerned, neither has nor ever will live up to their hype from HS/College. I wasn't sorry to see McBob go, and I'm looking forward to the day Hansbro isn't a Pacer any longer. Neither is a hot trade commodity, so I expect both to finish out their contracts with their current clubs.
                  Tell me he ain't a McRoberts guy! This explains some things.

                  McRoberts is a contract year guy. He will suddenly look like a good deal the last half year of his current contract. I dont' know what Hans is. But if he doesn't drastically improve his FG% and rebounding, he will be in the D league when his contract comes up.

                  Comment


                  • Re: Pacers get DJ Augustin for one year

                    Originally posted by WhoLovesYaBaby? View Post
                    Tell me he ain't a McRoberts guy! This explains some things. . .
                    yes, Seth is a big McRoberts guy.

                    Comment


                    • Re: Pacers get DJ Augustin for one year

                      John Hollinger ‏@johnhollinger
                      One other distinction on Collison vs. Augustin: If Augustin has good year, he's gone; no Bird Rights. Collison was RFA.
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                      I still like the move, but I honestly didn't think about that.

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                      • Re: Pacers get DJ Augustin for one year

                        McRoberts?

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                        • Re: Pacers get DJ Augustin for one year

                          Originally posted by BrownBearCoffee View Post
                          John Hollinger ‏@johnhollinger
                          One other distinction on Collison vs. Augustin: If Augustin has good year, he's gone; no Bird Rights. Collison was RFA.
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                          I still like the move, but I honestly didn't think about that.
                          We weren't gonna match an offer for Collison if he got one anyways.

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                          • Re: Pacers get DJ Augustin for one year

                            Originally posted by Ace E.Anderson View Post
                            We weren't gonna match an offer for Collison if he got one anyways.
                            No, I understand that. I'm saying that if we would happen to extend West this year and lose our cap again, and Augustin has a great year after moving to a winning team, we would probably have to make some tough decisions to keep him.

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                            • Re: Pacers get DJ Augustin for one year

                              Originally posted by A.B.Hollywood View Post
                              He starts over Hill if not before the season starts by the midway point.

                              You'll see.
                              I don't think so because Hill is locked into a 5 year contract for big money. The Pacers are not going to let him backup for the money he's going to make.

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                              • Re: Pacers get DJ Augustin for one year

                                Originally posted by Ace E.Anderson View Post
                                We weren't gonna match an offer for Collison if he got one anyways.
                                Could have did a sign and trade though, just saying...
                                Why so SERIOUS

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